Accusing Israel of Genocide is an Antisemitic Trope

[Lisa558]

Lol. Why do you hate Muslims and Arabs? Why do you support genocide? Why do you support an apartheid regime that oppresses Palestinians? Why is it okay for Israelis to steal land of indigenous peoples?

Those are all LIES, formed by your Jew-hating brain.

 

[gipper]

If it doesn't matter then you should have no problem answering me, right?

Okay. Why don’t you post these multiple definitions of Zionism, and we’ll pick one to discuss.

 

[gipper]

Those are all LIES, formed by your Jew-hating brain.

As I expected.

 

[rosends]

Okay. Why don’t you post these multiple definitions of Zionism, and we’ll pick one to discuss.

so you don't know which one you mean. OK, I'm glad I asked.

start by looking through the types listed here. This isn't all of them but is a good selection of flavors of modern political Zionism which is one subgroup.

Or do you just mean the catchall general statement that it is a "multifaceted movement rooted in the right to self-determination (the right of a nation to form its statehood, allegiances, and government) and statehood for the Jewish people in the land of Israel, their historic homeland.
The underlining goal of Zionism as a nationalist movement is to establish and support a homeland of the Jewish people. The movement seeks to provide a place where Jewish people can live safely, protected from antisemitism and discrimination. Additionally, the movement looks to create a homeland where the Jewish religion and culture can grow."

Just let me know when you decide what you mean.

 

[Grau]

Hey just 35% of the world's Jews were exterminated by the Nazis and many were out of Hitler's reach too, so how is that "genocide"?

Good question.
I wonder how could the Holocaust be classified as a "genocide" when there were no written orders from Hitler calling for the destruction of Europe's Jews (*) and about 150,000 Jews served in Hitler's military with 25 Jews rising to the rank of General.(1)

Additionally, there were even high ranking Jews in Hitler's National Socialist (Nazi) Party.(2)

Finally, even Jewish sources indicate that the world's Jewish population actually grew over the Holocaust years. (3)

Apologists for the Gaza genocide insist that the Gaza genocide is not really a genocide because the IDFers still haven't managed to kill all of Gaza's residents.
Using the same "logic", the Holocaust can't have been a genocide because there were more Jews in the world after the Holocaust.

Thanks and keep up the good work,


(*). “To the present day a written order by Hitler regarding the destruction of the European Jewish community has not been found, and, in all probability, this order was never given.”

- Walter Laqueur, Was niemand wissen wollte: Die Unterdruckung der Nachrichten uber Hitlers Endlösung (What Nobody Wanted to Know: The Suppression of News About Hitler’s “Final Solution”), (Berlin-Vienna, 1981), p.190



(1). "Historian claims Hitler personally approved officers of Jewish descent to fight for Nazis"

"ADOLF HITLER personally allowed at least 77 army officers of Jewish descent, including 25 generals, to fight for the Nazi cause…"

Historian claims Hitler personally approved officers of Jewish descent to fight for Nazis

ADOLF HITLER personally allowed at least 77 army officers of Jewish descent, including 25 generals, to fight for the Nazi cause…

www.irishtimes.com

EXCERPT ""In many cases, Hitler decided personally what should be done with soldiers of Jewish descent - and he made different decisions from case to case."

The most senior general of Jewish origin was Field Marshall Erhard Milch, who rose to be general inspector of the Luftwaffe and was convicted of war crimes after 1945." CONTINUED



(2). “List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

EXCERPT “Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent. “ CONTINUED



(3). "Was there Really a Holocaust?"

WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST

EXCERPT "The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish population was 15,688,259. The Almanac's figures were supplied by the American Jewish Committee. Next the Jewish-owned New York Times of February 22, 1948 stated the world Jewish population for that year amounted "to 15,600,000 to 18,700,000 in addition to the 600,000 to 700,000 living in Palestine." How could the Jewish population increase so rapidly over the war years if they had lost 6,000,000 people?"CONTINUED

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

actually, no, they don't. They have crafted advisory opinions that demand that Israel should prevent genocide (page 23, paragraph 78). Prevent. You know what that means, right?

The ICC has evidence that isn't yet public.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Again. Why is this so very hard for some people to understand? Success or failure does not equal intent. Intent is intent.

You aren't even bothering to demonstrate intent, through word and deed. (Because if you did, it would be apparent to everyone, including you, that there is no intent by Israel to destroy an entire group based on their race, ethnicity, nationality, or religion.)

Lisa558 has said repeatedly that "genocide can't be happening because 99.5% of the population are still alive" so which Zionist is correct here? numbers do matter or numbers don't matter?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Again. Why is this so very hard for some people to understand? Success or failure does not equal intent. Intent is intent.

You aren't even bothering to demonstrate intent, through word and deed. (Because if you did, it would be apparent to everyone, including you, that there is no intent by Israel to destroy an entire group based on their race, ethnicity, nationality, or religion.)

I'm not the slightest bit interested in obtaining your agreement or approval, only in challenging Zionist narratives.

 

[rosends]

The ICC has evidence that isn't yet public.

of course it does...

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Good question.
I wonder how could the Holocaust be classified as a "genocide" when there were no written orders from Hitler calling for the destruction of Europe's Jews (*) and about 150,000 Jews served in Hitler's military with 25 Jews rising to the rank of General.(1)

Additionally, there were even high ranking Jews in Hitler's National Socialist (Nazi) Party.(2)

Finally, even Jewish sources indicate that the world's Jewish population actually grew over the Holocaust years. (3)

Apologists for the Gaza genocide insist that the Gaza genocide is not really a genocide because the IDFers still haven't managed to kill all of Gaza's residents.
Using the same "logic", the Holocaust can't have been a genocide because there were more Jews in the world after the Holocaust.

Thanks and keep up the good work,


(*). “To the present day a written order by Hitler regarding the destruction of the European Jewish community has not been found, and, in all probability, this order was never given.”

- Walter Laqueur, Was niemand wissen wollte: Die Unterdruckung der Nachrichten uber Hitlers Endlösung (What Nobody Wanted to Know: The Suppression of News About Hitler’s “Final Solution”), (Berlin-Vienna, 1981), p.190



(1). "Historian claims Hitler personally approved officers of Jewish descent to fight for Nazis"

"ADOLF HITLER personally allowed at least 77 army officers of Jewish descent, including 25 generals, to fight for the Nazi cause…"

Historian claims Hitler personally approved officers of Jewish descent to fight for Nazis

ADOLF HITLER personally allowed at least 77 army officers of Jewish descent, including 25 generals, to fight for the Nazi cause…

www.irishtimes.com

EXCERPT ""In many cases, Hitler decided personally what should be done with soldiers of Jewish descent - and he made different decisions from case to case."

The most senior general of Jewish origin was Field Marshall Erhard Milch, who rose to be general inspector of the Luftwaffe and was convicted of war crimes after 1945." CONTINUED



(2). “List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

EXCERPT “Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent. “ CONTINUED



(3). "Was there Really a Holocaust?"

WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST

EXCERPT "The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish population was 15,688,259. The Almanac's figures were supplied by the American Jewish Committee. Next the Jewish-owned New York Times of February 22, 1948 stated the world Jewish population for that year amounted "to 15,600,000 to 18,700,000 in addition to the 600,000 to 700,000 living in Palestine." How could the Jewish population increase so rapidly over the war years if they had lost 6,000,000 people?"CONTINUED

That was an interesting post.

As Norman Finkelstein has written (extensively) the Holocaust has been weaponized and used to justify many Israeli actions. It's important that we be objective and frank about any genocide claims and that includes the Nazis.

But we must be careful, just as critiquing the Zionist regime gets labelled "antisemitic" questioning, even just discussing, the Holocaust often gets met with cries of "holocaust denier!".

Zionist want us to look at what they want us to look at, but don't dare question anything that say, they really don't like that.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

of course it does...

I'm glad you agree. Here's a BBC radio interview with Karim Khan from 7th Sep - I hand transcribed and highlighted the relevant statement in red for you:

At 36:16

What bout the evidence though?, because the evidence they say, you should submit regardless of their motives, and their animus towards you, which is clear, They say "well you said total siege, there wasn't a total siege. You said the water was cut off but in fact the water was not entirely cut off and indeed Israeli supplies of water was only a fraction - 10% - of fresh water used in Gaza. You say there's a danger of starvation as the UN did, but they say "lots of food has been supplied, not as much as people might like - but this is all evidence that should be submitted too.

You see Nick, I have one advantage at least, hopefully even they will concede and that is I've seen the evidence they haven't, the application is not public, it is confidential, it is filed to the chamber; so they are guessing what evidence has been submitted.

So as he says you have not seen the evidence, you are guessing.

Hear what he has to say, in his own words, including why he felt arrest warrants are appropriate. As you're not a lawyer with experience in trying war crimes cases, you'll learn something about all this. Hear as he talks about the many people who privately approached him in order to influence him even threats to the court including the US "if you target Israel we will target you" and other threatening rhetoric.

He talks of the hypocrisy, where those who congratulated him on arrest warrants for Putin now condemn him for doing the same thing, applying the same laws in the same way to Netanyahu.

Hear him talk about Netanyahu accusing him of being "one of the great antisemites of our time" how allegiance to one's country cannot be allowed to override the law.

 

[Lisa558]

Lisa558 has said repeatedly that "genocide can't be happening because 99.5% of the population are still alive" so which Zionist is correct here? numbers do matter or numbers don't matter?

The point is that genocide requires INTENT….and 99.5% still remaining alive proves there’s no intent. We both know if Israel intended a genocide, they would have all been dead by the middle of October 2023.

That FACT does not fit your antidemitic propaganda, though.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

How does one do that? Practically speaking.

Duh.

Use a compass, it'll get you there.

 

[Lisa558]

Israel is now starting their Lebanon genocide.

Reported.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

The point is that genocide requires INTENT….and 99.5% still remaining alive proves there’s no intent. We both know if Israel intended a genocide, they would have all been dead by the middle of October 2023.

That FACT does not fit your antidemitic propaganda, though.

As I showed rosends above the ICC evidence is not yet public, you have no idea what evidence the court ha seen, you are just guessing.

This is what Karim Khan said:

You see Nick, I have one advantage at least, hopefully even they will concede and that is I've seen the evidence they haven't, the application is not public, it is confidential, it is filed to the chamber; so they are guessing what evidence has been submitted.

If you don't believe me go to the audio and listen to the man speak in his own words, just FFWD to 36:16

So how can you insist there's no evidence when the court states it has evidence but it's not public yet?

 

[Billo_Really]

Reported.

Over 500 dead in the last few days.

 

[Lisa558]

As I showed above the ICC evidence is not yet public, you have no idea what evidence the court ha seen, you are just guessing.

This is what Karim Khan said:

The ICC is an anti-Israel organization that the U.S. doesn’t recognize. Quoting from your anti-Israel propaganda sources doesn’t prove anything other than your own anti-Jew bias.

 

[Lisa558]

Over 500 dead in the last few days.

A-hole. Hezbellah has been attacking Israel. Are the Jew boys and girls just supposed to take it while the Islamic terrorists launch their attacks?

 

[Billo_Really]

Over 45,000 dead in Gaza.

Now 500 dead in Lebanon.

All Israel does is kill!

 

[Billo_Really]

The ICC is an anti-Israel organization that the U.S. doesn’t recognize. Quoting from your anti-Israel propaganda sources doesn’t prove anything other than your own anti-Jew bias.

Ad hominem's are not valid rebuttals.