Church Vs. State

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Personal faith can be a fine thing that gets us through the bad times and provide us with a social circle of like minded friends but that is not the issue here. The kind of political religion that the Christian right espouses is a kind of secular control that Americans have spent our history rejecting. It's not freedom of religion because it is openly hostile to other faiths and even some denominations of Christianity. It's not freedom because the religious right has a list as long as your arm of things they would ban if only they were given a moral veto on our daily lives. It would be like living in an absolute theocracy run by crazy cat ladies.

What part of the ten commandments are a detriment to your life in this country ??

The problem is most on the Christian right fail to abide by their commandments.

As already correctly noted: no one takes issue with personal expressions of religion, participation in religious rituals, or religious entities functioning as private organizations.

The conflict manifests when the religious right and social conservatives seek to codify their religious dogma into secular law all must obey, in violation of the First Amendment.

The notion of the church ‘verses’ the state is a political aberration the consequence of the Christian right’s arrogance, fear, and contempt for diversity and dissent.

The Framers’ mandate that church and state remain separate was intended to prevent this aberration by safeguarding the religious liberty of citizens from unwarranted interference by the state.

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment afforded citizens the right to be free from religious arrogance and discrimination propagated by the state; where most on the Christian right have nothing but contempt for the wisdom of Establishment Clause jurisprudence.

Last, the notion that ‘Christian tradition’ is responsible for the success of our Constitutional Republic is as arrogant as it is ridiculous and wrong – it’s the sort of Christian arrogance and idiocy the Framers sought to prevent when they conceived of the Establishment Clause and its case law.

 

[Oddball]

^^^^^
Case in point.

Can't have a separation between church and State when your church is The State.

 

[beagle9]

The United States Constitution.

Article VI
but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Article VI guaranteed that governance of this country was not limited to Christians, and it was acknowledged at the time that Article VI allowed Jews, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, etc to hold Federal office.

Amendment I is what Jefferson was referring to when he said “this building a wall of separation between Church & State:” that no religion would dominate the government, and that the government would not tell people which religious beliefs were allowed or favor any religious beliefs over others.

And then in Everson v Board of Education of Ewing Township, the SCOTUS ruled that the establishment clause applied to the states via Amendment XIV, ruling that including parochial schools in reimbursing public transportation fares for school children was NOT a violation of the first amendment.

So, which specific parts of the Constitution are you objecting to?
Article VI which allows those of any or no religious belief to hold office?
Amendment I which forbids religious dominance or favoritism?
Or Amendment XIX, which incorporates most of the Bill of Rights, applying them to state and local governments?

I would appreciate (but I do not anticipate) specific legal arguments, not vague rhetorical claims.

Article VI
but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Have to keep these writing's in context of the period they were written in, where as Christianity was already established in the hearts and minds of the majority of American's, so of course no religious test was nessesary or needed in order to qualify a citizen to any office or public trust under the United States in which these things were already established. Otherwise it was not a ban on religious beliefs, but more so it was a protection of the beliefs that the person held where as a test to find such a thing out was not acceptable to conduct in order to ban for example a Christian from holding that office.

Let's surmise that the founders knew that one day our government would attempt to become anti-religious and/or looking back to that period now from our current positions today - that the government would specifically become anti-christian in it's thinking (i.e.when looking forward from their positions upon writing the words spoken in article VI.)

It explains very much so that a religious test in order to reveal the person's Christian belief in order to keep that Christian out of government would not be allowed to be conducted.

An amendment wasn't necessary, but due possibly to the mis-interpretation of the original article, an amendment was added. Now if the added amendment changed the meaning of the original article as was written, then the original article should be honored as was written where as no amendment was nessesary.

I am going to stand on the grounds that our founding fathers were religious, and they were also Christian's in their hearts and minds (no religious test nessesary), and their writing's were infact to protect those beliefs instead of to ban those beliefs.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The United States Constitution.

Article VI
but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Article VI guaranteed that governance of this country was not limited to Christians, and it was acknowledged at the time that Article VI allowed Jews, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, etc to hold Federal office.

Amendment I is what Jefferson was referring to when he said “this building a wall of separation between Church & State:” that no religion would dominate the government, and that the government would not tell people which religious beliefs were allowed or favor any religious beliefs over others.

And then in Everson v Board of Education of Ewing Township, the SCOTUS ruled that the establishment clause applied to the states via Amendment XIV, ruling that including parochial schools in reimbursing public transportation fares for school children was NOT a violation of the first amendment.

So, which specific parts of the Constitution are you objecting to?
Article VI which allows those of any or no religious belief to hold office?
Amendment I which forbids religious dominance or favoritism?
Or Amendment XIX, which incorporates most of the Bill of Rights, applying them to state and local governments?

I would appreciate (but I do not anticipate) specific legal arguments, not vague rhetorical claims.

Now....focus like a laser, junior

What does this have to do with anything in the thread?

Was your thread not about Separation of Church and State?

If this is your attempt to support Leftist, atheism or anti-Americanism.....you've failed miserably.

You were objecting to the concept of Church State separation.

The concept of this separation was specifically based on the Establishment Clause, but reasonably also can refer to Article VI and the Free Exercise Clause If the 1A, and the incorporation If the establishment and free exercise clauses by Amendment XIV.

Therefore, if you object to the concept of Church State Separation you must also object to the laws that establish the Walk of Separation.

Is that simple enough for you?

There never was any basis for separating our founding based on the Judeo-Christian concepts and faith from governance.


It was presented to allow Babeuf's and Marx's and Hegel's view of the primacy of government over the God-given rights of the individual.


Free exercise of any or no religion has nothing....nothing.....to do with the bogus restrictions of separation of church and state.

Is that simple enough for you?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Personal faith can be a fine thing that gets us through the bad times and provide us with a social circle of like minded friends but that is not the issue here. The kind of political religion that the Christian right espouses is a kind of secular control that Americans have spent our history rejecting. It's not freedom of religion because it is openly hostile to other faiths and even some denominations of Christianity. It's not freedom because the religious right has a list as long as your arm of things they would ban if only they were given a moral veto on our daily lives. It would be like living in an absolute theocracy run by crazy cat ladies.

What part of the ten commandments are a detriment to your life in this country ??

The problem is most on the Christian right fail to abide by their commandments.

As already correctly noted: no one takes issue with personal expressions of religion, participation in religious rituals, or religious entities functioning as private organizations.

The conflict manifests when the religious right and social conservatives seek to codify their religious dogma into secular law all must obey, in violation of the First Amendment.

The notion of the church ‘verses’ the state is a political aberration the consequence of the Christian right’s arrogance, fear, and contempt for diversity and dissent.

The Framers’ mandate that church and state remain separate was intended to prevent this aberration by safeguarding the religious liberty of citizens from unwarranted interference by the state.

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment afforded citizens the right to be free from religious arrogance and discrimination propagated by the state; where most on the Christian right have nothing but contempt for the wisdom of Establishment Clause jurisprudence.

Last, the notion that ‘Christian tradition’ is responsible for the success of our Constitutional Republic is as arrogant as it is ridiculous and wrong – it’s the sort of Christian arrogance and idiocy the Framers sought to prevent when they conceived of the Establishment Clause and its case law.

"... the notion that ‘Christian tradition’ is responsible for the success of our Constitutional Republic is as arrogant as it is ridiculous and wrong – it’s the sort of Christian arrogance and idiocy the Framers sought to prevent when they conceived of the Establishment Clause and its case law."


Well, C_Chamber_Pot.....I'm pleased that I've irritated you enough that you actually tried to present an alternative view.

Representative of you side.....just wrong.



It appears, of the myriad of issues of which you are unaware, your lack of understanding of our government as based on the Judeo-Christian faith is high on the list.

There are four references to the Divine in the Declaration of Independence

The Constitution provides for an observance of the Sabbath in its Presentment Clause, mandating that the President has ten days, excluding Sundays, to veto a bill lest it become binding.

And the instrument was framed with a view to the Declaration, which unequivocally bestows gratitude on the God of the Bible for America's independence.

The most quoted source was the Bible. Portions of the Constitution are based on the Bible

There is a reference to Jesus Christ in the Constitution.







Care to try again?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Personal faith can be a fine thing that gets us through the bad times and provide us with a social circle of like minded friends but that is not the issue here. The kind of political religion that the Christian right espouses is a kind of secular control that Americans have spent our history rejecting. It's not freedom of religion because it is openly hostile to other faiths and even some denominations of Christianity. It's not freedom because the religious right has a list as long as your arm of things they would ban if only they were given a moral veto on our daily lives. It would be like living in an absolute theocracy run by crazy cat ladies.

What part of the ten commandments are a detriment to your life in this country ??

The five commandments that demand a devotion to God above all else have no place in a secular society. It's those that made the ancient Hebrew temple the ultimate secular authority and the kind of murderous theocracy that we claim to hate. If it is your thing consult the bible for how to live your life but it sucks as a guide to how to lead a modern western country.

"....the kind of murderous theocracy...."


That would be the murderous theocracy of socialism, Marxism, communism, Progressivism.......responsible for over 100 million slaughtered in their name.


"We must rid ourselves once and for all of the Quaker-Papist babble about the sanctity of human life."
Leon Trotsky

"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."
Joseph Stalin

"In this particular idea of the Enlightenment, the need to change human nature, and to eliminate customs and traditions, to remake established institutions, to do away with all inequalities in order to bring man closer to the state, which was the expression of the general will."
Talmon, “Origins of Totalitarian Democracy,” p. 3-7




So....they didn't teach you anything in government school????



Bet some kind adult will help you get a library card.



You do know what a 'book' is.....don't you?

 

[beagle9]

And now for a perfect topic for this Sunday......a word from our Sponsor.


Or…Traditional vs Secular…..or conservative vs Liberal…or American vs Bolshevik

If you went to government school, you were steeped in the latter of each phrase. You were deprived of real history of this nation, and of Western Civilization. But, like Mighty Mouse, here I am to save the day.




1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro

The Church and State issue is just a ploy to remove Christianity and insert Islam into our schools.

To inject Islam or anyother anti-American or anti-American religious sect into our government body, where as it would then take hold to the power of that government body in order to destroy the very founding of this country along with it's early beliefs that have existed to this very day. Shall we reference the "Trojan Horse" effect ?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Funny to hear one of the dolts refer to a 'murderous theocracy' and fail to recognize that that was the start of Leftist, socialism, communism, Progressivism.....


Let's fill in some of those lacunae.....




7. The campaign to remove the Judeo-Christian basis of Western Civilization began nearly a century and a half before KKKer Hugo Black was put on the Supreme Court by Leftist Franklin Roosevelt.


Since the 18th century there has been a push to end recourse to religion and morality, claiming that would bring freedom. Instead, it has brought slaughter and massacre.




8. “…advocates for the so-called Enlightenment….suggest that the philosophy of the modern West- the philosophy of individual rights in particular- sprang from rejection of religion and embrace of reason.” Ben Shapiro, “The Right Side Of History,” p.98
Of course, the very opposite is true: inalienable individual rights are God-given, and not the prerogative of government.



9.“If the French revolution was the end of monarchy and aristocratic privilege and the emergence of the common man and democratic rights, it was also the beginnings of modern totalitarian government and large-scale executions of "enemies of the People" by impersonal government entities (Robespierre's "Committee of Public Safety"). This legacy would not reach its fullest bloom until the tragic arrival of the German Nazis and Soviet and Chinese communists of the 20th century.

In fact, Rousseau has been called the precursor of the modern pseudo-democrats such as Stalin and Hitler and the "people's democracies." French Revolution - Robespierre, and the Legacy of the Reign of Terror

 

[PoliticalChic]

Which doesn't belong:

Stalin
Hitler
Marx
Franklin Roosevelt




Just kiddin'......they all belong: peas in a pod.

 

[The Original Tree]

Meanwhile The Religion of Peace who does not believe in separation of church and state murdered 200 people attending Easter Services today.

Lefty will still continue to defend Islam.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Meanwhile The Religion of Peace who does not believe in separation of church and state murdered 200 people attending Easter Services today.

Lefty will still continue to defend Islam.

Well....that is a sort of separation......maybe heads from bodies.....

 

[PoliticalChic]

And now for a perfect topic for this Sunday......a word from our Sponsor.


Or…Traditional vs Secular…..or conservative vs Liberal…or American vs Bolshevik

If you went to government school, you were steeped in the latter of each phrase. You were deprived of real history of this nation, and of Western Civilization. But, like Mighty Mouse, here I am to save the day.




1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro

The Church and State issue is just a ploy to remove Christianity and insert Islam into our schools.

To inject Islam or anyother anti-American or anti-American religious sect into our government body, where as it would then take hold to the power of that government body in order to destroy the very founding of this country along with it's early beliefs that have existed to this very day. Shall we reference the "Trojan Horse" effect ?

Lest any imagine that all religions are the same, Leviticus 19:34
34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.



Compared to this: “New York Mufti says, Muslims cannot integrate: ‘Muslims should hate non-Muslims’ “The general principle… is to love and to hate for the sake of Allah,” New York Mufti says, Muslims cannot integrate: 'Muslims should hate non-Muslims' · Caldron Pool



The difference between what produce Western civilization…and some other.

 

[mudwhistle]

And now for a perfect topic for this Sunday......a word from our Sponsor.


Or…Traditional vs Secular…..or conservative vs Liberal…or American vs Bolshevik

If you went to government school, you were steeped in the latter of each phrase. You were deprived of real history of this nation, and of Western Civilization. But, like Mighty Mouse, here I am to save the day.




1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro

The Church and State issue is just a ploy to remove Christianity and insert Islam into our schools.

To inject Islam or anyother anti-American or anti-American religious sect into our government body, where as it would then take hold to the power of that government body in order to destroy the very founding of this country along with it's early beliefs that have existed to this very day. Shall we reference the "Trojan Horse" effect ?

Which is why they're allowed to place radical Muslims on the ballot. First they flooded isolated districts with foreigners from ME countries.....then they ran radical Muslims for office. Now some of them have taken office and are spouting Sharia Law and hatred for Christians, Jews, and America.

In CA they are allowed to teach kids to wear Hijabs and how to pray like a Muslim.

 

[mudwhistle]

Meanwhile The Religion of Peace who does not believe in separation of church and state murdered 200 people attending Easter Services today.

Lefty will still continue to defend Islam.

WOW!!!! All they're talking about today is the Mueller Report.
Who cares that a bunch of Bible Bangers got snuffed, right?

 

[pinqy]

The United States Constitution.

Article VI
but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Article VI guaranteed that governance of this country was not limited to Christians, and it was acknowledged at the time that Article VI allowed Jews, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, etc to hold Federal office.

Amendment I is what Jefferson was referring to when he said “this building a wall of separation between Church & State:” that no religion would dominate the government, and that the government would not tell people which religious beliefs were allowed or favor any religious beliefs over others.

And then in Everson v Board of Education of Ewing Township, the SCOTUS ruled that the establishment clause applied to the states via Amendment XIV, ruling that including parochial schools in reimbursing public transportation fares for school children was NOT a violation of the first amendment.

So, which specific parts of the Constitution are you objecting to?
Article VI which allows those of any or no religious belief to hold office?
Amendment I which forbids religious dominance or favoritism?
Or Amendment XIX, which incorporates most of the Bill of Rights, applying them to state and local governments?

I would appreciate (but I do not anticipate) specific legal arguments, not vague rhetorical claims.

Article VI
but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Have to keep these writing's in context of the period they were written in, where as Christianity was already established in the hearts and minds of the majority of American's, so of course no religious test was nessesary or needed in order to qualify a citizen to any office or public trust under the United States in which these things were already established.

Then why did many of the states have religious tests? Some required only Protestants, Some excluded Jews an atheists only. And the lack of any religious test was hotly debated.

Otherwise it was not a ban on religious beliefs, but more so it was a protection of the beliefs that the person held where as a test to find such a thing out was not acceptable to conduct in order to ban for example a Christian from holding that office.

Who said lack of religious tests was a ban on beliefs? That’s what religious tests did: ban Catholics, Jews, atheists, Muslims, on the grounds of (Protestant) Christian Heritage.

And yes, it was explicitly acknowledged that no religious test meant non-Christians were eligible for office.

 

[pinqy]

The United States Constitution.

Article VI
but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Article VI guaranteed that governance of this country was not limited to Christians, and it was acknowledged at the time that Article VI allowed Jews, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, etc to hold Federal office.

Amendment I is what Jefferson was referring to when he said “this building a wall of separation between Church & State:” that no religion would dominate the government, and that the government would not tell people which religious beliefs were allowed or favor any religious beliefs over others.

And then in Everson v Board of Education of Ewing Township, the SCOTUS ruled that the establishment clause applied to the states via Amendment XIV, ruling that including parochial schools in reimbursing public transportation fares for school children was NOT a violation of the first amendment.

So, which specific parts of the Constitution are you objecting to?
Article VI which allows those of any or no religious belief to hold office?
Amendment I which forbids religious dominance or favoritism?
Or Amendment XIX, which incorporates most of the Bill of Rights, applying them to state and local governments?

I would appreciate (but I do not anticipate) specific legal arguments, not vague rhetorical claims.

Now....focus like a laser, junior

What does this have to do with anything in the thread?

Was your thread not about Separation of Church and State?

If this is your attempt to support Leftist, atheism or anti-Americanism.....you've failed miserably.

You were objecting to the concept of Church State separation.

The concept of this separation was specifically based on the Establishment Clause, but reasonably also can refer to Article VI and the Free Exercise Clause If the 1A, and the incorporation If the establishment and free exercise clauses by Amendment XIV.

Therefore, if you object to the concept of Church State Separation you must also object to the laws that establish the Walk of Separation.

Is that simple enough for you?

There never was any basis for separating our founding based on the Judeo-Christian concepts and faith from governance.


It was presented to allow Babeuf's and Marx's and Hegel's view of the primacy of government over the God-given rights of the individual.


Free exercise of any or no religion has nothing....nothing.....to do with the bogus restrictions of separation of church and state.

Is that simple enough for you?

Too simple, and vague, as I expected.
Let’s try again:
Do you agree that there should be no religious requirement for office? That Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, Wiccans, etc, should all be equally eligible for office?

Do you agree that the government should not favor or support any religion (or group of religions) over any other?

Do you agree that no one should be required, pressured, or encouraged to attend any religious observation or ceremony?

Do you agree that all people have the equal right to express their religion?

Do you agree that majority opinion should have no role in any expression of religion?


And last, an observation from James Madison: “Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?”

 

[beagle9]

Meanwhile The Religion of Peace who does not believe in separation of church and state murdered 200 people attending Easter Services today.

Lefty will still continue to defend Islam.

WOW!!!! All they're talking about today is the Mueller Report.
Who cares that a bunch of Bible Bangers got snuffed, right?

The war that has been going on for centuries involving the compatible religion's or religious groups in the world (that do get along), over that which is Islam(?) because it hates those compatible religion's, and hates their getting along in which now see's the war front being brought into America, should cause American's to take pause.

American's should view such wars as to be totally unexceptable when hosting these religion's for whom are supposed to be compatible with each other, but unfortunately are not.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The United States Constitution.

Article VI
but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Article VI guaranteed that governance of this country was not limited to Christians, and it was acknowledged at the time that Article VI allowed Jews, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, etc to hold Federal office.

Amendment I is what Jefferson was referring to when he said “this building a wall of separation between Church & State:” that no religion would dominate the government, and that the government would not tell people which religious beliefs were allowed or favor any religious beliefs over others.

And then in Everson v Board of Education of Ewing Township, the SCOTUS ruled that the establishment clause applied to the states via Amendment XIV, ruling that including parochial schools in reimbursing public transportation fares for school children was NOT a violation of the first amendment.

So, which specific parts of the Constitution are you objecting to?
Article VI which allows those of any or no religious belief to hold office?
Amendment I which forbids religious dominance or favoritism?
Or Amendment XIX, which incorporates most of the Bill of Rights, applying them to state and local governments?

I would appreciate (but I do not anticipate) specific legal arguments, not vague rhetorical claims.

Now....focus like a laser, junior

What does this have to do with anything in the thread?

Was your thread not about Separation of Church and State?

If this is your attempt to support Leftist, atheism or anti-Americanism.....you've failed miserably.

You were objecting to the concept of Church State separation.

The concept of this separation was specifically based on the Establishment Clause, but reasonably also can refer to Article VI and the Free Exercise Clause If the 1A, and the incorporation If the establishment and free exercise clauses by Amendment XIV.

Therefore, if you object to the concept of Church State Separation you must also object to the laws that establish the Walk of Separation.

Is that simple enough for you?

There never was any basis for separating our founding based on the Judeo-Christian concepts and faith from governance.


It was presented to allow Babeuf's and Marx's and Hegel's view of the primacy of government over the God-given rights of the individual.


Free exercise of any or no religion has nothing....nothing.....to do with the bogus restrictions of separation of church and state.

Is that simple enough for you?

Too simple, and vague, as I expected.
Let’s try again:
Do you agree that there should be no religious requirement for office? That Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, Wiccans, etc, should all be equally eligible for office?

Do you agree that the government should not favor or support any religion (or group of religions) over any other?

Do you agree that no one should be required, pressured, or encouraged to attend any religious observation or ceremony?

Do you agree that all people have the equal right to express their religion?

Do you agree that majority opinion should have no role in any expression of religion?


And last, an observation from James Madison: “Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?”

Read it again, or have someone help you read it....and see if you find any religious requirement for office.


1.The battle cry of the Left…”separation of church and state.” Why? Truth is, America was founded based on the Judeo-Christian faith, the Bible being the most quoted source by our Founders. And those Founders were religious folks who saw America escaping the king as the extension of the Jews escaping Egypt.

The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” http://www.davidlimbaugh.com/mt/archives/2010/02/new_column_libe_4.html

They were believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known by Leftists today, “an extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”
Oh.....a "white" extremist Fundamentalist hate group.”



2. The fact is that as part of Western Civilization, we owe our origins to a particular combination of these doctrines: God created every human in His image and human beings are able to investigate and make rational conclusions about the world. These two ideas were born in Jerusalem and Athens, respectively.
[Ben Shapiro]

To claim that America was not created with these ideas is a terrible lie, a scheme to cheat generations of Americans who believe what government school tells them.
Nor is it an accident….it is the plan.

“Once abolish the God and the government becomes the God.” G.K. Chesterton





3. Nor is it a coincidence that the acolyte of Joseph Stalin, that would be Franklin Roosevelt, as his first Supreme Court nominee, chose KKKer Hugo Black, who wrote into jurisprudence, the infamous ‘separation of church and state’ lie. Perhaps Black never saw the motto on the back of the Great Seal…

annuit coeptis Latin. He (God) has favored our undertakings.
It is the motto, adapted from the Aeneid (IX.625), that appears
on the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States.





4. But, why subvert the faith on which this country was built?
Answer: To replace our inheritance, Genesis 1:26, individualism, with the collective.

"The abandonment of the Christian tradition that created the West's most cherished ideal [with] a radical secularism evident in Europe's indifference to God and church- created a vacuum of belief into which many pseudo-religions have poured: scientism, fascism, communism, environmentalism, multiculturalism, sheer hedonism [and Islam] - all have attempted and failed....to provide Europeans with an alternative to Christianity that can show them what is worth living and dying for."
From "Decline and Fall: Europe's Slow-Motion Suicide," by Bruce Thornton


“…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro





Any such reference?


No?


So....why did you pretend there was?

 

[beagle9]

The United States Constitution.

Article VI
but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Article VI guaranteed that governance of this country was not limited to Christians, and it was acknowledged at the time that Article VI allowed Jews, Muslims, atheists, Hindus, etc to hold Federal office.

Amendment I is what Jefferson was referring to when he said “this building a wall of separation between Church & State:” that no religion would dominate the government, and that the government would not tell people which religious beliefs were allowed or favor any religious beliefs over others.

And then in Everson v Board of Education of Ewing Township, the SCOTUS ruled that the establishment clause applied to the states via Amendment XIV, ruling that including parochial schools in reimbursing public transportation fares for school children was NOT a violation of the first amendment.

So, which specific parts of the Constitution are you objecting to?
Article VI which allows those of any or no religious belief to hold office?
Amendment I which forbids religious dominance or favoritism?
Or Amendment XIX, which incorporates most of the Bill of Rights, applying them to state and local governments?

I would appreciate (but I do not anticipate) specific legal arguments, not vague rhetorical claims.

Now....focus like a laser, junior

What does this have to do with anything in the thread?

Was your thread not about Separation of Church and State?

If this is your attempt to support Leftist, atheism or anti-Americanism.....you've failed miserably.

You were objecting to the concept of Church State separation.

The concept of this separation was specifically based on the Establishment Clause, but reasonably also can refer to Article VI and the Free Exercise Clause If the 1A, and the incorporation If the establishment and free exercise clauses by Amendment XIV.

Therefore, if you object to the concept of Church State Separation you must also object to the laws that establish the Walk of Separation.

Is that simple enough for you?

There never was any basis for separating our founding based on the Judeo-Christian concepts and faith from governance.


It was presented to allow Babeuf's and Marx's and Hegel's view of the primacy of government over the God-given rights of the individual.


Free exercise of any or no religion has nothing....nothing.....to do with the bogus restrictions of separation of church and state.

Is that simple enough for you?

Too simple, and vague, as I expected.
Let’s try again:
Do you agree that there should be no religious requirement for office? That Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, Wiccans, etc, should all be equally eligible for office?

Do you agree that the government should not favor or support any religion (or group of religions) over any other?

Do you agree that no one should be required, pressured, or encouraged to attend any religious observation or ceremony?

Do you agree that all people have the equal right to express their religion?

Do you agree that majority opinion should have no role in any expression of religion?


And last, an observation from James Madison: “Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?”

Being that your interpretation of the article VI of our constitution is wrong, it makes all of your attempted points above mute.

Your highlighted part involves the non-discrimination of any religion's that are peaceful, and see God (the same God) as the head of their religious beliefs in which makes them compatible to that of our American culture in which had been formed with the Gospels as our guiding light, and in which had been established in our hearts, within our mind's, and has of course the same God of peace set in stone upon that forming in which we accepted from the beginning.

Of course we are to discriminate against any form of belief that endangers or is hostile towards our American beliefs in which includes our religious beliefs that we had brought with us on day one of our establishing of this nation.... Especially with such beliefs still intact. There is no separating us from our religious beliefs, our God or our country in which we have established so long ago. The attempt to do so is an attempt to seize this nation by any means nessesary, and that is unexceptable to the majority of American's to this very day I do believe.

 

[PoliticalChic]

10. Conservatives believe that custom and tradition result in individuals living in peace. Law is custom and precedent. Liberals are destroyers of custom and convention. To a conservative, change should be gradual, as the new society is often inferior to the old. We build on the ideas and experience of our ancestors. The species is wiser than the individual (Burke).

And yet, that is the aim of Leftism....to destroy tradition, religion, and even the family.
The Liberals/Democrats aim is to abolish religion and morality from the public arena.

We see that played out during the French Revolution, when priests were killed and Notre Dame “became the stage for a packed public event in which a seductively dressed actress portraying the Goddess of Reason was worshiped atop a mountain. Enlightenment philosophers’ busts and statues of the Liberty replaced religious statues, and seductively dressed women danced and sang songs extolling the revolution. The centuries-old cathedral was renamed the Temple of Reason.” https://www.history.com/news/notre-dame-fire-french-revolution


How has that worked out in the past?


“Has any reform been more futile? The Government’s arrogant discard of Christianity means that weeks have been extended to ten days instead of seven. The revision’s intent is to supplant the papal calendar with a uniform alternative of twelve months of thirty days each, based on the system of ancient Egypt. Bibles themselves were torn up to make paper gun cartridges in the grim days of 1793, and now the biblical week has been guillotined, each month instead divided into three decades of ten days, with the year, with the year beginning at the autumn equinox and five to six holidays added to balance idealism with our solar orbit. Not content with regimenting the calendar, the government has introduced a new metric system for weight and measure. There are even proposals for a new clock of precisely 100,000 seconds each day. Reason, reason!...The new calendar is the kind of logical idea imposed by clever people that completely ignores habit, emotion, and human nature and thus forecasts the Revolution’s doom.” From the novel “Napoleon’ Pyramids,” by William Dietrich


And today’s revolution has men becoming women, and socialism replacing capitalism.