FBI calls our President a LIAR"

[OKTexas]

When penalties are attached it's force and yes I have qualified health care as you do.

Nobody is forced to have Obamacare....only insurance

Obamacare IS about insurance. That's my big problem with it...it does nothing to improve patient care, just makes them have insurance.

Same problem I have with the Republican's plans. A truly Progressive plan would improve health care, not focus on who pays the rich doctors.

Everyone is afraid of taking on the insurance companies

I would threaten them with single payer.....and mean it

No, we're not afraid of taking on the insurance companies.

We just don't see them as being this grand evil, that you do.

What we are afriad of, is massive wait time, lists of dead people waiting for VA treatment, becoming the norm for all citizens due to idiotic warped socialists pushing a system that has failed the world over.

Socialist programs blended and coordinated into capitalist systems have worked well in countries all over the world, including the USA.

Yeah, that why they're all going broke, look at the US, 20 trillion in debt with 120 trillion in unfunded liabilities, all because of the socialist programs. 70% of our money is already spent before the fist budget proposal is made.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Andylusion, post: 16876720

All of the problems in our society today, are almost universally caused by those social programs.

Almost all you say? Was the invasion of Iraq a Socialist problem or a consequence of Capitalism joined at the hip with Conservatism?

I recall zero of the far left socialists supporting the Invasion of Iraq.

That invasion cost more lives and Federal treasure than decades of Federal social programs welfare spending combined.

Pretty big problem that invasion was and still costs us.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

OKTexas, post: 16876728

Yeah, that why they're all going broke, look at the US, 20 trillion in debt with 120 trillion in unfunded liabilities, all because of the socialist programs. 70% of our money is already spent before the fist budget proposal is made.

We have not had a depression since Social Security was enacted. And Bush 43 inherited budget surpluses from Clinton, and then he cut taxes mostly for the wealthy and started a needless war and by the end of his second term gave us the biggest recession since the Great Depression.

We now thanks to Obama are back to near full employment. There are problems with the economy for sure but nothing near the way it wa in January 2009.

Cutting taxes for the rich? Trump's next move since he could not do it by ripping apart the ACA, will lead, if history sets precedent, to another flirtation with going through another Great Recession.

The clueless in this country have left the wolves to guard the sheep.

And the alligators are refilling the swamp.

 

[OKTexas]

OKTexas, post: 16876728

Yeah, that why they're all going broke, look at the US, 20 trillion in debt with 120 trillion in unfunded liabilities, all because of the socialist programs. 70% of our money is already spent before the fist budget proposal is made.

We have not had a depression since Social Security was enacted. And Bush 43 inherited budget surpluses from Clinton, and then he cut taxes mostly for the wealthy and started a needless war and by the end of his second term gave us the biggest recession since the Great Depression.

We now thanks to Obama are back to near full employment. There are problems with the economy for sure but nothing near the way it wa in January 2009.

Cutting taxes for the rich? Trump's next move since he could not do it by ripping apart the ACA, will lead, if history sets precedent, to another flirtation with going through another Great Recession.

The clueless in this country have left the wolves to guard the sheep.

And the alligators are refilling the swamp.

Child, you can't get a handle on federal spending when 70% is mandatory off budget spending. Add another half trillion, and rising, to service the debt and the debt drives itself. The only way to get the budget under control is to address the programs that drive 70% of the spending. As for your childish class warfare, shove it, I ain't buying.

 

[Andylusion]

Andylusion, post: 16876720

All of the problems in our society today, are almost universally caused by those social programs.

Almost all you say? Was the invasion of Iraq a Socialist problem or a consequence of Capitalism joined at the hip with Conservatism?

I recall zero of the far left socialists supporting the Invasion of Iraq.

That invasion cost more lives and Federal treasure than decades of Federal social programs welfare spending combined.

Pretty big problem that invasion was and still costs us.

None of the problems we are facing were caused by the Iraq War.

I'm talking about government pushing sub-prime loans, and crashing the economy.
I'm talking about minimum wage laws, that drove people out of jobs.
I'm talking about banking regulations that incentivized banks to make bad loans.
I'm talking about health care programs that drive up the cost of health care on society.
Insurance regulations that force people into insurance plans that cost 3 times as much, and cover things they don't need.

The Iraq war didn't cause any of that. The Iraq war was one of the few things the Federal government is supposed to be doing, providing defense for the nation.

 

[Andylusion]

OKTexas, post: 16876728

Yeah, that why they're all going broke, look at the US, 20 trillion in debt with 120 trillion in unfunded liabilities, all because of the socialist programs. 70% of our money is already spent before the fist budget proposal is made.

We have not had a depression since Social Security was enacted. And Bush 43 inherited budget surpluses from Clinton, and then he cut taxes mostly for the wealthy and started a needless war and by the end of his second term gave us the biggest recession since the Great Depression.

We now thanks to Obama are back to near full employment. There are problems with the economy for sure but nothing near the way it wa in January 2009.

Cutting taxes for the rich? Trump's next move since he could not do it by ripping apart the ACA, will lead, if history sets precedent, to another flirtation with going through another Great Recession.

The clueless in this country have left the wolves to guard the sheep.

And the alligators are refilling the swamp.

First, the economy was in decline when Bush became president.

Fact: The last year of Bill Clinton, was economic decline.

Income tax revenue was FALLING before the tax cut. Income tax revenue INCREASED after the tax cut.

Fact: tax revenue increased after the tax cut.

You can not rationally, and logically, claim the tax cut caused the deficits.

The whole reason why we had that recession, was due to Obama's policies. He didn't save us from a recession, he caused it.

 

[RASTAMEN]

Nobody is forced to have Obamacare....only insurance

Obamacare IS about insurance. That's my big problem with it...it does nothing to improve patient care, just makes them have insurance.

Same problem I have with the Republican's plans. A truly Progressive plan would improve health care, not focus on who pays the rich doctors.

Everyone is afraid of taking on the insurance companies

I would threaten them with single payer.....and mean it

No, we're not afraid of taking on the insurance companies.

We just don't see them as being this grand evil, that you do.

What we are afriad of, is massive wait time, lists of dead people waiting for VA treatment, becoming the norm for all citizens due to idiotic warped socialists pushing a system that has failed the world over.

Socialist programs blended and coordinated into capitalist systems have worked well in countries all over the world, including the USA.

You are factually incorrect.

All of the problems in our society today, are almost universally caused by those social programs.

Same is true around the world.

Its the free market rip off you must be referring to.

 

[Andylusion]

Obamacare IS about insurance. That's my big problem with it...it does nothing to improve patient care, just makes them have insurance.

Same problem I have with the Republican's plans. A truly Progressive plan would improve health care, not focus on who pays the rich doctors.

Everyone is afraid of taking on the insurance companies

I would threaten them with single payer.....and mean it

No, we're not afraid of taking on the insurance companies.

We just don't see them as being this grand evil, that you do.

What we are afriad of, is massive wait time, lists of dead people waiting for VA treatment, becoming the norm for all citizens due to idiotic warped socialists pushing a system that has failed the world over.

Socialist programs blended and coordinated into capitalist systems have worked well in countries all over the world, including the USA.

You are factually incorrect.

All of the problems in our society today, are almost universally caused by those social programs.

Same is true around the world.

Its the free market rip off you must be referring to.

Which explains why the Chinese (up till 78) were living in luxury! They were not being ripped off by the market! Those mud huts were the best. Too bad they are stuck in those apartments now.

Reminds me of Singapore, before they instituted capitalism, they had a large chunk of the population living on boats in the river, with people exposing their butts to take a dump off the side of the boat.

Hate those new high rise apartments. So much worse now that they are being ripped off by the market system.

Idiots. You people have no idea how good you have it in this capitalist based economy. Living in your left-tard warped fantasy that you have it so bad. Idiots all of you.

 

[hunarcy]

OKTexas, post: 16876728

Yeah, that why they're all going broke, look at the US, 20 trillion in debt with 120 trillion in unfunded liabilities, all because of the socialist programs. 70% of our money is already spent before the fist budget proposal is made.

We have not had a depression since Social Security was enacted. And Bush 43 inherited budget surpluses from Clinton, and then he cut taxes mostly for the wealthy and started a needless war and by the end of his second term gave us the biggest recession since the Great Depression.

We now thanks to Obama are back to near full employment. There are problems with the economy for sure but nothing near the way it wa in January 2009.

Cutting taxes for the rich? Trump's next move since he could not do it by ripping apart the ACA, will lead, if history sets precedent, to another flirtation with going through another Great Recession.

The clueless in this country have left the wolves to guard the sheep.

And the alligators are refilling the swamp.

First, the economy was in decline when Bush became president.

View attachment 118618
Fact: The last year of Bill Clinton, was economic decline.

View attachment 118619
Income tax revenue was FALLING before the tax cut. Income tax revenue INCREASED after the tax cut.

Fact: tax revenue increased after the tax cut.

You can not rationally, and logically, claim the tax cut caused the deficits.

The whole reason why we had that recession, was due to Obama's policies. He didn't save us from a recession, he caused it.

Well, that's just not correct. The recession started BEFORE Obama's election. I don't agree that Obama had us "near full employment" because so many people had dropped out of the workforce because they had given up looking. Those people are now trying to come back into the workforce, showing they didin't want to "not work" so you can't claim they shouldn't have been counted. While Obama's approach did steady the decline, it did little to improve the situation.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

hunarcy, post: 16891361

I don't agree that Obama had us "near full employment" because so many people had dropped out of the workforce because they had given up looking.

The BLS calculates the unemployment rate exactly the same way they always do, it's not a case that you can disagree with it.

Obama got the UR from ten to five percent in half the time Romney said that he could do it if elected in 2012.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Andylusion, post: 16880904

The whole reason why we had that recession, was due to Obama's policies. He didn't save us from a recession, he caused it

The recession began in 2007.

Your graphs do not apply to what I wrote.

Here it is again. Do you have a coherent response:

"We have not had a depression since Social Security was enacted. And Bush 43 inherited budget surpluses from Clinton, and then he cut taxes mostly for the wealthy and started a needless war and by the end of his second term gave us the biggest recession since the Great Depression."


What did I write that is not true?

Blaming Obama for a recession that began in 2007 is bull crap.

 

[Andylusion]

OKTexas, post: 16876728

Yeah, that why they're all going broke, look at the US, 20 trillion in debt with 120 trillion in unfunded liabilities, all because of the socialist programs. 70% of our money is already spent before the fist budget proposal is made.

We have not had a depression since Social Security was enacted. And Bush 43 inherited budget surpluses from Clinton, and then he cut taxes mostly for the wealthy and started a needless war and by the end of his second term gave us the biggest recession since the Great Depression.

We now thanks to Obama are back to near full employment. There are problems with the economy for sure but nothing near the way it wa in January 2009.

Cutting taxes for the rich? Trump's next move since he could not do it by ripping apart the ACA, will lead, if history sets precedent, to another flirtation with going through another Great Recession.

The clueless in this country have left the wolves to guard the sheep.

And the alligators are refilling the swamp.

First, the economy was in decline when Bush became president.

View attachment 118618
Fact: The last year of Bill Clinton, was economic decline.

View attachment 118619
Income tax revenue was FALLING before the tax cut. Income tax revenue INCREASED after the tax cut.

Fact: tax revenue increased after the tax cut.

You can not rationally, and logically, claim the tax cut caused the deficits.

The whole reason why we had that recession, was due to Obama's policies. He didn't save us from a recession, he caused it.

Well, that's just not correct. The recession started BEFORE Obama's election. I don't agree that Obama had us "near full employment" because so many people had dropped out of the workforce because they had given up looking. Those people are now trying to come back into the workforce, showing they didin't want to "not work" so you can't claim they shouldn't have been counted. While Obama's approach did steady the decline, it did little to improve the situation.

With landmark lawsuit, Barack Obama pushed banks to give subprime loans to Chicago’s African-Americans

In 1995, Obama working as a civil lawyer, filed against Citibank, forcing them to lower qualification standards of loans.

This are sub-prime loans. Which led to the sub-prime bubble, and ultimately the bust.

Obama’s New Economic Advisor Defended Subprime Lending | TIME.com

One of Obama's economic advisors even defended sub-prime lending:

When contemplating ways to prevent excessive mortgages for the 13 percent of subprime borrowers whose loans go sour, regulators must be careful that they do not wreck the ability of the other 87 percent to obtain mortgages.
For be it ever so humble, there really is no place like home, even if it does come with a balloon payment mortgage.​

Moreover, Obama himself said sub-prime loans were a good idea. (which is consistent with the fact he forced banks to make them with law suits).

So without a doubt, this was an Obama policy, even before getting in office.

 

[Andylusion]

Andylusion, post: 16880904

The whole reason why we had that recession, was due to Obama's policies. He didn't save us from a recession, he caused it

The recession began in 2007.

Your graphs do not apply to what I wrote.

Here it is again. Do you have a coherent response:

"We have not had a depression since Social Security was enacted. And Bush 43 inherited budget surpluses from Clinton, and then he cut taxes mostly for the wealthy and started a needless war and by the end of his second term gave us the biggest recession since the Great Depression."


What did I write that is not true?

Blaming Obama for a recession that began in 2007 is bull crap.

When the recession began is irrelevant.

For those who have repaired a home before, the wood rot that forces you to replace the entire floor, didn't happen the day you pull up the carpet. It was a leak from the window that rotted the wood, over the past 10 years, that rotted the floor.

Yes, the economy crashed, when the sub-prime bubble burst. The only economic policy of GWB, that could have had an additional effect, was the minimum wage hike, which started in.... 2007.

But the sub-prime bubble, is a different story. We know when that started.

The sub-prime housing bubble started in 1997, under Clinton.

Between Freddie Mac guaranteeing sub-prime loans in 1997, and the Clinton administration starting lawsuits against banks to force them to make sub-prime loans... this is why we had a housing bubble.

That's all there is to it. You need to look at the evidence, not just "when the crap hits the fan".

Most things in life operate this way. Your marriage doesn't break down, overnight. It's years of you neglecting your spouse. Your kids don't end up in jail overnight. It's years of you failing to instill morals of right and wrong.

Economically, most policies do not fail the week they are implemented. Its usually months, even years, before they fail. Greece didn't implode overnight. It was decades of borrowing and spending, over and over, until they own so much money, they have no hope of paying it back.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

When the recession began is irrelevant.

You said it began under Obama. Now it skipped the entire Bush Administration and began under Clinton.

Guess Bush can't take responsibility for anything.

Bush's tax cuts did not produce a damn thing but more debt and the huge recession of 2007 2008.

Isn't it a President's duty to fix rotten wood when it's known to be wet. If you don't blame Bush it is impossible to blame Obama.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Between Freddie Mac guaranteeing sub-prime loans in 1997, and the Clinton administration starting lawsuits against banks to force them to make sub-prime loans... this is why we had a housing bubble.

So Bush was not aware of what was going on?

Just play dumb and blame it on Democrats.

Is that Republican standard practice?

 

[postman]

So Bush was not aware of what was going on?

Just play dumb and blame it on Democrats.

Is that Republican standard practice?

They blamed the Iraq war of March 2003 on the democrats too.

 

[Andylusion]

When the recession began is irrelevant.

You said it began under Obama. Now it skipped the entire Bush Administration and began under Clinton.

Guess Bush can't take responsibility for anything.

Bush's tax cuts did not produce a damn thing but more debt and the huge recession of 2007 2008.

Isn't it a President's duty to fix rotten wood when it's known to be wet. If you don't blame Bush it is impossible to blame Obama.

Quote where I said, it began under Obama's presidency.

I didn't say that. Let me help you out.
"The whole reason why we had that recession, was due to Obama's policies. He didn't save us from a recession, he caused it."

Was due to Obama's policies. Sub-prime loans were in facts his policies. We know this because he sued banks to push that policy, before he was ever president. And I proved that.

Guess Bush can't take responsibility for anything.

Well, if you go to the doctor tomorrow, and find a cancerous tumor growing in your lungs, would you blame last nights dinner, or conclude it was more likely something after the last year or two?

The price bubble started in 1997. I proved that. It's not up for discussion or debate. It's a fact.

Are you going to blame Bush who wasn't in office until 2001, for a price bubble that started in 1997? If Bush was in office in the 90s, and Bill Clinton was in off in 2001-08, would you be blaming Clinton given the bubble started in 1997?

The only thing I can for certain blame on Bush, was the minimum wage hike. Isn't it odd that the bubble continued year after year, until 2007, and that just happened.... just by luck or chance, to be the very year we hiked the minimum wage? And isn't it interesting that the recession got worse and worse, year over year until 2009.... and oddly the minimum wage hike was phased in over ..... three years! $5.25, 2007- $5.85, 2008- $6.55, 2009- $7.25. How odd that the recession only started to recover the very year we stopped jacking up the minimum wage, 2010.

So, yeah, I'll blame Bush for that.

But the massive Sub-prime crash... that's all on Clinton and Obama. They pushed for it, they got it, they crashed it.

Bush's tax cuts did not produce a damn thing but more debt and the huge recession of 2007 2008.

Factually incorrect.

Before the Bush tax cuts, tax revenue was falling. No tax cut, tax revenue going down.
After the Bush tax cuts, tax revenue was increasing. Tax cuts, tax revenue going up.

This is also known as a "Fact". Not debatable.

For you to claim that a policy which increased revenue, that replaced a policy which decreased revenue.... is somehow the cause of deficits.... is stupid.

Moreover, with, or without the tax cuts, the crash caused by the sub-prime bust, and the minimum wage laws, would have happened. To claim that in your mythical mindless world, that without the tax cuts, we would have budget surpluses all during a massive economy crippling recession, is also plain stupid.

Isn't it a President's duty to fix rotten wood when it's known to be wet. If you don't blame Bush it is impossible to blame Obama.

You are assuming it was known to be wet.
It wasn't.

The democrats fought every attempt to change the housing problem, because they didn't see it as a problem.



Here's one example. The Republican sounded the warning over and over, and every single Democrat (on this video at least), not only scoffed at the warning, but openly defended bad practices, and supported that idiot Franklin Raines who said "these assets are so riskless..." which of course now that Fannie and Freddie turned out to be the largest bailouts of any bank during the entire crisis, proved that moron wrong.



While Bush's administration did push to regulate, they were opposed at every turn.



Even in 2005, after the Democrats largely defeated the Bush administration at completely re-regulating and reducing the size of Fannie and Freddie.... he openly said... there is no housing bubble.

Which if you look at my graph, by 2005 the bubble was already at a catastrophic size.

Now, highly doubt that Bush knew how bad the bubble was, but he did know there was a problem, and sounded warnings. The Democraps opposed him at every turn.

So I'll tell you what.... when you preach that Bush should take responsibility for his part, you need to own up to the Democraps part. Not only did they start the bubble, but they opposed ever attempt to fix it.

Personally I don't think any fix would have worked. Once the bubble is started, the only possible result is a crash.

But you want to cry that Bush should have known.... well he did know and tried to fix it. You people opposed it. Own up to your own failures first. Then cry about others.

 

[Reasonable]

You have no information that supports the thread title.

Let me see

If you make a claim that is not supported by the facts...you are a LIAR

No, a person is a liar when their statement is refuted by the evidence, and the level of evidence needed depends on the forum in question.

WHAT? Lol
Want the evidence of about 10,000 lies of the liar in chief?

 

[Reasonable]

Anyone see the story about Bush walking away from the inauguration and saying loud enough for people to hear him:::" THATS SOME CRAZY SHIT."
True dat.

 

[Reasonable]

Where does Trump go from here?

1. Admit he lied
2. Admit he is too stupid to recognize unsubstantiated conspiracy theories
3. Continue to lie

Laugh at loons like you and continue being POTUS is my guess

You are correct

Trump does laugh at those who object to his lying

You start out a thread with a lie and then wail about liars.

Think hard

So the Russian-wingers excuse Trump once again...

Grow up already, you loons and this Russian narrative is getting tiresome, four months and not one iota of proof. Hell even dem leadership is backing off of it

Man... has reality kicked your ass and proven you to be a liar.