Accusing Israel of Genocide is an Antisemitic Trope

[Shusha]

That depends on how one defines "rights" and "homeland" the answer depends on these factors. Israel today denies rights to Arabs on a scale it does not do for Jews.

This is why it is regularly described as an apartheid state by various organizations.

You have it backwards. The "apartheid" libel arises because of Israel's compliance with treaties and pressure from the international community to preserve the two-state solution.

Let's see if we can commonly define the terms, then.

"Right to self-determination": The customary law which claims that a collective of peoples with a recognizable self-identity are entitled to decide their own future, political status, and independence.

"Homeland": The traditional and historic territory within which the collective peoples' ethnic, cultural, or national identity originates.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

You have it backwards. The "apartheid" libel arises because of Israel's compliance with treaties and pressure from the international community to preserve the two-state solution.

Let's see if we can commonly define the terms, then.

"Right to self-determination": The customary law which claims that a collective of peoples with a recognizable self-identity are entitled to decide their own future, political status, and independence.

"Homeland": The traditional and historic territory within which the collective peoples' ethnic, cultural, or national identity originates.

This is a large deviation from the thread's stated topic, I won't be indulging you.

 

[gipper]

I can not possibly conceive of a military necessity at that scale.

Lol. Sure you can. Do you not know nearly every building in Gaza is destroyed or damaged?

Maybe you could the question.

 

[Shusha]

Well they did ethnically cleanse 750,000 people once, so they are not afraid to hurt huge numbers of people, something they learned from the Nazis who served as a role model for some early Zionist groups - and before you ask, yes I do have the evidence for that claim, as you know I always back up my claims especially those that I know the Zionist apologists will try to deny.

Ugh. I wish you would knock off with the Nazi comparisons at every post. It is boring.

But as to the point, ~16,000 Jews and Arabs were killed in the Israel War of Independence, which was an existential threat to Israel, committed against her by Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon. Which strongly supports my conjecture that military necessity would be unlikely at the scale of 1 million Palestinians. A world war maybe?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Lol. Sure you can. Do you not know nearly every building in Gaza is destroyed or damaged?

Maybe you could the question.

Even if a million were killed in Gaza they'd just deny the numbers, accuse the UN and MSF and others of lying, fabricating numbers, getting their numbers from Hamas and the usual collection of deceitful lies.

 

[Shusha]

This is a large deviation from the thread's stated topic, I won't be indulging you.

Actually, double standards as antisemitism is well within the topic. What? Afraid to admit that you hold double standards for Israel?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Ugh. I wish you would knock off with the Nazi comparisons at every post. It is boring.

But as to the point, ~16,000 Jews and Arabs were killed in the Israel War of Independence, which was an existential threat to Israel, committed against her by Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon. Which strongly supports my conjecture that military necessity would be unlikely at the scale of 1 million Palestinians. A world war maybe?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Actually, double standards as antisemitism is well within the topic. What? Afraid to admit that you hold double standards for Israel?

I've explained to you before why Israel is regarded as apartheid, how laws are applied inequitably, how institutional racism is deeply embedded in Israeli society and even popular culture. I won't be restating all of that in this thread.

 

[gipper]

I've explained to you before why Israel is regarded as apartheid, how laws are applied inequitably, how institutional racism is deeply embedded in Israeli society and even popular culture. I won't be restating all of that in this thread.

Funny how the supporters of Israel ignore inconvenient facts about the country they love.

Willful ignorance.

 

[Shusha]

Lol. Sure you can. Do you not know nearly every building in Gaza is destroyed or damaged?

Maybe you could the question.

I've seen various different analyses of the damage in Gaza. Does a broken window count as "destroyed or damaged"? It sure is a large moving of the goal posts, though, to go from 1 million Palestinians killed to damage to infrastructure.

Let me try another way to answer your 1 million question: Is there a military necessity for death at that scale? If there is such a military necessity (and again I can not possibly conceive of one), and it fell within confines of international law to address that military necessity (and again I can not conceive of one), then the number is irrelevant.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Funny how the supporters of Israel ignore inconvenient facts about the country they love.

Willful ignorance.

Its astonishing, truly astonishing. I've argued with South Africans before and the degree to which they believe their false narratives is mind boggling. No amount of evidence can sway them, they refuse to admit wrongdoing, ever negative thing one sees about the regime is always just apparent, not real, a misinterpretation and the white land owners were the real victims.

The Zionists are no different and certainly no better, entitlement Jew supremacism just as other regimes have had their on race supremacism, the sooner these colonialist ideologies are wiped off the map the better for all of us.

 

[Shusha]

I've explained to you before why Israel is regarded as apartheid, how laws are applied inequitably, how institutional racism is deeply embedded in Israeli society and even popular culture. I won't be restating all of that in this thread.

And I have explained to you why the "apartheid" libel is legally untenable. No need to go over that again. The subject on the table is the double standard of one peoples having a right to self-determination, while the other peoples does not. That is within the subject of this thread.

Again, do you believe in the equal application of that standard, or do you hold double standards?

 

[Shusha]

Funny how the supporters of Israel ignore inconvenient facts about the country they love.

Willful ignorance.

I don't ignore false accusations. I have addressed this fully in other threads. Of course, no one actually addresses the full discussion, but only continue to throw out repetitive soundbytes as though avoiding the actual legal principles and treaties and just repeating the same accusation over and over will turn the falsehood into truth.

 

[rosends]

I'm glad you agree. Here's a BBC radio interview with Karim Khan from 7th Sep - I hand transcribed and highlighted the relevant statement in red for you:

At 36:16



So as he says you have not seen the evidence, you are guessing.

Hear what he has to say, in his own words, including why he felt arrest warrants are appropriate. As you're not a lawyer with experience in trying war crimes cases, you'll learn something about all this. Hear as he talks about the many people who privately approached him in order to influence him even threats to the court including the US "if you target Israel we will target you" and other threatening rhetoric.

He talks of the hypocrisy, where those who congratulated him on arrest warrants for Putin now condemn him for doing the same thing, applying the same laws in the same way to Netanyahu.

Hear him talk about Netanyahu accusing him of being "one of the great antisemites of our time" how allegiance to one's country cannot be allowed to override the law.


View attachment 1017756

so the prosecutor has seen the evidence but the court said only to PREVENT genocide. So is he ignoring what he has seen? Withholding it from the court? Have YOU seen the evidence? Does this guy make it a practice of not revealing relevant information? Does he hide stuff AFTER the court issued its recommendation? That's not very useful.

Heckuva resume builder, that. "Withheld information from the court." Brilliant.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

And I have explained to you why the "apartheid" libel is legally untenable. No need to go over that again. The subject on the table is the double standard of one peoples having a right to self-determination, while the other peoples does not. That is within the subject of this thread.

Again, do you believe in the equal application of that standard, or do you hold double standards?

The topic of this thread is: Accusing Israel of Genocide is an Antisemitic Trope

Which, incidentally, I think is settled now, it is legitimate to accuse Israel of genocide given the positions of the ICC and ICJ.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

so the prosecutor has seen the evidence but the court said only to PREVENT genocide. So is he ignoring what he has seen? Withholding it from the court? Have YOU seen the evidence? Does this guy make it a practice of not revealing relevant information?

You didn't listen did you...

Heckuva resume builder, that. "Withheld information from the court." Brilliant.

Kahn said 35:54

"we have a duty to investigate incriminating and exonerating evidence equally"

You seem unfamiliar with the courts procedures, the evidence is not public as the arrest warrants are still pending. I have no idea what you are rambling on about here.

 

[rosends]

You didn't listen did you...

Kahn said 35:54

"we have a duty to investigate incriminating and exonerating evidence equally"

You seem unfamiliar with the courts procedures, the evidence is not public as the arrest warrants are still pending. I have no idea what you are rambling on about here.

You seem unfamiliar with what we are discussing. Start with Roman numeral VI

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-00-en.pdf

But hey, you can keep jumping around to whatever works best for you and ignore the relevant stuff.

 

[Shusha]

The topic of this thread is: Accusing Israel of Genocide is an Antisemitic Trope

Understood as: I don't want to answer the question for fear it will reveal my double standards.

Which, incidentally, I think is settled now, it is legitimate to accuse Israel of genocide given the positions of the ICC and ICJ.

You have misrepresented the positions of both the ICC and the ICJ. And no one has yet even presented arguments for intent, let alone proven intent.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

You seem unfamiliar with what we are discussing. Start with Roman numeral VI

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-00-en.pdf

But hey, you can keep jumping around to whatever works best for you and ignore the relevant stuff.

You disputed that the court has evidence, you said that in this post and I corrected that misunderstanding by presenting you with Kahn himself, talking about evidence and that you nor anyone else, has not seen the evidence the court has because it isn't public.

This is therefore a refutation of your claim "actually, no, they don't".

That's what we were talking about, don't you remember?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Understood as: I don't want to answer the question for fear it will reveal my double standards.

You have misrepresented the positions of both the ICC and the ICJ. And no one has yet even presented arguments for intent, let alone proven intent.

Presented to whom?

It's been presented to those in the court who are tasked with approving the request for arrest warrants, but that evidence is not yet public because the warrants are not yet approved. This is very simple, why are you struggling?