Gun violence in the world

[LOki]

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible. Millions isn't mathematically possible.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible.

Wrong....it is the only study that give a number that low by not asking about guns......the other studies are done by actual researchers, both private and government, over 40 years....at least 19 of them done by separate researchers....and they actually ask about gun use....go figure......

And the vast majority of gun studies say it is less than your claimed 2million. Your biggest la times study doesn't seem to exist. The next biggest wasn't even a national study. Nothing from reality supports your claims. They are not even mathematically possible given our crime rates.

The average is 2 million brain....the L.A. Times...probably not on the internet...it was done in the 90s. Those studies were done by actual researchers, economists and criminologists and even the guys who did the clinton Dept. of Justice study said the number of times guns were used for self defense was 1.5 million a year.......so 2 million is not unreasonable given the number of studies that put the number over 1 million and those that put it over 2 million a year.

Indeed. His very own David Hemenway helped design a study that came up with 1.5 million DGUs, which agrees with Kleck and Gertz.

 

[Cecilie1200]

therefore, we can expect mass murder of American citizens after all 300 million + guns in circulation in America have been confiscated?

What, do you want there to be? Do you thrive off of tragedy? Don't you get tired of using dead people to push your agenda?

Dead people make the best human shields, because they can't object.

 

[2aguy]

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible. Millions isn't mathematically possible.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible.

Wrong....it is the only study that give a number that low by not asking about guns......the other studies are done by actual researchers, both private and government, over 40 years....at least 19 of them done by separate researchers....and they actually ask about gun use....go figure......

And the vast majority of gun studies say it is less than your claimed 2million. Your biggest la times study doesn't seem to exist. The next biggest wasn't even a national study. Nothing from reality supports your claims. They are not even mathematically possible given our crime rates.

The average is 2 million brain....the L.A. Times...probably not on the internet...it was done in the 90s. Those studies were done by actual researchers, economists and criminologists and even the guys who did the clinton Dept. of Justice study said the number of times guns were used for self defense was 1.5 million a year.......so 2 million is not unreasonable given the number of studies that put the number over 1 million and those that put it over 2 million a year.

Indeed. His very own David Hemenway helped design a study that came up with 1.5 million DGUs, which agrees with Kleck and Gertz.

It's funny....these anti gunners like hemmenway...and the clinton Justice Dept. guys create studies that come out with numbers as high as 1.5 million times a year...then they spend all their time bad mouthing their own studies and attacking kleck....

if the anti gun extremist left didn't lie....how would they discuss anything?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Americans have been fed the lie that gun ownership keeps them safe for so long that they refuse to believe otherwise despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

You folks are scared to death of terrorists but fail to recognize that you are in more danger of being shot by a friend, neighbour or family member with a gun than being killed by a terrorist.

We're more in danger of dying in a car accident. But I dont see anyone rushing to ban cars.

If you cause mayhem in your car...your insurance pays your victims. We should require gun owners to have the same liability insurance.

OK argue with this:

Estimates over the number of defensive gun uses vary, depending on the study's population, criteria, time-period studied, and other factors. Higher end estimates by Kleck and Gertz show between 1 to 2.5 million DGUs in the United States each year.[1]:64–65[2][3] Low end estimates cited by Hemenway show approximately 55,000-80,000 such uses each year.[4][5] Middle estimates have estimated approximately 1 million DGU incidents in the United States

Defensive gun use - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Even if you accept the mid range estimates 1 million DGU's per year are significant, hell even the low end estimates (55,000-80,000) are significant.

I read a study a few years ago where people who has used guns to defend themselves told their stories of what had happened which were transcribed and read by court judges. The judges based their findings solely on the words of the gun owner and did not interview the anyone else involved. In the vast majority of cases, the judges found that the gun owner was the "aggressor" in these encounters, illegally so, and not the person they were purported defending themselves against.

Gun Threats and Self-Defense Gun Use Harvard Injury Control Research Center Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

If guns were keeping people safe, the US wouldn't have the highest rate of gun deaths in the first world. It's just that simple.

Yes, because everyone in the US has a gun. Oh, wait, they don't!

 

[Wry Catcher]

"The key facts are:

• The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people
• But the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people"

Gun homicides and gun ownership listed by country News The Guardian

So we have the highest gun ownership in the world, but despite that NOT the highest gun murder rate. We're 28th in the world in fact.

So how is gun availability linked to gun violence? It isn't. Simple as that.

Apples and antelopes isn't a comparison of worth. Compare the US with other Western Democracies and get back to us.

And of course you fail to point out that Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives 2million times a year on Average...that is 2 million fewer lives shattered by violent criminals.....

2 million crimes stopped vs.

Accidental gun deaths 2013...505

Gun murders 2013....8,454


Which number is bigger? Even you should be able to do that math...

Let's do the math. According to you, 2 million crimes are stopped by guns a year. Given there are 365 days in a year, you are saying that 5480 per day are prevented or about 230 an hour....230 an hour....every hour of every day of the year.

I think we can stop considering you to be a serious commentator at this point.

In a nation of 300 million people, where the FBI tells us that a violent crime is committed every 25.3 seconds? Why do you find this hard to believe?

FBI Crime Clock

Do the math. 2 million means an average of 228 times per hour for one year.

 

[Wry Catcher]

therefore, we can expect mass murder of American citizens after all 300 million + guns in circulation in America have been confiscated?

What, do you want there to be? Do you thrive off of tragedy? Don't you get tired of using dead people to push your agenda?

Dead people make the best human shields, because they can't object.

I don't want there to be mass murders of innocent people.
Dead people are very poor shields.

Don't you two have anything of substance to post?

 

[2aguy]

Apples and antelopes isn't a comparison of worth. Compare the US with other Western Democracies and get back to us.

And of course you fail to point out that Americans use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives 2million times a year on Average...that is 2 million fewer lives shattered by violent criminals.....

2 million crimes stopped vs.

Accidental gun deaths 2013...505

Gun murders 2013....8,454


Which number is bigger? Even you should be able to do that math...

Let's do the math. According to you, 2 million crimes are stopped by guns a year. Given there are 365 days in a year, you are saying that 5480 per day are prevented or about 230 an hour....230 an hour....every hour of every day of the year.

I think we can stop considering you to be a serious commentator at this point.

In a nation of 300 million people, where the FBI tells us that a violent crime is committed every 25.3 seconds? Why do you find this hard to believe?

FBI Crime Clock

Do the math. 2 million means an average of 228 times per hour for one year.

Wow...you can do math......did you stomp your foot or bark to say the number.....?

 

[2aguy]

therefore, we can expect mass murder of American citizens after all 300 million + guns in circulation in America have been confiscated?

What, do you want there to be? Do you thrive off of tragedy? Don't you get tired of using dead people to push your agenda?

Dead people make the best human shields, because they can't object.

I don't want there to be mass murders of innocent people.
Dead people are very poor shields.

Don't you two have anything of substance to post?

We don't want mass murders of innocent people either .....

In mass shootings at churches where the people are unarmed....15 deaths....

In mass shootings in churches where people have guns....2....

Now tell me who wants fewer people killed in mass shootings...

 

[M14 Shooter]

therefore, we can expect mass murder of American citizens after all 300 million + guns in circulation in America have been confiscated?

What, do you want there to be? Do you thrive off of tragedy? Don't you get tired of using dead people to push your agenda?

Dead people make the best human shields, because they can't object.

I don't want there to be mass murders of innocent people.

Nor does anyone else.

Don't you two have anything of substance to post?

Asks he who ran away from the open and honest debate on gun control that he asked for.

 

[Brain357]

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible. Millions isn't mathematically possible.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible.

Wrong....it is the only study that give a number that low by not asking about guns......the other studies are done by actual researchers, both private and government, over 40 years....at least 19 of them done by separate researchers....and they actually ask about gun use....go figure......

And the vast majority of gun studies say it is less than your claimed 2million. Your biggest la times study doesn't seem to exist. The next biggest wasn't even a national study. Nothing from reality supports your claims. They are not even mathematically possible given our crime rates.

The average is 2 million brain....the L.A. Times...probably not on the internet...it was done in the 90s. Those studies were done by actual researchers, economists and criminologists and even the guys who did the clinton Dept. of Justice study said the number of times guns were used for self defense was 1.5 million a year.......so 2 million is not unreasonable given the number of studies that put the number over 1 million and those that put it over 2 million a year.

You dnt know anything about the times study. Could have been done by anyone.

Link to the DOJ study.

The majority of studies say it is less than 2 million. The ones that say its over are debunked, not national, or don't seem to exist.

It is not mathematically possible based on real crime rates. Your claim is fantasy.

 

[Brain357]

therefore, we can expect mass murder of American citizens after all 300 million + guns in circulation in America have been confiscated?

What, do you want there to be? Do you thrive off of tragedy? Don't you get tired of using dead people to push your agenda?

Dead people make the best human shields, because they can't object.

I don't want there to be mass murders of innocent people.
Dead people are very poor shields.

Don't you two have anything of substance to post?

We don't want mass murders of innocent people either .....

In mass shootings at churches where the people are unarmed....15 deaths....

In mass shootings in churches where people have guns....2....

Now tell me who wants fewer people killed in mass shootings...

Far more people are killed in accidental shootings than mass shootings...

 

[Brain357]

Now that you know we have only about 10% of the crime you thought, shouldn't your dgu estimate now be 10% of what it was? So 100-200k?

Amazing you lack the common sense to not realize over a 100 million crimes was ridiculous. Great job embarrassing yourself cupcake.

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find impossible?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's impossible?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's impossible? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 2,800,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 16,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 48,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 53,600,000 criminal attempts each year; or 147,000 criminal attempts a day; or 6,125 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 16 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really impossible, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's impossible?

Back to making up numbers? Don't be so pathetic. Please link support for your crazy claim. Fbi and ncvs are way below your fantasy claims for attempted crimes. You really lack common sense.

You're just an asshole that's doesn't click links.

I "made up" no numbers. Not ever. You just refuse to accept that they are valid... validated by your preferred sources.

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

My numbers aren't crazy, and you're just an asshole.

Link to anything that supports your crazy numbers. The fbi and the ncvs say your numbers are crazy. You have no common sense.

 

[Brain357]

You are a moron with bad math and no common sense. Ncvs numbers are here:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv12.pdf

They are way below your crazy numbers.

Again...the NCVS is not a gun use study....doesn't even ask about guns...why do you think their gun number is so low.....if you had a soft drink study and you never asked one question about tea...you would get very low numbers for tea as well..

And on top of that...they can't even do the job they are supposed to do.....

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

And another reason to not use the NCVS...they can't even count those things they are actually studying correctly, let alone something like guns that they aren't actually studying...

National Crime Victimization Survey A new report finds that the Justice Department has been undercounting instances of rape and sexual assault.

How helpful, then, that the Justice Department asked the National Research Council (part of the National Academies, which also includes the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of Medicine) to study how successfully the federal government measures rape. The answer has just arrived, in a report out Tuesday with the headline from the press release: “The National Crime Victimization Survey Is Likely Undercounting Rape and Sexual Assault.” We’re not talking about small fractions—we’re talking about the kind of potentially massive underestimate that the military and the Justice Department have warned about for years—and that could be throwing a wrench into the effort to do the most effective type of rape prevention.....

But here are the flaws that call the nice-sounding stats into doubt: The NCVS is designed to measure all kinds of crime victimization. The questions it poses about sexual violence are embedded among questions that ask about lots of other types of crime. For example:

So......the NCVS can't get an accurate account of what it is researching....how do we know this...the numbers are off...

There is, in fact, an existing survey that has many of the attributes the NCVS currently lacks. It’s administered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and it’s called the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. (NISVS is the acronym. Apologies for the alphabet soup.)

NISVS “represents the public health perspective,” as Tuesday’s report puts it, and it asks questions about specific behavior, including whether the survey-taker was unable to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs. NISVS was first conducted in 2010, so it doesn’t go back in time the way the NCVS numbers do. But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault. And the FBI, which collects its data from local law enforcement, and so only counts rapes and attempted rapes that have been reported as crimes, totaled only 85,593 for 2010.

So no....the NCVS is not a tool to understand the use of guns for self defense..........And the most obvious point.......they undercount rape and sexual assault by a vast number compared to an actual study that researches rape and sexual assault....using the same method the anti gunners claim for the number of gun defenses....

But here’s the startling direct comparison between the two measures: NISVS counted 1.27 million total sexual acts of forced penetration for women over the past year (including completed, attempted, and alcohol or drug facilitated).

NCVS counted only 188,380 for rape and sexual assault.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible. Millions isn't mathematically possible.

It is one of the few studies that gives a result that is possible.

Wrong....it is the only study that give a number that low by not asking about guns......the other studies are done by actual researchers, both private and government, over 40 years....at least 19 of them done by separate researchers....and they actually ask about gun use....go figure......

And the vast majority of gun studies say it is less than your claimed 2million. Your biggest la times study doesn't seem to exist. The next biggest wasn't even a national study. Nothing from reality supports your claims. They are not even mathematically possible given our crime rates.

2,000,000 DGU's/year means, 5480 DGUs/day, and that means, 230 DGUs/hour.

So. What do you find impossible?

Is it unbelievable that there are more than 230 metropolitan areas in the United States? Is that what's impossible?

It shouldn't be.

Is it unbelievable that in each metropolitan area, more than one serious crime is attempted every hour? Is that what's impossible? Could be.

Consider that the BJS claims a violent crime is reported at about 2,800,000 a year, and that an estimated 3,000,000+ violent crimes a year go unreported; about 16,000,000 property crimes are reported a year, while an estimated 48,000,000 go unreported.

That's like 53,600,000 criminal attempts each year; or 147,000 criminal attempts a day; or 6,125 attempts each hour.

That's somewhat more than 16 criminal attempts an hour for each metropolitan area.

Is it really impossible, that among all those serious crimes attempted every hour in each of those metropolitan areas, that in only one instance, a person might use a gun to defend themselves, their property, or those they care for? Is that what's impossible?

No source supports your insane numbers. But you are the moron who originally thought we had over a 100 million crimes each year...

 

[2aguy]

therefore, we can expect mass murder of American citizens after all 300 million + guns in circulation in America have been confiscated?

What, do you want there to be? Do you thrive off of tragedy? Don't you get tired of using dead people to push your agenda?

Dead people make the best human shields, because they can't object.

I don't want there to be mass murders of innocent people.
Dead people are very poor shields.

Don't you two have anything of substance to post?

We don't want mass murders of innocent people either .....

In mass shootings at churches where the people are unarmed....15 deaths....

In mass shootings in churches where people have guns....2....

Now tell me who wants fewer people killed in mass shootings...

Far more people are killed in accidental shootings than mass shootings...

Accidental gun deaths in 2013.....505

Out of a country of over 320 million people....with over 11.1 million actually carrying guns for self defense.....

you need help....

 

[Brain357]

What, do you want there to be? Do you thrive off of tragedy? Don't you get tired of using dead people to push your agenda?

Dead people make the best human shields, because they can't object.

I don't want there to be mass murders of innocent people.
Dead people are very poor shields.

Don't you two have anything of substance to post?

We don't want mass murders of innocent people either .....

In mass shootings at churches where the people are unarmed....15 deaths....

In mass shootings in churches where people have guns....2....

Now tell me who wants fewer people killed in mass shootings...

Far more people are killed in accidental shootings than mass shootings...

Accidental gun deaths in 2013.....505

Out of a country of over 320 million people....with over 11.1 million actually carrying guns for self defense.....

you need help....

And there are many fewer mass shooting victims. Your answer to the problem kills more than the problem.

 

[M14 Shooter]

[
Accidental gun deaths in 2013.....505
Out of a country of over 320 million people....with over 11.1 million actually carrying guns for self defense.....

>99.99546% of legally carried guns in the US are not involved in an accidental shooting death.

 

[Brain357]

[
Accidental gun deaths in 2013.....505
Out of a country of over 320 million people....with over 11.1 million actually carrying guns for self defense.....

>99.99546% of legally carried guns in the US are not involved in an accidental shooting death.

And there are way more accidental shooting deaths than mass shooting deaths.

 

[2aguy]

Dead people make the best human shields, because they can't object.

I don't want there to be mass murders of innocent people.
Dead people are very poor shields.

Don't you two have anything of substance to post?

We don't want mass murders of innocent people either .....

In mass shootings at churches where the people are unarmed....15 deaths....

In mass shootings in churches where people have guns....2....

Now tell me who wants fewer people killed in mass shootings...

Far more people are killed in accidental shootings than mass shootings...

Accidental gun deaths in 2013.....505

Out of a country of over 320 million people....with over 11.1 million actually carrying guns for self defense.....

you need help....

And there are many fewer mass shooting victims. Your answer to the problem kills more than the problem.

Criminals, who cannot legally own a gun or carry a gun break the law and killed 8,454 people in 2013

Americans stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives on average 2 million times a year.....

 

[2aguy]

[
Accidental gun deaths in 2013.....505
Out of a country of over 320 million people....with over 11.1 million actually carrying guns for self defense.....

>99.99546% of legally carried guns in the US are not involved in an accidental shooting death.

And there are way more accidental shooting deaths than mass shooting deaths.

not the right comparison brain......you need to compare the number of people who legally own guns and don't break the law and how many accidents they have.....that would actually be accurate, relevant, the truth and reality....

over 90 million homes have guns in them....

in 2013...accidental gun deaths...505

11.1 million people carry guns for self defense...

in 2013..accidental gun deaths...505

Those are actually relevant numbers......apples to apples.....

 

[M14 Shooter]

Americans stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives on average 2 million times a year.....

Even if your number is off by 2 orders of magnitude.... guns are used in self-defense almost 2.5x more often than to commit murder.