Free-Market Environmentalism.

[PoliticalChic]

Isn't it wonderful when an environmentalist activist behaves like Rip Van Winkle, and suddenly wakes up??


1. Professor Wallace Kaufman, former environmentalist activist and president of several environmentalist groups, has had an epiphany.

He sees what the 'green movement' really is, and, in his book "No Turning Back," he discusses his problems with the 'left turn.'


He was interviewed at Mountain Xpress, @https://mountainx.com/opinion/0726price-php/


2. "InNo Turning Back,Kaufman addresses assorted other environmental topics. I asked him about one much-contested topic in the debate over the future of the planet — global warming, and what we should do about it. “Science is not a democratic process where we all vote on what we think the right answer is,” he replied. “Science is the hard job of pinning down facts. We do know that there is more carbon dioxide in the air; that’s a fact.

“Let’s assume that there is a warming of the planet. First question is, what are the most economically efficient ways of cutting back on carbon-dioxide production? The Kyoto protocols have certainly not produced, from what I’ve seen, economically efficient ways. We’ve spent billions of dollars, and we cut back on a very tiny proportion of carbon dioxide — and, in terms of what effect this might have on actual temperature rise, it’s almost nil.

But it’s very sexy, politically, for Al Gore to say, ‘I went to Kyoto and I got an agreement, and we’re going to cut back X percent of CO<->2<-> emissions.’ What he’s not saying is how much this will affect world temperature. Because the effect is tiny.

I don’t pretend to know how to make a real reduction in CO<->2<->, but we have time to make that decision. Sea level is not going to rise and consume New York City tomorrow. I think most scientists and climatologists think we don’t have enough data to determine how we make the reductions, and they believe we have the time to find those solutions.”


One myth down the drain.





3. "...here in the pages ofMountain Xpress,readers are bombarded with letters and commentaries blasting the over-consuming, materialistic culture that’s rapidly depleting our mineral and other natural resources.

Kaufman, however, takes a different perspective. When confronted with the statistic that the United States has 6 percent of the world’s population, yet accounts for 50 percent of the world’s resource use, he says: “The first thing to recognize is that we are not just using the resources up; we are transforming them into goods that people all over the world use. It’s not as though 50 percent of the world’s resources are brought to America and never leave again.

Nevertheless, on a per capita basis, Americans do consume five to 10 times what is consumed in a developing country. Is that bad? You would have to demonstrate that we’re taking these things away from those people. That is not demonstrable. Are we actually using up a particular resource? We are not using them up — or, at least, not as fast as some people thought — because the price is getting cheaper, for most things."





4. And what path should society take? Environmentalists see the totalitarian answer, with government controls, regulation and taxation based on the wisdom of bureaucrats and technocrats, and academics.

We on the Right accept the wisdom of the populace, as revealed in the capitalist system.....and guess what? So does environmental ex-pat Kaufman!


5. “If the free market is allowed to operate, the price will reflect the scarcity of particular resources, and there will be the incentive for people to develop alternatives. It’s happened throughout history. You can’t say we can’t do it; of course we can.

As oil becomes more expensive in the next 50 years, fuel cells — which are already in the works — are going to become more competitive. That happened when wood got scarce in a lot of countries; people began to find coal and oil. Solar power may, at some point, become competitive. Even the vast stores of coal may be turned into a benign type of gas.

What people in the environmental community always do is they take a given trend and they say, ‘Oh, look, 50 years from now, following that trend line, it’s going to be a disaster.’ But there’s no trend line in history that has continued in the same curve ad infinitum. As things become more or less expensive, people adapt, and they abandon something for something else.”


OK....now that we've shown that there is no need for the 'environmental movement'....let's move on.

 

[PoliticalChic]

6. And, again, Kaufman endorses the miracles of the free-market:

"Another common theme in the environmental community (and on bumper stickers) is, ‘Live simply so that others may simply live.’ But, once again, Kaufman charts his own course:

“Most of the people in the world are living simply already. ... It would be much better if they all had jobs and were producing something. The living-simply thing is based on the notion that, if you’re not consuming gasoline or trees, they’re available for somebody else, somewhere in the world. That’s a little bit like saying that the food I leave on my plate could be used for some hungry person in Armenia.


In fact, the more Americans consume, the more likely there are to be jobs in other countries in the world, to produce the things we consume.

If people start consuming things in the same quantities as Americans, either people will plant more of those things (if it’s trees), or they will turn to substitutes, like plastic lumber. We used to have to grow 2 acres of hay for every horse, but we don’t do that anymore, because we have cars. So lots of the old pastures are now growing up in trees. Allow the market to put the real costs on products, and substitutes will be found.”
An environmentalist comes out of the woods Mountain Xpress




What????

Don't allow the brilliant bureaucrats and academics to decide how we should live????

Kaufman just dealt a death blow to both environmentalism and Progressivism!
Wadda guy!

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Kaufman just dealt a death blow to both environmentalism and Progressivism!
Wadda guy!

He dealt it a death blow?

Awesomesauce, I was getting tired of listening to the anti-GW crowd tell us one minute that the world is not getting warmer and the next that it is, but it is not man-made.

Your threads in particular are so hard to decipher, that I just kind of "guess" what your position is, then reply accordingly.

 

[Old Rocks]

PoliticalShit has no position. She hardly has the intellect to see that nonsense she pastes contradicts other paste jobs in the same post. Just Frankie Boy with a lot more verbage.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Kaufman just dealt a death blow to both environmentalism and Progressivism!
Wadda guy!

He dealt it a death blow?

Awesomesauce, I was getting tired of listening to the anti-GW crowd tell us one minute that the world is not getting warmer and the next that it is, but it is not man-made.

Your threads in particular are so hard to decipher, that I just kind of "guess" what your position is, then reply accordingly.

"Your threads in particular are so hard to decipher..."

I'm gonna suggest that you could learn much from Shakespeare...this quote in particular:
"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves,..."

 

[PoliticalChic]

PoliticalShit has no position. She hardly has the intellect to see that nonsense she pastes contradicts other paste jobs in the same post. Just Frankie Boy with a lot more verbage.

Wash your mouth out, creep.

 

[Old Rocks]

I just cuss a little, I don't engage in the continual partisan lying that you do.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Kaufman just dealt a death blow to both environmentalism and Progressivism!
Wadda guy!

He dealt it a death blow?

Awesomesauce, I was getting tired of listening to the anti-GW crowd tell us one minute that the world is not getting warmer and the next that it is, but it is not man-made.

Your threads in particular are so hard to decipher, that I just kind of "guess" what your position is, then reply accordingly.

"Your threads in particular are so hard to decipher..."

I'm gonna suggest that you could learn much from Shakespeare...this quote in particular:
"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves,..."

Shakespeare makes sense - your threads on the other hand...

 

[PoliticalChic]

I just cuss a little, I don't engage in the continual partisan lying that you do.

I never lie.

And I was brought up a good deal better than a vulgar oaf like you.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Kaufman just dealt a death blow to both environmentalism and Progressivism!
Wadda guy!

He dealt it a death blow?

Awesomesauce, I was getting tired of listening to the anti-GW crowd tell us one minute that the world is not getting warmer and the next that it is, but it is not man-made.

Your threads in particular are so hard to decipher, that I just kind of "guess" what your position is, then reply accordingly.

"Your threads in particular are so hard to decipher..."

I'm gonna suggest that you could learn much from Shakespeare...this quote in particular:
"The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars,
But in ourselves,..."

Shakespeare makes sense - your threads on the other hand...

You're lying.

The posts make clear what Wallace Kaufman explained about the fallacious "environmental movement."



Why post if you are going to lie?

Could it be that you disagree with my posts, but lack the ability to contend with same?

 

[PoliticalChic]

7. How about the land-grab by government in the name of environmental protection — such as setting aside forests and wilderness areas?

What does this environmental activist have to say about that?
Doesn't Progressive government, based on bureaucrats and academics, produce the best results, i.e., save the environment????





“Government ownership often creates problems that private ownership would never put up with,” he maintains. “I think about what I want to do about my forest here, when I get too old to take care of it. I would hate to see it cut over, and I thought about donating it to local government. I took a walk around Jordan Lake and it was so full of trash, I thought, ‘My God, that’s the last thing I want to happen to my forest!’ I’d rather leave it to my daughter, or give a conservation easement to a group like the Nature Conservancy.


“When I came back from the former Soviet Union and told my friends what a disaster had happened to the environment there, they would say, ‘Well, it was a good system, it was just abused.’ They say that about government ownership here.



.... a lot of the complaints people have about pollution of the rivers is not from hog farmers but from municipal sewerage systems. When you have a democratic government, you are putting the management of the commons at the will of the political forces. Everybody decries how often vested interests control government policy, and yet they want to put all these parks and lands at risk politically by allowing the government to control it — and, therefore, [allowing] whoever is most politically powerful to have the say.”
An environmentalist comes out of the woods Mountain Xpress



Our new BFF, Kaufman, recognized the fallacy of big government!

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

You're lying.

The posts make clear what Wallace Kaufman explained about the fallacious "environmental movement."

Why post if you are going to lie?

Could it be that you disagree with my posts, but lack the ability to contend with same?

I lied, eh? How is it that I "lied?"

I called you out because you are one of the most inane posters I have ever had the displeasure of attempting to follow. If you spent less time trying to impress people with flowery phrases and completely ostentatious, over-written, poppycock, I would have some kind of idea what you are peddling.

I have yet to ever even begin to understand a single thing you have ever written.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You're lying.

The posts make clear what Wallace Kaufman explained about the fallacious "environmental movement."

Why post if you are going to lie?

Could it be that you disagree with my posts, but lack the ability to contend with same?

I lied, eh? How is it that I "lied?"

I called you out because you are one of the most inane posters I have ever had the displeasure of attempting to follow. If you spent less time trying to impress people with flowery phrases and completely ostentatious, over-written, poppycock, I would have some kind of idea what you are peddling.

I have yet to ever even begin to understand a single thing you have ever written.

"I have yet to ever even begin to understand a single thing you have ever written."

Well, then....either you're lying, or you're really, really stupid.

I'll stipulate to whichever you claim.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

You're lying.

The posts make clear what Wallace Kaufman explained about the fallacious "environmental movement."

Why post if you are going to lie?

Could it be that you disagree with my posts, but lack the ability to contend with same?

I lied, eh? How is it that I "lied?"

I called you out because you are one of the most inane posters I have ever had the displeasure of attempting to follow. If you spent less time trying to impress people with flowery phrases and completely ostentatious, over-written, poppycock, I would have some kind of idea what you are peddling.

I have yet to ever even begin to understand a single thing you have ever written.

"I have yet to ever even begin to understand a single thing you have ever written."

Well, then....either you're lying, or you're really, really stupid.

I'll stipulate to whichever you claim.

Correct - lying and stupid.

Too much of a muscle head to participate in your "Badlands collection" threads.

Bye!

 

[PoliticalChic]

8. Our environmentalist buddies often instruct us to learn from tribes that live in harmony with Mother Nature.....

Well...how about all we can learn from the 'noble savages,' the indigenous peoples, who respected the land and were careful to use only what they needed, so there would be enough for future generations?

How about it, Professor Kaufman.....or it just one more myth????



“Where is wilderness being preserved most assiduously? It’s in the Western, civilized countries. You can say there’s a lot of wilderness in Papua New Guinea and the Amazon basin, but nobody’s preserving it there. The indigenous people never had any particular intent to preserve it; they simply didn’t have the means to destroy it. Their survival depends on concentrated attention to economic benefits.


There have been lots of anthropological studies [showing] that, given the opportunity to wipe out the last few game animals rather than go hunt somewhere else and let the local population recover, the native people will take the short-term view, wipe out the local fauna, and move on.


There’s no pagan respect for nature, or preservation of wild things.


It’s only in more developed, affluent countries that there’s a move to preserve nature or have the science to understand it. Indigenous people didn’t have nearly the understanding we have of population dynamics, of diseases in wild species, [of] mating patterns and migrations. The Mayans never knew where all those songbirds spent the summer. But we do, and [we] have the scientific foundations for preserving wilderness — and the money and the leisure to be interested in doing it.”
An environmentalist comes out of the woods Mountain Xpress



Yup.
And another myth bites the dust.

 

[PoliticalChic]

So Professor Kaufman, once an environmental activist, has seen the light!


9. " My idea is conciliation. I could get people from the liberal side of the spectrum to consider hard science and economic incentives. And I could get people from the conservative side to consider more of the noneconomic values and how to deal with those. And also how to involve people from other walks of life in these things. I think we all do have a common interest. We just have to evaluate the means and put aside ideology.


“I find more and more of my friends who I knew back in the ’70s are willing to consider these new ideas and find them interesting. Maybe I’m getting better at getting my message across. A lot of the writers in the regional press are locked into a certain point of view, and they don’t even know the existence of other points of view. Therefore, they may be good journalists and [not] even know of the existence of people like Dan Botkin [a highly respected ecologist who’s the author of Discordant Harmonies], or others. They don’t consult them, and therefore, don’t get an alternative view.”


For information on free-market environmentalism, Kaufman directs me to a Web site: PERC The Property and Environment Research Center The Political Economy Research Center tackles a multitude of environmental issues, such as suburban sprawl, managing the nation’s wilderness areas, genetically modified foods — all from the perspective of the free market and hard science."
An environmentalist comes out of the woods Mountain Xpress




Poor Professor Kaufman is in for a shock: he will not be able to get Liberals to consider facts, or evidence, or political reality.
That's the nature of Liberals.


"They first deceive themselves that they are sincere in their adherence to falsehoods. Thus they cannot be faulted for acting on genuinely held views. But in truth, they have cultivated an ignorance of the facts, what Thomas Aquinas calledignorantia affectata.An ignorance so useful that one protects it at all costs, in order to continue using it in one’s own self interest. This ignorance is not exculpatory, but inculpatory. Forgive them not, for they know full well what they do."
RICHARD BADALAMENTE

 

[mamooth]

It's fun to poke the loony and watch her spin round and round. A couple words is all it takes to get her to spend vast amounts of time composing yet another masterpiece of gibberish that nobody will look at.

 

[initforme]

Polluting water and air should be an offense that follows suit with a huge fine... one that deters the polluter from willfully doing it again. Otherwise our air resembles that of China, you know, the kind you have to walk around with a mask to breathe. As human beings although most of us are not rich, despite what the all powerful corporations believe to be the contrary, we are entitled, yes entitled, to have safe air and water. To think there are those out there that believe differently is truly bizarre and anti human, anti life.

 

[PoliticalChic]

It's fun to poke the loony and watch her spin round and round. A couple words is all it takes to get her to spend vast amounts of time composing yet another masterpiece of gibberish that nobody will look at.

".... that nobody will look at."

Yet, here you are.


You should only open your mouth to change feet.

 

[initforme]

PC, why do you never mention the anti environmentalists though, you know the corporations who fight every environmental regulation? They are just as bad. They would like clean water regulations rolled way back. Imagine letting them willfully taint your drinking water. Should we accept that? I see those people as anti American myself. Nobody should have the right to pollute water.