Equality and Israeli Citizenship

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Do any other countries have a divided citizenship based on ethnic groups?

African-Americans.

That's self-identifying. That isn't citizenship.





It is the same thing as you are claiming is in Israel. The arab muslims segregate themselves and make false claims, and you being a good little dhimmi believe their LIES

Actually....

no.

It's a bit more complex than that. I'll give you some time to think about it :)
 
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Is there any such thing as an Israeli Citizen?

Citizenship is divided - there are Arab Israeli citizens and Jewish Israeli citizens.

Do any other countries have a divided citizenship based on ethnic groups? (I don't know of any)

Can a society have true equality if it has different categories of citizenship? Does that not in and of itself foster an atmosphere of inequality?

I think yes, and I think it creates a subconscious belief that some citizens are better than others and this is reinforced in a system of citizenship that gives different rights and obligations to each group. It strives for a "different but equal" system, but I don't think that can truly work.





What about your own American divided citizenship then. You have the following divided citizen groups

Afro American
Caribbean American
Irish American
Indian American
Arab American
Pakistani American
Scots American
Japanese American
Asian American

To name but a few.

Accept I don't think it's the same thing. That's how groups "self identify" - there is an all encompassing American citizenship and nationality - they are the same. Each enthnicity has the exact same rights and the exact same responsibilities in law under one citizenship category.

Is it the same for Israel?


But I think you are getting at the two states in existence that have two governments, and trying to slip in your usual anti Jew rhetoric over Palestine.


Looks like you lost again in your attacks on the Jews.



By the way the arab Israeli's have the same rights as the Jewish Israelis UNDER ISREALI LAW[/QUOTE]
 
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  • There is no such thing as “Israeli nationality.” In fact, the Israeli Supreme Court has ruled that recognizing “Israeli nationality” would create a schism between the Jewish people, making them choose between their Jewish identity and their Israeli identity.[13] “[T]he principle of self-determination should, in its view, apply to peoples and not to ‘shreds of peoples’ …”[14] The Israeli Supreme Court quoted a lower court’s reasoning: “One cannot belong to two nationalities. If an Israeli nationality is recognized, members of the Jewish nationality in Israel will have to choose between the two: Are they Israelis, in which case they would not be Jewish; or are they Jewish, in which case they would not be Israeli; the same would apply to members of minority groups [in Israel]. Recognition of such nationality may bring about the national and social disintegration of the entire nation … A separatist trend of splitting the Jewish nations must not be accepted.”[15]
Source: CitizenshipNationalityIsrael/Palestine

If this is true, and there is no such thing as an "Israeli nationality" - what is there?

Are the rights and responsibilities the same?

Oh, I remember this case. Those were a group of delusionists who called the Israeli court to change their ethnic belonging from "Jew" to "Israeli". The court decided that they would deny them since there's no "Israeli" ethnic belonging.

For the record, the state used to, until the early years of the previous century, write at the ID the nationality/ethnic belonging of the civilian. If Jew Or Arab. Since people, just fully so, claimed that it may point at discrimination, the clause was removed. For years there is no such writings on IDs. So the appeal to the court itself is baseless, which is one of the reasons why they gave them the boot.

Are there different categories of citizenship still then - what I am wondering is - is there now an Israeli nationality and a single Israeli citizenship?
 
  • There is no such thing as “Israeli nationality.” In fact, the Israeli Supreme Court has ruled that recognizing “Israeli nationality” would create a schism between the Jewish people, making them choose between their Jewish identity and their Israeli identity.[13] “[T]he principle of self-determination should, in its view, apply to peoples and not to ‘shreds of peoples’ …”[14] The Israeli Supreme Court quoted a lower court’s reasoning: “One cannot belong to two nationalities. If an Israeli nationality is recognized, members of the Jewish nationality in Israel will have to choose between the two: Are they Israelis, in which case they would not be Jewish; or are they Jewish, in which case they would not be Israeli; the same would apply to members of minority groups [in Israel]. Recognition of such nationality may bring about the national and social disintegration of the entire nation … A separatist trend of splitting the Jewish nations must not be accepted.”[15]
Source: CitizenshipNationalityIsrael/Palestine

If this is true, and there is no such thing as an "Israeli nationality" - what is there?

Are the rights and responsibilities the same?

Oh, I remember this case. Those were a group of delusionists who called the Israeli court to change their ethnic belonging from "Jew" to "Israeli". The court decided that they would deny them since there's no "Israeli" ethnic belonging.

For the record, the state used to, until the early years of the previous century, write at the ID the nationality/ethnic belonging of the civilian. If Jew Or Arab. Since people, just fully so, claimed that it may point at discrimination, the clause was removed. For years there is no such writings on IDs. So the appeal to the court itself is baseless, which is one of the reasons why they gave them the boot.

Are there different categories of citizenship still then - what I am wondering is - is there now an Israeli nationality and a single Israeli citizenship?

That's a good question, which has more to do with self-definition than anything else.
 
Is there any such thing as an Israeli Citizen?

Citizenship is divided - there are Arab Israeli citizens and Jewish Israeli citizens.

Do any other countries have a divided citizenship based on ethnic groups? (I don't know of any)

Can a society have true equality if it has different categories of citizenship? Does that not in and of itself foster an atmosphere of inequality?

I think yes, and I think it creates a subconscious belief that some citizens are better than others and this is reinforced in a system of citizenship that gives different rights and obligations to each group. It strives for a "different but equal" system, but I don't think that can truly work.





What about your own American divided citizenship then. You have the following divided citizen groups

Afro American
Caribbean American
Irish American
Indian American
Arab American
Pakistani American
Scots American
Japanese American
Asian American

To name but a few.

Accept I don't think it's the same thing. That's how groups "self identify" - there is an all encompassing American citizenship and nationality - they are the same. Each enthnicity has the exact same rights and the exact same responsibilities in law under one citizenship category.

Is it the same for Israel?


But I think you are getting at the two states in existence that have two governments, and trying to slip in your usual anti Jew rhetoric over Palestine.


Looks like you lost again in your attacks on the Jews.



By the way the arab Israeli's have the same rights as the Jewish Israelis UNDER ISREALI LAW
[/QUOTE]

If the Arab Israelis had the same rights as Israeli Jews under the Israeli law, they could marry other Palestinians from the occupied territories and live in Israel as a married couple, just as Israeli Jews can do when they marry a Jew from another country. Not to mention many of the other 50 discriminatory laws that apply to non-Jewish citizens of Israel

"The law was first passed in 2003, and extended in 2008, and forbids Palestinians married to Israelis from living in Israel, or becoming Israeli citizens."

Israel Extends Integration Ban On Arabs Married To Israelis

and

"Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians"

- See more at: Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians
 
If the Arab Israelis had the same rights as Israeli Jews under the Israeli law, they could marry other Palestinians from the occupied territories and live in Israel as a married couple, just as Israeli Jews can do when they marry a Jew from another country. Not to mention many of the other 50 discriminatory laws that apply to non-Jewish citizens of Israel

"The law was first passed in 2003, and extended in 2008, and forbids Palestinians married to Israelis from living in Israel, or becoming Israeli citizens."

Israel Extends Integration Ban On Arabs Married To Israelis

and

"Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians"

- See more at: Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians

From the link in connection to Israelis married to Arabs:

"It was further explained that the law was first introduced as what was referred to as a “temporary security measure” which would only last for a year, while aiming to prevent “potential terrorists” coming into Israel through marriage."


What has changed about Arab-Moslem terrorists coming into Israel?


I was hoping you could tell us about the systems in place across the Arab-Moslem occupied territories of Gaza and the West Bank dealing with the Jewish population in those areas.
 
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  • #48
Is there any such thing as an Israeli Citizen?

Citizenship is divided - there are Arab Israeli citizens and Jewish Israeli citizens.

Do any other countries have a divided citizenship based on ethnic groups? (I don't know of any)

Can a society have true equality if it has different categories of citizenship? Does that not in and of itself foster an atmosphere of inequality?

I think yes, and I think it creates a subconscious belief that some citizens are better than others and this is reinforced in a system of citizenship that gives different rights and obligations to each group. It strives for a "different but equal" system, but I don't think that can truly work.





What about your own American divided citizenship then. You have the following divided citizen groups

Afro American
Caribbean American
Irish American
Indian American
Arab American
Pakistani American
Scots American
Japanese American
Asian American

To name but a few.

Accept I don't think it's the same thing. That's how groups "self identify" - there is an all encompassing American citizenship and nationality - they are the same. Each enthnicity has the exact same rights and the exact same responsibilities in law under one citizenship category.

Is it the same for Israel?


But I think you are getting at the two states in existence that have two governments, and trying to slip in your usual anti Jew rhetoric over Palestine.


Looks like you lost again in your attacks on the Jews.



By the way the arab Israeli's have the same rights as the Jewish Israelis UNDER ISREALI LAW
If the Arab Israelis had the same rights as Israeli Jews under the Israeli law, they could marry other Palestinians from the occupied territories and live in Israel as a married couple, just as Israeli Jews can do when they marry a Jew from another country. Not to mention many of the other 50 discriminatory laws that apply to non-Jewish citizens of Israel

"The law was first passed in 2003, and extended in 2008, and forbids Palestinians married to Israelis from living in Israel, or becoming Israeli citizens."

Israel Extends Integration Ban On Arabs Married To Israelis

and

"Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians"

- See more at: Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians

Exactly, rights aren't equal, they are determined by ethnicity, thus citizenship isn't equal.
 
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  • #49
If the Arab Israelis had the same rights as Israeli Jews under the Israeli law, they could marry other Palestinians from the occupied territories and live in Israel as a married couple, just as Israeli Jews can do when they marry a Jew from another country. Not to mention many of the other 50 discriminatory laws that apply to non-Jewish citizens of Israel

"The law was first passed in 2003, and extended in 2008, and forbids Palestinians married to Israelis from living in Israel, or becoming Israeli citizens."

Israel Extends Integration Ban On Arabs Married To Israelis

and

"Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians"

- See more at: Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians

From the link in connection to Israelis married to Arabs:

"It was further explained that the law was first introduced as what was referred to as a “temporary security measure” which would only last for a year, while aiming to prevent “potential terrorists” coming into Israel through marriage."


What has changed about Arab-Moslem terrorists coming into Israel?


I was hoping you could tell us about the systems in place across the Arab-Moslem occupied territories of Gaza and the West Bank dealing with the Jewish population in those areas.
8 million people will vote 'yes' on said question.

Do they? Or, is it only the Jewish citizens?
...most Arabs would like to see a State policy that fits the inclusive citizenship..

Does divided citizenship foster equality or inequality? And how?

I don't know what you mean by "divided citizenship". Arabs with blue ID have the exact same rights I, as a Jew, have, in Israel.

It seems to me like you're trying to make a groundless statement true.
Remember when the Prime Minister of Israel Netanyahu appealed to his base to go vote by saying the dirty Arabs were getting bused to election sites? Now that's equality.

Wow. Talk about twisting the facts, eh?

First, nowhere did he use "dirty" to describe the Arabs, that is just your mean add-on. But never mind that.

And yes, he did say to go voting because the Arabs vote. For the simple reason that Israeli Arabs are naturally on the left wing, and Netanyahu is a rightist leader. It's like a Republican telling Republicans to go and vote since the democratic votes are sky high.

Nothing racist about it.

And I'm not a Likud supporter, btw.

I disagree. I think he knows darn well how fearful many of Israel's Jews are of the Arab citizens, and of any sort of Arab majority. He was playing to that, not the leftwing, when he made those statements. That is bolstered when you also take into account the public opinion poll on that indicated half of Israel's Jews would support expelling Arabs. He was playing to fear and racism in that statement.
 
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  • #50
Here's another question:

Arab Israeli citizens can have their citizenship revoked for supporting terrorism or acting against the state ...but can Jewish Israeli citizens have their citizenship revoked for supporting terrorism?

Here again - citizenship categorized by ethnicity.
 
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  • #51
Israeli citizenship is designed very differently from the American model. Here, if you are born in the country or become an American citizen, you retain your citizenship unless you seek to renounce it. U.S. citizenship is not conditioned on ethnic or religious origin, and every citizen has the same rights and responsibilities.

Most of the world's nations use jus sanguinis (as opposed to jus soli) as a model for citizenship, including the US which uses a combination of both. This model grants citizenship by virtue of the parent's nationality -- thus the child of an American citizen gains the privilege of American citizenship (jus sanguinis). Those born in the US are also granted the privilege of American citizenship, regardless of the parent's nationality (jus soli)

Israel, like nearly every nation in Europe, uses ONLY jus sanguinis -- citizenship is passed from parent to child. This applies to ALL citizens and citizenships equally and is not "conditioned on ethnic or religious origin".

In addition, Israel has created a system whereby the Jewish people are essentially considered to be citizens of Israel. There are many other nations which use ethnicity or cultural origins as an expedited pathway to citizenship in varying degrees, including Croatia, Greece, Ireland, Rwanda, Serbia, Turkey, Spain, South Korea.

That is one of the things I was wondering about.
 
The difference is that a Jew of Irish descent born outside of Ireland, for example, has the same rights to Irish citizenship as a Catholic or Protestant of Irish descent born outside of Ireland. For Israel only those born outside of Israel that practice Judaism have that right. It is not the same thing.
 
Here's another question:

Arab Israeli citizens can have their citizenship revoked for supporting terrorism or acting against the state ...but can Jewish Israeli citizens have their citizenship revoked for supporting terrorism?

Here again - citizenship categorized by ethnicity.

Here's the answer. non of this matters, since it never happened.

For the record, some demanded Yigal Amir's citizenship revoked, too
 
Do any other countries have a divided citizenship based on ethnic groups?

African-Americans.

That's self-identifying. That isn't citizenship.





It is the same thing as you are claiming is in Israel. The arab muslims segregate themselves and make false claims, and you being a good little dhimmi believe their LIES

Actually....

no.

It's a bit more complex than that. I'll give you some time to think about it :)





No it is exactly the same thing, the persons ethnicity is appended to their American citizenship. Just as the persons ethnicity is appended to their Israeli citizenship.

The same rules. laws and strictures apply equally to arab Israeli citizens as they do to the Jewish Israelis, apart from forced military conscription.


You are trying to start another blood libel attack on the Jews and have ended up with egg on your face, your imam will not be pleased at your lack of progress
 
  • There is no such thing as “Israeli nationality.” In fact, the Israeli Supreme Court has ruled that recognizing “Israeli nationality” would create a schism between the Jewish people, making them choose between their Jewish identity and their Israeli identity.[13] “[T]he principle of self-determination should, in its view, apply to peoples and not to ‘shreds of peoples’ …”[14] The Israeli Supreme Court quoted a lower court’s reasoning: “One cannot belong to two nationalities. If an Israeli nationality is recognized, members of the Jewish nationality in Israel will have to choose between the two: Are they Israelis, in which case they would not be Jewish; or are they Jewish, in which case they would not be Israeli; the same would apply to members of minority groups [in Israel]. Recognition of such nationality may bring about the national and social disintegration of the entire nation … A separatist trend of splitting the Jewish nations must not be accepted.”[15]
Source: CitizenshipNationalityIsrael/Palestine

If this is true, and there is no such thing as an "Israeli nationality" - what is there?

Are the rights and responsibilities the same?

Oh, I remember this case. Those were a group of delusionists who called the Israeli court to change their ethnic belonging from "Jew" to "Israeli". The court decided that they would deny them since there's no "Israeli" ethnic belonging.

For the record, the state used to, until the early years of the previous century, write at the ID the nationality/ethnic belonging of the civilian. If Jew Or Arab. Since people, just fully so, claimed that it may point at discrimination, the clause was removed. For years there is no such writings on IDs. So the appeal to the court itself is baseless, which is one of the reasons why they gave them the boot.

Are there different categories of citizenship still then - what I am wondering is - is there now an Israeli nationality and a single Israeli citizenship?





Isnt that down to how the people themselves feel, as we have seen in recent months many arab Israeli's do not see themselves as Israeli citizens or nationals but as arab Palestinians living in Israel. To this end they will travel to Palestine to register their cars ( different coloured licence plates ), have their ethnicity and religion placed on their documants ( not a legal requirement ) and proclaim their Palestinian nationality.

To the Jewish legal system they are still Israeli citizens and are welcome to all the benefits of Israeli citizenship. They are not seen as anything but Israeli's
 
Is there any such thing as an Israeli Citizen?

Citizenship is divided - there are Arab Israeli citizens and Jewish Israeli citizens.

Do any other countries have a divided citizenship based on ethnic groups? (I don't know of any)

Can a society have true equality if it has different categories of citizenship? Does that not in and of itself foster an atmosphere of inequality?

I think yes, and I think it creates a subconscious belief that some citizens are better than others and this is reinforced in a system of citizenship that gives different rights and obligations to each group. It strives for a "different but equal" system, but I don't think that can truly work.





What about your own American divided citizenship then. You have the following divided citizen groups

Afro American
Caribbean American
Irish American
Indian American
Arab American
Pakistani American
Scots American
Japanese American
Asian American

To name but a few.

Accept I don't think it's the same thing. That's how groups "self identify" - there is an all encompassing American citizenship and nationality - they are the same. Each enthnicity has the exact same rights and the exact same responsibilities in law under one citizenship category.

Is it the same for Israel?


But I think you are getting at the two states in existence that have two governments, and trying to slip in your usual anti Jew rhetoric over Palestine.


Looks like you lost again in your attacks on the Jews.



By the way the arab Israeli's have the same rights as the Jewish Israelis UNDER ISREALI LAW

If the Arab Israelis had the same rights as Israeli Jews under the Israeli law, they could marry other Palestinians from the occupied territories and live in Israel as a married couple, just as Israeli Jews can do when they marry a Jew from another country. Not to mention many of the other 50 discriminatory laws that apply to non-Jewish citizens of Israel

"The law was first passed in 2003, and extended in 2008, and forbids Palestinians married to Israelis from living in Israel, or becoming Israeli citizens."

Israel Extends Integration Ban On Arabs Married To Israelis

and

"Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians"

- See more at: Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians[/QUOTE]




That law applies to all Israeli's, including the Jews if you read your link.

The second is a housing association rule not unlike those imposed in the US
 
Is there any such thing as an Israeli Citizen?

Citizenship is divided - there are Arab Israeli citizens and Jewish Israeli citizens.

Do any other countries have a divided citizenship based on ethnic groups? (I don't know of any)

Can a society have true equality if it has different categories of citizenship? Does that not in and of itself foster an atmosphere of inequality?

I think yes, and I think it creates a subconscious belief that some citizens are better than others and this is reinforced in a system of citizenship that gives different rights and obligations to each group. It strives for a "different but equal" system, but I don't think that can truly work.





What about your own American divided citizenship then. You have the following divided citizen groups

Afro American
Caribbean American
Irish American
Indian American
Arab American
Pakistani American
Scots American
Japanese American
Asian American

To name but a few.

Accept I don't think it's the same thing. That's how groups "self identify" - there is an all encompassing American citizenship and nationality - they are the same. Each enthnicity has the exact same rights and the exact same responsibilities in law under one citizenship category.

Is it the same for Israel?


But I think you are getting at the two states in existence that have two governments, and trying to slip in your usual anti Jew rhetoric over Palestine.


Looks like you lost again in your attacks on the Jews.



By the way the arab Israeli's have the same rights as the Jewish Israelis UNDER ISREALI LAW
If the Arab Israelis had the same rights as Israeli Jews under the Israeli law, they could marry other Palestinians from the occupied territories and live in Israel as a married couple, just as Israeli Jews can do when they marry a Jew from another country. Not to mention many of the other 50 discriminatory laws that apply to non-Jewish citizens of Israel

"The law was first passed in 2003, and extended in 2008, and forbids Palestinians married to Israelis from living in Israel, or becoming Israeli citizens."

Israel Extends Integration Ban On Arabs Married To Israelis

and

"Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians"

- See more at: Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians

Exactly, rights aren't equal, they are determined by ethnicity, thus citizenship isn't equal.





The law applies to both Jews and arabs if you read the link in full, so how is it determined by ethnicity
 
If the Arab Israelis had the same rights as Israeli Jews under the Israeli law, they could marry other Palestinians from the occupied territories and live in Israel as a married couple, just as Israeli Jews can do when they marry a Jew from another country. Not to mention many of the other 50 discriminatory laws that apply to non-Jewish citizens of Israel

"The law was first passed in 2003, and extended in 2008, and forbids Palestinians married to Israelis from living in Israel, or becoming Israeli citizens."

Israel Extends Integration Ban On Arabs Married To Israelis

and

"Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians"

- See more at: Israeli Supreme Court upholds law allowing housing discrimination against Palestinians

From the link in connection to Israelis married to Arabs:

"It was further explained that the law was first introduced as what was referred to as a “temporary security measure” which would only last for a year, while aiming to prevent “potential terrorists” coming into Israel through marriage."


What has changed about Arab-Moslem terrorists coming into Israel?


I was hoping you could tell us about the systems in place across the Arab-Moslem occupied territories of Gaza and the West Bank dealing with the Jewish population in those areas.
8 million people will vote 'yes' on said question.

Do they? Or, is it only the Jewish citizens?
...most Arabs would like to see a State policy that fits the inclusive citizenship..

Does divided citizenship foster equality or inequality? And how?

I don't know what you mean by "divided citizenship". Arabs with blue ID have the exact same rights I, as a Jew, have, in Israel.

It seems to me like you're trying to make a groundless statement true.
Remember when the Prime Minister of Israel Netanyahu appealed to his base to go vote by saying the dirty Arabs were getting bused to election sites? Now that's equality.

Wow. Talk about twisting the facts, eh?

First, nowhere did he use "dirty" to describe the Arabs, that is just your mean add-on. But never mind that.

And yes, he did say to go voting because the Arabs vote. For the simple reason that Israeli Arabs are naturally on the left wing, and Netanyahu is a rightist leader. It's like a Republican telling Republicans to go and vote since the democratic votes are sky high.

Nothing racist about it.

And I'm not a Likud supporter, btw.

I disagree. I think he knows darn well how fearful many of Israel's Jews are of the Arab citizens, and of any sort of Arab majority. He was playing to that, not the leftwing, when he made those statements. That is bolstered when you also take into account the public opinion poll on that indicated half of Israel's Jews would support expelling Arabs. He was playing to fear and racism in that statement.






HEY I don't live in Israel and I am fearfull of the arab citizens of my country after witnessing their violence first hand. I doubt that very many people in Europe aren't fearful of the arabs invading in their millions at the moment. Many nationalist movements are playing on that in Europe and seem to be winning the day. You are insulated in the US because you only have two land borders and miles of Ocean between you and the outside world otherwise you would now have a 10% muslim population and be facing daily violence and riots
 
The difference is that a Jew of Irish descent born outside of Ireland, for example, has the same rights to Irish citizenship as a Catholic or Protestant of Irish descent born outside of Ireland. For Israel only those born outside of Israel that practice Judaism have that right. It is not the same thing.






Of course it isn't as Israel has only existed for 67 years, Ireland has been around for 300 years. Yet I know of many muslims that are Irish citizens who have no ties to Ireland what so ever.

By the way I am part Irish but I cant claim Irish citizenship under existing laws, showing that your post is a pack of LIES. There is no automatic citizenship to an Irish person born outside of Ireland unless they are born while outside the country.
 
Here's another question:

Arab Israeli citizens can have their citizenship revoked for supporting terrorism or acting against the state ...but can Jewish Israeli citizens have their citizenship revoked for supporting terrorism?

Here again - citizenship categorized by ethnicity.

Here's the answer. non of this matters, since it never happened.

For the record, some demanded Yigal Amir's citizenship revoked, too




The real answer is that only those with dual nationality can have their citizenship revoked, and because most arab muslims also have Palestinian nationality they can be deported
 

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