I just noticed something

Now, the man SGT. Mike Vierkant claims is lying is named Jason Fry. There is this from the Rolling Stone article,

Returning to Alaska after Christmas, Bowe said something that would stick with Fry months later, long after they arrived in Afghanistan. "Before we deployed, when we were on Rear D, him and I were talking about what it would be like," Fry recalls. Bowe looked at his friend and made no bones about his plans. "If this deployment is lame," Bowe said, "I'm just going to walk off into the mountains of Pakistan."

Read more: Bowe Bergdahl: America's Last Prisoner of War by Michael Hastings | Politics News | Rolling Stone

Now for starters, if he was not there and is a liar (Fry that is) how credible is that quote ? I also gathered from the article that this young man was trying to live some fantasy. It seems Bowe had visions of being a gun for hire and fan ked himself a gun for hire and mercenary. Honestly as I read it, I can totally see this guy thinkin he was going g to be all Bear Grills in the wilds of Pakistan and was basically incredibly stupid but a deserter nonetheless.
 
C_Clayton_Jones said:
TemplarKormac said:
But when the man you're fighting for is guilty of desertion, of aiding and abetting the enemy...
Click to expand...

Obviously you’ve failed to do enough ‘thinking,’ and went into partisan brain-dead mode instead, as this statement is factually wrong.

Allegations that Bergdahl is a ‘deserter’ have no bearing whatsoever on the merits or conditions of his release; indeed, he has not been found guilty of ‘desertion,’ or of ‘aiding and abetting the enemy,’ as he has been afforded neither an investigation nor due process of the law.

In essence you’re making the inane and failed ‘argument’ that Bergdahl should be presumed guilty of the allegations and summarily ‘punished’ by being left behind with his captors.

In fact, it was incumbent upon the president to secure Bergdahl’s release pursuant to an investigation and court martial if warranted.

And the same is true of the five released detainees, who have not been afforded due process, have not been afforded a trial, and have not been found guilty of any crimes.

Indeed, the release of the detainees comports with the law because these five individuals were being held absent a conviction of any crime, which goes to the overall un-Constitutional failure what was the process and policy of holding terrorist suspects in custody absent due process of the law. See, e.g., Boumediene v. Bush (2008).

If Bergdahl is guilty of any crimes, that will be determined in due course in accordance with the law, a determination that could not have been made if he had been left behind. And if Bergdahl is not guilty of committing any crimes, to have left him behind as a prisoner predicated solely on unproved allegations would have been the actual crime.
Click to expand...

Except he has been afforded an investigation, so that part of your statement is true. He has not been court martial ed, but that is final step in the process, and always comes after the investigation.
 
paperview said:
earlycuyler said:
paperview said:
How about you read the full story first, then make sure you come back with some non-rw-fruitloop link, if there is a such an allegation.
Click to expand...

You need only look up Sgt. Matt Vierkant. Hold up on your bleating sheep hackery and consider why this man, as well as others would say what they have. Swift boating is worthy of consideration, but why ? And why when directly asked did Chuck Hagle evade the question about weather this man did or did not run off ? Matt Vierkant is who im looking af here. If you can pleas point out his right wing nuttiness and for what reason he and his battle buddy's would say what they have about this man ?
Click to expand...
I get the feeling you still haven't read the Rolling Stone piece.

Am I right?
Click to expand...

Not anymore. Just got it done. Still looking for stuff on his accuser.
 
paperview said:
Care4all said:
earlycuyler said:
Something is fishy about all this. Really, it brings to mind some show on cable awhile back. Cant think of the name. Anyways, if this was a political stunt, could the presidents people be so stupid ? Someone mentioned on the radio that this mans fellow soldiers had to sign nondisclosure forms in regards to this man. Still, if you look at it, a sergeant in the Army is not a very big fish. Could he have important information ? And why wasnt he tortured and killed ? The Taliban is not known to hang on to prisoners, especially those that are American soldiers. This is all creepy weird.
Click to expand...
It is weird....very weird.....there has got to be much more to all of this....that we are not privileged to know yet.... and the nondisclosure agreements were done years ago, so who knows why....or if they were involved with this man's release....???

For others, I do think it is wrong to run around this site posting crud and acting as if members know all they need to know on this and have already convicted this dude....without knowing ALL of the facts.
Click to expand...
There was a seven page story about Bowe written in 2012 by Rolling Stone that gives a great deal of background and talks about the prisoner swap plan back then.

Even discusses that Obama consulted with some members of congress including McCain who (reluctantly) came around to the prisoner exchange (according to those at the meeting) plan.

Bowe Bergdahl: America's Last Prisoner of War by Michael Hastings | Politics News | Rolling Stone

 It's a pretty deep and thorough read and gives details on the early negotiations and Haqqani faction of the Taliban.

It doesn't sugarcoat the circumstances of Bowe leaving his post and even provides intelligence intercepted of a conversation between two Taliban fighters the day after Bowe had vanished.

Also bits on Bowe escaping his captors once and was reportedly kept shackled at night and "moved back and forth across the border to keep his position from being discovered" and because of the constant drone strikes.

I recommend checking the whole story.

This here might explain some of the *why* in the non-disclosure side:

During the first week of Bowe's capture, his parents believed he would be rescued. "We thought they'd get him quickly," Jani recalls. His name hadn't been released publicly, and the couple had only told their close family about his disappearance. At their daughter's Fourth of July party a few days later, they told their friends that Bowe was missing and that it was about to come out in the media.



On July 7th, after Bowe's name was officially released, the national press descended on Hailey, gathering at Zaney's, the coffee shop where Bowe had worked.


It wasn't long, though, before his parents began to grow frustrated by how the government was treating them in the midst of the ordeal. The Army, they felt, was subtly pressuring them not to speak to the press, and they were required to sign a nondisclosure agreement with the National Security Agency in order to view classified and top-secret material.



In addition, Bob believes the military began monitoring their phones in case the kidnappers called – standard procedure in a hostage situation, but one that also enabled the U.S. military to keep tabs on the family.


Things soon got worse. Ralph Peters, an action-thriller writer who serves as a "strategic analyst" for Fox News, took to the air to condemn Bowe as an "apparent deserter."



The Taliban, he declared, could save the United States on "legal bills" by executing him. Horrified by such comments, Bob and Jani told their military liaison that they didn't want the Army to mount an operation to rescue Bowe, fearful that he'd be killed – either by accident, or even on purpose, by an aggrieved soldier or the U.S. military itself.



There have certainly been soldiers who have joined the drumbeat of hatred against Bowe: A recent Facebook post from one soldier in his unit called for his execution. Worried that any further public attention might put Bowe at greater risk, his parents decided to remain silent, releasing a statement to their local newspaper asking the press to respect their privacy.


In what appears to be an unprecedented move, the Pentagon also scrambled to shut down any public discussion of Bowe. Members of Bowe's brigade were required to sign nondisclosure agreements as part of their paperwork to leave Afghanistan.



The agreement, according to Capt. Fancey, forbids them to discuss any "personnel recovery" efforts – an obvious reference to Bowe.


According to administration sources, both the Pentagon and the White House also pressured major news outlets like The New York Times and the AP to steer clear of mentioning Bowe's name to avoid putting him at further risk. (The White House was afraid hard-line elements could execute him to scuttle peace talks, officials involved in the press negotiations say.)



Faced with the wall of official silence, Bob and Jani began to worry that the Pentagon wasn't doing all that it could to get their son back. As Bowe's sister, Sky, wrote in a private e-mail: "I am afraid our government here in D.C. would like nothing better but to sweep PFC Bergdahl under the rug and wash their hands of him."


The first propaganda video of Bowe surfaced in July 2009. It was eventually followed by three others – the most recent from May of last year. Mullah Omar, the spiritual leader of the Taliban, released a statement in September 2010 claiming Bowe as a prisoner – an example, he said, of America's "humiliation and disgrace."


The videos show a steep decline in Bowe's appearance and mental health. In the first two videos he displays a measured calm, a kind of doped-out serenity that is missing from the most recent installments. Each is typical jihadist propaganda, using Bowe to recite lines criticizing American foreign policy."
Click to expand...
Two things, it appears, for Bowe's safety, and the safety of the troops, and the leverage he could provide in Peace talks in finally ending America's longest war. That's what I got out of it.
Click to expand...

Whenever McCain and Obama agree on something you know that it is completely fucked for whoever is on the short end of the stick.
 
Quantum Windbag said:
paperview said:
Care4all said:
It is weird....very weird.....there has got to be much more to all of this....that we are not privileged to know yet.... and the nondisclosure agreements were done years ago, so who knows why....or if they were involved with this man's release....???

For others, I do think it is wrong to run around this site posting crud and acting as if members know all they need to know on this and have already convicted this dude....without knowing ALL of the facts.
Click to expand...
There was a seven page story about Bowe written in 2012 by Rolling Stone that gives a great deal of background and talks about the prisoner swap plan back then.

Even discusses that Obama consulted with some members of congress including McCain who (reluctantly) came around to the prisoner exchange (according to those at the meeting) plan.

Bowe Bergdahl: America's Last Prisoner of War by Michael Hastings | Politics News | Rolling Stone

 It's a pretty deep and thorough read and gives details on the early negotiations and Haqqani faction of the Taliban.

It doesn't sugarcoat the circumstances of Bowe leaving his post and even provides intelligence intercepted of a conversation between two Taliban fighters the day after Bowe had vanished.

Also bits on Bowe escaping his captors once and was reportedly kept shackled at night and "moved back and forth across the border to keep his position from being discovered" and because of the constant drone strikes.

I recommend checking the whole story.

This here might explain some of the *why* in the non-disclosure side:

During the first week of Bowe's capture, his parents believed he would be rescued. "We thought they'd get him quickly," Jani recalls. His name hadn't been released publicly, and the couple had only told their close family about his disappearance. At their daughter's Fourth of July party a few days later, they told their friends that Bowe was missing and that it was about to come out in the media.



On July 7th, after Bowe's name was officially released, the national press descended on Hailey, gathering at Zaney's, the coffee shop where Bowe had worked.


It wasn't long, though, before his parents began to grow frustrated by how the government was treating them in the midst of the ordeal. The Army, they felt, was subtly pressuring them not to speak to the press, and they were required to sign a nondisclosure agreement with the National Security Agency in order to view classified and top-secret material.



In addition, Bob believes the military began monitoring their phones in case the kidnappers called – standard procedure in a hostage situation, but one that also enabled the U.S. military to keep tabs on the family.


Things soon got worse. Ralph Peters, an action-thriller writer who serves as a "strategic analyst" for Fox News, took to the air to condemn Bowe as an "apparent deserter."



The Taliban, he declared, could save the United States on "legal bills" by executing him. Horrified by such comments, Bob and Jani told their military liaison that they didn't want the Army to mount an operation to rescue Bowe, fearful that he'd be killed – either by accident, or even on purpose, by an aggrieved soldier or the U.S. military itself.



There have certainly been soldiers who have joined the drumbeat of hatred against Bowe: A recent Facebook post from one soldier in his unit called for his execution. Worried that any further public attention might put Bowe at greater risk, his parents decided to remain silent, releasing a statement to their local newspaper asking the press to respect their privacy.


In what appears to be an unprecedented move, the Pentagon also scrambled to shut down any public discussion of Bowe. Members of Bowe's brigade were required to sign nondisclosure agreements as part of their paperwork to leave Afghanistan.



The agreement, according to Capt. Fancey, forbids them to discuss any "personnel recovery" efforts – an obvious reference to Bowe.


According to administration sources, both the Pentagon and the White House also pressured major news outlets like The New York Times and the AP to steer clear of mentioning Bowe's name to avoid putting him at further risk. (The White House was afraid hard-line elements could execute him to scuttle peace talks, officials involved in the press negotiations say.)



Faced with the wall of official silence, Bob and Jani began to worry that the Pentagon wasn't doing all that it could to get their son back. As Bowe's sister, Sky, wrote in a private e-mail: "I am afraid our government here in D.C. would like nothing better but to sweep PFC Bergdahl under the rug and wash their hands of him."


The first propaganda video of Bowe surfaced in July 2009. It was eventually followed by three others – the most recent from May of last year. Mullah Omar, the spiritual leader of the Taliban, released a statement in September 2010 claiming Bowe as a prisoner – an example, he said, of America's "humiliation and disgrace."


The videos show a steep decline in Bowe's appearance and mental health. In the first two videos he displays a measured calm, a kind of doped-out serenity that is missing from the most recent installments. Each is typical jihadist propaganda, using Bowe to recite lines criticizing American foreign policy."
Click to expand...
Two things, it appears, for Bowe's safety, and the safety of the troops, and the leverage he could provide in Peace talks in finally ending America's longest war. That's what I got out of it.
Click to expand...

Whenever McCain and Obama agree on something you know that it is completely fucked for whoever is on the short end of the stick.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't McCain support returning an American POW?
 
TemplarKormac said:
All while Sgt. Andrew Tahmooressi sits in a Mexican jail being tortured and beaten.
Click to expand...

And so do many other Americans, for the same crime, going back decades.

Many other Americans are in prisons across the globe for various crimes, real or imagined, some of them soldiers.

You should explain why your selective outrage suddenly made a politically convenient appearance here.
 
earlycuyler said:
Now, the man SGT. Mike Vierkant claims is lying is named Jason Fry. There is this from the Rolling Stone article,

Returning to Alaska after Christmas, Bowe said something that would stick with Fry months later, long after they arrived in Afghanistan. "Before we deployed, when we were on Rear D, him and I were talking about what it would be like," Fry recalls. Bowe looked at his friend and made no bones about his plans. "If this deployment is lame," Bowe said, "I'm just going to walk off into the mountains of Pakistan."

Read more: Bowe Bergdahl: America's Last Prisoner of War by Michael Hastings | Politics News | Rolling Stone

Now for starters, if he was not there and is a liar (Fry that is) how credible is that quote ? I also gathered from the article that this young man was trying to live some fantasy. It seems Bowe had visions of being a gun for hire and fan ked himself a gun for hire and mercenary. Honestly as I read it, I can totally see this guy thinkin he was going g to be all Bear Grills in the wilds of Pakistan and was basically incredibly stupid but a deserter nonetheless.
Click to expand...
I get the feeling him seeing his fellow soldiers running over afghan children without a concern (and laughing about it), when part of our mission there was to win over the local people there -- had an affect on him, as well as the klutz platoon and ill-prepared missions they were sent on...just a thought.

Not excusing at all. It may have lead to a mental breakdown, perhaps...?
 
rightwinger said:
Quantum Windbag said:
paperview said:
There was a seven page story about Bowe written in 2012 by Rolling Stone that gives a great deal of background and talks about the prisoner swap plan back then.

Even discusses that Obama consulted with some members of congress including McCain who (reluctantly) came around to the prisoner exchange (according to those at the meeting) plan.

Bowe Bergdahl: America's Last Prisoner of War by Michael Hastings | Politics News | Rolling Stone

 It's a pretty deep and thorough read and gives details on the early negotiations and Haqqani faction of the Taliban.

It doesn't sugarcoat the circumstances of Bowe leaving his post and even provides intelligence intercepted of a conversation between two Taliban fighters the day after Bowe had vanished.

Also bits on Bowe escaping his captors once and was reportedly kept shackled at night and "moved back and forth across the border to keep his position from being discovered" and because of the constant drone strikes.

I recommend checking the whole story.

This here might explain some of the *why* in the non-disclosure side:

Two things, it appears, for Bowe's safety, and the safety of the troops, and the leverage he could provide in Peace talks in finally ending America's longest war. That's what I got out of it.
Click to expand...

Whenever McCain and Obama agree on something you know that it is completely fucked for whoever is on the short end of the stick.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't McCain support returning an American POW?
Click to expand...
Because Quantum doesn't support it and it's all about him.
 
paperview said:
earlycuyler said:
Now, the man SGT. Mike Vierkant claims is lying is named Jason Fry. There is this from the Rolling Stone article,

Returning to Alaska after Christmas, Bowe said something that would stick with Fry months later, long after they arrived in Afghanistan. "Before we deployed, when we were on Rear D, him and I were talking about what it would be like," Fry recalls. Bowe looked at his friend and made no bones about his plans. "If this deployment is lame," Bowe said, "I'm just going to walk off into the mountains of Pakistan."

Read more: Bowe Bergdahl: America's Last Prisoner of War by Michael Hastings | Politics News | Rolling Stone

Now for starters, if he was not there and is a liar (Fry that is) how credible is that quote ? I also gathered from the article that this young man was trying to live some fantasy. It seems Bowe had visions of being a gun for hire and fan ked himself a gun for hire and mercenary. Honestly as I read it, I can totally see this guy thinkin he was going g to be all Bear Grills in the wilds of Pakistan and was basically incredibly stupid but a deserter nonetheless.
Click to expand...
I get the feeling him seeing his fellow soldiers running over afghan children without a concern (and laughing about it), when part of our mission there was to win over the local people there -- had an affect on him, as well as the klutz platoon and ill-prepared missions they were sent on...just a thought.

Not excusing at all. It may have lead to a mental breakdown, perhaps...?
Click to expand...

All valid opinions, but I am sceptical of these claims of US Army soldiers running down Afghan children in trucks while swilling beer and laugh in about it. If this was happening it sould have been all over the news. So far im thinking this man had romantic notions and ran off. Not sure about the accusations of collaboration though. Honestly, his captors would likely have little use for him other then making video's. Im of the opinion this guy was no John Walker Lynd, but a goofball who got people killed.
 
rightwinger said:
Quantum Windbag said:
paperview said:
There was a seven page story about Bowe written in 2012 by Rolling Stone that gives a great deal of background and talks about the prisoner swap plan back then.

Even discusses that Obama consulted with some members of congress including McCain who (reluctantly) came around to the prisoner exchange (according to those at the meeting) plan.

Bowe Bergdahl: America's Last Prisoner of War by Michael Hastings | Politics News | Rolling Stone

 It's a pretty deep and thorough read and gives details on the early negotiations and Haqqani faction of the Taliban.

It doesn't sugarcoat the circumstances of Bowe leaving his post and even provides intelligence intercepted of a conversation between two Taliban fighters the day after Bowe had vanished.

Also bits on Bowe escaping his captors once and was reportedly kept shackled at night and "moved back and forth across the border to keep his position from being discovered" and because of the constant drone strikes.

I recommend checking the whole story.

This here might explain some of the *why* in the non-disclosure side:

Two things, it appears, for Bowe's safety, and the safety of the troops, and the leverage he could provide in Peace talks in finally ending America's longest war. That's what I got out of it.
Click to expand...

Whenever McCain and Obama agree on something you know that it is completely fucked for whoever is on the short end of the stick.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't McCain support returning an American POW?
Click to expand...

Why would he support giving up 5 high level Taliban leaders for a guy that walked off his post?
 
paperview said:
earlycuyler said:
Now, the man SGT. Mike Vierkant claims is lying is named Jason Fry. There is this from the Rolling Stone article,

Returning to Alaska after Christmas, Bowe said something that would stick with Fry months later, long after they arrived in Afghanistan. "Before we deployed, when we were on Rear D, him and I were talking about what it would be like," Fry recalls. Bowe looked at his friend and made no bones about his plans. "If this deployment is lame," Bowe said, "I'm just going to walk off into the mountains of Pakistan."

Read more: Bowe Bergdahl: America's Last Prisoner of War by Michael Hastings | Politics News | Rolling Stone

Now for starters, if he was not there and is a liar (Fry that is) how credible is that quote ? I also gathered from the article that this young man was trying to live some fantasy. It seems Bowe had visions of being a gun for hire and fan ked himself a gun for hire and mercenary. Honestly as I read it, I can totally see this guy thinkin he was going g to be all Bear Grills in the wilds of Pakistan and was basically incredibly stupid but a deserter nonetheless.
Click to expand...
I get the feeling him seeing his fellow soldiers running over afghan children without a concern (and laughing about it), when part of our mission there was to win over the local people there -- had an affect on him, as well as the klutz platoon and ill-prepared missions they were sent on...just a thought.

Not excusing at all. It may have lead to a mental breakdown, perhaps...?
Click to expand...

Do you have proof of Americans running over Afghanistan Children and laughing about it? No, you don't, because it didn't happen! It's more made up shit by anti-war idiots to aid our enemies.
my Daughter was a driver of armored fighting vehicles on two of her tours in Afghanistan and I take it personal when you spread lies about our troops anywhere in the World.

So, EAT SHIT AND DIE, MOTHERFUCKER!
 
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