Dubai's free market capitalism

[Kevin_Kennedy]

wiki is sourced.. and were the TWO sources I provided on top of that from two of your own usual stomping ground.

oh my, an "institute". How impressive.

*yawn*


maybe I can get a shout out from a "Think Tank" next.

The point being that I never said China was a free market. They obviously are a centrally planned economy, even more so than the U.S. is. But you can't deny that their status as an economic power has gone up since they've introduced capitalistic reforms. They were a stagnant third world country under Mao and communism, but they've become what they are today thanks to capitalistic reforms.

Now you would rather attack my source as a "blog," despite the Mises Institute being one of the foremost economic resources on the web. Attacking the source means that you can't attack the information, which means you have no argument. If you did, you could discuss the information regardless of the source.

no, the POINT being that your kind always avoid the albatross of the very same COMMIE CHINA which benefits from your bullshit free market opinion. No, what I can't deny is that they are BENEFITING from your kind who are willing to sell out America for pennies on the Renminbi as long as if lines the pockets of a scant few in relation to the general population. They are a communist nation. Economically ans socially. THAT, despite the above insistance otherwise, is the cold, hard fact regarding this economic partner that you people hold so dear. Hell, if CUBA were treated like CHINA we'd see a fucking economic blossom in Havana too. You say "stagnant third world nation under mao communism"....


..... DESPITE THAT THEY ARE STILL A FUCKING MAO COMMIE NATION. They are what they are today because your kind keep making reasons to give them wealth under FMC as if they are not going to take it. Certainly, since they don't seem to have to trade on par with what they produce and sell to us, no less.

and no, attacking sources means that I hold a standard for information above some silly fucking www.Iagreewithmyself.com website that anyone can create. Hell, Nambla has as much online validity as what you've posted. Maybe instead of crying about my standard for evidence you should make some effort to find some that isn't so fucking pathetic that it looks like sean hannity citing drudge who picked up a story from newsmax.

If you look at what they call their political party yes you would come to the conclusion that they're communist. If you look at their actual economy, however, the truth is they're a mixed economy just like the U.S. Now you can work yourself up into a righteous anger if you want, but you're not going to change reality.

Yes, anyone could go and create the equivalent to the Mises Institute no problem. With their thousands of articles, books, journals, conferences, debates, and so on and so forth online for free. Yes, that's easily imitated no doubt about it.

 

[Shogun]

The point being that I never said China was a free market. They obviously are a centrally planned economy, even more so than the U.S. is. But you can't deny that their status as an economic power has gone up since they've introduced capitalistic reforms. They were a stagnant third world country under Mao and communism, but they've become what they are today thanks to capitalistic reforms.

Now you would rather attack my source as a "blog," despite the Mises Institute being one of the foremost economic resources on the web. Attacking the source means that you can't attack the information, which means you have no argument. If you did, you could discuss the information regardless of the source.

no, the POINT being that your kind always avoid the albatross of the very same COMMIE CHINA which benefits from your bullshit free market opinion. No, what I can't deny is that they are BENEFITING from your kind who are willing to sell out America for pennies on the Renminbi as long as if lines the pockets of a scant few in relation to the general population. They are a communist nation. Economically ans socially. THAT, despite the above insistance otherwise, is the cold, hard fact regarding this economic partner that you people hold so dear. Hell, if CUBA were treated like CHINA we'd see a fucking economic blossom in Havana too. You say "stagnant third world nation under mao communism"....


..... DESPITE THAT THEY ARE STILL A FUCKING MAO COMMIE NATION. They are what they are today because your kind keep making reasons to give them wealth under FMC as if they are not going to take it. Certainly, since they don't seem to have to trade on par with what they produce and sell to us, no less.

and no, attacking sources means that I hold a standard for information above some silly fucking www.Iagreewithmyself.com website that anyone can create. Hell, Nambla has as much online validity as what you've posted. Maybe instead of crying about my standard for evidence you should make some effort to find some that isn't so fucking pathetic that it looks like sean hannity citing drudge who picked up a story from newsmax.

If you look at what they call their political party yes you would come to the conclusion that they're communist. If you look at their actual economy, however, the truth is they're a mixed economy just like the U.S. Now you can work yourself up into a righteous anger if you want, but you're not going to change reality.

Yes, anyone could go and create the equivalent to the Mises Institute no problem. With their thousands of articles, books, journals, conferences, debates, and so on and so forth online for free. Yes, that's easily imitated no doubt about it.

stormfront has all those things too. whooptyfuckingdo.

and you can email the encyclopedia Britannica, I guess, and let them know that they may have made a typo in their description of STATE OWNED ENTERPRISES.

 

[Shogun]

shogun: china's not communist.

I guess your Chinese to Engrish dictionary describes a STATE OWNED ENTERPRISE differently than mine does then.

It is how it functions not a dict definition.

I spent time in China 12 years ago. Even then it was becoming fairly capitalistic in it's business ventures.

That people sell goods to other people and respect the marginal concept of personal property doesn't define China in any way on par with the notions of the same people who describe the same level of state control as a socialist nightmare. When Venezuela takes over industries they are ritualistically maligned by the same people who are laughably trying to spitshine the turd of China's economic reality here. True story.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Ireland is in trouble, the bubble burst.

It's weathering the global meltdown a lot better than we are. I was there at the end of July.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

no, the POINT being that your kind always avoid the albatross of the very same COMMIE CHINA which benefits from your bullshit free market opinion. No, what I can't deny is that they are BENEFITING from your kind who are willing to sell out America for pennies on the Renminbi as long as if lines the pockets of a scant few in relation to the general population. They are a communist nation. Economically ans socially. THAT, despite the above insistance otherwise, is the cold, hard fact regarding this economic partner that you people hold so dear. Hell, if CUBA were treated like CHINA we'd see a fucking economic blossom in Havana too. You say "stagnant third world nation under mao communism"....


..... DESPITE THAT THEY ARE STILL A FUCKING MAO COMMIE NATION. They are what they are today because your kind keep making reasons to give them wealth under FMC as if they are not going to take it. Certainly, since they don't seem to have to trade on par with what they produce and sell to us, no less.

and no, attacking sources means that I hold a standard for information above some silly fucking www.Iagreewithmyself.com website that anyone can create. Hell, Nambla has as much online validity as what you've posted. Maybe instead of crying about my standard for evidence you should make some effort to find some that isn't so fucking pathetic that it looks like sean hannity citing drudge who picked up a story from newsmax.

If you look at what they call their political party yes you would come to the conclusion that they're communist. If you look at their actual economy, however, the truth is they're a mixed economy just like the U.S. Now you can work yourself up into a righteous anger if you want, but you're not going to change reality.

Yes, anyone could go and create the equivalent to the Mises Institute no problem. With their thousands of articles, books, journals, conferences, debates, and so on and so forth online for free. Yes, that's easily imitated no doubt about it.

stormfront has all those things too. whooptyfuckingdo.

and you can email the encyclopedia Britannica, I guess, and let them know that they may have made a typo in their description of STATE OWNED ENTERPRISES.

Then it's your contention that the United States is communist as well?

 

[Bern80]

Then it's your contention that the United States is communist as well?

No, no I'll stand up for Shogun this time. Communism in America would be his wet dream come true.

 

[Shogun]

If you look at what they call their political party yes you would come to the conclusion that they're communist. If you look at their actual economy, however, the truth is they're a mixed economy just like the U.S. Now you can work yourself up into a righteous anger if you want, but you're not going to change reality.

Yes, anyone could go and create the equivalent to the Mises Institute no problem. With their thousands of articles, books, journals, conferences, debates, and so on and so forth online for free. Yes, that's easily imitated no doubt about it.

stormfront has all those things too. whooptyfuckingdo.

and you can email the encyclopedia Britannica, I guess, and let them know that they may have made a typo in their description of STATE OWNED ENTERPRISES.

Then it's your contention that the United States is communist as well?

Not at all... but that doesn't keep your kind from crying MARX every time the President tries to retain the effect of a stimulus package by applying such to DOMESTIC LABOR, eh? You want to remind me how YOUR KIND reacted to stimulus moneys hinted at being directed at DOMESTIC JOBS?


See, this is a good example of how weak ass your argument is; pretending that China is NOT communist while your lips are firmly planted on its nipples for no other reason than to keep from feeling like an ass over the type of standard you apply to Cuba. SERIOUSLY.



hey, maybe the fucking ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA just doesn't have a good of an education as the typical free market capitalist. I'm sure thats it.

 

[Shogun]

Then it's your contention that the United States is communist as well?

No, no I'll stand up for Shogun this time. Communism in America would be his wet dream come true.

still trying to lash out, eh bern? I guess it's only natural for you to be angry and bitter while packing your shit for a one way plane ride to Dubai. I wouldn't want to live in that bastion of capitalist fail either. Think of it this way, BE$N: There will always be a pauper population to lord over like masters do slaves. Thats REALLY what you want, right BE$N?

 

[Bern80]

Then it's your contention that the United States is communist as well?

No, no I'll stand up for Shogun this time. Communism in America would be his wet dream come true.

still trying to lash out, eh bern? I guess it's only natural for you to be angry and bitter while packing your shit for a one way plane ride to Dubai. I wouldn't want to live in that bastion of capitalist fail either. Think of it this way, BE$N: There will always be a pauper population to lord over like masters do slaves. Thats REALLY what you want, right BE$N?

Not lashing out at all. Kevin simply implied that you believed America was a communist country. I defended you because I know you hold up places like China and Cuba, which you do contend to be communist, as the wonderful workers Utopia where the majority of people must have an even better standard of living than most people here. I know you weren't contending America is communist because it's counter intuitive for someone to complain about the economic system one would actuallty like to see in place. The only question really is do YOU have the balls to admit you would rather have communism in American than capitalism?

 

[Shogun]

No, no I'll stand up for Shogun this time. Communism in America would be his wet dream come true.

still trying to lash out, eh bern? I guess it's only natural for you to be angry and bitter while packing your shit for a one way plane ride to Dubai. I wouldn't want to live in that bastion of capitalist fail either. Think of it this way, BE$N: There will always be a pauper population to lord over like masters do slaves. Thats REALLY what you want, right BE$N?

Not lashing out at all. Kevin simply implied that you believed America was a communist country. I defended you because I know you hold up places like China and Cuba, which you do contend to be communist, as the wonderful workers Utopia where the majority of people must have an even better standard of living than most people here. I know you weren't contending America is communist because it's counter intuitive for someone to complain about the economic system one would actuallty like to see in place. The only question really is do YOU have the balls to admit you would rather have communism in American than capitalism?

In regards to the masses as opposed to benefiting only those who can afford it; indeed, they are utopias. I guess the slave class should just learn to enjoy their role, right BE$N? You and Batista can go cry in your corn flakes now.


and no, America is not a commie nation like the SELF PROCLAIMED CHINESE. Indeed, every time America moves to protect itself in the global pit fight market we are all reminded how things like universal health coverage is the next step to cultural annihilation by your types. Trust me, BE$N, those who find themselves unemployed by the policies of your type GET THE JOKE. Only, they don't laugh about it as quickly as your third chin can.


And yes, I'd LOVE to see more protective socialist policies in place. I realize that my answer doesn't allow you to cry commie quite like you'd hoped but hey.. we can't all be impressed by trite fucking rhetoric.


Now, go comb your globe for some third world sugar producing land to vent your rage on, BE$N. Maybe you can tell me more about how wealth has historically trickled down to banana growing nations too.

 

[Bern80]

In regards to the masses as opposed to benefiting only those who can afford it; indeed, they are utopias. I guess the slave class should just learn to enjoy their role, right BE$N? You and Batista can go cry in your corn flakes now.

Please explain how a country who's people have an avg. lower standard of living (China/Cuba) is a better place to live than a place (here) with an avg. higher standard of living.

and no, America is not a commie nation like the SELF PROCLAIMED CHINESE. Indeed, every time America moves to protect itself in the global pit fight market we are all reminded how things like universal health coverage is the next step to cultural annihilation by your types. Trust me, BE$N, those who find themselves unemployed by the policies of your type GET THE JOKE. Only, they don't laugh about it as quickly as your third chin can.

People like you just don't see the big picture. At the very least you don't see the negatives that there would be in alternative systems. The most obvious being a lower standard of living for EVERYONE. Widespread suffering in the name of fairness. In a nutshell you are arguing that we should all suffer to try and pick up the few like yourself who believe in this asanine notion that you shouldn't have to work for anything.

On a side note. your posts would be far more intelligible with out the inclusion of red eyed, frothing at the mouth, not nearly as witty as you think metaphor every other sentence.

And yes, I'd LOVE to see more protective socialist policies in place. I realize that my answer doesn't allow you to cry commie quite like you'd hoped but hey.. we can't all be impressed by trite fucking rhetoric.

Okay let's do that. How do you propose people compensate for that? Say we force people to only buy American in the name of protecting jobs. Here's where your moron chip failed. Typically things made in America cost more than there foreign made counterpart. So that means all American's incur greater expenses. Which means less ability to improve one's standard of living or possibly even lower it. Sure you saved jobs, but everyone now has less disposable income. You basically created a zero sum game. What the hell is the benefit of the that? On top of that you probably would not actually save many jobs in the long run. Not without subsidizing it anyway. People will simply refuse to pay the higher prices. So to keep prices low AND keep the jobs more items will need to be subsidized. Thats just a way of saying we'll take money from the taxpayer (redecing their disposable income again) to make up for the fact that your company can't operate in the black. And as this economic crash has shown us (allow me to use a metphor) the chicken's eventually come home to roost. No business can continue to operate at a loss, even if it is subsidized because at some point the taxpayers are going to wake up say wait a minuite, I made a concious deciion to not purchase from this company cause its too expensive, but now your forcing me to give them my money anyway?' Quite the Utopia you constructed there Shogun. A world where everyone is pissed and equally not well off. Let's here it for equality.

Time for you to get honest again. You don't really care about the level of a societies standard of living. All you care about is that the outcomes be the same for every one. The 'ol 'if I'm too stupid to figure out how to get it, then by gosh no one can have it' right? Which I guess is fundamental difference about how you view life. I don't think it's someone elses respsonsiblity to provide positive outcomes for me. Apparently you do.

 

[Toro]

China is not a communist country. It doesn't matter if the communist party is ruling the country - communist parties don't allow private property, private health insurance, large multinationals to set up shop and employ thousands, extraordinarily rich people. etc. Somewhere, I had read that the governments in China account for less of the economy than in America, though I don't know if that is true or not.

China has been transitioning from a communist, agarian society to a mixed economy while trying to emulate the Asian Tigers that have become wealthy. All successful economies are a mixture of private and public enterprise.

Cuba, on the other hand, is still a communist country.

 

[Shogun]

Please explain how a country who's people have an avg. lower standard of living (China/Cuba) is a better place to live than a place (here) with an avg. higher standard of living.


It's a matter of equally shared resources. If cuba were not embargoed then the relative wealth would be spread out among it's citizenship instead of horded in a corner by your type. A better example would have been Russia where even NOW they are "enjoying" the laughable transition to an imploded form of capitalism. Plenty of Russians would rather be there than here much like the Chinese or Cubans who laugh at your dangled carrot. Either way, there will always be lower classes. But, with socialism, at least they get health care and shared resources instead of being cast off into the pit of "well I can afford it and you can't so too fucking bad". This may come as a shocker, BE$N, but a little social equality goes a long way.


People like you just don't see the big picture. At the very least you don't see the negatives that there would be in alternative systems. The most obvious being a lower standard of living for EVERYONE. Widespread suffering in the name of fairness. In a nutshell you are arguing that we should all suffer to try and pick up the few like yourself who believe in this asanine notion that you shouldn't have to work for anything.

On a side note. your posts would be far more intelligible with out the inclusion of red eyed, frothing at the mouth, not nearly as witty as you think metaphor every other sentence.



yea yea yea.. *yawn* if it's not some convoluted "big picture" it's someones education. If not that, it's a giant commie conspiracy. Ever notice how acting like the misunderstood martyr really doesn't get you anywhere this side of widescale layoffs and the joke of your retail cashier solutions?

I know damn well that there are negatives in every system. However, I'm more likely to retain consistency and demand clarity rather than cry free market and hide behind bullshit buzz words like FREEDOM when socialism effects the culture negatively. All your kind does is make excuses in order to perpetuate feeling right about something that you are clearly wrong about. See Cuba.

and, when the masses are having their SOL lowered because of your FMC opinion you'll have to excuse us for not giving a shit about pulling you down with us. You can't expect the working class to have their SOL normalized with a mexican pauper and then give a shit that you eat some crow via socialism. too bad, so sad.

who the hell is taling about not having to work for things? Please, QUOTE ME, bitch. I DARE you.



even commies and socialists go to work, dummy. But, please, give me another example of how you hide behind trite fucking talking points.


And, BE%N, when you type my posts you can go ahead and decide what they say and how they are conveyed. Until then, You are just going to have to play with your titties and deal with it. m'kay? m'kay.


Okay let's do that. How do you propose people compensate for that? Say we force people to only buy American in the name of protecting jobs. Here's where your moron chip failed. Typically things made in America cost more than there foreign made counterpart. So that means all American's incur greater expenses. Which means less ability to improve one's standard of living or possibly even lower it.

Time for you to get honest again. You don't really care about the level of a societies standard of living. All you care about is that the outcomes be the same for every one. The 'ol 'if I'm too stupid to figure out how to get it, then by gosh no one can have it' right? Which I guess is fundamental difference about how you view life. I don't think it's someone elses respsonsiblity to provide positive outcomes for me. Apparently you do.


First, we've been over this before. the cost to produce goods is not the end all variable in protected economies. First, those whose income have been protected have a greater consuming multiplier than those who work two cashier jobs just to make ends meet. hence, there is a circular return on protecting domestic production. Point in case, those big EBIL union auto workers who make more than Chang Chong in China can afford to BUY A FUCKING CAR that is produced in the US. That is a fact. The more people have to spend, the more they buy, the more people work. Retaining this cycle for America might have just sent you into a fucking pulmonary emergency but it's why the ole "Hungry? Eat Your Import" bumper stickers are as true today as it was in the 80s AND is why it's so funny watching your kind do nothing when CHINA knows the truth of it as well and games international markets in order to preserve internal markets for their own goods. TRADE DEFICITS DONT HAPPEN IN A FUCKIING VACUUM, BE$N.

Another point in case: The Greatest Generation was, thus far, the apex of our national ability to preserve domestic labor. Albeit because of xenophobic racism but the product was still the same. BECAUSE people of that era would rather buy an American car than a toyota we saw the strongest middle class rise and create the baby boomers. A family could support itself on one income from ONE bread winner in a low-skilled, production job. Sorry to burst your bubble, BE$N, but 55 year old factory lathe workers are not going back to school to become java programmers (who, themselves can easily be outsourced just like production has).


So, for those nations who are not trading on par with what WE consume of their goods, their exports should have a tariff which equates the retail cost with that of an America product. You'll have to forgive me for not giving a shit about cancerous FMC opinions when China hasn't traded equally with the US in decades. The same with almost every other nation that enjoys the FMC tit your kind offer.

Will prices go up when compared to shit made from slave labor nations? sure. but, guess what else goes up, BE$N: income to buy that shit as we preserve out standard of living instead of letting it get normalized with that of a mexican pauper. How do you think NAFTA is really helping middle America, BE$N? Let me give you a hint: no one is merely grateful to have their petty 8/hour production job at toyota when they recall lifestyles before your kind shat all over our nation for the sake of your fatass checkbook.


and, BE$N, before you start making assumptions about my motivations feel free to take your fucking ass to the midwest and get a job that isn't housed in a nice, warm office. You see, fuckwad, I've walked the path that I'm talking about and know exactly what the game from this end looks like. When you can do more than sit on your pedestal and cry foul let me know; This is about a standard of living for Americans... not your dusty fucking rhetoric that began to dull in the 90s.

 

[Shogun]

China is not a communist country. It doesn't matter if the communist party is ruling the country - communist parties don't allow private property, private health insurance, large multinationals to set up shop and employ thousands, extraordinarily rich people. etc. Somewhere, I had read that the governments in China account for less of the economy than in America, though I don't know if that is true or not.

China has been transitioning from a communist, agarian society to a mixed economy while trying to emulate the Asian Tigers that have become wealthy. All successful economies are a mixture of private and public enterprise.

Cuba, on the other hand, is still a communist country.

*sigh*


feel free to email the encyclopedia Britannica and let them know YOU said so.





ps.. make sure you let them know how a STATE OWNED ENTERPRISE is, somehow, a step toward free market capitalism too.

 

[uscitizen]

Ireland is in trouble, the bubble burst.

It's weathering the global meltdown a lot better than we are. I was there at the end of July.

Man, what if the viagra factory there shuts down?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Man, what if the viagra factory there shuts down?

Then maybe we wouldn't have to be barraged with those AWFUL commercials. In fact, I think they should outlaw ALL pharmaceutical commercials. I love the yahoos that say all of the money that big pharma bilks out of us goes to R&D. PLEASE. Look at all the commercials... THAT'S where the money is going. They want to get as many gullible Americans hooked up to this drug or that for the rest of their lives, whether they need it or not. They can now insist to their doctor that they need it.

 

[DiamondDave]

Man, what if the viagra factory there shuts down?

Then maybe we wouldn't have to be barraged with those AWFUL commercials. In fact, I think they should outlaw ALL pharmaceutical commercials. I love the yahoos that say all of the money that big pharma bilks out of us goes to R&D. PLEASE. Look at all the commercials... THAT'S where the money is going. They want to get as many gullible Americans hooked up to this drug or that for the rest of their lives, whether they need it or not. They can now insist to their doctor that they need it.

And I will ask again.. what of all the money the DEM party and DEM supporters put toward ads supporting the government run health care bills?? Why don't they simply give that money to charities helping those in need with hospital bills. Or creating a not for profit insurance company??

 

[Shogun]

uhm.. where the hell would one have to live in order to see as many dem commercials as various drug commercials?


sometimes people say the goofiest shit.

 

[uscitizen]

in 2003 16% of Pharma's money went to R&D. near 30% went to administrative overhead.

 

[Bern80]

and, BE$N, before you start making assumptions about my motivations feel free to take your fucking ass to the midwest and get a job that isn't housed in a nice, warm office. You see, fuckwad, I've walked the path that I'm talking about and know exactly what the game from this end looks like. When you can do more than sit on your pedestal and cry foul let me know; This is about a standard of living for Americans... not your dusty fucking rhetoric that began to dull in the 90s.

This is really the only part of your blather that really warrants a response because standard of living is what is at the crux of the argument.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth and one doesn't know what the other is saying. The facts simply don't jive for you Shogun. The FACT is you claim this is about a better standard of living for everyone in America. We already have a better standard of living than your pedastal countries of Cuba and China. Apparently the FACT that those two countries are communists and ours is a capitalistic one is just some amazing coincidence to you. The FACT is that on avg. people enjoy a better standard of living here than in those countries due to the fact that people are allowed to achieve whatever they want. The FACT is capitalism provides the best opportunity for job creation, thus wealth accumulation, thus improving standard of living. That has historically been proven time and again.