Desperate liberals still trying to pretend waterboarding and sleep deprivation is "torture"

[LoneLaugher]

You've spent this whole thread doubting the truth of the report, and now you say it's "inarguably" true.

I doubt that parts of that report were reported truthfully. But now that I have both reports in my hands, I am going to go through them now.

To say no torture took place at all, however is rather disingenuous. That part is undoubtedly true. But from my vantage point, I have no reason (as of the moment) to believe that either of the reports were reported accurately.

I wonder.......are you currently using a source of any kind to help you work through the report? Be honest. Who is interpreting it for you?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Waterboarding and sleep depravation are torture.

Repeating that they're not, over and over, doesn't make it true.

Saying "Waterboarding and sleep deprivation are torture" over and over doesn't make it true. Those men were terrorists. They gave not a second thought to the lives they took. They didn't consider the most humane way possible hurt or kill their victims, they just did it. They deserved whatever they got.

No one denies they are monsters but there is no need for America to be monstrous to fight them. We have the strength and power to do this without becoming what we condemn our enemies for.

Well we know liberal tactics, just kill them with no trial. Those drone attacks has killed thousands of innocent people.

Oh look! It's a plane! It's a drone! It's a deflection!

So no drones has killed?

Different subject. Start a new thread.

Take some English composition classes first, please.

 

[jknowgood]

Saying "Waterboarding and sleep deprivation are torture" over and over doesn't make it true. Those men were terrorists. They gave not a second thought to the lives they took. They didn't consider the most humane way possible hurt or kill their victims, they just did it. They deserved whatever they got.

No one denies they are monsters but there is no need for America to be monstrous to fight them. We have the strength and power to do this without becoming what we condemn our enemies for.

Well we know liberal tactics, just kill them with no trial. Those drone attacks has killed thousands of innocent people.

Oh look! It's a plane! It's a drone! It's a deflection!

So no drones has killed?

Different subject. Start a new thread.

Take some English composition classes first, please.

No it isn't, their terrorist which under Bush would've went to gitmo. Obama is just killing them without a trial. Oh, don't get me wrong, this is one thing I support Obama on. Your just a hypocrite. Bush water boarded, Obama puts them in boards six feet under.

 

[Camp]

I see there's been a resurgence of the old, tired lie by the usual leftist fanatics, that the waterboarding and sleep deprivation our interrogators used on terrorist prisoners, was "torture".

Apparently enough time has gone by since this fib was refuted, that the liberals think they can start reciting it again as though it were true, without people remembering.

So, once again: Torture causes pain, damage, disfigurement, and even death. Some countries put people on racks and stretch their joints until they tear apart, Others put red-hot irons to people's arms, faces, or feet. Still others cut off fingers or toes one at a time.

Waterboarding, OTOH, is just putting someone flat on a board and pouring water into his mouth and nose. It's uncomfortable and even painful and can create fear of drowning. But no one drowns, and as soon as the water stops and the guy coughs it out of his mouth and nose, he's fine again within minutes.

Paying your taxes is painful, too, and can create fear of drowning (in debt) without end. And unlike waterboarding, it goes on forever, and comes back year after year. And paying taxes can cause as much sleep deprivation as our interrogators ever did, again continuing for months instead of a few days. I'd wager that a lot of American would prefer waterboarding on April 15 over paying taxes, if they could save the one-quarter of their pay that government takes in income taxes, excises, sales taxes etc. that keep nibbling away at everything they own without end.

"Waterboarding is torture" only to people who have never thought much about what torture really is... or even what waterboarding is.

No, wrong as usual. Water boarding is a war crime. That's why Japanese officers were hanged for doing exactly that.

Link?

Don't have a link about Japanese officers being hanged, but here are some about Japanese getting 15 year prison sentences for water boarding.

historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=yukio_asano_1

public-access-project.org/asano_case.pdf

lawofwar.org/Water_Torture_Article.htm

 

[TemplarKormac]

For your reading pleasure:

The report issued by Fienstien

Report on CIA Interrogation and Detention

And the minority report issued by Saxby Chambliss:

http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy3.pdf

 

[LoneLaugher]

No one denies they are monsters but there is no need for America to be monstrous to fight them. We have the strength and power to do this without becoming what we condemn our enemies for.

Well we know liberal tactics, just kill them with no trial. Those drone attacks has killed thousands of innocent people.

Oh look! It's a plane! It's a drone! It's a deflection!

So no drones has killed?

Different subject. Start a new thread.

Take some English composition classes first, please.

No it isn't, their terrorist which under Bush would've went to gitmo. Obama is just killing them without a trial. Oh, don't get me wrong, this is one thing I support Obama on. Your just a hypocrite. Bush water boarded, Obama puts them in boards six feet under.

Let me put it in a way you can understand.

It a differnt subjekt. The terrorist that you our talkin abowt are knot them that have been ever taking prisoner by our men. Them ones are being attacked on the battlefield of operashuns. Not the same thing.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I find it funny that the SSCI tried to link the quantity of actionable intelligence to the amount of people tortured. It points out only 7 of the 39 detainees subjected to the interrogation didn't provide accurate intelligence, attempting to call into question the efficacy of the enhanced interrogation techniques, leaving me to obviously deduce that the other 32 did provide some sort of actual intelligence. If my math serves, that's at least an 80% success rate. Sounds pretty effective to me.

It says:

'Therefore, zero intelligence reports were disseminated based on information provided by seven of the 39 detainees known to have been subjected to the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques.'

I was also under the impression the report was insinuating that no intelligence was gleaned using these techniques. That is a lie. Argumentum ad ignoratiam. How can a 100% failure rate be possible?

That is but one example of why I don't trust this report.

 

[R.D.]

I see there's been a resurgence of the old, tired lie by the usual leftist fanatics, that the waterboarding and sleep deprivation our interrogators used on terrorist prisoners, was "torture".

Apparently enough time has gone by since this fib was refuted, that the liberals think they can start reciting it again as though it were true, without people remembering.

So, once again: Torture causes pain, damage, disfigurement, and even death. Some countries put people on racks and stretch their joints until they tear apart, Others put red-hot irons to people's arms, faces, or feet. Still others cut off fingers or toes one at a time.

Waterboarding, OTOH, is just putting someone flat on a board and pouring water into his mouth and nose. It's uncomfortable and even painful and can create fear of drowning. But no one drowns, and as soon as the water stops and the guy coughs it out of his mouth and nose, he's fine again within minutes.

Paying your taxes is painful, too, and can create fear of drowning (in debt) without end. And unlike waterboarding, it goes on forever, and comes back year after year. And paying taxes can cause as much sleep deprivation as our interrogators ever did, again continuing for months instead of a few days. I'd wager that a lot of American would prefer waterboarding on April 15 over paying taxes, if they could save the one-quarter of their pay that government takes in income taxes, excises, sales taxes etc. that keep nibbling away at everything they own without end.

"Waterboarding is torture" only to people who have never thought much about what torture really is... or even what waterboarding is.

No, wrong as usual. Water boarding is a war crime. That's why Japanese officers were hanged for doing exactly that.

Link?

Don't have a link about Japanese officers being hanged, but here are some about Japanese getting 15 year prison sentences for water boarding.

historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=yukio_asano_1

public-access-project.org/asano_case.pdf

lawofwar.org/Water_Torture_Article.htm

Thanks, that one I know and it was a civilian that was waterboarded

 

[Discombobulated]

History supports McCain s stance on waterboarding PolitiFact

" ... following World War II war crime trials were convened. The Japanese were tried and convicted and hung for war crimes committed against American POWs. Among those charges for which they were convicted was waterboarding."
— John McCain on Thursday, November 29th, 2007 in a campaign event in St. Petersburg

LINK? LINK? LINK?

Some people just don't know any history.

Japanese War Crime Trials

 

[Billo_Really]

I see there's been a resurgence of the old, tired lie by the usual leftist fanatics, that the waterboarding and sleep deprivation our interrogators used on terrorist prisoners, was "torture".

Apparently enough time has gone by since this fib was refuted, that the liberals think they can start reciting it again as though it were true, without people remembering.

So, once again: Torture causes pain, damage, disfigurement, and even death. Some countries put people on racks and stretch their joints until they tear apart, Others put red-hot irons to people's arms, faces, or feet. Still others cut off fingers or toes one at a time.

Waterboarding, OTOH, is just putting someone flat on a board and pouring water into his mouth and nose. It's uncomfortable and even painful and can create fear of drowning. But no one drowns, and as soon as the water stops and the guy coughs it out of his mouth and nose, he's fine again within minutes.

Paying your taxes is painful, too, and can create fear of drowning (in debt) without end. And unlike waterboarding, it goes on forever, and comes back year after year. And paying taxes can cause as much sleep deprivation as our interrogators ever did, again continuing for months instead of a few days. I'd wager that a lot of American would prefer waterboarding on April 15 over paying taxes, if they could save the one-quarter of their pay that government takes in income taxes, excises, sales taxes etc. that keep nibbling away at everything they own without end.

"Waterboarding is torture" only to people who have never thought much about what torture really is... or even what waterboarding is.

If waterboarding is not torture, then why did the Reagan DOJ send 4 Texas sheriffs to prison over it?

 

[Esmeralda]

I see there's been a resurgence of the old, tired lie by the usual leftist fanatics, that the waterboarding and sleep deprivation our interrogators used on terrorist prisoners, was "torture".

Apparently enough time has gone by since this fib was refuted, that the liberals think they can start reciting it again as though it were true, without people remembering.

So, once again: Torture causes pain, damage, disfigurement, and even death. Some countries put people on racks and stretch their joints until they tear apart, Others put red-hot irons to people's arms, faces, or feet. Still others cut off fingers or toes one at a time.

Waterboarding, OTOH, is just putting someone flat on a board and pouring water into his mouth and nose. It's uncomfortable and even painful and can create fear of drowning. But no one drowns, and as soon as the water stops and the guy coughs it out of his mouth and nose, he's fine again within minutes.

Paying your taxes is painful, too, and can create fear of drowning (in debt) without end. And unlike waterboarding, it goes on forever, and comes back year after year. And paying taxes can cause as much sleep deprivation as our interrogators ever did, again continuing for months instead of a few days. I'd wager that a lot of American would prefer waterboarding on April 15 over paying taxes, if they could save the one-quarter of their pay that government takes in income taxes, excises, sales taxes etc. that keep nibbling away at everything they own without end.

"Waterboarding is torture" only to people who have never thought much about what torture really is... or even what waterboarding is.

You're serious? This thread is ridiculous. Of course it is torture.

 

[R.D.]

I see there's been a resurgence of the old, tired lie by the usual leftist fanatics, that the waterboarding and sleep deprivation our interrogators used on terrorist prisoners, was "torture".

Apparently enough time has gone by since this fib was refuted, that the liberals think they can start reciting it again as though it were true, without people remembering.

So, once again: Torture causes pain, damage, disfigurement, and even death. Some countries put people on racks and stretch their joints until they tear apart, Others put red-hot irons to people's arms, faces, or feet. Still others cut off fingers or toes one at a time.

Waterboarding, OTOH, is just putting someone flat on a board and pouring water into his mouth and nose. It's uncomfortable and even painful and can create fear of drowning. But no one drowns, and as soon as the water stops and the guy coughs it out of his mouth and nose, he's fine again within minutes.

Paying your taxes is painful, too, and can create fear of drowning (in debt) without end. And unlike waterboarding, it goes on forever, and comes back year after year. And paying taxes can cause as much sleep deprivation as our interrogators ever did, again continuing for months instead of a few days. I'd wager that a lot of American would prefer waterboarding on April 15 over paying taxes, if they could save the one-quarter of their pay that government takes in income taxes, excises, sales taxes etc. that keep nibbling away at everything they own without end.

"Waterboarding is torture" only to people who have never thought much about what torture really is... or even what waterboarding is.

If waterboarding is not torture, then why did the Reagan DOJ send 4 Texas sheriffs to prison over it?

Which war? Who were the soldiers?

 

[Esmeralda]

These kinds of things have been elastic through our history. The exigencies of the situation dictate policy, and policy changes back when the crisis is thought to be over.(Probably the way it ought to be) A Democrat rounded up American citizens of Japanese descent and put them in jail without due process during WWII, and only when the War was over, did they notice that it wasn't right.

The real problem here is that the War with Lunatic Islam is just getting started.

And they were compensated for it too.

Not really. Only to some extent. As a student, my class visited a trial where a Japanese family was suing the government for the return of or reimbursement for property they lost as a result of WWII resettlement. This trial was in the LATE 1970s. Obviously people were not fully 'compensated' for what they lost. This was a trail in the PNW. It was by no means a singular situation: such trials were going on and have been going on since the end of WWII. Though people were not gassed or otherwise put to death as the Germans did in their camps, what was done to American Japenese is indefensible and they were not 'compensated' for what they lost.

 

[idb]

I find it funny that the SSCI tried to link the quantity of actionable intelligence to the amount of people tortured. It points out only 7 of the 39 detainees subjected to the interrogation didn't provide accurate intelligence, attempting to call into question the efficacy of the enhanced interrogation techniques, leaving me to obviously deduce that the other 32 did provide some sort of actual intelligence. If my math serves, that's at least an 80% success rate. Sounds pretty effective to me.

It says:

'Therefore, zero intelligence reports were disseminated based on information provided by seven of the 39 detainees known to have been subjected to the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques.'

I was also under the impression the report was insinuating that no intelligence was gleaned using these techniques. That is a lie. Argumentum ad ignoratiam. How can a 100% failure rate be possible?

That is but one example of why I don't trust this report.

You had already decided you 'didn't trust the report' before you'd even read it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I find it funny that the SSCI tried to link the quantity of actionable intelligence to the amount of people tortured. It points out only 7 of the 39 detainees subjected to the interrogation didn't provide accurate intelligence, attempting to call into question the efficacy of the enhanced interrogation techniques, leaving me to obviously deduce that the other 32 did provide some sort of actual intelligence. If my math serves, that's at least an 80% success rate. Sounds pretty effective to me.

It says:

'Therefore, zero intelligence reports were disseminated based on information provided by seven of the 39 detainees known to have been subjected to the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques.'

I was also under the impression the report was insinuating that no intelligence was gleaned using these techniques. That is a lie. Argumentum ad ignoratiam. How can a 100% failure rate be possible?

That is but one example of why I don't trust this report.

You had already decided you 'didn't trust the report' before you'd even read it.

He still hasn't read it. He's been led to a couple of passages by someone. He's got no clue.

 

[idb]

I find it funny that the SSCI tried to link the quantity of actionable intelligence to the amount of people tortured. It points out only 7 of the 39 detainees subjected to the interrogation didn't provide accurate intelligence, attempting to call into question the efficacy of the enhanced interrogation techniques, leaving me to obviously deduce that the other 32 did provide some sort of actual intelligence. If my math serves, that's at least an 80% success rate. Sounds pretty effective to me.

It says:

'Therefore, zero intelligence reports were disseminated based on information provided by seven of the 39 detainees known to have been subjected to the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques.'

I was also under the impression the report was insinuating that no intelligence was gleaned using these techniques. That is a lie. Argumentum ad ignoratiam. How can a 100% failure rate be possible?

That is but one example of why I don't trust this report.

You had already decided you 'didn't trust the report' before you'd even read it.

He still hasn't read it. He's been led to a couple of passages by someone. He's got no clue.

I'd say you're right.
The passage he quoted is a conclusive sentence to a page or paragraph that is actually missing, so we can't determine the context of it.

 

[hipeter924]

Hmm, how about chaining a half naked man to a cold concrete slab long enough for him to die of hypothermia?

Meh....you want to give those TERRORISTS tea and crumpets??????!!!!!

No, just not abandon our ethics and commitment to protecting human rights just because they are the current enemy.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Hmm, how about chaining a half naked man to a cold concrete slab long enough for him to die of hypothermia?

Meh....you want to give those TERRORISTS tea and crumpets??????!!!!!

No, just not abandon our ethics and commitment to protecting human rights just because they are the current enemy.

You are EXACTLY abandoning our ethics.

 

[whitehall]

Libs still pretend that the stupid antics at Abu Ghrab rise to the level of torture. Embarrassment is now an element of torture. It's ironic that John McCain who endured real torture at the hands of our new friends in North Vietnam offers no enlightenment to the difference between psychological warfare and real physical torture. Maybe it's because McCain broke under real torture and signed propaganda documents and he doesn't want to bring up the subject.

 

[hipeter924]

Hmm, how about chaining a half naked man to a cold concrete slab long enough for him to die of hypothermia?

Meh....you want to give those TERRORISTS tea and crumpets??????!!!!!

No, just not abandon our ethics and commitment to protecting human rights just because they are the current enemy.

You are EXACTLY abandoning our ethics.

You are EXACTLY supporting the police state. Damn, you must really want the state in your closet. I have taken it to bed a few times, then that is a lot more fun