How is the sun not responsible for warming the ocean?

[ding]

How heat moves​

The ocean is the largest solar energy collector on Earth. Not only does water cover more than 70 percent of our planet’s surface, it can also absorb large amounts of heat without a large increase in temperature. This tremendous ability to store and release heat over long periods of time gives the ocean a central role in stabilizing Earth’s climate system. The main source of ocean heat is sunlight. Additionally, clouds, water vapor, and greenhouse gases emit heat that they have absorbed, and some of that heat energy enters the ocean. Waves, tides, and currents constantly mix the ocean, moving heat from warmer to cooler latitudes and to deeper levels.

Heat absorbed by the ocean is moved from one place to another, but it doesn’t disappear. The heat energy eventually re-enters the rest of the Earth system by melting ice shelves, evaporating water, or directly reheating the atmosphere. Thus, heat energy in the ocean can warm the planet for decades after it was absorbed. If the ocean absorbs more heat than it releases over a given time span, its heat content increases. Knowing how much heat energy the ocean absorbs and releases is essential for understanding and modeling global climate.

Climate Change: Ocean Heat Content

More than 90 percent of the warming that has happened on Earth over the past 50 years has occurred in the ocean. Not all of that heating is detectable yet at the surface

www.climate.gov

The atmosphere by contrast is a poor conductor of heat. It doesn't store heat like the ocean does. At night the heat is releasing to outer space.

There is 1000 times more heat stored in the ocean than the atmosphere.

The ocean has been steadily warming. So what's responsible for this warming? The sun. Or the atmosphere.

 

[mamooth]

Well that was senseless, even by Ding standards.

Why? Because the sun warms everything on earth. Nobody ever said or implied otherwise, except maybe Ding in his title here.

And that has nothing to do with the fact that more CO2 in the atmosphere slows the escape of heat from the atmosphere, which in turn slows the escape of heat from the oceans, which in turn warms the oceans.

Anyways, Ding, did you have some point to make here? If you do, you should state it clearly and directly, and then back it up, instead of playing silly games.

 

[ding]

Does it make sense to you Procrustes Stretched that climate change makes a big deal out of the ocean warming?

Because it seems to me that something that is a poor conductor of heat and is 1/300th the mass of the ocean can affect it at all. Especially since the surface temperature (atmospheric reading) has only increased by 1.5C in 100 years.

I mean can't we just say that by inspection you'd have to be an idiot to believe that?

 

[ding]

Well that was senseless, even by Ding standards.

Why? Because the sun warms everything on earth. Nobody ever said or implied otherwise, except maybe Ding in his title here.

And that has nothing to do with the fact that more CO2 in the atmosphere slows the escape of heat from the atmosphere, which in turn slows the escape of heat from the oceans, which in turn warms the oceans.

Anyways, Ding, did you have some point to make here? If you do, you should state it clearly and directly, and then back it up, instead of playing silly games.

So why does a 1.5C increase in surface temperature make you shit your pants? Clearly that has absolutely nothing to do with the ocean warming.

 

[mamooth]

Because it seems to me that something that is a poor conductor of heat and is 1/300th the mass of the ocean can affect it at all.

Fallacy of incredulity, bzzzzzt, invalid. Try again.

We measure the atmosphere affecting the ocean, so your feelings on the matter are not relevant.

 

[mamooth]

So why does a 1.5C increase in surface temperature make you shit your pants?

I asked you to state you point clearly and directly. You responded by evading and attacking.

I take that as your admission of surrender, and I think everyone else takes it that way as well.

 

[ding]

Fallacy of incredulity, bzzzzzt, invalid. Try again.

We measure the atmosphere affecting the ocean, so your feelings on the matter are not relevant.

No. It's called a material balance.

Walk me through how a 1.5C increase in atmospheric temperature over a 150 year period and is 1/300th the mass of the ocean can produce this type of ocean warming.

 

[ding]

I asked you to state you point clearly and directly. You responded by evading and attacking.

I take that as your admission of surrender, and I think everyone else takes it that way as well.

My point is that the sun is overwhelmingly responsible for warming the ocean and it's funny that you stupid eggheads use the ocean warming as a sign that an incremental 120 ppm of atmospheric CO2 is responsible for it.

You're a fucking idiot.

 

[ding]

As long as heat is being transported from the Atlantic to the Arctic the planet will naturally warm.

When heat transport from the Atlantic to the Arctic gets disrupted the planet will naturally cool.

It really is that simple.

 

[mamooth]

No. It's called a material balance.

The atmosphere doesn't warm the oceans. No one familiar with the science has ever said or implied that. That's entirely your whackadoodle strawman.

The increased longwave backradiation coming down from the atmosphere -- which we measure directly -- is what is warming the oceans.

You don't understand the basics here. That's a statement of fact, not an opinion. That's why you should stop bothering the grownups.

 

[ding]

The atmosphere doesn't warm the oceans. No one familiar with the science has ever said or implied that. That's entirely your whackadoodle strawman.

The increased longwave backradiation coming down from the atmosphere -- which we measure directly -- is what is warming the oceans.

You don't understand the basics here. That's a statement of fact, not an opinion. That's why you should stop bothering the grownups.

Saying, "The increased longwave backradiation coming down from the atmosphere -- which we measure directly -- is what is warming the oceans" is saying the atmosphere is warming the ocean, dummy.

You're still caught in the trap.

I think it's you who doesn't understand the basics. The ocean warming has nothing to do with an incremental 120 ppm of atmospheric CO2 and for you think it does means you are a moron.

 

[BackAgain]

How heat moves​

The ocean is the largest solar energy collector on Earth. Not only does water cover more than 70 percent of our planet’s surface, it can also absorb large amounts of heat without a large increase in temperature. This tremendous ability to store and release heat over long periods of time gives the ocean a central role in stabilizing Earth’s climate system. The main source of ocean heat is sunlight. Additionally, clouds, water vapor, and greenhouse gases emit heat that they have absorbed, and some of that heat energy enters the ocean. Waves, tides, and currents constantly mix the ocean, moving heat from warmer to cooler latitudes and to deeper levels.

Heat absorbed by the ocean is moved from one place to another, but it doesn’t disappear. The heat energy eventually re-enters the rest of the Earth system by melting ice shelves, evaporating water, or directly reheating the atmosphere. Thus, heat energy in the ocean can warm the planet for decades after it was absorbed. If the ocean absorbs more heat than it releases over a given time span, its heat content increases. Knowing how much heat energy the ocean absorbs and releases is essential for understanding and modeling global climate.

Climate Change: Ocean Heat Content

More than 90 percent of the warming that has happened on Earth over the past 50 years has occurred in the ocean. Not all of that heating is detectable yet at the surface

www.climate.gov

The atmosphere by contrast is a poor conductor of heat. It doesn't store heat like the ocean does. At night the heat is releasing to outer space.

There is 1000 times more heat stored in the ocean than the atmosphere.
View attachment 984851

The ocean has been steadily warming. So what's responsible for this warming? The sun. Or the atmosphere.

View attachment 984849

Warm waters? We should, of course, ascribe blame to the primary cause:

The Sun

 

[ding]

It's actually looking like the climate community is fraudulent. Their brainless minions certainly are.

 

[ding]

Warm waters? We should, of course, ascribe blame to the primary cause:

The Sun

Seems so obvious, right? How can they miss such an obvious sign?

 

[mamooth]

Saying, "The increased longwave backradiation coming down from the atmosphere -- which we measure directly -- is what is warming the oceans" is saying the atmosphere is warming the ocean, dummy.

Not as you were using the term. You were speaking of relative mass and density, so you were clearly speaking of direct heat exchange between water and air and the ocean-air boundary.

You were totally wrong about that, so now you're trying to backpedal. Instead of admitting to your screw up, you're digging in deeper.

You're still caught in the trap.

I'm quite certain that being correct about the physics is not being caught in a trap.

I think it's you who doesn't understand the basics. The ocean warming has nothing to do with an incremental 120 ppm of atmospheric CO2 and for you think it does means you are a moron.

And so you retreat to "NUH-UH, BECAUSE I SAY SO!". Well done! <slow clap>

Thanks for playing, and we have some lovely parting gifts for you.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Does it make sense to you Procrustes Stretched that climate change makes a big deal out of the ocean warming?

Because it seems to me that something that is a poor conductor of heat and is 1/300th the mass of the ocean can affect it at all. Especially since the surface temperature (atmospheric reading) has only increased by 1.5C in 100 years.

I mean can't we just say that by inspection you'd have to be an idiot to believe that?

I'm not a scientist and I don't pretend much online.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It's actually looking like the climate community is fraudulent. Their brainless minions certainly are.

Back Again to conspiracies.

 

[ding]

I'm not a scientist and I don't pretend much online.

How much of a scientist do you need to be to realize the ocean is warming because of the sun and not the atmosphere?

 

[ding]

Back Again to conspiracies.

Only when it's self evident that the ocean warming has absolutely nothing to do with an incremental 120 ppm of atmospheric CO2.

 

[ding]

Not as you were using the term. You were speaking of relative mass and density, so you were clearly speaking of direct heat exchange between water and air and the ocean-air boundary.

You were totally wrong about that, so now you're trying to backpedal. Instead of admitting to your screw up, you're digging in deeper.


I'm quite certain that being correct about the physics is not being caught in a trap.


And so you retreat to "NUH-UH, BECAUSE I SAY SO!". Well done! <slow clap>

Thanks for playing, and we have some lovely parting gifts for you.

It's funny that you don't even realize the idiocy of believing the backradiation is responsible for the ocean warming up. It's the sun, dummy.