'Bout 37 hours left.. Time to see how many folks are brain-washed

[Zhukov]

its as valid

Yeah, I think we agreed on that. But if all the people with these opinions are going to do is complain, I'm content to ignore them. Their words do not affect me.

might is clearly right for you,

That's the way the world is. If you are so insulated from the true ugliness of this world perhaps it's best if you leave decisions of policies to the people who have a realistic worldview. Might has always made right. You should be happy the might currently rests in responsible hands as opposed to the hands of a dictator or a politburo.

do you understand why other nations see this as a new imperialism.

Again, I said I understand their position, and I don't care. Besides, if they think our actions are imperialistic, their opinions are worse than irrelevant.

so they fired missiles at your planes

Wake up man.

you would have had international law on your side when you invaded

a.) we did, b.) it wouldn't have mattered if we didn't

preemption is not ok ever. the whole notion that one state can attack another based on percieved threats is madness and is open to all sorts of abuse

There you go again.

you know deep in your heart that violence causes violence.

Don't tell me what I know. I know if you kill a murderer, they'll never kill again.

when has a violent response ever solve a terrorist problem?

Everday since 9/11.

but regardless their sneak attack would be justified under the notion of a preemptive strike would it not?

As I already told you, they did not attack us because they feared an attack from us. They attacked us to give themselves a free hand in the Pacific.

 

[Redz]

So now you imply that we are to blame for terrorists attacks? Do you understand that Radical Islamists hate us simply because we exist, just as they hate Israel becasue its exists??? We did nothing to facilitate the attacks that occured on 9/11 or anything before or after..........That fact that you are suggesting we sit down and have coffee with these lunatics is beyond absurd!! THEY WANT TO WIPE US OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH...........Okay.... no amount of bargaining or capitulation is going to change that!!

they don't hate you because you exist, that is political propaganda designed to stifle debate about this issue. read bin ladens latest message for details

 

[Said1]

they don't hate you because you exist, that is political propaganda designed to stifle debate about this issue. read bin ladens latest message for details

Political spin designed by who?

 

[Redz]

That's the way the world is. If you are so insulated from the true ugliness of this world perhaps it's best if you leave decisions of policies to the people who have a realistic worldview. Might has always made right. You should be happy the might currently rests in responsible hands as opposed to the hands of a dictator or a politburo.
a.) we did, b.) it wouldn't have mattered if we didn't
Don't tell me what I know. I know if you kill a murderer, they'll never kill again
As I already told you, they did not attack us because they feared an attack from us. They attacked us to give themselves a free hand in the Pacific.

japanese thing: regardless of their motivations, their action would have been justified under the prinipal of preemptive action. the logical form of the argument is the same. i know you get this, your smart!!
i don't think the world is as shitty as you do, you think the U.S is responsible, well me and the rest of the world the U.S neo con polic is deluded
there was no U.N support in Iraq 2, so war was illegal or at least operated in legal grey area, like camp xray detaines.
kill their murderer and maybe their deluded son or brother kills you later, or maybe when you kill the murderer you kills 10000 or so innocent civilians, then it gets messy

 

[Redz]

How?

American and European markets are much different from Chinese. I don't see what you're getting at. The focus on developing agriculture never really helped China, might be why they want in on the free market game now.

aricultural tarriffs in developed countries crate artifically high prices there through production support, the dumping of excess production on developing nations decreses prices for them locally, and import tarriffs prevent access for them to our markets.
china agriculture was protected and it was collectivised, they want access to our markets for their manufactured goods now and don't care about agriculture now.
we should help poor countries to develop their agricultural sectors, as this is the foundation of their economy, but instead we damage theirs to subsidise farmers in the west.

 

[Zhukov]

japanese thing: regardless of their motivations, their action would have been justified under the prinipal of preemptive action. the logical form of the argument is the same. i know you get this,

You are seriously confused. Regardless of their motivations? It's all about their motivation. They wanted to knock out our Pacific fleet so they could enslave China and every Pacific island, slaughtering as many people as it took.

i don't think the world is as shitty as you do

You've made that abundantly clear.

you think the U.S is responsible, well me and the rest of the world the U.S neo con polic is deluded

Good for you. How many times must I explain to you that most of the people in this country don't give a damn what the rest of the world thinks?

so war was illegal or at least operated in legal grey area

In your opinion, the worth of which we've already discussed.

kill their murderer and maybe their deluded son or brother kills you later, or maybe when you kill the murderer you kills 10000 or so innocent civilians, then it gets messy

Sure, let's just let people murder each other, that'll stop people from murdering each other.....is that your argument. That's your best one yet.

 

[Redz]

Political spin designed by who?

spin put in place by those in power who would really like an endless war, as this has the handy side effect of making the general population much easier to control. look into the works of leo strauss if your interested, he was the original neo con, and he loved the way the cold war made the population fearful. google him.
look i'm not trying to say these terrorists are not evil, they are, but there reasons for attacking you are more complex than they hate you, or your freedoms. thats a dangerious over simplification made by spin doctors and propagdanists

 

[Zhukov]

we should help poor countries to develop their agricultural sectors, as this is the foundation of their economy, .

How rich. This from the consortium of nations that opposes giving poor African nations GM grain. Wonder why on Earth that could be.

 

[Redz]

You are seriously confused. Regardless of their motivations? It's all about their motivation.
Good for you. How many times must I explain to you that most of the people in this country don't give a damn what the rest of the world thinks?
In your opinion, the worth of which we've already discussed.
Sure, let's just let people murder each other, that'll stop people from murdering each other.....is that your argument. That's your best one yet.

look the argument i'm making about the japanese attack is about the logical similarities between that attack and the recent U.S attack on iraq, if for arguments sake their motivations were to premptive eliminate a potential U.S threat, then would the japanese attack have been justified in your opinion
if your nation does not give a damn then this is a big problem for you guys,one that won't go away and will get worse, we all live in this world and the americans are taking a big share of the worlds resources, its an unsustainable position.
you know i'm right about violence only making all this worse, it polarises people

 

[Said1]

aricultural tarriffs in developed countries crate artifically high prices there through production support, the dumping of excess production on developing nations decreses prices for them locally, and import tarriffs prevent access for them to our markets.

Excess procduction usually goes to them in the form of "food aid" and is doled out and priced as their leaders see fit. It might help if some of what is actually produced in these countries is used to feed them, but again, this is up to their leaders, not the developed world.

china agriculture was protected and it was collectivised, they want access to our markets for their manufactured goods now and don't care about agriculture now.

I was asking what China had to do with starving the third world.

we should help poor countries to develop their agricultural sectors, as this is the foundation of their economy, but instead we damage theirs to subsidise farmers in the west.

They are given plenty of resources to help themselves. Taking a closer look at the governmental infrasturcters of third world nations may help you understand what is going wrong and why.

 

[Redz]

How rich. This from the consortium of nations that opposes giving poor African nations GM grain. Wonder why on Earth that could be.

maybe cos G.M grain is a bit risky to actually put in the enviorment until we actual know what it does long term, oh wait its already planted, pity you guys didn't wait til after those interesting G.M trial results in the U.K, but the U.S envorment is probable doomed anyway.

 

[Said1]

spin put in place by those in power who would really like an endless war, as this has the handy side effect of making the general population much easier to control. look into the works of leo strauss if your interested, he was the original neo con, and he loved the way the cold war made the population fearful. google him.
look i'm not trying to say these terrorists are not evil, they are, but there reasons for attacking you are more complex than they hate you, or your freedoms. thats a dangerious over simplification made by spin doctors and propagdanists

I'm Canadian, we were not attacked. You are forgetting the propaganda fed to people of the middle east, it works both ways, spare me the history lesson.

 

[Said1]

maybe cos G.M grain is a bit risky to actually put in the enviorment until we actual know what it does long term, oh wait its already planted, pity you guys didn't wait til after those interesting G.M trial results in the U.K, but the U.S envorment is probable doomed anyway.

Unless you eat 100% organic food (and even the validaty of that is questionable, take honey for instance.....) everything you put in your mouth has been genetically modified one way or another.

 

[Redz]

look its not all down to the leaders, its a complex interaction between them and us economically .said 1 i'm tired, its late over here and i'm having a lot of arguements tonight, would love to have an economic debate soon tho, you post the thread,

 

[Zhukov]

look the argument i'm making about the japanese attack is about the logical similarities between that attack and the recent U.S attack on iraq, if for arguments sake their motivations were to premptive eliminate a potential U.S threat, then would the japanese attack have been justified in your opinion

Read carefully, because this is the last time I'm going to try to explain it to you: If we wanted to conquer Mexico but feared Canadian intervention if we should try, it would not be ok to nuke Canada. The Japanese did not fear the power of the United States because they were minding their own business, they feared it because they knew we'd have a problem with them trying to conquer Asia.

if your nation does not give a damn then this is a big problem for you guys,one that won't go away and will get worse, we all live in this world and the americans are taking a big share of the worlds resources, its an unsustainable position.

Do something about it. The world can't even stand up to Hussein, some two bit thug. You think we're a worried about you? It's your problem, so you'd better start playing ball because there are only so many seats at this table.

you know i'm right about violence only making all this worse, it polarises people

No, you're wrong.

 

[Said1]

look its not all down to the leaders, its a complex interaction between them and us economically .said 1 i'm tired, its late over here and i'm having a lot of arguements tonight, would love to have an economic debate soon tho, you post the thread,

No problem, I'm a geography major, whenever you're ready.

 

[Zhukov]

maybe cos G.M grain is a bit risky to actually put in the enviorment until we actual know what it does long term,

Hahaha. I won't even bother trying to educate about the merits and safety of genetically modified foods (foods you've undoutedly been eating unknowingly for years without ill effect). After your exhaustive demonstration concerning your ignorance of geopolitics I would be quite foolish to think I could explain genetics to you.

 

[Redz]

I'm Canadian, we were not attacked. You are forgetting the propaganda fed to people of the middle east, it works both ways, spare me the history lesson.

yes they have propaganda as well, and there less educated than canadians anyway. history lesson to provide some proof that i'm not toally crazy thats all, just google him!
china is an example of a successful economy at the moment, so will be used as an example for devloping nations. it had a protectionist agricultural sector and is doing well. yes how these countries are run is a major part of the problem but so are our policies in the west and least we can do something about our policies over here. i suppose we could invade them all, but maybe not

 

[JohnGalt]

phadras
there is no such thing as facts and truth in the modern world,there is too much information for us to deal with. you just have to critically examine the sources of your information and what their interests are. i'm not sure i know any truths about the middle east except its one big mess. how are you so sure of your facts? ever been wrong before?

Fact: When I turn on the light, I can see.
Fact: Depach Chopra is a pussy.
Fact: Lumberjacks are 100% man.
Fact: No truly sane person could write the above quote without giggling like a little girl because she just took a shit on the basics of logic and life.
Fact: MacGuyver kicks ass.
Fact: Camping is better with bug spray.
Fact: Fat kids love cake.
Fact: When one masturbates using gaseline and anti-freeze as a lubricant, one ends up saying that there is no such thing as facts.

 

[Redz]

Hahaha. I won't even bother trying to educate about the merits and safety of genetically modified foods (foods you've undoutedly been eating unknowingly for years without ill effect). After your exhaustive demonstration concerning your ignorance of geopolitics I would be quite foolish to think I could explain genetics to you.

yes i am ignorant in a lot ways,but those G.M trial in U.K say it all for me. google them!