Happy 4th of July......Dont forget to thank a Liberal

[Missouri_Mike]

On the anniversary of our country, it is time to remember the greatest liberals of their day........our founding fathers

All men are created equal.....what a liberal concept

If they were so liberal (as defined by today's definition) then why are you all tryin so hard to change the Constitution they wrote?

They're not – see post 178.

indeed, liberals seek to retain the principles enshrined in the Constitution as originally intended by the Framers: that of individual liberty, where the inalienable rights of citizens are paramount, safeguarded by a Constitutional Republic whose citizens are subject solely to the rule of law, not men – as men are incapable of ruling justly; as one's civil liberties are supreme to that of the states or other jurisdictions, and immune to capricious referenda.

Well that's a load of horse shit. There's been nothing but a flood of laws and even laws obie will make up or not enforce at all over the last six years.

Everything that has been passed and every action of the liberals to date has been to get away from the basic principles of the Constitution. Everything you people do is the exact opposite of individual liberty.

Everything you people do is force at the expense of those you MEN are writing laws against. Individual liberty died a long time ago on your side of the aisle.

 

[rightwinger]

On the anniversary of our country, it is time to remember the greatest liberals of their day........our founding fathers

All men are created equal.....what a liberal concept

Correct.

Had those who drew and ratified the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth Amendment or the Fourteenth Amendment known the components of liberty in its manifold possibilities, they might have been more specific. They did not presume to have this insight. They knew times can blind us to certain truths and later generations can see that laws once thought necessary and proper in fact serve only to oppress. As the Constitution endures, persons in every generation can invoke its principles in their own search for greater freedom.

LAWRENCE V. TEXAS

Since the advent of our Nation to today, liberals have fought for the principles acknowledged and codified by the Framers, allowing every generation of Americans to pursue their “search for greater freedom,” opposed by fear, ignorance, and reactionaryism.

So where is this search for greater freedom you are talking about coming from the liberals these days? How is it you think you are for greater freedom when the primary vehicle of delivering your dream state is government force?

Obiecare mandates on healthcare.
Obiecare mandates on abortion.
Increased taxes.
Increased welfare.
Business mandates.
Wage mandates.
Benefit mandates.

I can go on for a long time but tell me where greater freedom comes from anything you people support.

You just don't get it

All implemented by constitutionally elected representatives

 

[Pheonixops]

On the anniversary of our country, it is time to remember the greatest liberals of their day........our founding fathers

All men are created equal.....what a liberal concept

Too bad liberals have forgotten the definition of liberty

Really? Let's see who is more in favor of Liberty between the two of us, issue by issue. This invitation extends to all so-called "freedom loving conservatives".

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Correct.


Since the advent of our Nation to today, liberals have fought for the principles acknowledged and codified by the Framers, allowing every generation of Americans to pursue their “search for greater freedom,” opposed by fear, ignorance, and reactionaryism.

So where is this search for greater freedom you are talking about coming from the liberals these days? How is it you think you are for greater freedom when the primary vehicle of delivering your dream state is government force?

Obiecare mandates on healthcare.
Obiecare mandates on abortion.
Increased taxes.
Increased welfare.
Business mandates.
Wage mandates.
Benefit mandates.

I can go on for a long time but tell me where greater freedom comes from anything you people support.

You just don't get it

All implemented by constitutionally elected representatives

Oh I see, so losing your individual freedoms is ok as long as the government is taking them away and somehow in libtard math that equals you gaining more freedom.

You're a freedom fighter when the government demands you purchase health insurance. You're a freedom minded individual when the government forces you provide abortions on demand against your religious beliefs. And you're just fighting for freedom with more taxes on people that aren't you.

So I suppose I don't "get it" when you proclaim to be for freedom yet all you have to offer is mandates and government force.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

On the anniversary of our country, it is time to remember the greatest liberals of their day........our founding fathers

All men are created equal.....what a liberal concept

Too bad liberals have forgotten the definition of liberty

Really? Let's see who is more in favor of Liberty between the two of us, issue by issue. This invitation extends to all so-called "freedom loving conservatives".

I'll start.

Obiecare mandates you purchase health insurance from the government approved plans they want you to have not what you actually need.

That is freedom? And liberty?

 

[Pheonixops]

Let us examine very briefly whether or not those in 1776 that we have to thank are anything like the modern liberal.

First, they were almost to a man religious, even Thomas Jefferson. Not like today's liberal.

Second, they did and believe people had the right to bare arms, unlike the modern liberal.

Thirdly, they believed in the COTUS, very unlike today's liberals.

Forth, welfare would be a foreign concept, VERY unlike today's liberal.

LOL.

I pray to my God every morning at the beach. I just don't think that my religion should be shoved down other people's throats in the for of laws.

I believe in the right to bear arms. I also think that as long as someone has a valid form of identification (State Driver's license) that show that they are 18 and over, they should be able to purchase a firearm, just like one purchases a six pack of beer.

I think that the COTUS is a great document that provides us with some protections. I would also venture that the ACLU (except for Second Amendment issues) are strong proponents on the COUTUS.

I think that welfare should be finite and in the form of a loan to paid be paid at a very low interest rate and payments. I think that people should be encouraged to find employment, so I disagree with cutting off welfare or unemployment benefits as soon as someone gets a job. I'm in favor of up to a 90 day "crossover" so the people can straighten out what they have to financially and get back on their feet.

 

[Pheonixops]

On the anniversary of our country, it is time to remember the greatest liberals of their day........our founding fathers

All men are created equal.....what a liberal concept

Back then liberal had a very different meaning than Liberal has today. Compare chocolate ice cream and a lump of poop...you'll get the idea.

That's incorrect, just check the dictionary for the meaning of Liberal and I'm willing to bet that your mindset would be adverse to it.

 

[Pheonixops]

I do want to wish everyone a Happy Independence Day

and I especially want to thank all the CLASSICAL "liberals" more properly known, these days, as Conservatives.

That's a bunch of HORSESHIT on your part! Thanks for the laugh!

If they are ALLEGEDLY Liberals, why would they refer to themselves as Conservatives? Really?

 

[Pheonixops]

On the anniversary of our country, it is time to remember the greatest liberals of their day........our founding fathers

All men are created equal.....what a liberal concept

If they were so liberal (as defined by today's definition) then why are you all tryin so hard to change the Constitution they wrote?

LOL, wow dude!

The Constitution made provisions for it to be CHANGED through the Amendment process, thus making it a LIBERAL, Living, and Breathing document. They were FORWARD thinking, they weren't longing for "the good ole days", they wanted CHANGE.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Too bad you cannot substantiate that with any actual facts! As in provide evidence that you have been taxed and have zero representaton.

BTW the FF created a healthcare system for sailors with a mandatory payroll tax deduction very similar to Obamacare. They even had state run hospitals and vouchers for care.

States also supported religion in the 1830's with tax dollars and were never challenged by the federal government.

Healthcare for sailors (involved in international trade) could be seen as being in the perview of the congress (as per the USC).

As to zero factuals.....

The Secretary of HHS can rewrite the regulations to include adjustments and Obama himself has delayed the mandate....all with no congressional agreement.....affecting the tax structure of the law.

And Roberts didn't say the law was a tax.....right.

You utterly failed to substantiate your allegation that you have been taxed without any representation. Instead you threw up smoke screens that have no factual basis. Implementation of legislation has always been left up to the various departments. If there was anything illegal why haven't your representatives held hearings to establish that it occurred instead of the usual RW media misinformation that you are relying upon?

When speaker Nancy Pelosi keeps the Blue dog Democrats tied up in the House without the ability to go home and face their constituents in town hall meetings, there is no representation - period. Congress subjects their will to the people, not the other way around. After all it's the people NOT Congress and the Federal Government that holds the power according to our Founders. It's a fact the liberals who want to see more big government power, fails to really understand.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

On the anniversary of our country, it is time to remember the greatest liberals of their day........our founding fathers

All men are created equal.....what a liberal concept

If they were so liberal (as defined by today's definition) then why are you all tryin so hard to change the Constitution they wrote?

LOL, wow dude!

The Constitution made provisions for it to be CHANGED through the Amendment process, thus making it a LIBERAL, Living, and Breathing document. They were FORWARD thinking, they weren't longing for "the good ole days", they wanted CHANGE.

So you're goal is to change it to what? And at what expense do you want to change it?

 

[jillian]

How is forcing someone to violate their religious beliefs not destroying the first amendment? That's exactly your goal and you want to blame us? Fuck off.

the first amendment gives YOU the right to practice your religion of choice. it does NOT allow you to impose your brand of religion on OTHERS.

THAT is the point. but theocrats have problems with that.

 

[Pheonixops]

Too bad liberals have forgotten the definition of liberty

Really? Let's see who is more in favor of Liberty between the two of us, issue by issue. This invitation extends to all so-called "freedom loving conservatives".

I'll start.

Obiecare mandates you purchase health insurance from the government approved plans they want you to have not what you actually need.

That is freedom? And liberty?

I was never in favor when that plan was originally hatched by the Heritage Foundation, endorsed by not a few republicans, Hillary clinton, et al. In fact Obama ran against her stating that his plan was NOT mandatory. He lost me there because he acted too much like a republican conservative by signing on to that mandate.

Now I will add that the current Administration lost me when they continued and signed certain acts that affect our civil liberties just like the previous Administration did. Once again he's acting just like "them". NO THANKS. Where did you stand when the previous Administration passed the patriot act?

 

[Pheonixops]

If they were so liberal (as defined by today's definition) then why are you all tryin so hard to change the Constitution they wrote?

LOL, wow dude!

The Constitution made provisions for it to be CHANGED through the Amendment process, thus making it a LIBERAL, Living, and Breathing document. They were FORWARD thinking, they weren't longing for "the good ole days", they wanted CHANGE.

So you're goal is to change it to what? And at what expense do you want to change it?

Good question. I don't necessarily want to change it, but I do believe in the provisions that were made to Amend it, which actually means "changing" it. One of the most important things that protects Our Liberties, were the Bill of Rights, they were all Amendments to the Constitution, thus "changes" to the Constitution.

You do agree with those changes to the Constitution, right?

 

[Flopper]

On the anniversary of our country, it is time to remember the greatest liberals of their day........our founding fathers

All men are created equal.....what a liberal concept

If they were so liberal (as defined by today's definition) then why are you all tryin so hard to change the Constitution they wrote?

They're not – see post 178.

indeed, liberals seek to retain the principles enshrined in the Constitution as originally intended by the Framers: that of individual liberty, where the inalienable rights of citizens are paramount, safeguarded by a Constitutional Republic whose citizens are subject solely to the rule of law, not men – as men are incapable of ruling justly; as one's civil liberties are supreme to that of the states or other jurisdictions, and immune to capricious referenda.

It is liberals who fraught for voting rights for blacks, women's right, disability rights, gay rights, equal opportunity in the workplace, child labor laws, healthcare for the aged, and minimum wage while conservatives fought to maintain the status qua.

 

[norwegen]

On the anniversary of our country, it is time to remember the greatest liberals of their day........our founding fathers

All men are created equal.....what a liberal concept

If they were so liberal (as defined by today's definition) then why are you all tryin so hard to change the Constitution they wrote?

Oh, the Irony....

It's not Liberals who want to rip out the 17th amendment. That would be conservatives.

And those who think that only white, male landowners should have the right to vote? Well, they would like to gut the 15th and 19th amendments. And guess what? Those people aint Liberals. They're Conservatives.


And those who don't like income tax? Well, they would like to rip up the 16th amendment. And guess what? They're not Liberals.

Oh, the irony. The 16th and 17th amendments are Progressive Era amendments that altered the Constitution.

The 16th Amendment was the direct consequence of the decision in 1895 whereby the attempt of Congress the previous year to tax incomes uniformly throughout the states was held to be unconstitutional. The amendment supersedes Article I, section 2, clause 3, and section 9, clause 4.

The 17th was the outcome of increasing popular dissatisfaction with the constitutionally established method of selecting senators. It supersedes Article I, section 3, clauses 1 and 2.

Was it liberals, then, who wanted to rip up the Constitution they so established? Hmm?

 

[norwegen]

How is forcing someone to violate their religious beliefs not destroying the first amendment? That's exactly your goal and you want to blame us? Fuck off.

the first amendment gives YOU the right to practice your religion of choice.

No it doesn't. Not if it's liberal. "Living, breathing" clauses are subject to whim.

 

[regent]

"For the framers of the Constitution were the most liberal thinkers of all the ages and the charter they produced out of the liberal revolution of their time has never been and is not now surpassed in liberal thought."

General Douglas MacArthur

 

[Missouri_Mike]

How is forcing someone to violate their religious beliefs not destroying the first amendment? That's exactly your goal and you want to blame us? Fuck off.

the first amendment gives YOU the right to practice your religion of choice. it does NOT allow you to impose your brand of religion on OTHERS.

THAT is the point. but theocrats have problems with that.

When does your first amendment right end then? When you start a business based on Christian values do your rights end the moment you hire someone? So now the beliefs of people you have to cut a paycheck to over ride's your own beliefs?

Do you, if you so choose to open your own business have to personally give up all of your 1st amendment rights? Is that how it goes now? If you open a business you no longer have first amendment rights.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Really? Let's see who is more in favor of Liberty between the two of us, issue by issue. This invitation extends to all so-called "freedom loving conservatives".

I'll start.

Obiecare mandates you purchase health insurance from the government approved plans they want you to have not what you actually need.

That is freedom? And liberty?

I was never in favor when that plan was originally hatched by the Heritage Foundation, endorsed by not a few republicans, Hillary clinton, et al. In fact Obama ran against her stating that his plan was NOT mandatory. He lost me there because he acted too much like a republican conservative by signing on to that mandate.

Now I will add that the current Administration lost me when they continued and signed certain acts that affect our civil liberties just like the previous Administration did. Once again he's acting just like "them". NO THANKS. Where did you stand when the previous Administration passed the patriot act?

You do understand that what was supposedly hatched by the conservatives was quickly dropped as un-constitutional right? It's why it was dropped as a plan it went against everything we believed in.

Democrats however didn't have that moment of zen and pushed forward with a plan we all give up on 20 years ago.

It's kind of like someone saying let'e all shove our dicks in a light socket. The sane people decided that wasn't a good idea but later the democrats decide that's what they want everyone to do and blame others for coming up with the idea while you the citizen get your balls shocked off. A bad idea years ago doesn't turn into a good one just because the people on the other side came up with it. It was a shit plan from the beginning. You can't blame those that backed away from it for being the ones that brought it up just because you passed the stupid law.