Gun violence in the world

[Cecilie1200]

couldnt help but notice

that in several really violent countries

the data was left blank

That's because they couldn't count that fast.

 

[Cecilie1200]

And don't forget.....as the guy on Red Eye, the host, pointed out....Europe has led the world in concentration camps.....and death camps...let's never forget that....

And starting world wars.

 

[Brain357]

Your real world defense of the survey numbers is the survey? You are a joke. Again the millions estimated in the survey aren't real. Your defense is fantasy.

Millions of defenses is not possible. You realize there are only about 9.8 million crimes each year right? And about 24% of the population owns guns. So thats about 2.35 million crimes against gun owners. And about 88% of crimes are property crimes where the victim isn't even there so now we are at about 282k crimes that could be defended. Of those only like 1/3 of violent crimes are at home. And only about 16% of gun owners carry. So that leaves only about 120k that are defendable. Then they of course aren't 100% successful in defense so the real number is clearly under 120k. The ncvs estimate of 108k is looking pretty solid. Backed by actual stats from the real world.

Let's try to discover what you find to be unbelievable.

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find unbelievable?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's unbelievable?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's unbelievable? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 3,000,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 41,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 80,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 126,000,000 criminal attempts each year; or 345,000 criminal attempts a day; or 14,000 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 35 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really unbeleivable, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's unbelievable?

Now that you know we have only about 10% of the crime you thought, shouldn't your dgu estimate now be 10% of what it was? So 100-200k?

Amazing you lack the common sense to not realize over a 100 million crimes was ridiculous. Great job embarrassing yourself cupcake.

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find impossible?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's impossible?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's impossible? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 2,800,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 16,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 48,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 53,600,000 criminal attempts each year; or 147,000 criminal attempts a day; or 6,125 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 16 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really impossible, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's impossible?

Back to making up numbers? Don't be so pathetic. Please link support for your crazy claim. Fbi and ncvs are way below your fantasy claims for attempted crimes. You really lack common sense.

You're just an asshole that's doesn't click links.

I "made up" no numbers. Not ever. You just refuse to accept that they are valid... validated by your preferred sources.

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Seems Americans are not on board with the gun grabbers....

According to the latest poll by Rasmussen Reports, American voters “overwhelmingly” prefer to live in neighborhoods with high gun ownership, as opposed to areas that don’t allow firearms.

The polling shows 68 percent of Americans “would feel safer” living in a neighborhood where firearms are readily available. Meanwhile, that number for those who want gun-free neighborhoods are much lower:

“A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 22% of Likely U.S. Voters would feel safer living in a neighborhood where nobody was allowed to own a gun over one where they could have a gun for their own protection.”

I live in a neighborhood of military and retired military families. It's amazing how clean and quiet and peaceful our area is. And the realtor websites all list the crime rate in our area as "very low".

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Seems Americans are not on board with the gun grabbers....

According to the latest poll by Rasmussen Reports, American voters “overwhelmingly” prefer to live in neighborhoods with high gun ownership, as opposed to areas that don’t allow firearms.

The polling shows 68 percent of Americans “would feel safer” living in a neighborhood where firearms are readily available. Meanwhile, that number for those who want gun-free neighborhoods are much lower:

“A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 22% of Likely U.S. Voters would feel safer living in a neighborhood where nobody was allowed to own a gun over one where they could have a gun for their own protection.”

I live in a neighborhood of military and retired military families. It's amazing how clean and quiet and peaceful our area is. And the realtor websites all list the crime rate in our area as "very low".

Someone would be a fool to break into the home of a gun owner who is trained and not afraid to use it

 

[2aguy]

Let's try to discover what you find to be unbelievable.

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find unbelievable?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's unbelievable?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's unbelievable? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 3,000,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 41,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 80,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 126,000,000 criminal attempts each year; or 345,000 criminal attempts a day; or 14,000 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 35 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really unbeleivable, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's unbelievable?

Now that you know we have only about 10% of the crime you thought, shouldn't your dgu estimate now be 10% of what it was? So 100-200k?

Amazing you lack the common sense to not realize over a 100 million crimes was ridiculous. Great job embarrassing yourself cupcake.

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find impossible?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's impossible?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's impossible? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 2,800,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 16,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 48,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 53,600,000 criminal attempts each year; or 147,000 criminal attempts a day; or 6,125 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 16 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really impossible, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's impossible?

Back to making up numbers? Don't be so pathetic. Please link support for your crazy claim. Fbi and ncvs are way below your fantasy claims for attempted crimes. You really lack common sense.

You're just an asshole that's doesn't click links.

I "made up" no numbers. Not ever. You just refuse to accept that they are valid... validated by your preferred sources.

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

 

[Brain357]

Now that you know we have only about 10% of the crime you thought, shouldn't your dgu estimate now be 10% of what it was? So 100-200k?

Amazing you lack the common sense to not realize over a 100 million crimes was ridiculous. Great job embarrassing yourself cupcake.

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find impossible?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's impossible?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's impossible? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 2,800,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 16,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 48,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 53,600,000 criminal attempts each year; or 147,000 criminal attempts a day; or 6,125 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 16 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really impossible, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's impossible?

Back to making up numbers? Don't be so pathetic. Please link support for your crazy claim. Fbi and ncvs are way below your fantasy claims for attempted crimes. You really lack common sense.

You're just an asshole that's doesn't click links.

I "made up" no numbers. Not ever. You just refuse to accept that they are valid... validated by your preferred sources.

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible. Millions isn't mathematically possible.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Americans have been fed the lie that gun ownership keeps them safe for so long that they refuse to believe otherwise despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

You folks are scared to death of terrorists but fail to recognize that you are in more danger of being shot by a friend, neighbour or family member with a gun than being killed by a terrorist.

You forgot the other, and more likely, option: being killed by a garden-variety street criminal . . . which is why we like owning guns.

 

[Brain357]

Now that you know we have only about 10% of the crime you thought, shouldn't your dgu estimate now be 10% of what it was? So 100-200k?

Amazing you lack the common sense to not realize over a 100 million crimes was ridiculous. Great job embarrassing yourself cupcake.

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find impossible?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's impossible?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's impossible? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 2,800,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 16,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 48,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 53,600,000 criminal attempts each year; or 147,000 criminal attempts a day; or 6,125 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 16 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really impossible, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's impossible?

Back to making up numbers? Don't be so pathetic. Please link support for your crazy claim. Fbi and ncvs are way below your fantasy claims for attempted crimes. You really lack common sense.

You're just an asshole that's doesn't click links.

I "made up" no numbers. Not ever. You just refuse to accept that they are valid... validated by your preferred sources.

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

Millions of defenses is not possible. You realize there are only about 9.8 million crimes each year right? And about 24% of the population owns guns. So thats about 2.35 million crimes against gun owners. And about 88% of crimes are property crimes where the victim isn't even there so now we are at about 282k crimes that could be defended. Of those only like 1/3 of violent crimes are at home. And only about 16% of gun owners carry. So that leaves only about 120k that are defendable. Then they of course aren't 100% successful in defense so the real number is clearly under 120k. The ncvs estimate of 108k is looking pretty solid. Backed by actual stats from the real world.

 

[2aguy]

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find impossible?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's impossible?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's impossible? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 2,800,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 16,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 48,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 53,600,000 criminal attempts each year; or 147,000 criminal attempts a day; or 6,125 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 16 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really impossible, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's impossible?

Back to making up numbers? Don't be so pathetic. Please link support for your crazy claim. Fbi and ncvs are way below your fantasy claims for attempted crimes. You really lack common sense.

You're just an asshole that's doesn't click links.

I "made up" no numbers. Not ever. You just refuse to accept that they are valid... validated by your preferred sources.

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

Millions of defenses is not possible. You realize there are only about 9.8 million crimes each year right? And about 24% of the population owns guns. So thats about 2.35 million crimes against gun owners. And about 88% of crimes are property crimes where the victim isn't even there so now we are at about 282k crimes that could be defended. Of those only like 1/3 of violent crimes are at home. And only about 16% of gun owners carry. So that leaves only about 120k that are defendable. Then they of course aren't 100% successful in defense so the real number is clearly under 120k. The ncvs estimate of 108k is looking pretty solid. Backed by actual stats from the real world.

brain...you are making up that number from your ass........the NCVS is not a gun study and never asks about defensive gun use...in the whole study....and they don't even get accurate counts on the crimes they actually ask about....

And by 9.8 million crimes you mean crimes that not only succeed but are reported to the police....not the crimes that never happen because the victim used a gun to stop them before they were completed or were never reported in the first place....right?

 

[2aguy]

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find impossible?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's impossible?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's impossible? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 2,800,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 16,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 48,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 53,600,000 criminal attempts each year; or 147,000 criminal attempts a day; or 6,125 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 16 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really impossible, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's impossible?

Back to making up numbers? Don't be so pathetic. Please link support for your crazy claim. Fbi and ncvs are way below your fantasy claims for attempted crimes. You really lack common sense.

You're just an asshole that's doesn't click links.

I "made up" no numbers. Not ever. You just refuse to accept that they are valid... validated by your preferred sources.

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible. Millions isn't mathematically possible.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible.

Wrong....it is the only study that give a number that low by not asking about guns......the other studies are done by actual researchers, both private and government, over 40 years....at least 19 of them done by separate researchers....and they actually ask about gun use....go figure......

 

[Brain357]

Back to making up numbers? Don't be so pathetic. Please link support for your crazy claim. Fbi and ncvs are way below your fantasy claims for attempted crimes. You really lack common sense.

You're just an asshole that's doesn't click links.

I "made up" no numbers. Not ever. You just refuse to accept that they are valid... validated by your preferred sources.

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

Millions of defenses is not possible. You realize there are only about 9.8 million crimes each year right? And about 24% of the population owns guns. So thats about 2.35 million crimes against gun owners. And about 88% of crimes are property crimes where the victim isn't even there so now we are at about 282k crimes that could be defended. Of those only like 1/3 of violent crimes are at home. And only about 16% of gun owners carry. So that leaves only about 120k that are defendable. Then they of course aren't 100% successful in defense so the real number is clearly under 120k. The ncvs estimate of 108k is looking pretty solid. Backed by actual stats from the real world.

brain...you are making up that number from your ass........the NCVS is not a gun study and never asks about defensive gun use...in the whole study....and they don't even get accurate counts on the crimes they actually ask about....

And by 9.8 million crimes you mean crimes that not only succeed but are reported to the police....not the crimes that never happen because the victim used a gun to stop them before they were completed or were never reported in the first place....right?

Ncvs is a crime study. You need a crime for a dgu.

Ncvs collects unreported crimes. Should we use those numbers instead?

Your millions is not possible and you have nothing from reality to support it.

 

[Brain357]

Back to making up numbers? Don't be so pathetic. Please link support for your crazy claim. Fbi and ncvs are way below your fantasy claims for attempted crimes. You really lack common sense.

You're just an asshole that's doesn't click links.

I "made up" no numbers. Not ever. You just refuse to accept that they are valid... validated by your preferred sources.

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible. Millions isn't mathematically possible.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible.

Wrong....it is the only study that give a number that low by not asking about guns......the other studies are done by actual researchers, both private and government, over 40 years....at least 19 of them done by separate researchers....and they actually ask about gun use....go figure......

And the vast majority of gun studies say it is less than your claimed 2million. Your biggest la times study doesn't seem to exist. The next biggest wasn't even a national study. Nothing from reality supports your claims. They are not even mathematically possible given our crime rates.

 

[2aguy]

You're just an asshole that's doesn't click links.

I "made up" no numbers. Not ever. You just refuse to accept that they are valid... validated by your preferred sources.

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible. Millions isn't mathematically possible.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible.

Wrong....it is the only study that give a number that low by not asking about guns......the other studies are done by actual researchers, both private and government, over 40 years....at least 19 of them done by separate researchers....and they actually ask about gun use....go figure......

And the vast majority of gun studies say it is less than your claimed 2million. Your biggest la times study doesn't seem to exist. The next biggest wasn't even a national study. Nothing from reality supports your claims. They are not even mathematically possible given our crime rates.

The average is 2 million brain....the L.A. Times...probably not on the internet...it was done in the 90s. Those studies were done by actual researchers, economists and criminologists and even the guys who did the clinton Dept. of Justice study said the number of times guns were used for self defense was 1.5 million a year.......so 2 million is not unreasonable given the number of studies that put the number over 1 million and those that put it over 2 million a year.

 

[Cecilie1200]

"The key facts are:

• The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people
• But the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people"

Gun homicides and gun ownership listed by country News The Guardian

So we have the highest gun ownership in the world, but despite that NOT the highest gun murder rate. We're 28th in the world in fact.

So how is gun availability linked to gun violence? It isn't. Simple as that.

Apples and antelopes isn't a comparison of worth. Compare the US with other Western Democracies and get back to us.

And of course you fail to point out that Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives 2million times a year on Average...that is 2 million fewer lives shattered by violent criminals.....

2 million crimes stopped vs.

Accidental gun deaths 2013...505

Gun murders 2013....8,454


Which number is bigger? Even you should be able to do that math...

Let's do the math. According to you, 2 million crimes are stopped by guns a year. Given there are 365 days in a year, you are saying that 5480 per day are prevented or about 230 an hour....230 an hour....every hour of every day of the year.

I think we can stop considering you to be a serious commentator at this point.

In a nation of 300 million people, where the FBI tells us that a violent crime is committed every 25.3 seconds? Why do you find this hard to believe?

FBI Crime Clock

 

[LOki]

Let's try to discover what you find to be unbelievable.

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find unbelievable?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's unbelievable?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's unbelievable? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 3,000,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 41,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 80,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 126,000,000 criminal attempts each year; or 345,000 criminal attempts a day; or 14,000 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 35 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really unbeleivable, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's unbelievable?

Now that you know we have only about 10% of the crime you thought, shouldn't your dgu estimate now be 10% of what it was? So 100-200k?

Amazing you lack the common sense to not realize over a 100 million crimes was ridiculous. Great job embarrassing yourself cupcake.

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find impossible?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's impossible?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's impossible? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 2,800,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 16,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 48,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 53,600,000 criminal attempts each year; or 147,000 criminal attempts a day; or 6,125 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 16 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really impossible, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's impossible?

Back to making up numbers? Don't be so pathetic. Please link support for your crazy claim. Fbi and ncvs are way below your fantasy claims for attempted crimes. You really lack common sense.

You're just an asshole that's doesn't click links.

I "made up" no numbers. Not ever. You just refuse to accept that they are valid... validated by your preferred sources.

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

My numbers aren't crazy, and you're just an asshole.

 

[LOki]

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find impossible?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's impossible?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's impossible? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 2,800,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 16,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 48,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 53,600,000 criminal attempts each year; or 147,000 criminal attempts a day; or 6,125 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 16 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really impossible, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's impossible?

Back to making up numbers? Don't be so pathetic. Please link support for your crazy claim. Fbi and ncvs are way below your fantasy claims for attempted crimes. You really lack common sense.

You're just an asshole that's doesn't click links.

I "made up" no numbers. Not ever. You just refuse to accept that they are valid... validated by your preferred sources.

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible. Millions isn't mathematically possible.

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find impossible?

Is it impossible that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's impossible?

It shouldn't be.

Is it impossible that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's impossible?

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 2,800,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 16,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 48,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 53,600,000 criminal attempts each year; or 147,000 criminal attempts a day; or 6,125 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 16 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really impossible, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's impossible?

 

[LOki]

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find impossible?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's impossible?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's impossible? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 2,800,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 16,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 48,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 53,600,000 criminal attempts each year; or 147,000 criminal attempts a day; or 6,125 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 16 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really impossible, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's impossible?

Back to making up numbers? Don't be so pathetic. Please link support for your crazy claim. Fbi and ncvs are way below your fantasy claims for attempted crimes. You really lack common sense.

You're just an asshole that's doesn't click links.

I "made up" no numbers. Not ever. You just refuse to accept that they are valid... validated by your preferred sources.

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

Millions of defenses is not possible. You realize there are only about 9.8 million crimes each year right? And about 24% of the population owns guns. So thats about 2.35 million crimes against gun owners. And about 88% of crimes are property crimes where the victim isn't even there so now we are at about 282k crimes that could be defended. Of those only like 1/3 of violent crimes are at home. And only about 16% of gun owners carry. So that leaves only about 120k that are defendable. Then they of course aren't 100% successful in defense so the real number is clearly under 120k. The ncvs estimate of 108k is looking pretty solid. Backed by actual stats from the real world.

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find impossible?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's impossible?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's impossible? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 2,800,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 16,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 48,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 53,600,000 criminal attempts each year; or 147,000 criminal attempts a day; or 6,125 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 16 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really impossible, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's impossible?

 

[LOki]

You're just an asshole that's doesn't click links.

I "made up" no numbers. Not ever. You just refuse to accept that they are valid... validated by your preferred sources.

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

Millions of defenses is not possible. You realize there are only about 9.8 million crimes each year right? And about 24% of the population owns guns. So thats about 2.35 million crimes against gun owners. And about 88% of crimes are property crimes where the victim isn't even there so now we are at about 282k crimes that could be defended. Of those only like 1/3 of violent crimes are at home. And only about 16% of gun owners carry. So that leaves only about 120k that are defendable. Then they of course aren't 100% successful in defense so the real number is clearly under 120k. The ncvs estimate of 108k is looking pretty solid. Backed by actual stats from the real world.

brain...you are making up that number from your ass........the NCVS is not a gun study and never asks about defensive gun use...in the whole study....and they don't even get accurate counts on the crimes they actually ask about....

And by 9.8 million crimes you mean crimes that not only succeed but are reported to the police....not the crimes that never happen because the victim used a gun to stop them before they were completed or were never reported in the first place....right?

Ncvs is a crime study. You need a crime for a dgu.

Ncvs collects unreported crimes. Should we use those numbers instead?

Your millions is not possible and you have nothing from reality to support it.

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find impossible?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's impossible?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's impossible? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 2,800,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 16,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 48,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 53,600,000 criminal attempts each year; or 147,000 criminal attempts a day; or 6,125 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 16 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really impossible, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's impossible?

 

[LOki]

You're just an asshole that's doesn't click links.

I "made up" no numbers. Not ever. You just refuse to accept that they are valid... validated by your preferred sources.

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible. Millions isn't mathematically possible.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible.

Wrong....it is the only study that give a number that low by not asking about guns......the other studies are done by actual researchers, both private and government, over 40 years....at least 19 of them done by separate researchers....and they actually ask about gun use....go figure......

And the vast majority of gun studies say it is less than your claimed 2million. Your biggest la times study doesn't seem to exist. The next biggest wasn't even a national study. Nothing from reality supports your claims. They are not even mathematically possible given our crime rates.

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find impossible?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's impossible?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's impossible? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 2,800,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 16,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 48,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 53,600,000 criminal attempts each year; or 147,000 criminal attempts a day; or 6,125 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 16 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really impossible, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's impossible?