Afghanistan War Doesn't Have To Be A War America Lost!

JimofPennsylvan

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Jun 6, 2007
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Ever since the White House announced the withdrawal of U.S. military forces from Afghanistan by September of this year the reality on the ground in Afghanistan is that the Afghanistan Army has been losing battle after battle against the Taliban, the Taliban have taken control of numerous districts in the country. The bottom line is that the Afghanistan Army is not strong enough and effective enough as a fighting force to take on the Taliban across the country of Afghanistan; but, the Afghanistan Army is strong and effective enough to defend major cities throughout Afghanistan and the regions surrounding these cities against Taliban fighting forces "if" the Afghanistan Army has a superpower country's air power behind it because the airpower can neutralize any significant Taliban attacking force threatening the Afghanistan army in these regions. The Taliban victories during the last two months place the "writing on the wall", that being, if America and its allies completely withdraw military support from the Afghanistan government, that government and the country of Afghanistan will completely fall to the Taliban. The Taliban are too capable as an insurgent force they know how to kill, terrorize and topple a government; once America leaves it will only be a matter of "when" not "if" the Afghanistan government will fall to the Taliban.

If the Taliban regain control of Afghanistan, all the blood and treasure that America and its many wonderful allies spent during the past twenty years trying to make Afghanistan a good country that recognizes and respects human rights will all have been for naught, a big waste! Eighteen hundred U.S. soldiers lost their lives fighting this Afghanistan War, these fallen soldiers' families have had to endure the indescribable loss of not having their loved one with them, twenty-thousand soldiers were wounded--in-action in this War many having lost limbs and other vital aspects of their health; now the U.S. government is taking steps that will make this sacrifice meaningless, just one big waste! This is wrong the American government should not do this to these families, it should not be so disrespectful about what these families gave to this country!

There is another option for America here besides continuing to have U.S. soldiers on the ground fighting in Afghanistan; America could leave its air power in Afghanistan. If America could leave some fixed wing aircraft and some Apache helicopters there then these resources could be used to aid and back-up Afghanistan armed forces defending the country's major cities and if these cities can be held then the Afghanistan people will still have a country that respects human rights and supports human freedom, albeit a smaller country. This buys the Afghanistan government time and time possibly could change their situation making it more favorable to the Afghanistan people and human rights. Time could bring the Pakistani government and its people recognizing and becoming intolerable of the evil Taliban leadership having their home base in the mountains of Pakistan and shut this leadership down! Time could bring the world and especially the Islamic world become more unaccepting and intolerable of the version of an Islamic religion that is counter to and violates human rights which the Taliban espouses. Time could bring ordinary Afghanistan citizens getting really tired and fed-up with the Middle Age society that the Taliban offer when a much better twenty-first century life could be in their reach and Afghanistan could see grass root rebellions against the Taliban where local Afghanis just rise up and kill the local Taliban leadership and their armed supporters!

There is still time for the America government not to abandon the Afghanistan people to the Taliban there is still time for the American government not to throw away two decades of extraordinarily virtuous effort by the free world to help the people of Afghanistan acquire their freedom and build a good country! The American government need only leave its air power in Afghanistan, it need only make this commitment for two years with the proviso that in two years it will make an assessment to determine if it still makes sense to leave these resources in the country!
 
Ever since the White House announced the withdrawal of U.S. military forces from Afghanistan by September of this year the reality on the ground in Afghanistan is that the Afghanistan Army has been losing battle after battle against the Taliban, the Taliban have taken control of numerous districts in the country. The bottom line is that the Afghanistan Army is not strong enough and effective enough as a fighting force to take on the Taliban across the country of Afghanistan; but, the Afghanistan Army is strong and effective enough to defend major cities throughout Afghanistan and the regions surrounding these cities against Taliban fighting forces "if" the Afghanistan Army has a superpower country's air power behind it because the airpower can neutralize any significant Taliban attacking force threatening the Afghanistan army in these regions. The Taliban victories during the last two months place the "writing on the wall", that being, if America and its allies completely withdraw military support from the Afghanistan government, that government and the country of Afghanistan will completely fall to the Taliban. The Taliban are too capable as an insurgent force they know how to kill, terrorize and topple a government; once America leaves it will only be a matter of "when" not "if" the Afghanistan government will fall to the Taliban.

If the Taliban regain control of Afghanistan, all the blood and treasure that America and its many wonderful allies spent during the past twenty years trying to make Afghanistan a good country that recognizes and respects human rights will all have been for naught, a big waste! Eighteen hundred U.S. soldiers lost their lives fighting this Afghanistan War, these fallen soldiers' families have had to endure the indescribable loss of not having their loved one with them, twenty-thousand soldiers were wounded--in-action in this War many having lost limbs and other vital aspects of their health; now the U.S. government is taking steps that will make this sacrifice meaningless, just one big waste! This is wrong the American government should not do this to these families, it should not be so disrespectful about what these families gave to this country!

There is another option for America here besides continuing to have U.S. soldiers on the ground fighting in Afghanistan; America could leave its air power in Afghanistan. If America could leave some fixed wing aircraft and some Apache helicopters there then these resources could be used to aid and back-up Afghanistan armed forces defending the country's major cities and if these cities can be held then the Afghanistan people will still have a country that respects human rights and supports human freedom, albeit a smaller country. This buys the Afghanistan government time and time possibly could change their situation making it more favorable to the Afghanistan people and human rights. Time could bring the Pakistani government and its people recognizing and becoming intolerable of the evil Taliban leadership having their home base in the mountains of Pakistan and shut this leadership down! Time could bring the world and especially the Islamic world become more unaccepting and intolerable of the version of an Islamic religion that is counter to and violates human rights which the Taliban espouses. Time could bring ordinary Afghanistan citizens getting really tired and fed-up with the Middle Age society that the Taliban offer when a much better twenty-first century life could be in their reach and Afghanistan could see grass root rebellions against the Taliban where local Afghanis just rise up and kill the local Taliban leadership and their armed supporters!

There is still time for the America government not to abandon the Afghanistan people to the Taliban there is still time for the American government not to throw away two decades of extraordinarily virtuous effort by the free world to help the people of Afghanistan acquire their freedom and build a good country! The American government need only leave its air power in Afghanistan, it need only make this commitment for two years with the proviso that in two years it will make an assessment to determine if it still makes sense to leave these resources in the country!
We were spending a fortune for no reason.
 
There is nothing to win. There never was.

Oh there must be something no one wants to talk about?

SFPOP.jpg


Or other goodies from the Kush Mountains.
 
There is nothing to win. There never was.

Oh there must be something no one wants to talk about?

View attachment 504432

Or other goodies from the Kush Mountains.
Makes me want to run nakeed through the fields so they can scrape the barnacle off my dingy. The CIA is gonna miss their naked boys and their control of heroin...Now what are the streets of the US gonna look like with a shortage of heroin?
 
Bolton said in his book, that Trump said everything which Macron touches turns to shit.
In reality everything USA touched turned to shit the last 30 years or so.
Pitty for the countries the USA bombed, but it came at a high cost.
We're finally on the verge of a true multi-polar world and China becoming top-dog.
You wanted it that way, who forced you to drop trillions $ worth of bombs in the desert whilst China kept quiet and invested even more trillions into its infrastructure and industry ?
Maybe USA didn't behave different than past Superpowers, but we're in the age of internet, and everything USA did is documented and here to stay.
I don't think the USA is liked in most parts of the world.
 
Invading and bombing an entire country looking for one man was idiotic.
And to add insult to injury, the guy wasn't even there. ... :cuckoo:

Without Saudi money and USA train+equip program for Saudi-financed "Afghan freedom fighters" during Soviet times there would never be any kind of thing like 9/11.
What were nationalities of 9/11 attackers? Right !
I didn't particularily like Trump, but what he was spot on was his decription about the swamp. As long as Saudi, Jewish, UAE money floats around in Congress + Washington tink-tanks the USA will always act counter to its national interests.
Which foreign policy of the USA in the last 30 years actually furthered USA might ?
In Bill Clinton, Bush senior times USA could do anything it wanted in Asia. Every country had to subdue, USA was top-dog. Not because Clinton was such a fly-guy, but US power was unparlelled.
Today Russia, Iran, China and others are rampant all over the place, and USA has been reduced to a guardian of tiny East-Syrian oil ressources.
When I grew up I was bombarded with "American dream" from dishwasher to millionaire stories, Americans on the moon, Americans standing for freedom. I believed it in it because it was true.
Today no one believes this shit anymore because Americans changed for the worse: BLM, LGBT, American people storming Capitol Hill, fag promoting global agenda, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, Powell mobile yellow cake trucks, Saddam throwing Kuwaiti babies on the floor fake-stories etc etc etc.
How fast USA declined morally, economically and geopolitical is unbelievable. If I were American and your father from the previous generation I'd slap you in your face for your incompetence.
 
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Something tells me that the years of the American military operation will be considered as years of stability in the region. After the end of operation, Taliban will be taking ground and it may well be that not only in Afghanistan. Surrounding countries, in the first turn Turkmenistan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Let Russia deal with it and be as deep in it as possible.
 
Ever since the White House announced the withdrawal of U.S. military forces from Afghanistan by September of this year the reality on the ground in Afghanistan is that the Afghanistan Army has been losing battle after battle against the Taliban, the Taliban have taken control of numerous districts in the country. The bottom line is that the Afghanistan Army is not strong enough and effective enough as a fighting force to take on the Taliban across the country of Afghanistan; but, the Afghanistan Army is strong and effective enough to defend major cities throughout Afghanistan and the regions surrounding these cities against Taliban fighting forces "if" the Afghanistan Army has a superpower country's air power behind it because the airpower can neutralize any significant Taliban attacking force threatening the Afghanistan army in these regions. The Taliban victories during the last two months place the "writing on the wall", that being, if America and its allies completely withdraw military support from the Afghanistan government, that government and the country of Afghanistan will completely fall to the Taliban. The Taliban are too capable as an insurgent force they know how to kill, terrorize and topple a government; once America leaves it will only be a matter of "when" not "if" the Afghanistan government will fall to the Taliban.

If the Taliban regain control of Afghanistan, all the blood and treasure that America and its many wonderful allies spent during the past twenty years trying to make Afghanistan a good country that recognizes and respects human rights will all have been for naught, a big waste! Eighteen hundred U.S. soldiers lost their lives fighting this Afghanistan War, these fallen soldiers' families have had to endure the indescribable loss of not having their loved one with them, twenty-thousand soldiers were wounded--in-action in this War many having lost limbs and other vital aspects of their health; now the U.S. government is taking steps that will make this sacrifice meaningless, just one big waste! This is wrong the American government should not do this to these families, it should not be so disrespectful about what these families gave to this country!

There is another option for America here besides continuing to have U.S. soldiers on the ground fighting in Afghanistan; America could leave its air power in Afghanistan. If America could leave some fixed wing aircraft and some Apache helicopters there then these resources could be used to aid and back-up Afghanistan armed forces defending the country's major cities and if these cities can be held then the Afghanistan people will still have a country that respects human rights and supports human freedom, albeit a smaller country. This buys the Afghanistan government time and time possibly could change their situation making it more favorable to the Afghanistan people and human rights. Time could bring the Pakistani government and its people recognizing and becoming intolerable of the evil Taliban leadership having their home base in the mountains of Pakistan and shut this leadership down! Time could bring the world and especially the Islamic world become more unaccepting and intolerable of the version of an Islamic religion that is counter to and violates human rights which the Taliban espouses. Time could bring ordinary Afghanistan citizens getting really tired and fed-up with the Middle Age society that the Taliban offer when a much better twenty-first century life could be in their reach and Afghanistan could see grass root rebellions against the Taliban where local Afghanis just rise up and kill the local Taliban leadership and their armed supporters!

There is still time for the America government not to abandon the Afghanistan people to the Taliban there is still time for the American government not to throw away two decades of extraordinarily virtuous effort by the free world to help the people of Afghanistan acquire their freedom and build a good country! The American government need only leave its air power in Afghanistan, it need only make this commitment for two years with the proviso that in two years it will make an assessment to determine if it still makes sense to leave these resources in the country!

Afghanistan had a very high literacy rate as well as cafes and cinema up until the Afghan Communists took over the monarchy in 1974.. Then the Soviets came in. Then Bush came in to try and save ENRON when the Taliban (war orphans) wouldn't give them a gas pipeline to Dabhol.

You can't beat mountain people. Time to come home.
 
"The authorities of the Afghan Bagram were outraged by the sudden departure of the Americans from the largest air base in Afghanistan. Bagram was captured by looters for several hours. Not warned by the Americans, the Afghan authorities restored order at the base, ousting the robbers"
 
Ever since the White House announced the withdrawal of U.S. military forces from Afghanistan by September of this year the reality on the ground in Afghanistan is that the Afghanistan Army has been losing battle after battle against the Taliban, the Taliban have taken control of numerous districts in the country. The bottom line is that the Afghanistan Army is not strong enough and effective enough as a fighting force to take on the Taliban across the country of Afghanistan; but, the Afghanistan Army is strong and effective enough to defend major cities throughout Afghanistan and the regions surrounding these cities against Taliban fighting forces "if" the Afghanistan Army has a superpower country's air power behind it because the airpower can neutralize any significant Taliban attacking force threatening the Afghanistan army in these regions. The Taliban victories during the last two months place the "writing on the wall", that being, if America and its allies completely withdraw military support from the Afghanistan government, that government and the country of Afghanistan will completely fall to the Taliban. The Taliban are too capable as an insurgent force they know how to kill, terrorize and topple a government; once America leaves it will only be a matter of "when" not "if" the Afghanistan government will fall to the Taliban.

If the Taliban regain control of Afghanistan, all the blood and treasure that America and its many wonderful allies spent during the past twenty years trying to make Afghanistan a good country that recognizes and respects human rights will all have been for naught, a big waste! Eighteen hundred U.S. soldiers lost their lives fighting this Afghanistan War, these fallen soldiers' families have had to endure the indescribable loss of not having their loved one with them, twenty-thousand soldiers were wounded--in-action in this War many having lost limbs and other vital aspects of their health; now the U.S. government is taking steps that will make this sacrifice meaningless, just one big waste! This is wrong the American government should not do this to these families, it should not be so disrespectful about what these families gave to this country!

There is another option for America here besides continuing to have U.S. soldiers on the ground fighting in Afghanistan; America could leave its air power in Afghanistan. If America could leave some fixed wing aircraft and some Apache helicopters there then these resources could be used to aid and back-up Afghanistan armed forces defending the country's major cities and if these cities can be held then the Afghanistan people will still have a country that respects human rights and supports human freedom, albeit a smaller country. This buys the Afghanistan government time and time possibly could change their situation making it more favorable to the Afghanistan people and human rights. Time could bring the Pakistani government and its people recognizing and becoming intolerable of the evil Taliban leadership having their home base in the mountains of Pakistan and shut this leadership down! Time could bring the world and especially the Islamic world become more unaccepting and intolerable of the version of an Islamic religion that is counter to and violates human rights which the Taliban espouses. Time could bring ordinary Afghanistan citizens getting really tired and fed-up with the Middle Age society that the Taliban offer when a much better twenty-first century life could be in their reach and Afghanistan could see grass root rebellions against the Taliban where local Afghanis just rise up and kill the local Taliban leadership and their armed supporters!

There is still time for the America government not to abandon the Afghanistan people to the Taliban there is still time for the American government not to throw away two decades of extraordinarily virtuous effort by the free world to help the people of Afghanistan acquire their freedom and build a good country! The American government need only leave its air power in Afghanistan, it need only make this commitment for two years with the proviso that in two years it will make an assessment to determine if it still makes sense to leave these resources in the country!


I agree that it is a terrible mistake for the United States and NATO to suddenly be withdrawing from Afghanistan. With just 10,000 NATO troops on the ground, 2,500 of them U.S. troops, the United States/NATO had enough military force, primarily through its air power, to effectively support the Afghan National Army.

Prior to April 2021, the Afghanistan Government controlled the Following:
01. All 34 Provincial Capitals in Afghanistan
02. All or part of 348 of Afghanistan's 421 Districts. Essentially 83% control of the country.
03. The Taliban were isolated to remote rural Districts.

Now, after just 3 months and the withdrawal of most NATO forces the situation is the Following according to the Long War Journal:

01. All 34 Provincial Capitals still nominally under Afghan control, but with many surrounded by the Taliban and the Taliban contesting Afghan control for several of the provincial capitals.
02. A little over 200 districts are now under control of the Taliban. Another 130 are contested, and the Afghan government only have full control of about 90 Districts.
03. It should be noted though that the "Long War Journal" has exaggerated Taliban advances in the past, so don't conclude the above numbers are 100% accurate.


One of the main problems is the peace agreement that DONALD TRUMP signed with the Taliban in March 2020, about a year and half ago. There is a essentially a ceasefire between the Taliban and NATO where the Taliban don't target NATO forces and NATO does not target the Taliban. So NATO airpower has only been used in the past 18 months when there have been violations of this rule and NATO forces have either been attacked or put in danger.

The Afghanistan military has not had the regular support of NATO airpower since Trump signed the agreement with the Taliban in March 2020. So airpower that was stationed in country the last three months, and could have been used to support Afghanistan military forces was not used at all. Now, nearly all of it has been withdrawn.


By September, all NATO forces will be gone. The United States and NATO will still have what are called "beyond the horizon" air assets that could bomb targets from bases outside Afghanistan or from carrier platforms in the Indian Ocean, but the Peace deal is still in place so It does not appear there will be any NATO Air Support for the Afghan military after September 2021, unless BIDEN were to rip up the peace deal with the Taliban, which he should.


DONALD TRUMP started the abandonment of Afghanistan when he signed the peace deal with Taliban in March 2020. U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker appears to have been right that it represented a total capitulation of the United States and NATO to the Taliban. JOE BIDEN has doubled down on Trump's plan and has actively moved U.S. and NATO troops out of the country.

The conservative isolationist of DONALD TRUMP, and the Progressive Leftist in JOE BIDEN's camp have essentially joined forces to abandon Afghanistan and do serious harm to United States and global security.



One can only hope that the Afghan National Military can some how lead some sort of a come back where they stop the Taliban advance and begin to retake large parts of the country. The fear though is that with Taliban control of many districts in the north that are not ethnically Pashtun and used to be the base of the Northern Alliance's support, that this may no longer be possible. There is also the possibility that the Taliban have held off on taking any provincial capitals because they want to wait for the U.S./NATO withdrawal to be 100% complete.

It remains to be seen whether the Afghan Government has weeks, months or years left or can regain control of the situation, the momentum, and show that they can carry on indefinitely. If the Afghan government and military collapse, especially within the next year, then it will indeed be the fault of DONALD TRUMP and JOE BIDEN.

With only a small force of around 10,000 NATO troops, the Afghan government and military controlled most of the country and had for years, decades. The sudden pullout of this small number of NATO troops could now lead to the end of the Afghan National Army and Government. IF that happens Afghanistan will then be owned by those that helped launch the devastating attacks of September 11, 2001. It is unbelievable that a U.S. government would allow an entity, like the Taliban, that helped with the September 11, 2001 attacks, to assume control of Afghanistan again. Its a disgrace and betrayal of all the American's who died on September 11, 2001.

The NATO deployment of only 10,000 troops was a DROP IN THE BUCKET in terms of annual cost and did an incredible amount of good for U.S. Security, Global Security, and the Security of Afghanistan. So much was being achieved at a very low cost to the United States and its NATO Allies. Sadly, America no longer remembers 9/11, and thinks it is immune to terrorism. Time and success can breed complacency.
 
Ever since the White House announced the withdrawal of U.S. military forces from Afghanistan by September of this year the reality on the ground in Afghanistan is that the Afghanistan Army has been losing battle after battle against the Taliban, the Taliban have taken control of numerous districts in the country. The bottom line is that the Afghanistan Army is not strong enough and effective enough as a fighting force to take on the Taliban across the country of Afghanistan; but, the Afghanistan Army is strong and effective enough to defend major cities throughout Afghanistan and the regions surrounding these cities against Taliban fighting forces "if" the Afghanistan Army has a superpower country's air power behind it because the airpower can neutralize any significant Taliban attacking force threatening the Afghanistan army in these regions. The Taliban victories during the last two months place the "writing on the wall", that being, if America and its allies completely withdraw military support from the Afghanistan government, that government and the country of Afghanistan will completely fall to the Taliban. The Taliban are too capable as an insurgent force they know how to kill, terrorize and topple a government; once America leaves it will only be a matter of "when" not "if" the Afghanistan government will fall to the Taliban.

If the Taliban regain control of Afghanistan, all the blood and treasure that America and its many wonderful allies spent during the past twenty years trying to make Afghanistan a good country that recognizes and respects human rights will all have been for naught, a big waste! Eighteen hundred U.S. soldiers lost their lives fighting this Afghanistan War, these fallen soldiers' families have had to endure the indescribable loss of not having their loved one with them, twenty-thousand soldiers were wounded--in-action in this War many having lost limbs and other vital aspects of their health; now the U.S. government is taking steps that will make this sacrifice meaningless, just one big waste! This is wrong the American government should not do this to these families, it should not be so disrespectful about what these families gave to this country!

There is another option for America here besides continuing to have U.S. soldiers on the ground fighting in Afghanistan; America could leave its air power in Afghanistan. If America could leave some fixed wing aircraft and some Apache helicopters there then these resources could be used to aid and back-up Afghanistan armed forces defending the country's major cities and if these cities can be held then the Afghanistan people will still have a country that respects human rights and supports human freedom, albeit a smaller country. This buys the Afghanistan government time and time possibly could change their situation making it more favorable to the Afghanistan people and human rights. Time could bring the Pakistani government and its people recognizing and becoming intolerable of the evil Taliban leadership having their home base in the mountains of Pakistan and shut this leadership down! Time could bring the world and especially the Islamic world become more unaccepting and intolerable of the version of an Islamic religion that is counter to and violates human rights which the Taliban espouses. Time could bring ordinary Afghanistan citizens getting really tired and fed-up with the Middle Age society that the Taliban offer when a much better twenty-first century life could be in their reach and Afghanistan could see grass root rebellions against the Taliban where local Afghanis just rise up and kill the local Taliban leadership and their armed supporters!

There is still time for the America government not to abandon the Afghanistan people to the Taliban there is still time for the American government not to throw away two decades of extraordinarily virtuous effort by the free world to help the people of Afghanistan acquire their freedom and build a good country! The American government need only leave its air power in Afghanistan, it need only make this commitment for two years with the proviso that in two years it will make an assessment to determine if it still makes sense to leave these resources in the country!

Its very complicated.

 
Losing a war in Afghanistan puts us in pretty good company ... Russia did it twice, Britain did it THREE TIMES.
 

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