Incivility from the Right to catch up with them

[Immanuel]

America is not some romanticized Norman Rockwell painting but a real place populated by real people. Thank God above America is not the same place it has been! We are a nation in a constant state of flux and that dynamism is the reason America thrives.

Surely you don't want an America that treats Blacks, women and native Americans as second class citizens. But, right here in America it happened. Surely you don't want an America that shoots its students on campus, but forty years ago come May, that was America.

And if you think we treated each other with respect whether that respect was deserved or not, I suggest you seek out the nearest fifty, sixty or seventy year old American and ask them to recall the 1960s, the 1950s or the 1940s.

Note: I said 30 years ago.

No, I don't want women or black people or native americans to be treated as second class citizens, but if you think America has gotten better over the last twenty years or so, then we just completely will never agree.

America is literally tearing itself apart. We hate each other, left and right and that saddens me.

I don't condone the actions of the accused (note: I have not seen evidence of the accusations that Rep. Lewis was called the N-Word or that Rep. Cleaver (not positive name is right) was spit upon and since they are Congressmen, I don't trust them) Teabaggers if that is what they are. For all we know, anyone that used those words or did those things could have been people trying to make Teabaggers look bad.

Regardless, the whole thing is inappropriate.

Immie

America is divided, true. But I vividly remember 1968. I vividly remember 1964. I vividly remember 1970. If America did not fall apart then, it won't fall apart now.

We had riots in the streets of Chicago, Newark, Watts, Harlem, Birmingham, Selma, and Kent, Ohio.

No one is rioting today.

We had real constitutional crises in the White House as Nixon abused his office. We had a war that was far more divisive than any health care debate.

I said to Dogbert yesterday in a discussion that he should listen to me because I was his elder. I guess I should listen to you. I was 3 in 1964 and I do not vividly remember those times.

We don't have riots today and I pray that we don't in the near future, but America is tearing itself apart. I don't trust the extremists on the right not to start shit even over this disaster of a health care bill. Things are getting worse every day.

We have a real constitutional crisis today or maybe one should say we have a real economic crisis today. We as a nation (and I am not only blaming the Dems for this) continue to believe that we can spend money we don't have. I fear that very soon, the limit will be reached and then what?

Rome fell... Persia fell... Egypt fell... Greece fell... the United Kingdom fell... what makes us different?

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Just look at the majority of republican comments on this forum, no wonder their politicians act like scum, look at their constituents. WAr and killing thousands is the good, patriotic thing to support. Criticizing a president starting war that has killed thousans of american soldiers and hundreds of thousands of cilivians, is the same as all the names and despicable things said about Obama and the dems for trying to pass legislation to help actual americans get healthcare, that is destroying the country. Nice priorities there, just shows how scummy republicans and their supporters can be. Being against the policy is one thing, making shit up is another, which the anti HC reform people love to do.

LOL, and all those anti-war protesting and Cindy Sheehan camping on a Presidents lawn and shitting in his bushes, was HELPING the country I suppose.

good grief, you all the biggest whiners.

This is ONE group.

You dont get to lump every liberal group who has ever held a protest for anything in as one group and then hold ONLY tea bagger up against that.

The really funny thing is TBs still come out worse.
The ONE group called the tea Party have had incident after incident of racial bias in their ranks, why is that?

Why not? You seem to think that you can lump every conservative group together and blame us for every problem that has affected the earth since the asteroid that killed all the dinosaurs hit.

Immie

 

[Truthmatters]

Where did I do that Immie?

You know your wrong.

 

[Immanuel]

I don't condone the actions of the accused (note: I have not seen evidence of the accusations that Rep. Lewis was called the N-Word or that Rep. Cleaver (not positive name is right) was spit upon and since they are Congressmen, I don't trust them) Teabaggers if that is what they are. For all we know, anyone that used those words or did those things could have been people trying to make Teabaggers look bad.

Regardless, the whole thing is inappropriate.

Immie

It's not nice to call them Teabaggers. tsk, tsk!

Really? I thought that was the name they gave themselves.

My apologies to whoever they are then.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Where did I do that Immie?

You know your wrong.

No, I do not. You do it regularly. As an example I will throw out your accusations against conservatives as to having fixed the Bush v. Gore elections and lets see... the electronic voting machines? IF, and that is a big IF, the producers of the voting machines rigged the elections, they sure as hell we not "all conservatives", yet you blamed "conservatives"

You are not by any stretch of the imagination fair in your analysis of left v. right.

Immie

 

[Nosmo King]

anarchists my ass it was liberals..

Since you live here too and have a real grip on the truth, could I ask you over to the house for coffee and discuss precisely what happened here in my hometown?

yes, liberals rioted in the streets and you chose to cover them by calling them anarchists.. ahhhhh but I remember the liberals at columbia university hurling invectives along with chairs at the minutement. do you? did you whine about that at the time?

No, they call themselves Anarchists. The Liberals did not cause any problems here in Pittsburgh. Again, the facts are standing in the way of an anecdote you seem to want to repeat as true.

Unless, and I'm only spitballin' here, you believe that anyone not in rigid lockstep with reactionary ideology is a "Liberal" to be co-mingled with Marxists, Fascists, Radicals and any other political group you have been told is 'bad'. I hope that you have more political savvy and sophistication than that.

 

[Immanuel]

Since you live here too and have a real grip on the truth, could I ask you over to the house for coffee and discuss precisely what happened here in my hometown?

yes, liberals rioted in the streets and you chose to cover them by calling them anarchists.. ahhhhh but I remember the liberals at columbia university hurling invectives along with chairs at the minutement. do you? did you whine about that at the time?

No, they call themselves Anarchists. The Liberals did not cause any problems here in Pittsburgh. Again, the facts are standing in the way of an anecdote you seem to want to repeat as true.

Unless, and I'm only spitballin' here, you believe that anyone not in rigid lockstep with reactionary ideology is a "Liberal" to be co-mingled with Marxists, Fascists, Radicals and any other political group you have been told is 'bad'. I hope that you have more political savvy and sophistication than that.

Hey to WT, even I am a liberal and a proud liberal at that!

Immie

 

[Contumacious]

Unless, and I'm only spitballin' here, you believe that anyone not in rigid lockstep with reactionary ideology is a "Liberal" to be co-mingled with Marxists, Fascists, Radicals and any other political group you have been told is 'bad'. I hope that you have more political savvy and sophistication than that.

I do not want to participate in Obama's Hellcare in any way shape or form. Are they going to leave me the fuck alone?

No you said?

In that case Liberal" must be co-mingled with Marxists, Fascists, Radicals and any other political group that I have been told is 'bad.

.

 

[Nosmo King]

Unless, and I'm only spitballin' here, you believe that anyone not in rigid lockstep with reactionary ideology is a "Liberal" to be co-mingled with Marxists, Fascists, Radicals and any other political group you have been told is 'bad'. I hope that you have more political savvy and sophistication than that.

I do not want to participate in Obama's Hellcare in any way shape or form. Are they going to leave me the fuck alone?

No you said?

In that case Liberal" must be co-mingled with Marxists, Fascists, Radicals and any other political group that I have been told is 'bad.

.

If you like your current health care plan, you're free to keep it. You are not required to participate in the federal plan.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Unless, and I'm only spitballin' here, you believe that anyone not in rigid lockstep with reactionary ideology is a "Liberal" to be co-mingled with Marxists, Fascists, Radicals and any other political group you have been told is 'bad'. I hope that you have more political savvy and sophistication than that.

I do not want to participate in Obama's Hellcare in any way shape or form. Are they going to leave me the fuck alone?

No you said?

In that case Liberal" must be co-mingled with Marxists, Fascists, Radicals and any other political group that I have been told is 'bad.

.

If you like your current health care plan, you're free to keep it. You are not required to participate in the federal plan.

So far...

 

[Immanuel]

Unless, and I'm only spitballin' here, you believe that anyone not in rigid lockstep with reactionary ideology is a "Liberal" to be co-mingled with Marxists, Fascists, Radicals and any other political group you have been told is 'bad'. I hope that you have more political savvy and sophistication than that.

I do not want to participate in Obama's Hellcare in any way shape or form. Are they going to leave me the fuck alone?

No you said?

In that case Liberal" must be co-mingled with Marxists, Fascists, Radicals and any other political group that I have been told is 'bad.

.

If you like your current health care plan, you're free to keep it. You are not required to participate in the federal plan.

I do not want to participate in Obama's Hellcare in any way shape or form. Are they going to leave me the fuck alone?

No you said?

In that case Liberal" must be co-mingled with Marxists, Fascists, Radicals and any other political group that I have been told is 'bad.

.

If you like your current health care plan, you're free to keep it. You are not required to participate in the federal plan.

So far...

And if I don't like my current plan and decide not to buy insurance?

How about if I can't afford insurance and I make too much to get enough of a subsidy to make it affordable for me?

For example, say I make $50,000 a year and that entitles me to a subsidy of $600/month to purchase health insurance. But since I have a family, the cost is going to be $1,200/month, but with my mortgage and other bills, I can't afford another $600/month out of pocket expenses to buy my own insurance and my employer has just informed us all that he is going to drop coverage and we will all need to get our own coverage. He only employs 27 people so he is not subject to the fine so now, I am screwed royally.

Immie

 

[Liability]

Unless, and I'm only spitballin' here, you believe that anyone not in rigid lockstep with reactionary ideology is a "Liberal" to be co-mingled with Marxists, Fascists, Radicals and any other political group you have been told is 'bad'. I hope that you have more political savvy and sophistication than that.

I do not want to participate in Obama's Hellcare in any way shape or form. Are they going to leave me the fuck alone?

No you said?

In that case Liberal" must be co-mingled with Marxists, Fascists, Radicals and any other political group that I have been told is 'bad.

.

If you like your current health care plan, you're free to keep it. You are not required to participate in the federal plan.

That is not actually true. Unless the Federal Government finds whatever coverage you have to fit within the eventual definition of a "qualified" plan (and THEY, not you, determine what is or isn't "qualified") then you will eventually get FINED if you keep your own preferred plan. And the fines will get jacked up over time, too, to make sure that you don't have the audacity to think you have any right to make a choice for yourself.

These are liberals we are talking about.

"Choice" is only a buzzword to justify the slaughter of the pre-born on demand as a matter of mere convenience. Beyond that, don't be so silly as to assume that you actually are permitted to make choices for yourself.

These are amongst the many many reasons to get this shit tossed out in Court.

 

[Nosmo King]

I do not want to participate in Obama's Hellcare in any way shape or form. Are they going to leave me the fuck alone?

No you said?

In that case Liberal" must be co-mingled with Marxists, Fascists, Radicals and any other political group that I have been told is 'bad.

.

If you like your current health care plan, you're free to keep it. You are not required to participate in the federal plan.

That is not actually true. Unless the Federal Government finds whatever coverage you have to fit within the eventual definition of a "qualified" plan (and THEY, not you, determine what is or isn't "qualified") then you will eventually get FINED if you keep your own preferred plan. And the fines will get jacked up over time, too, to make sure that you don't have the audacity to think you have any right to make a choice for yourself.

These are liberals we are talking about.

"Choice" is only a buzzword to justify the slaughter of the pre-born on demand as a matter of mere convenience. Beyond that, don't be so silly as to assume that you actually are permitted to make choices for yourself.

These are amongst the many many reasons to get this shit tossed out in Court.

Can you please provide a link to back up your assertion?

 

[Liability]

If you like your current health care plan, you're free to keep it. You are not required to participate in the federal plan.

That is not actually true. Unless the Federal Government finds whatever coverage you have to fit within the eventual definition of a "qualified" plan (and THEY, not you, determine what is or isn't "qualified") then you will eventually get FINED if you keep your own preferred plan. And the fines will get jacked up over time, too, to make sure that you don't have the audacity to think you have any right to make a choice for yourself.

These are liberals we are talking about.

"Choice" is only a buzzword to justify the slaughter of the pre-born on demand as a matter of mere convenience. Beyond that, don't be so silly as to assume that you actually are permitted to make choices for yourself.

These are amongst the many many reasons to get this shit tossed out in Court.

Can you please provide a link to back up your assertion?

Somewhat, sure.

Here: Keep Your Insurance? Not Everyone. | FactCheck.org

Now, I note that the link offers an analysis dating back to summer 2009. It is very difficult to find good links to the actual 2700 PAGE legislation (I found one in pdf format, but it's so massive, it constantly fails to fully load).

The basic information can be obtained via Google however. Here's one version that seems to load (slowly, but fully): http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3962pcs.txt.pdf

The KEY is to understand that, once this bill starts to kick in (it's currently scheduled to take effect in pertinent part only in 4 years) the law requires that the people obtain QUALIFIED plans. THEY determine what's "qualified." (See "Health Insurance Exchange") And they DO set up FINES for non-compliance.

Take a look at Section 302 and QHBP.

It will take a LONG time to wade through this mess.

Here, by the way, is a supposed SECTION-by-SECTION summary (prepared by the Democrat proponents of this mess) which (if one ignores the spin) is supposed to serve to help focus your attention on the specific provisions of interest to you. But good luck. http://stabenow.senate.gov/healthcare/Patient_protection_section.pdf

I don't see how the Section headings correspond to the actual provisions of the bill.....

 

[Toro]

Not really an answer to my question...

It is, actually. Anger is not a winning formula in American politics no matter what side of the political spectrum.

I didn't really mention "anger", but vocal opposition can and has been be used to a successful advantage...

What's going on now on the Right is not just vocal opposition. The Right is acting no different than the Left did under Bush.

 

[WillowTree]

fuckers.

 

[rightwinger]

fuckers.

Once again Willow chimes in with a well thought out, profound post

 

[Liability]

fuckers.

Once again Willow chimes in with a well thought out, profound post

And yours ^ is the height of profundity?

 

[Liability]

It is, actually. Anger is not a winning formula in American politics no matter what side of the political spectrum.

I didn't really mention "anger", but vocal opposition can and has been be used to a successful advantage...

What's going on now on the Right is not just vocal opposition. The Right is acting no different than the Left did under Bush.

If you confuse/conflate the vocal fringe idiot minority on the right WITH "the right," you might have a point.

But the majority of us on the right (in my experience) are not inclined to act like the dorks who called Rep. Frank a "faggot" or ANY black man (much less an historically respected one) a "******."

GENERAL opposition to almost everything being done or contemplated by the liberal Democratics is simply not the same thing as the verbal diarrhea spewed by a fringe element.

 

[Misty]

Oh nose, another day another outrage. all over WORDS.

I guess we have BEEN WARNED.

Yes Stephanie....WORDS

******, BABY KILLER, FAGGOT

Those are the words that are defining your party

So far the only one using those words on this thread are YOU. Over and over again. You seem to love using them.

And the only ones using them in the media are liberals.

That's defining right there.