Desperate liberals still trying to pretend waterboarding and sleep deprivation is "torture"

[Little-Acorn]

Exactly.

Torture causes damage. (as well as physical pain).

Chopping off fingers. Burning with a red-hot iron. Ripping apart joints on the rack. Etc.

Pouring water in somebody's face is not torture. Neither is keeping him up at night.

 

[Faun]

No sir... they're not torture.

There are international treaties which strongly disagree with you. And official US policy before Bush also disagrees with you. We prosecuted people for war crimes who had waterboarded our troops, and we called it torture.

You are having to torture your intellect into unsustainable contortions to convince yourselves that what our country did to prisoners was not wrong.

Doesn't matter what the treaties claim. It's not torture.

Torture injures the person, either mentally or physically or both.

US military personnel are subjected to the SAME techniques in the course of their training... and NO ONE is clambering around touting that to be torture.

The assertion is absurd on its face... and it serves as a means to promote the interests of the enemies of civilization.

You should be a lawyer ... then you could use your same, "nuh-uh," argument when the law is not on your side in court.

 

[Spare_change]

although water boarding and sleep deprivation are torture (of a degree) the Muslim scum should be thankful that we didn't subject them Roseanne Barr/Tom Arnold porn.

And rumor is that G5000 was willing to loan his personal stash to the CIA too.

No sir... they're not torture. Torture is injurious, it is sadistic...

To make the claim that such is torture, you must then claim that US Military training is torture and that considering the twisted reasoning of the Ideological Left is torture.

And yet, we tried and convicted Japanese of torture for waterboarding.

The level of your knowledge is really .... uhhhh .... shallow. You are quoting an old Mother Jones article in which the information was taken out of context from a comment by John McCain, and then conflated in order to support a preconceived agenda.

Saying that we executed Japanese soldiers for waterboarding is like saying we executed a serial killer because he drove too fast. Yes, they waterboarded ... yes, they were convicted ... but, they were convicted of crimes orders of magnitude worse than waterboarding.

You're probably not aware, for example, that Japanese soldiers considered the liver of POWs especially potent ... and they would keep them alive while they flayed their skin, cutting off pieces of thighs, arms, ears, and eating them ... all the while ensuring they kept the victim alive for days so that they could eat the liver at the moment of death.

It is disingenuous to say they were executed for waterboarding ... they were also convicted of keeping POWs locked up ... were they executed because of that?

 

[Spare_change]

Doesn't matter what the treaties claim. It's not torture.

Torture injures the person, either mentally or physically or both.

US military personnel are subjected to the SAME techniques in the course of their training... and NO ONE is clambering around touting that to be torture.

The assertion is absurd on its face... and it serves as a means to promote the interests of the enemies of civilization.

I'm a former Marine. The idea that basic training or even combat training is equivalent to the stuff that the torture report has in it is idiotic and wrong. A 12 mile hike with a 100 pound bag on your back will make you think you're going to be sore tomorrow, having food and water pumped up your anus is inhumane.

In Basic at MOST you'll go 1 day without any sleep (in total about 36 hours without sleep) in the Senate report sleep deprivation went on for sometimes 180 hours while having electric power drills running or bright lights all around you.

Also I can think of any comparison in the military to being hung by your wrist, put into a diaper, and left hanging for days at a time.

You're probably not familiar with Escape and Evasion training given to special forces and pilots. I had the opportunity to 'enjoy' the experience ... I was waterboarded, I was stripped naked, I was hung from the ceiling (by my feet) and I went thru sleep and sensory deprivation. These are not a part of 'basic training'.

 

[Spare_change]

Let's try to get this subject back on point ----

The real issue is simple .... does the end justify the means? If one life is saved, is torture okay? Two lives? 10 lives?

What if it's your daughter that is threatened? You come home, your daughter is tied to a chair. A biological weapon in a suitcase sits at her feet. The clock is ticking. Sitting across the table is the perpetrator. What are you willing to do in order to save your daughter's life? Where do you draw the line? Would you resort to violence?

When does the end justify the means? And, what 'means' are you willing to use when you don't know what the 'end' will be? You just THINK the perpetrator knows the unlock code. You're not sure ... what do you do then?

It's easy to sit in an ivory tower ... as long as someone guards the entrance.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Exactly.

Torture causes damage. (as well as physical pain).

Chopping off fingers. Burning with a red-hot iron. Ripping apart joints on the rack. Etc.

Pouring water in somebody's face is not torture. Neither is keeping him up at night.

If you think waterboarding is "pouring water in someone's face" you're dumber than fucking dirt.

It simulates drowning, in EVERY respect. Drowning is considered one of the perhaps worst ways to die. You literally believe you are drowning to death when you are wateroarded

another example of idiots with no knowledge bleating on a topic.

And Keys, you've certainly never been involved with a waterboarding either.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Doesn't matter what the treaties claim. It's not torture.

Torture injures the person, either mentally or physically or both.

US military personnel are subjected to the SAME techniques in the course of their training... and NO ONE is clambering around touting that to be torture.

The assertion is absurd on its face... and it serves as a means to promote the interests of the enemies of civilization.

I'm a former Marine. The idea that basic training or even combat training is equivalent to the stuff that the torture report has in it is idiotic and wrong. A 12 mile hike with a 100 pound bag on your back will make you think you're going to be sore tomorrow, having food and water pumped up your anus is inhumane.

So you feel that the work of fiction, oka; 'the anti-Americans in the Senate report', has some relationship with reality? The rule is: ... inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions)

But, for the sake of argument, when did an enema become inhumane?

In Basic at MOST you'll go 1 day without any sleep (in total about 36 hours without sleep) in the Senate report sleep deprivation went on for sometimes 180 hours while having electric power drills running or bright lights all around you.

Yes... and these are people who participated in the murdering of massive numbers of innocent people. So, where's the problem in causing them to be uncomfortable? All they had to do to NOT be uncomfortable is to spill what they know. So ... what's your point?

 

[dblack]

Yes... and these are people who participated in the murdering of massive numbers of innocent people.

How do we know that?

 

[Faun]

although water boarding and sleep deprivation are torture (of a degree) the Muslim scum should be thankful that we didn't subject them Roseanne Barr/Tom Arnold porn.

And rumor is that G5000 was willing to loan his personal stash to the CIA too.

No sir... they're not torture. Torture is injurious, it is sadistic...

To make the claim that such is torture, you must then claim that US Military training is torture and that considering the twisted reasoning of the Ideological Left is torture.

And yet, we tried and convicted Japanese of torture for waterboarding.

The level of your knowledge is really .... uhhhh .... shallow. You are quoting an old Mother Jones article in which the information was taken out of context from a comment by John McCain, and then conflated in order to support a preconceived agenda.

Saying that we executed Japanese soldiers for waterboarding is like saying we executed a serial killer because he drove too fast. Yes, they waterboarded ... yes, they were convicted ... but, they were convicted of crimes orders of magnitude worse than waterboarding.

You're probably not aware, for example, that Japanese soldiers considered the liver of POWs especially potent ... and they would keep them alive while they flayed their skin, cutting off pieces of thighs, arms, ears, and eating them ... all the while ensuring they kept the victim alive for days so that they could eat the liver at the moment of death.

It is disingenuous to say they were executed for waterboarding ... they were also convicted of keeping POWs locked up ... were they executed because of that?

Spectacularly wrong. My information comes from neither mother Jones nor John McCain...

U.S. Military Commission, Yokohama, May 1-28, 1947

That between 1 April, 1943 and 31 December, 1943, the accused Yukio Asano, did, willfully and unlawfully, brutally mistreat and torture John Henry Burton, an American Prisoner of War, by beating him; and by fastening him head downward on a
stretcher and forcing water into his nose.”​

So yes, there were convictions for waterboarding, which was classified as torture.

 

[Spare_change]

although water boarding and sleep deprivation are torture (of a degree) the Muslim scum should be thankful that we didn't subject them Roseanne Barr/Tom Arnold porn.

And rumor is that G5000 was willing to loan his personal stash to the CIA too.

No sir... they're not torture. Torture is injurious, it is sadistic...

To make the claim that such is torture, you must then claim that US Military training is torture and that considering the twisted reasoning of the Ideological Left is torture.

And yet, we tried and convicted Japanese of torture for waterboarding.

The level of your knowledge is really .... uhhhh .... shallow. You are quoting an old Mother Jones article in which the information was taken out of context from a comment by John McCain, and then conflated in order to support a preconceived agenda.

Saying that we executed Japanese soldiers for waterboarding is like saying we executed a serial killer because he drove too fast. Yes, they waterboarded ... yes, they were convicted ... but, they were convicted of crimes orders of magnitude worse than waterboarding.

You're probably not aware, for example, that Japanese soldiers considered the liver of POWs especially potent ... and they would keep them alive while they flayed their skin, cutting off pieces of thighs, arms, ears, and eating them ... all the while ensuring they kept the victim alive for days so that they could eat the liver at the moment of death.

It is disingenuous to say they were executed for waterboarding ... they were also convicted of keeping POWs locked up ... were they executed because of that?

Spectacularly wrong. My information comes from neither mother Jones nor John McCain...

U.S. Military Commission, Yokohama, May 1-28, 1947

That between 1 April, 1943 and 31 December, 1943, the accused Yukio Asano, did, willfully and unlawfully, brutally mistreat and torture John Henry Burton, an American Prisoner of War, by beating him; and by fastening him head downward on a
stretcher and forcing water into his nose.”​

So yes, there were convictions for waterboarding, which was classified as torture.

You're going to take a single sentence out of a 1,600 page report written 67 years ago - (you didn't know that, did you? You didn't actually review the report, did you? You just accepted somebody else's reference to it, that's why you copied and pasted, instead of linking to it, right?) - and try to build a whole case out of the slimmest of threads?

You didn't bother to actually review the formal report, and try to find out if this was a single charge in a much larger prosecution, did you? You didn't check to see that Yukio Asano was actually convicted of 31 other charges as well, did you? You didn't actually check if Asano was executed because of waterboarding, did you? Instead, you chose to visit anti-waterboarding propaganda sites, and just quote their carefully selected and carefully edited quotes, didn't you?

C'mon, man ... I know you're desperate to prove an unjustifiable position ... but surely, you can do better than that.

 

[Faun]

although water boarding and sleep deprivation are torture (of a degree) the Muslim scum should be thankful that we didn't subject them Roseanne Barr/Tom Arnold porn.

And rumor is that G5000 was willing to loan his personal stash to the CIA too.

No sir... they're not torture. Torture is injurious, it is sadistic...

To make the claim that such is torture, you must then claim that US Military training is torture and that considering the twisted reasoning of the Ideological Left is torture.

And yet, we tried and convicted Japanese of torture for waterboarding.

The level of your knowledge is really .... uhhhh .... shallow. You are quoting an old Mother Jones article in which the information was taken out of context from a comment by John McCain, and then conflated in order to support a preconceived agenda.

Saying that we executed Japanese soldiers for waterboarding is like saying we executed a serial killer because he drove too fast. Yes, they waterboarded ... yes, they were convicted ... but, they were convicted of crimes orders of magnitude worse than waterboarding.

You're probably not aware, for example, that Japanese soldiers considered the liver of POWs especially potent ... and they would keep them alive while they flayed their skin, cutting off pieces of thighs, arms, ears, and eating them ... all the while ensuring they kept the victim alive for days so that they could eat the liver at the moment of death.

It is disingenuous to say they were executed for waterboarding ... they were also convicted of keeping POWs locked up ... were they executed because of that?

Spectacularly wrong. My information comes from neither mother Jones nor John McCain...

U.S. Military Commission, Yokohama, May 1-28, 1947

That between 1 April, 1943 and 31 December, 1943, the accused Yukio Asano, did, willfully and unlawfully, brutally mistreat and torture John Henry Burton, an American Prisoner of War, by beating him; and by fastening him head downward on a
stretcher and forcing water into his nose.”​

So yes, there were convictions for waterboarding, which was classified as torture.

You're going to take a single sentence out of a 1,600 page report written 67 years ago - (you didn't know that, did you? You didn't actually review the report, did you? You just accepted somebody else's reference to it, that's why you copied and pasted, instead of linking to it, right?) - and try to build a whole case out of the slimmest of threads?

You didn't bother to actually review the formal report, and try to find out if this was a single charge in a much larger prosecution, did you? You didn't check to see that Yukio Asano was actually convicted of 31 other charges as well, did you? You didn't actually check if Asano was executed because of waterboarding, did you? Instead, you chose to visit anti-waterboarding propaganda sites, and just quote their carefully selected and carefully edited quotes, didn't you?

C'mon, man ... I know you're desperate to prove an unjustifiable position ... but surely, you can do better than that.

Spectacularly wrong again. You're on a roll. No, in reality, I posted that same link yesterday. Again, as then, it has nothing to do with mother Jones or John McCain. And I posted the sentence which called it torture, which is why I posted it. You can deny history all you want, but you can't make it go away. Japanese were charged with, and convicted of torture for waterboarding.

 

[Camp]

No sir... they're not torture. Torture is injurious, it is sadistic...

To make the claim that such is torture, you must then claim that US Military training is torture and that considering the twisted reasoning of the Ideological Left is torture.

And yet, we tried and convicted Japanese of torture for waterboarding.

The level of your knowledge is really .... uhhhh .... shallow. You are quoting an old Mother Jones article in which the information was taken out of context from a comment by John McCain, and then conflated in order to support a preconceived agenda.

Saying that we executed Japanese soldiers for waterboarding is like saying we executed a serial killer because he drove too fast. Yes, they waterboarded ... yes, they were convicted ... but, they were convicted of crimes orders of magnitude worse than waterboarding.

You're probably not aware, for example, that Japanese soldiers considered the liver of POWs especially potent ... and they would keep them alive while they flayed their skin, cutting off pieces of thighs, arms, ears, and eating them ... all the while ensuring they kept the victim alive for days so that they could eat the liver at the moment of death.

It is disingenuous to say they were executed for waterboarding ... they were also convicted of keeping POWs locked up ... were they executed because of that?

Spectacularly wrong. My information comes from neither mother Jones nor John McCain...

U.S. Military Commission, Yokohama, May 1-28, 1947

That between 1 April, 1943 and 31 December, 1943, the accused Yukio Asano, did, willfully and unlawfully, brutally mistreat and torture John Henry Burton, an American Prisoner of War, by beating him; and by fastening him head downward on a
stretcher and forcing water into his nose.”​

So yes, there were convictions for waterboarding, which was classified as torture.

You're going to take a single sentence out of a 1,600 page report written 67 years ago - (you didn't know that, did you? You didn't actually review the report, did you? You just accepted somebody else's reference to it, that's why you copied and pasted, instead of linking to it, right?) - and try to build a whole case out of the slimmest of threads?

You didn't bother to actually review the formal report, and try to find out if this was a single charge in a much larger prosecution, did you? You didn't check to see that Yukio Asano was actually convicted of 31 other charges as well, did you? You didn't actually check if Asano was executed because of waterboarding, did you? Instead, you chose to visit anti-waterboarding propaganda sites, and just quote their carefully selected and carefully edited quotes, didn't you?

C'mon, man ... I know you're desperate to prove an unjustifiable position ... but surely, you can do better than that.

Spectacularly wrong again. You're on a roll. No, in reality, I posted that same link yesterday. Again, as then, it has nothing to do with mother Jones or John McCain. And I posted the sentence which called it torture, which is why I posted it. You can deny history all you want, but you can't make it go away. Japanese were charged with, and convicted of torture for waterboarding.

www.lawofwar.org/Water_Torture_Article.htm

I have posted this link in numerous threads on this subject. I think the birther's of the torture debate just don't believe in all that legal mumbo jumbo and factual stuff. Plus it takes a 6th grade level of reading comprehension and a is not in talking radio voice or TV talking head speak.

 

[Katzndogz]

When someone is waterboarded a towel is put over their nose and mouth then the water is poured. The idea is to simulate drowning not actual drowning. There were 40 inmates that were waterboarded. A doctor was present each time. The waterboarding itself is always timed.

The waterboarding is not supposed to make the detainee give up information. It is part of a program involving other methods also that would break their will.

Kalid Shiekh Mohammed was so broken that he ended up giving seminars to CIA agents on al quaeda tactics.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Neil N. Blowme]

And yet, we tried and convicted Japanese of torture for waterboarding.

The level of your knowledge is really .... uhhhh .... shallow. You are quoting an old Mother Jones article in which the information was taken out of context from a comment by John McCain, and then conflated in order to support a preconceived agenda.

Saying that we executed Japanese soldiers for waterboarding is like saying we executed a serial killer because he drove too fast. Yes, they waterboarded ... yes, they were convicted ... but, they were convicted of crimes orders of magnitude worse than waterboarding.

You're probably not aware, for example, that Japanese soldiers considered the liver of POWs especially potent ... and they would keep them alive while they flayed their skin, cutting off pieces of thighs, arms, ears, and eating them ... all the while ensuring they kept the victim alive for days so that they could eat the liver at the moment of death.

It is disingenuous to say they were executed for waterboarding ... they were also convicted of keeping POWs locked up ... were they executed because of that?

Spectacularly wrong. My information comes from neither mother Jones nor John McCain...

U.S. Military Commission, Yokohama, May 1-28, 1947

That between 1 April, 1943 and 31 December, 1943, the accused Yukio Asano, did, willfully and unlawfully, brutally mistreat and torture John Henry Burton, an American Prisoner of War, by beating him; and by fastening him head downward on a
stretcher and forcing water into his nose.”​

So yes, there were convictions for waterboarding, which was classified as torture.

You're going to take a single sentence out of a 1,600 page report written 67 years ago - (you didn't know that, did you? You didn't actually review the report, did you? You just accepted somebody else's reference to it, that's why you copied and pasted, instead of linking to it, right?) - and try to build a whole case out of the slimmest of threads?

You didn't bother to actually review the formal report, and try to find out if this was a single charge in a much larger prosecution, did you? You didn't check to see that Yukio Asano was actually convicted of 31 other charges as well, did you? You didn't actually check if Asano was executed because of waterboarding, did you? Instead, you chose to visit anti-waterboarding propaganda sites, and just quote their carefully selected and carefully edited quotes, didn't you?

C'mon, man ... I know you're desperate to prove an unjustifiable position ... but surely, you can do better than that.

Spectacularly wrong again. You're on a roll. No, in reality, I posted that same link yesterday. Again, as then, it has nothing to do with mother Jones or John McCain. And I posted the sentence which called it torture, which is why I posted it. You can deny history all you want, but you can't make it go away. Japanese were charged with, and convicted of torture for waterboarding.

www.lawofwar.org/Water_Torture_Article.htm

I have posted this link in numerous threads on this subject. I think the birther's of the torture debate just don't believe in all that legal mumbo jumbo and factual stuff. Plus it takes a 6th grade level of reading comprehension and a is not in talking radio voice or TV talking head speak.

What a totally meaningless post.

 

[Camp]

The governing law in regards to torture, including water boarding is this one. It was promoted, pushed and signed by President Reagan. It made any interrogation technique that depended on "degrading" illegal.

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_against_Torture

 

[Neil N. Blowme]

The governing law in regards to torture, including water boarding is this one. It was promoted, pushed and signed by President Reagan. It made any interrogation technique that depended on "degrading" illegal.

en.wikipedia.org/wike/United_Nations_Convention_against_Torture

www.presidencyucsb.edu/ws/?pid=35858

Obama is murdering children.

Obama s Drones Have Killed at Least 176 Children in Pakistan Alone

 

[Faun]

The governing law in regards to torture, including water boarding is this one. It was promoted, pushed and signed by President Reagan. It made any interrogation technique that depended on "degrading" illegal.

en.wikipedia.org/wike/United_Nations_Convention_against_Torture

www.presidencyucsb.edu/ws/?pid=35858

Obama is murdering children.

Obama s Drones Have Killed at Least 176 Children in Pakistan Alone

Your surrender on the subject of waterboarding being torture is accepted.

 

[jon_berzerk]

The governing law in regards to torture, including water boarding is this one. It was promoted, pushed and signed by President Reagan. It made any interrogation technique that depended on "degrading" illegal.

en.wikipedia.org/wike/United_Nations_Convention_against_Torture

www.presidencyucsb.edu/ws/?pid=35858

Obama is murdering children.

Obama s Drones Have Killed at Least 176 Children in Pakistan Alone

the dedicated leftists do not care about that

 

[Camp]

The governing law in regards to torture, including water boarding is this one. It was promoted, pushed and signed by President Reagan. It made any interrogation technique that depended on "degrading" illegal.

en.wikipedia.org/wike/United_Nations_Convention_against_Torture

www.presidencyucsb.edu/ws/?pid=35858

Obama is murdering children.

Obama s Drones Have Killed at Least 176 Children in Pakistan Alone

Your surrender on the subject of waterboarding being torture is accepted.

Picking a screen name was the maximum limit of his wit.