History, what is it good for?

[I amso IR]

For the past three days I have been involved in a continuing contest of words with another member of USMB. The crux of that conversation has been centered around the Spanish Inquisition of Meso America and Central Mexico, the Aztec Civilization and the conduct of that Civilization which led to the persecution and fall of the Aztec way of life. My thoughts and belief are that the barbaric nature of the Aztec with regards to the treatment of the citizens and members of that nation were the major cause of the downfall. My opposite feels the Spanish invaders were the responsible cause of that downfall. He feels, if I read him correctly, the barbarians were in fact the Spanish. After much tit for tat he finally became specific and brought up Catholic religious persecution of Indian subjects for crimes against their own, Indian peoples. In many ways I view that in terms what goes around comes around. My opposite takes the view it is simply the Spanish being Spanish and Christian. Jake places much confidence in the seers of historical study, me, I tend to look for common sense. In my opinion there is far to much effort being placed on, "that cannot be correct", so let's revise history. If the 20th and 21st centuries are any indication, revisionism is not what it is cracked up to be. Hopefully my opposite will join us here on the history forum. Should you be interested in this topic, for background you may go to Election Forum, "You have awoken a sleeping giant" and myself "I amso IR", and "JakeStarkey" begin our tit for tat on the latter pages, in the 50's, or conduct a search for the topic. Hopefully, should this topic "fly", something can be learned by all or at a minimum more tit and tat.

 

[Moonglow]

Is Don Martin still unavailable for comment?

 

[I amso IR]

Is Don Martin still unavailable for comment?

Moonglow, it would appear so.

 

[Moonglow]

Is Don Martin still unavailable for comment?

Moonglow, it would appear so.

I still have his books from the 1970's...

 

[shadow355]

History....... Is good for an individual..... Or more like a group of individuals to perpetrate a fraud.

Shadow 355

 

[regent]

It seems one of the conservatives new history methods is the "I think history." Using this method one can change historical events, and historical methodology to I think this is what happened in the past, and it seems to help some conservatives cope. America's historians are relegated to state-historians working for a university or college therefore their history is tainted, so the "I think history" is the real truth. Another advantage to the I think method is that political labels can be changed around to fit the thinker's history.

 

[shadow355]

Sorry - I couldnt resist.

This clip is probably the best part of the movie





Shadow 355

 

[waltky]

Knowing the history of a situation...

... can help get to the bottom of an issue...

... to find some common place of understanding...

... to work out a resolution...

... or to at least understand why things are the way they are...

... and how we got there.

 

[Disir]

People have a tendency to sling around "revisionist history" entirely too often. People like to throw that out when there is information that jacks with their world view. History has to evolve when new information is presented. History doesn't always keep up with archaeology. Good historians will tell you when they are speculating.

 

[I amso IR]

What is a "good" historian? For that matter what is a "good" anything? Please explain.

 

[Disir]

...the kind that tells you when they are speculating.

Historians are presenting an argument in some way, shape or form. They need to show how they arrived at their conclusions. If they intentionally leave out a particular incident, person or text relevant to the argument to make their argument it will become obvious. They need to acknowledge what texts they are drawing from and whether they rely on a translation and, if so, then whose translation. If it is a period that I am interested in then I will seek out those sources.

 

[I amso IR]

Disir, kinda sounds a bit like myself, the "speculating" thing. I tend to lean towards "what is the motive', for say, why did these folks???? The behavior aspect involved in history. Thanks for answering, it has been a pleasure.

 

[Challenger]

Napoleon famously quoted, "History is a set of lies, agreed upon." and that's true to a great extent. Good historians sift through the lies, to try to uncover the truth and they go where the facts and evidence lead them. Bad historians, like any other bad academics, shoot an arrow, see where it lands and then draw the target around it to claim a bullseye.

The lessons of history, properly learned, can stop us repeating the same mistakes but unfortunately most politicians are not historians and feel that they know better in any event.

 

[I amso IR]

Napoleon famously quoted, "History is a set of lies, agreed upon." and that's true to a great extent. Good historians sift through the lies, to try to uncover the truth and they go where the facts and evidence lead them. Bad historians, like any other bad academics, shoot an arrow, see where it lands and then draw the target around it to claim a bullseye.

The lessons of history, properly learned, can stop us repeating the same mistakes but unfortunately most politicians are not historians and feel that they know better in any event.

Thank you Challenger. I cannot say I agree entirely but the statement has merit. My theme in my original post, in another forum, dealing with revisionist history blends well with you're arrow point of view. Were the Spanish the "bastards" of Central and South America, or was it the Aztec barbarism? Was the Christian, "love thy neighbor" mentality a factor or were the Spanish simply bullies? I am not arguing good vs bad, simply cause and reaction. And yes, I maintain that Aztec conduct, with regards to a personal belief had much to do with the treatment imposed upon the Aztec by Spanish Conquistadors. Right or wrong be damned, simply cause and effect is the issue.