Boehner walks away from debt talks

[NYcarbineer]

What was the bill number again?

IT'S OFFICIAL: The Dream Of A "Clean" Debt Ceiling Vote Just Died, And We're Now In Uncharted Territory


Debt Ceiling: Clean Debt Ceiling Vote Fails 318-97

The Republicans took their stand in May by unanimously voting against raising the debt ceiling.

So default is ALL on the GOP.

That vote was taken more than two months ago. OLD news, dude!

And what exactly is your point? The other idiot poster denied there was such a vote.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why can't SS checks be funded with the TRUST FUND in the LOCK BOX?

The "LOCK BOX" is filled with IOUs.
Congress loves to rob SS to pay for pet projects.

Social security invests in treasury bills in order to collect INTEREST. Like anyone else who buys treasuries does, including, probably, any private employer pension plan.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So when Reagan increased our military spending to bankrupt them, it only worked because they couldn't handle it and went bankrupt, it had nothing to do with that Reagan increased military spending to drive them bankrupt.

Every day you are a new educational experience, Chris...

Now it's bankrupting us. What was the point of borrowing hundreds of billions to escalate the Cold War? What did we gain? We're still spending ourselves into oblivion on defense, the Russians still have a few thousand missiles ready to fire at us, we got lunatics all over the country wanting to further bankrupt us with missile defense systems, we're spending billions maintaining troops and material in Cold War defensive postures in places like Europe and Korea...

...pardon the expression, but, what the fuck did we WIN???????

(btw, that's not a rhetorical question. IOW, it merits an answer.)

Stop deflecting.
You've been harping on defense spending and really, you're not in the thread.
Now, I will admit that we're wasting a whole heckofa lot of money having troops stationed in ungrateful nations. I say, bring them home and put then on our borders and in our seaports and airports.
If the rest of the world gets offended, tough shit.

Fuck off. Someone else started talking about the Cold War. Take your crybabying to them.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[Oh and from your link-

In a largely symbolic vote, the clean hike failed 318-97.

Read more: Debt Ceiling: Clean Debt Ceiling Vote Fails 318-97


I guess the Republicans are not the only ones who send "worthless" bills that don't have a chance of passing up for a vote eh?

That is an amusingly puzzling comment, since the bill was in fact introduced by REPUBLICAN Dave Camp, chairman of the House Ways and Means committee.

 

[MeBelle]

Horseshit.

There are no Maxists in America.

And asking everyone to buy health insurance from for profit corporations is not socialist.

I really am embarrassed for you talking such silliness.

It's not "asking" when it's forced with the threat of a fine. But you're correct that it's not socialist. It's fascist.

Bullshit.

It's just good policy.

I guess making everyone buy car insurance is "fascist" too?

Nawwww, car insurance is regulated by the states, not the fed Govt like Obama's health insurance mandate.
So I see my die-hard Dem Dr (he admits voting for Obama, bless his heart) the other day and he asks me why bureaucrats, not working in the field of medicine, get to make decisions regarding Dr/Patient care? He believes that Dr/Patient care is between the Dr/Patient who have an established relationship and is sacred. Dr/Patient can collude on what is best for the pt.
I ask him if I can use my chickens to render my co-pay and he tells me he really needs tomatoes, which I do have.
Then we converse about patients who have retired from city/county/school districts (non-union) are given as part of their retirement package, lifetime health insurance premiums paid for , yet at the 'magical' age of 65 or so are FORCED into accepting Medicare. Why in the hell is that, when the retiree already have a payor for their health insurance! Seems as though Fed Govt WANTS to take over and at what cost to the tax payer??
We both rail that what is needed is TORT reform, opening of State lines in order to allow insurance companies to compete for customers and to get the Fed Govt OUT of the health insurance business, when there are plenty of retirees who already HAVE health insurance through other means.
By the way, the city/county/school districts must STILL pay the full premiums, yet they are secondary to Medicare.
If the forcing of retirees into the Medicare system stopped, Govt could save a helluva lot of money!
Not to mention that many Doctors, especially PCP, have begun to refuse Medicare patients.
I love my Doc!

 

[MeBelle]

[Oh and from your link-

In a largely symbolic vote, the clean hike failed 318-97.

Read more: Debt Ceiling: Clean Debt Ceiling Vote Fails 318-97


I guess the Republicans are not the only ones who send "worthless" bills that don't have a chance of passing up for a vote eh?

That is an amusingly puzzling comment, since the bill was in fact introduced by REPUBLICAN Dave Camp, chairman of the House Ways and Means committee.

Sorry to be a poor sport, but can you provide a link where Camp took the bill through committee then presented it to the House? I find where he talks a lot about it, but cannot find a current reference where he did indeed introduce a bill. And who co-sponsored the bill?
Thanks in advance.

 

[MeBelle]

IT'S OFFICIAL: The Dream Of A "Clean" Debt Ceiling Vote Just Died, And We're Now In Uncharted Territory


Debt Ceiling: Clean Debt Ceiling Vote Fails 318-97

The Republicans took their stand in May by unanimously voting against raising the debt ceiling.

So default is ALL on the GOP.

thats right, they did. Of course unless you believe that a plan with exactly zero cost cutting would have made moodys and the s&p feel all comfy?



and its all part of the plan my boy-

Why Democrats don't want to tie the debt ceiling to the tax cuts
By Ezra Klein
Posted at 4:06 PM ET, 12/ 9/2010

What's important to understand about the debt-ceiling vote -- where Democrats and Republicans will either strike a deal to increase the Treasury's borrowing cap or the country will collapse into default -- is that it's not like Democrats have simply forgotten about it. It's not that they haven't realized that they could tie it to the tax cuts, which Republicans want and which will add $900 billion to the debt. It's that they simply don't want to. “Let the Republicans have some buy-in on the debt. They’re going to have a majority in the House,” said Harry Reid. “I don’t think it should be when we have a heavily Democratic Senate, heavily Democratic House and a Democratic president.”

The theory goes something like this: Republicans will demand sharp spending cuts in return for lifting the debt ceiling. Let them. "Boehner et al have had the luxury of proposing all sorts of ideas that bear no relation to reality," says Jim Manley, Reid's spokesman. "Next year, they’ll have to lay it all out. No more magic asterisks, no more 'we’ll get back to you.’ "

In this telling, the debt ceiling vote represents a trap for Republicans more than an opportunity for Democrats. If Republicans want to cut spending, now's their chance. But that means passing a package of spending cuts, which they may find less enjoyable than simply saying that Democrats should stop spending so much. And if the American people aren't supportive of the Republicans’ spending cuts, the GOP will be caught defending an unpopular package as part of a political gambit that could lead to the bankruptcy of the United State of America.

more at

Ezra Klein - Why Democrats don't want to tie the debt ceiling to the tax cuts



Oh and from your link-

In a largely symbolic vote, the clean hike failed 318-97.

Read more: Debt Ceiling: Clean Debt Ceiling Vote Fails 318-97


I guess the Republicans are not the only ones who send "worthless" bills that don't have a chance of passing up for a vote eh?

The poster wanted proof the Republicans voted down a debt ceiling bill. They did. The 'symbolism' of it was to demonstrate that the Republicans would NOT support a clean bill, which happens to be my original point, which happens support my claim that default will be ALL the fault of the GOP.

Having tied debt ceiling passage to their own set of demands, the GOP made debt ceiling passage conditional. Therefore they have created all by themselves the only reason the country could default.

That makes the GOP solely responsible.

Two months ago this happened,,,,now it is TODAY, where Obama refuses to 'deal' with the House or even the Senate anymore (hello, HIS JOB!) add to that Pelosi and Reid turn their backs on the the Speaker of the House! Now that's TRUE compromise! So WHO is responsible for NOT negotiating in good faith? Obama, that's who!!

CUT SPENDING, period! And not on the backs of the seniors, or the truly poor who need our help. STOP using scare tactics, PERIOD!
Disclaimer: Last paragraph was not directed at any one person,,,merely shows my FRICKIN FRUSTRATION. Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[saveliberty]

Are you Democrats ready to eat your, country over party crap? This is how it ends. There will be a bill much like the one just passed by the House. It will be presented to the Senate again in the last hours before default. Then the Democrats and President can show us what they got.

 

[Trajan]

IT'S OFFICIAL: The Dream Of A "Clean" Debt Ceiling Vote Just Died, And We're Now In Uncharted Territory


Debt Ceiling: Clean Debt Ceiling Vote Fails 318-97

The Republicans took their stand in May by unanimously voting against raising the debt ceiling.

So default is ALL on the GOP.

thats right, they did. Of course unless you believe that a plan with exactly zero cost cutting would have made moodys and the s&p feel all comfy?



and its all part of the plan my boy-

Why Democrats don't want to tie the debt ceiling to the tax cuts
By Ezra Klein
Posted at 4:06 PM ET, 12/ 9/2010

What's important to understand about the debt-ceiling vote -- where Democrats and Republicans will either strike a deal to increase the Treasury's borrowing cap or the country will collapse into default -- is that it's not like Democrats have simply forgotten about it. It's not that they haven't realized that they could tie it to the tax cuts, which Republicans want and which will add $900 billion to the debt. It's that they simply don't want to. “Let the Republicans have some buy-in on the debt. They’re going to have a majority in the House,” said Harry Reid. “I don’t think it should be when we have a heavily Democratic Senate, heavily Democratic House and a Democratic president.”

The theory goes something like this: Republicans will demand sharp spending cuts in return for lifting the debt ceiling. Let them. "Boehner et al have had the luxury of proposing all sorts of ideas that bear no relation to reality," says Jim Manley, Reid's spokesman. "Next year, they’ll have to lay it all out. No more magic asterisks, no more 'we’ll get back to you.’ "

In this telling, the debt ceiling vote represents a trap for Republicans more than an opportunity for Democrats. If Republicans want to cut spending, now's their chance. But that means passing a package of spending cuts, which they may find less enjoyable than simply saying that Democrats should stop spending so much. And if the American people aren't supportive of the Republicans’ spending cuts, the GOP will be caught defending an unpopular package as part of a political gambit that could lead to the bankruptcy of the United State of America.

more at

Ezra Klein - Why Democrats don't want to tie the debt ceiling to the tax cuts



Oh and from your link-

In a largely symbolic vote, the clean hike failed 318-97.

Read more: Debt Ceiling: Clean Debt Ceiling Vote Fails 318-97


I guess the Republicans are not the only ones who send "worthless" bills that don't have a chance of passing up for a vote eh?

The poster wanted proof the Republicans voted down a debt ceiling bill. They did. The 'symbolism' of it was to demonstrate that the Republicans would NOT support a clean bill, which happens to be my original point, which happens support my claim that default will be ALL the fault of the GOP.

Having tied debt ceiling passage to their own set of demands, the GOP made debt ceiling passage conditional. Therefore they have created all by themselves the only reason the country could default.

That makes the GOP solely responsible.

false dilemma, you have constructed again, your own framework to make yourself right, so if they don't vote a clean bill, then we will default, fail.

what I provided you is a possible why we are here narrative, they knew they needed a debt limit increase way back in 2010, they purposely , with fore thought pushed it off for political advantage.

we spent 7 weeks very valuable weeks arguing over 38.5 billion dollars all along knowing we needed to raise the debt ceiling too....why didn't obama insist that the debt talks be rolled into that discussion as part of the 2011 budget process?

answer; as my link above by ezra klein ascribes, it was not politically advantageous, they felt they would have more weight if the debt talks pushed up against the drop dead date.....and here we are.

 

[Trajan]

Why can't SS checks be funded with the TRUST FUND in the LOCK BOX?

The "LOCK BOX" is filled with IOUs.
Congress loves to rob SS to pay for pet projects.

Social security invests in treasury bills in order to collect INTEREST. Like anyone else who buys treasuries does, including, probably, any private employer pension plan.

 

[Trajan]

[Oh and from your link-

In a largely symbolic vote, the clean hike failed 318-97.

Read more: Debt Ceiling: Clean Debt Ceiling Vote Fails 318-97


I guess the Republicans are not the only ones who send "worthless" bills that don't have a chance of passing up for a vote eh?

That is an amusingly puzzling comment, since the bill was in fact introduced by REPUBLICAN Dave Camp, chairman of the House Ways and Means committee.

you made comments in past as to the rep.s for example sending the cut cap and trade bill up and knowing it was useless, that the senate would kill it, thats why I posted that.

you appear to forget the positions you take becasue, you change your positions so often to fit your own past comments so as to make yourself right in every context- epic fail.

 

[Trajan]

I've paid my payroll tax for XX years. The US government borrowed my payroll taxes. I get interest AND I get my principal back if need be.

Your description is daft.

unless you die at 65...or 67, then Tom, Tino Mangesh or carlo gets it, your wife or 'other' doesn't the gov. 'disappears' it...

You sure you understand how insurance works?

for god sakes....


actually no, I think I do; I know that when I die my life insurance policy I have pays my wife the benefit, outside anything she gets form anywhere else incl. her own SS........so go figure it out....or

 

[mudwhistle]

thats right, they did. Of course unless you believe that a plan with exactly zero cost cutting would have made moodys and the s&p feel all comfy?



and its all part of the plan my boy-

Why Democrats don't want to tie the debt ceiling to the tax cuts
By Ezra Klein
Posted at 4:06 PM ET, 12/ 9/2010

What's important to understand about the debt-ceiling vote -- where Democrats and Republicans will either strike a deal to increase the Treasury's borrowing cap or the country will collapse into default -- is that it's not like Democrats have simply forgotten about it. It's not that they haven't realized that they could tie it to the tax cuts, which Republicans want and which will add $900 billion to the debt. It's that they simply don't want to. “Let the Republicans have some buy-in on the debt. They’re going to have a majority in the House,” said Harry Reid. “I don’t think it should be when we have a heavily Democratic Senate, heavily Democratic House and a Democratic president.”

The theory goes something like this: Republicans will demand sharp spending cuts in return for lifting the debt ceiling. Let them. "Boehner et al have had the luxury of proposing all sorts of ideas that bear no relation to reality," says Jim Manley, Reid's spokesman. "Next year, they’ll have to lay it all out. No more magic asterisks, no more 'we’ll get back to you.’ "

In this telling, the debt ceiling vote represents a trap for Republicans more than an opportunity for Democrats. If Republicans want to cut spending, now's their chance. But that means passing a package of spending cuts, which they may find less enjoyable than simply saying that Democrats should stop spending so much. And if the American people aren't supportive of the Republicans’ spending cuts, the GOP will be caught defending an unpopular package as part of a political gambit that could lead to the bankruptcy of the United State of America.

more at

Ezra Klein - Why Democrats don't want to tie the debt ceiling to the tax cuts



Oh and from your link-

In a largely symbolic vote, the clean hike failed 318-97.

Read more: Debt Ceiling: Clean Debt Ceiling Vote Fails 318-97


I guess the Republicans are not the only ones who send "worthless" bills that don't have a chance of passing up for a vote eh?

The poster wanted proof the Republicans voted down a debt ceiling bill. They did. The 'symbolism' of it was to demonstrate that the Republicans would NOT support a clean bill, which happens to be my original point, which happens support my claim that default will be ALL the fault of the GOP.

Having tied debt ceiling passage to their own set of demands, the GOP made debt ceiling passage conditional. Therefore they have created all by themselves the only reason the country could default.

That makes the GOP solely responsible.

false dilemma, you have constructed again, your own framework to make yourself right, so if they don't vote a clean bill, then we will default, fail.

what I provided you is a possible why we are here narrative, they knew they needed a debt limit increase way back in 2010, they purposely , with fore thought pushed it off for political advantage.

we spent 7 weeks very valuable weeks arguing over 38.5 billion dollars all along knowing we needed to raise the debt ceiling too....why didn't obama insist that the debt talks be rolled into that discussion as part of the 2011 budget process?

answer; as my link above by ezra klein ascribes, it was not politically advantageous, they felt they would have more weight if the debt talks pushed up against the drop dead date.....and here we are.

Tim Geithner today said on Fox Sunday with Chris Wallace that Obama's main concern was making sure the debt-ceiling debate was eliminated throughout the rest of his first term. He didn't say Obama was concerned about the economy or the debt. He just said Obama didn't want the problem surfacing again till after the election.

That sounds like a President that is merely interested in his re-election, not the economy.

 

[Lovebears65]

John Boehner walked out because Obama changed the deal minutes before it was going to be reached. So quit blaming the right when it was OBAMA who went back on his word.. Oh yeah he always does

 

[boedicca]

Geithner has developed into the Most Transparent member of the Obama Administration.

He also recently admitted that the debt ceiling needed to be raised to prevent government from shrinking.

 

[Trajan]

The poster wanted proof the Republicans voted down a debt ceiling bill. They did. The 'symbolism' of it was to demonstrate that the Republicans would NOT support a clean bill, which happens to be my original point, which happens support my claim that default will be ALL the fault of the GOP.

Having tied debt ceiling passage to their own set of demands, the GOP made debt ceiling passage conditional. Therefore they have created all by themselves the only reason the country could default.

That makes the GOP solely responsible.

false dilemma, you have constructed again, your own framework to make yourself right, so if they don't vote a clean bill, then we will default, fail.

what I provided you is a possible why we are here narrative, they knew they needed a debt limit increase way back in 2010, they purposely , with fore thought pushed it off for political advantage.

we spent 7 weeks very valuable weeks arguing over 38.5 billion dollars all along knowing we needed to raise the debt ceiling too....why didn't obama insist that the debt talks be rolled into that discussion as part of the 2011 budget process?

answer; as my link above by ezra klein ascribes, it was not politically advantageous, they felt they would have more weight if the debt talks pushed up against the drop dead date.....and here we are.

Tim Geithner today said on Fox Sunday with Chris Wallace that Obama's main concern was making sure the debt-ceiling debate was eliminated throughout the rest of his first term. He didn't say Obama was concerned about the economy or the debt. He just said Obama didn't want the problem surfacing again till after the election.

That sounds like a President that is merely interested in his re-election, not the economy.

yup. and he will make a last stand against a short term increase , but, I think it will fail. I think the house needs to pass a 2 trillion cut, 400 billion revenue bill with an increase in debt of only 1 trillion, and give it to the senate. call his bluff.....

 

[NYcarbineer]

unless you die at 65...or 67, then Tom, Tino Mangesh or carlo gets it, your wife or 'other' doesn't the gov. 'disappears' it...

You sure you understand how insurance works?

for god sakes....


actually no, I think I do; I know that when I die my life insurance policy I have pays my wife the benefit, outside anything she gets form anywhere else incl. her own SS........so go figure it out....or

That's because it's life insurance. SS is not life insurance. It's retirement insurance. Insurance pays you when you become eligible to collect. If you drop dead before you retire, you're not going to collect retirement insurance. Duh! If your house never burns down, you don't collect fire insurance benefits. If you never go to the doctor you don't get health insurance benefits.

Need I go on?

 

[NYcarbineer]

[Oh and from your link-

In a largely symbolic vote, the clean hike failed 318-97.

Read more: Debt Ceiling: Clean Debt Ceiling Vote Fails 318-97


I guess the Republicans are not the only ones who send "worthless" bills that don't have a chance of passing up for a vote eh?

That is an amusingly puzzling comment, since the bill was in fact introduced by REPUBLICAN Dave Camp, chairman of the House Ways and Means committee.

you made comments in past as to the rep.s for example sending the cut cap and trade bill up and knowing it was useless, that the senate would kill it, thats why I posted that.

you appear to forget the positions you take becasue, you change your positions so often to fit your own past comments so as to make yourself right in every context- epic fail.

Are you an asshole by nature or nurture?

 

[BDBoop]

Are you an asshole by nature or nurture?

Can't it be both (as it does appear).

 

[EriktheRed]

The Tea Party can succeed in 16 months by helping elect a president who will not veto necessary reforms. To achieve that, however, Tea Partyers must not help the incumbent achieve his objectives in the debt-ceiling dispute.

So could it be it's not really the offer but who is trying to make it?

Patience, Tea Partyers: Time is on your side - The Washington Post