Are Americans Race Cowards?

[ClosedCaption]

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Hardcore partisan ideologues can talk themselves into pretty much anything.

There will never be an honest discussion about race, because it would take away the Left's political advantage.

The decay continues.

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See? Perfect example

Yep. I see it.

I am always willing to discuss matters of race. I've been living for nearly 50 years and have never felt pressure to keep unite about race. I've never felt as though I needed to shut up or be called a racist.

I wonder why that is?

You're not being sensitive enough

 

[FA_Q2]

Why is it that blacks as a group exhibit such poor socio-economic trends? Bottom in education, bottom in poverty, bottom in single parent homes, bottom in out of wedlock births, etc? The Holders claim it is due to systemic racism, whatever that means.
But if you look at any other distinct group--Hispanics, Asians, Jews--all of which suffered discrimination in the past as well you find they do generally better than average Americans in all those same socio-economic measures.
So it can't be racism. Unless someone wants to make the case that racists are somehow uniquely hostile to blacks, and that they occupy the majority of positions of authority in America.
And all of this is despite 40 years of preferential programs for blacks--affirmative action, set asides, minority quotas, etc.
So how to explain it?
The obvious explanation is the very one the Holders dont want to hear: blacks have a dysfunctional culture, learned from poor whites, that mitigates against any achievement. And in fact, when you find blacks outside of sports and entertainment who have achieved high levels of success you also find they have shucked that dysfunctional culture in favor of mainsteam American culture.
The issue is cultural and internal.

What you will dismiss whole heartedly is the effect of slavery. Look at any group anywhere in the world that was held back by the majority of the population. You'll find that they (surprisingly) do not do as well as the oppressors. Shocking I know. If you believe that history effects the future. Then you'll have to acknowledge that the history of slavery effects the present.

50 years of laws (which you object too constantly as racist) doesnt change 400+ years of history. Whites have had 400 years here and they are still in trailers. So you have to figure that every black person cant be in a great place after 50 years

And? Where do you think that underlying cultural issue comes from?

Yep, has a lot to do with slavery. The problem is that you keep using it as an EXCUSE for why an entire demographic of people cannot seem to overcome their plight. That is what excuses do. They keep you right where you are at.

Rather than point out slavery and its effects how about you point out what needs to be DONE about it. How those cultural norms must be dealt with of the problems caused by them sill never dissipate. No, it seems that people would rather talk about more of the same garbage that has been done for years and accomplished nothing but to stratify the people.

What was the definition of insanity again?

 

[ClosedCaption]

Why is it that blacks as a group exhibit such poor socio-economic trends? Bottom in education, bottom in poverty, bottom in single parent homes, bottom in out of wedlock births, etc? The Holders claim it is due to systemic racism, whatever that means.
But if you look at any other distinct group--Hispanics, Asians, Jews--all of which suffered discrimination in the past as well you find they do generally better than average Americans in all those same socio-economic measures.
So it can't be racism. Unless someone wants to make the case that racists are somehow uniquely hostile to blacks, and that they occupy the majority of positions of authority in America.
And all of this is despite 40 years of preferential programs for blacks--affirmative action, set asides, minority quotas, etc.
So how to explain it?
The obvious explanation is the very one the Holders dont want to hear: blacks have a dysfunctional culture, learned from poor whites, that mitigates against any achievement. And in fact, when you find blacks outside of sports and entertainment who have achieved high levels of success you also find they have shucked that dysfunctional culture in favor of mainsteam American culture.
The issue is cultural and internal.

What you will dismiss whole heartedly is the effect of slavery. Look at any group anywhere in the world that was held back by the majority of the population. You'll find that they (surprisingly) do not do as well as the oppressors. Shocking I know. If you believe that history effects the future. Then you'll have to acknowledge that the history of slavery effects the present.

50 years of laws (which you object too constantly as racist) doesnt change 400+ years of history. Whites have had 400 years here and they are still in trailers. So you have to figure that every black person cant be in a great place after 50 years

And? Where do you think that underlying cultural issue comes from?

Explain what you mean here

Yep, has a lot to do with slavery. The problem is that you keep using it as an EXCUSE for why an entire demographic of people cannot seem to overcome their plight. That is what excuses do. They keep you right where you are at.

Actually plenty of blacks have overcome and the fact that you call it an excuse means that you dont believe the past effects the future. Ok, then, kinda stupid logic but I can see how you come up with false results using false logic now. Blacks are doing as well as whites like I said, Are you surprised by this?

Rather than point out slavery and its effects how about you point out what needs to be DONE about it. How those cultural norms must be dealt with of the problems caused by them sill never dissipate. No, it seems that people would rather talk about more of the same garbage that has been done for years and accomplished nothing but to stratify the people.

What was the definition of insanity again?

I always vouch for more Affirmative Action programs specifically for blacks. Not the kind that white women and asians use up and then white people like yourself put it all on blacks.

Now I bet you have a whole NEW set of problems now that I've answered dont you?

 

[FA_Q2]

And? Where do you think that underlying cultural issue comes from?

Explain what you mean here

How is that unclear? The problem is a culteral one - a culteral problem born out of a long time spent in chains.

Yep, has a lot to do with slavery. The problem is that you keep using it as an EXCUSE for why an entire demographic of people cannot seem to overcome their plight. That is what excuses do. They keep you right where you are at.

Actually plenty of blacks have overcome and the fact that you call it an excuse means that you dont believe the past effects the future. Ok, then, kinda stupid logic but I can see how you come up with false results using false logic now. Blacks are doing as well as whites like I said, Are you surprised by this?

Everything that you just stated is absolute bubkis.

Never did I state that the past does not affect the future. Where did you state that BLACKS (not a singular black person) are doing as good as whites. You actually sated the exact opposite - and then touted that it backed your arguments up (which it certainly does not).

the clear issue here is that the underlying cultural issues that are rather pervasive within the poorer black communities MUST be dealt with or the problems will never be solved. Do you know what affirmative action programs do to relive these problems.

Nothing. And then everyone wonders why they are not working. So many scream pervasive and systemic rasism. As Rabbi correctly pointed out - it seems to be affecting ONE SINGULAR group of minorities. That blows that theory out of the water.

Rather than point out slavery and its effects how about you point out what needs to be DONE about it. How those cultural norms must be dealt with of the problems caused by them sill never dissipate. No, it seems that people would rather talk about more of the same garbage that has been done for years and accomplished nothing but to stratify the people.

What was the definition of insanity again?

I always vouch for more Affirmative Action programs specifically for blacks. Not the kind that white women and asians use up and then white people like yourself put it all on blacks.

Now I bet you have a whole NEW set of problems now that I've answered dont you?

And again, what do those programs actually accomplish to eliminate the underlying cultural problem that crates all those symptoms?

You are treating the symptom and leaving the disease unchecked.

 

[ClosedCaption]

And? Where do you think that underlying cultural issue comes from?

Explain what you mean here

How is that unclear? The problem is a culteral one - a culteral problem born out of a long time spent in chains.


Everything that you just stated is absolute bubkis.

Never did I state that the past does not affect the future. Where did you state that BLACKS (not a singular black person) are doing as good as whites. You actually sated the exact opposite - and then touted that it backed your arguments up (which it certainly does not).

Yes you caught that. I meant arent doing as well as whites. Again are you surprised by this? Also if the problem is a cultural one stemming from being in chains are you saying now that slavery does effect the future?

the clear issue here is that the underlying cultural issues that are rather pervasive within the poorer black communities MUST be dealt with or the problems will never be solved. Do you know what affirmative action programs do to relive these problems.

You watch too much TV. Black culture is no different than white. We have our music that ranges from violent to peaceful. We both make fun of nerds and hold jocks up and something cool. When a white person talks urban he gets made fun of all that stuff. You just think blacks reactions are worst because you arent black therefore it must be something really really bad

Nothing. And then everyone wonders why they are not working. So many scream pervasive and systemic rasism. As Rabbi correctly pointed out - it seems to be affecting ONE SINGULAR group of minorities. That blows that theory out of the water.

Uhh, like I said AA's #1 user is the white woman....#2 Asians. So like I said an AA program specifically for blacks would help. But I'm trying to tell you that and you believe this programs already exists.

And again, what do those programs actually accomplish to eliminate the underlying cultural problem that crates all those symptoms?

You are treating the symptom and leaving the disease unchecked.

This cultural problem you speak of...What is it?

 

[FA_Q2]

Yes you caught that. I meant arent doing as well as whites. Again are you surprised by this? Also if the problem is a cultural one stemming from being in chains are you saying now that slavery does effect the future?

That at least makes more sense. I have never stated otherwise. To say so is just silly.

Of course the past affects the present. That is not the point. The point is that you have to DEAL with that reality rather than simply state that is what is keeping you down and demand reparations or special treatment. The question is HOW is past slavery causing this problem. That is the huge gap that you have entirely jumped over in favor of simply stating that it does. The how is FAR more important than the what here and it is reflected in cultural problems.

You watch too much TV. Black culture is no different than white. We have our music that ranges from violent to peaceful. We both make fun of nerds and hold jocks up and something cool. When a white person talks urban he gets made fun of all that stuff. You just think blacks reactions are worst because you arent black therefore it must be something really really bad

I don't even have television so you can take those blanket assumptions out and just deal with the arguments.

Here is where you are completely and utterly incorrect by the way. I have to ask what race you are though because to not realize there is a STARK difference in black culture is hard to believe. Have you even had much contact with blacks that have lived in ghettos? I have a feeling that you have not.

It comes down to a system of values that simply does not encourage grater success. The same can be shown in Asian's. The do FAR better than whites on average. Simplifying far more than it really should be: their culture values education and family above all else (with the self rather low on the scale). Black culture tends to value physical prowess far more than education. Sex over family.

What is the single parent rate for black families and how does it compare with other races? Do you not understand that this is cultural? What do you think is the cause if it is not?

Nothing. And then everyone wonders why they are not working. So many scream pervasive and systemic rasism. As Rabbi correctly pointed out - it seems to be affecting ONE SINGULAR group of minorities. That blows that theory out of the water.

Uhh, like I said AA's #1 user is the white woman....#2 Asians. So like I said an AA program specifically for blacks would help. But I'm trying to tell you that and you believe this programs already exists.

Sure, you are tying to tell me what I believe now? That's nice - when you cant uphold your own arguments - make mine up.

So tell me, why is this program going to suddenly work better when those nasty asains and whites are not able to use it? Do you even understand how silly that notion sounds.

And I repeat, again, what does it SOLVE?

And again, what do those programs actually accomplish to eliminate the underlying cultural problem that crates all those symptoms?

You are treating the symptom and leaving the disease unchecked.

This cultural problem you speak of...What is it?

Do you not know what culture is?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/culture
5b:
the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group; also : the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time <popular culture> <southern culture>

Every group of people has an underlying cultural aspect - particularly when speaking of race and racial realities. Those social norms that exist within the black community are NOT pushing them forward but are holding them back.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Of course the past affects the present. That is not the point. The point is that you have to DEAL with that reality rather than simply state that is what is keeping you down and demand reparations or special treatment. The question is HOW is past slavery causing this problem. That is the huge gap that you have entirely jumped over in favor of simply stating that it does. The how is FAR more important than the what here and it is reflected in cultural problems.

Dude I’m living therefore I am dealing with the reality. Past slavery took away our culture, family, kept feet on our necks, took away our rights, dignity etc. That stuff doesn’t go away because white people decide one day to let little negros go to school.

I don't even have television so you can take those blanket assumptions out and just deal with the arguments.

Here is where you are completely and utterly incorrect by the way. I have to ask what race you are though because to not realize there is a STARK difference in black culture is hard to believe. Have you even had much contact with blacks that have lived in ghettos? I have a feeling that you have not.

I am black and I have lived in and been too many hoods. You simply look in the window at another culture and deem it “strange” like most people who aren’t exposed to different cultures. Sure its different and it’s the same in a lot of ways. You just see the grass on the other side as “scary grass”

It comes down to a system of values that simply does not encourage grater success. The same can be shown in Asian's. The do FAR better than whites on average. Simplifying far more than it really should be: their culture values education and family above all else (with the self rather low on the scale). Black culture tends to value physical prowess far more than education. Sex over family.

Asians are smart, they value education. Blacks are athletic, they value athletics. Whites are white, they value their priviledge. But all cultures value education to say one doesn’t is just stupid.

What is the single parent rate for black families and how does it compare with other races? Do you not understand that this is cultural? What do you think is the cause if it is not?

Good question. Stats say blacks have more single parent household than others. Blacks fuck a lot like other poor people. Again, are you surprised? White households, sorry…Every other culture households have an increase in single family households. We don’t sit around an extol the virtues of baby mamas if that’s what you think or mean by “cultural”

 

[Meathead]

Good question. Stats say blacks have more single parent household than others. Blacks fuck a lot like other poor people. Again, are you surprised? White households, sorry…Every other culture households have an increase in single family households. We don’t sit around an extol the virtues of baby mamas if that’s what you think or mean by “cultural”

Aren't you the one that brought up the idea of frequency?

Clearly, the situation has gotten worse across-the-board, but frequency is far worse with blacks.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Past slavery took away our culture, family, kept feet on our necks, took away our rights, dignity etc. That stuff doesn’t go away because white people decide one day to let little negros go to school.

Dear Sir,

I find your position interesting and find myself in the same situation. As my distant ancestor, Spartacus, noted, those damned dirty Romans inflicted a lot of harm on their slaves and I can attest that that harm doesn't go away no matter how distant in the past the slavery was. Could you please send me some chapters from your victimization handbook that could help me blame those people living in modern-day Rome for what their ancestors did to my people.

Yours in Victimhood,


Rikurzhen

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Past slavery took away our culture, family, kept feet on our necks, took away our rights, dignity etc. That stuff doesn’t go away because white people decide one day to let little negros go to school.

Dear Sir,

I find your position interesting and find myself in the same situation. As my distant ancestor, Spartacus, noted, those damned dirty Romans inflicted a lot of harm on their slaves and I can attest that that harm doesn't go away no matter how distant in the past the slavery was. Could you please send me some chapters from your victimization handbook that could help me blame those people living in modern-day Rome for what their ancestors did to my people.

Yours in Victimhood,


Rikurzhen

It's always so easy to look down upon others, when you are (whitey) king of the hill...

 

[Meathead]

Past slavery took away our culture, family, kept feet on our necks, took away our rights, dignity etc. That stuff doesn’t go away because white people decide one day to let little negros go to school.

Dear Sir,

I find your position interesting and find myself in the same situation. As my distant ancestor, Spartacus, noted, those damned dirty Romans inflicted a lot of harm on their slaves and I can attest that that harm doesn't go away no matter how distant in the past the slavery was. Could you please send me some chapters from your victimization handbook that could help me blame those people living in modern-day Rome for what their ancestors did to my people.

Yours in Victimhood,


Rikurzhen

Are you Greek too?

 

[FA_Q2]

Dude I’m living therefore I am dealing with the reality. Past slavery took away our culture, family, kept feet on our necks, took away our rights, dignity etc. That stuff doesn’t go away because white people decide one day to let little negros go to school.

You apparently have not been listening at all then because I have NEVER stated that it went away. YOU have to overcome it - period. It ALSO does not go away because white people create an AA program just for blacks or affirmative action ensures blacks get a few more jobs or ANY OTHER PROGRAM. These are not problems you can whisk away by taking something from others. They are cultural problems that the black community must deal with. ONLY they can deal with it because it is their culture.

I don't even have television so you can take those blanket assumptions out and just deal with the arguments.

Here is where you are completely and utterly incorrect by the way. I have to ask what race you are though because to not realize there is a STARK difference in black culture is hard to believe. Have you even had much contact with blacks that have lived in ghettos? I have a feeling that you have not.

I am black and I have lived in and been too many hoods. You simply look in the window at another culture and deem it “strange” like most people who aren’t exposed to different cultures. Sure its different and it’s the same in a lot of ways. You just see the grass on the other side as “scary grass”

'Strange.'

Nope, never once said it was strange. More attempts at painting an argument that is not there so you don't have to address the points.

And I am not 'most people that have not been exposed to different cultures.' I have been around a ton of cultures all over the world. It is 'strange' that is the problem.

It comes down to a system of values that simply does not encourage grater success. The same can be shown in Asian's. The do FAR better than whites on average. Simplifying far more than it really should be: their culture values education and family above all else (with the self rather low on the scale). Black culture tends to value physical prowess far more than education. Sex over family.

Asians are smart, they value education. Blacks are athletic, they value athletics. Whites are white, they value their priviledge. But all cultures value education to say one doesn’t is just stupid.

Then you are simply blind and do not want to see. I guess simply demanding more shit and programs is easy. Unfortunately easy does not work.

'Whites value their privilege.' More victim mentality and outright racism. Nice - you are embodying the very essence of what I have been stating.

If you cant bother to see the differences in local cultures and open your eyes to how it directly impacts the people then there is simply no point in continuing this conversation. Just blame it on racism and slavery - then you don't need to actually do anything.

What is the single parent rate for black families and how does it compare with other races? Do you not understand that this is cultural? What do you think is the cause if it is not?

Good question. Stats say blacks have more single parent household than others. Blacks fuck a lot like other poor people. Again, are you surprised? White households, sorry…Every other culture households have an increase in single family households. We don’t sit around an extol the virtues of baby mamas if that’s what you think or mean by “cultural”

No, I am not surprised at all because I understand why. You on the other hand seem to only be able to note that blacks fuck like everyone else, have poverty like everyone else but for some reason have a VASTLY higher single parenthood rate than anyone else yet you seem completely lost on a reason. I asked what reason YOU thought it was because you cant seem to grasp the meaning of culture yet I notice that you failed to note any reason at all. All you seem to be able to say is that it is not culture.


Get back to me when you understand the word and its impact.

 

[ClosedCaption]

And I am not 'most people that have not been exposed to different cultures.' I have been around a ton of cultures all over the world. It is 'strange' that is the problem.

Good but you still dont understand them. I imagine its because you spend so much time throwing in your own interpretations instead of hearing the other side out. My family, my friends relatives etc all value education. There isnt one person I know of who thinks education is a waste of time. But again, Im just a black guy, what do I know about black people? *shrug*

Then you are simply blind and do not want to see. I guess simply demanding more shit and programs is easy. Unfortunately easy does not work.

'Whites value their privilege.' More victim mentality and outright racism. Nice - you are embodying the very essence of what I have been stating.

If you cant bother to see the differences in local cultures and open your eyes to how it directly impacts the people then there is simply no point in continuing this conversation. Just blame it on racism and slavery - then you don't need to actually do anything.

If demanding programs was easy it would be done already, right? Or its so easy that it hasnt been done yet? Anywho..

White people are the majority here. If you want to pretend that the majority in this country are just like the minorities then you have to play that game by yourself. Stating that whites have more priviledge isnt racist, at least by any definition I know of but hey...

I didnt say we didnt have to do anything but if you are saying the state of the entire black community is because of millions of people being the same thats bullshit. Blacks arent all the same, they dont share the same personalities sooooo...I dont understand.

No, I am not surprised at all because I understand why. You on the other hand seem to only be able to note that blacks fuck like everyone else, have poverty like everyone else but for some reason have a VASTLY higher single parenthood rate than anyone else yet you seem completely lost on a reason. I asked what reason YOU thought it was because you cant seem to grasp the meaning of culture yet I notice that you failed to note any reason at all. All you seem to be able to say is that it is not culture.


Get back to me when you understand the word and its impact.

Ok so tell me, what do you think is the reason behind the high rate in single parent in the black community and how our culture is to blame.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Ok so tell me, what do you think is the reason behind the high rate in single parent in the black community and how our culture is to blame.

When slaves arrived in America they didn't arrive as blank slates, their entire existence and history, their personalities, beliefs and practices were not wiped clean.

So, just as every other human on the earth they raised their own children grounded, as much as they could, in what they knew and what they believed. Granted, slave-owners tried to impose white-Christian early American values on the slaves and in some cases they got outward compliance along with inner resistance and other times a new custom was grafted onto the slave's customs. This cultural imposition is still playing out today - kids enforcing black customs when they target a peer for "acting white."

Blacks like being black, they like their customs, just like Japanese like being Japanese and they like their customs.

I'm surprised that so many people are ignorant of African cultural practices with respect to mating and marriage.

A huge factor responsible for the AIDS crisis in Africa is the mating practice of parallel mating. Multiple sex partners, even for married people is very common.

In European societies we see more of serial mating patterns. Monogamy until it no longer satisfies and then move onto a new person.

This mating pattern is so rooted in African cultures that the downstream effects are widely felt. Even inheritance law, for instance. See here, (don't pay attention to the reporter's ignorant theorizing, just note the facts she reports):

There are two reasons why 11-year-old Chikumbutso Zuze never sees his three sisters, why he seldom has a full belly, why he sleeps packed sardinelike with six cousins on the dirt floor of his aunt's thatched mud hut.

One is AIDS, which claimed his father in 2000 and his mother in 2001. The other is his father's nephew, a tall, light-complexioned man whom Chikumbutso knows only as Mr. Sululu.

It was Mr. Sululu who came to his village five years ago, after his father died, and commandeered all of the family's belongings - mattresses, chairs and, most important, the family's green Toyota pickup, an almost unimaginable luxury in this, one of the poorest nations on earth. And it was Mr. Sululu who rejected the pleas of the boy's mother, herself dying of AIDS, to leave the truck so that her children would have an inheritance to sustain them after her death.

Instead, Chikumbutso said, he left behind a battery-powered transistor radio.

"I feel very bitter about it," he said, plopped on a wooden bench in 12-by-12-foot hut rented by his maternal aunt and uncle on the outskirts of this town in the lush hills of southern Malawi. "We don't really know why they did all this. We couldn't understand."

Actually, the answer is simple: custom. Throughout sub-Saharan Africa the death of a father automatically entitles his side of the family to claim most, if not all, of the property he leaves behind, even if it leaves his survivors destitute.​

What the reporter misses is this - in a social environment where there exist many parallel sexual relationships, the man CAN NEVER be sure of paternity. Is the child born to his wife his or that of another man? What can he be sure of? He can be sure that the child born to his sister is related to him. Who gave shelter to the orphans? The maternal aunt and uncle and they did this because they knew that these children were born to their niece. The paternal side of the family has no assurance that these children were in fact fathered by the husband.

This custom exists for a reason, it's not some mindless invention.

So to get to your question, why would we expect the slave experience to bust the cultural practices of the slaves? It hasn't. What we're seeing play out in America's black community is pretty damn close to how the mating and marriage game is played out in numerous African cultures. Americans blacks are more comfortable with parallel relationships than are white-Americans. This preference plays out and delivers the consequences we see. Why would a black-American male want to commit to raising a child which might not be his?

Black male behavior in America is found in Black-run societies in Africa:

Kenya:

Six of every 10 Kenyan women are likely to be single mothers by the time they reach 45, one of the highest rates for single-parent families in Africa.

According to new research that reveals an astounding new face of the Kenyan family, an increasing number of women are drawn into single parenthood as more men abandon their traditional role as providers for their children.

An array of factors, including irresponsible fathers, peer pressure and the struggle to cope with modernisation, are blamed for the trend, in which three in 10 Kenyan girls become pregnant before the age of 18.​

South Africa:

Almost half of all mothers in South Africa are single.

Only 33% of black children live with their fathers whereas 87% of white children live with both parents.​

Liberia:

A research conducted in some counties of Liberia suggests that approximately 95 percent of women in the country are single mothers, which estimate gender experts say represents a single most significant gender-factor in national development because it clearly relates to women participation and representation.​