Israel's Legal Right To Exist

[MJB12741]

The Palestinians, many of them, still have the keys to their homes that are now inhabited by Jews that stole them. They also have deeds to their homes and their land. Why should Palestinians that have been dispossessed by the Jews want to go to Mecca anyway, a large proportion of the land-owning Palestinians who were dispossessed were Christian, they wouldn't be let into Mecca.

Why do you despise Christians so much MJB, what have Christians ever done to you?

Oh get serious. Show us evidence of their "deeds" to the stolen land their homes were built on.

Isn't it strange , MJB, that those displaced in Europe by the Nazis and who owned their own homes are not clamoring for the current authorities to give them back their homes. In fact, many people left Iran when the religious nuts came into power, and they had property which of course remained there. Has anyone seen them whining about all the property they left behind?

Many injustices have been cast upon many peoples throughout history with land & homes lost.. Some accept it & move on to better themselves. Others wallow in it keeping themselves miserable for the rest of their lives.

 

[Hollie]

Where is the official LAND REGISTER of Palestinian deeds? Let's ask Monte. What fun.

It depends on the time period. For transactions executed prior to British rule the most complete set of records are in Istanbul. The British National Archives hold records for the Mandate period, but I am not sure that the British are allowing access for fear of upsetting Israel

Turkey transferred their records to the Palestinians a few years ago and are being digitized from what I understand, and many claims have been made to recover the stolen homes and land in Israel but, of course, Israel isn't going to give back the land it stole.

"Turkey Transfers Ottoman Land Records to Palestinian Authority
read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority

From the link:
"Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917."


But.... but.... but..... but... but how did The Zionists ™ "steal" land they paid for?


Oh my, "...absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon"

But.... but.... but.... but we're told there were no invaders, land grabbers from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.

 

[MJB12741]

Where is the official LAND REGISTER of Palestinian deeds? Let's ask Monte. What fun.

It depends on the time period. For transactions executed prior to British rule the most complete set of records are in Istanbul. The British National Archives hold records for the Mandate period, but I am not sure that the British are allowing access for fear of upsetting Israel

Turkey transferred their records to the Palestinians a few years ago and are being digitized from what I understand, and many claims have been made to recover the stolen homes and land in Israel but, of course, Israel isn't going to give back the land it stole.

"Turkey Transfers Ottoman Land Records to Palestinian Authority
read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority

From the link:
"Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917."


But.... but.... but..... but... but how did The Zionists ™ "steal" land they paid for?


Oh my, "...absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon"

But.... but.... but.... but we're told there were no invaders, land grabbers from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.

Well then, it seems we can all agree on the land deeds for the Jews. But still no evidence of Palestinian land deeds.

 

[fanger]

Many injustices have been cast upon many peoples throughout history with land & homes lost.. Some accept it & move on to better themselves. Others wallow in it keeping themselves miserable for the rest of their lives.

Israel?

 

[Phoenall]

Where is the official LAND REGISTER of Palestinian deeds? Let's ask Monte. What fun.

It depends on the time period. For transactions executed prior to British rule the most complete set of records are in Istanbul. The British National Archives hold records for the Mandate period, but I am not sure that the British are allowing access for fear of upsetting Israel

Turkey transferred their records to the Palestinians a few years ago and are being digitized from what I understand, and many claims have been made to recover the stolen homes and land in Israel but, of course, Israel isn't going to give back the land it stole.

"Turkey Transfers Ottoman Land Records to Palestinian Authority
read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority

And what about the fake entries after 1949 when the arab muslims passed laws disinheriting the Jews illegally as the land was acquired through violence and war.

 

[montelatici]

Where is the official LAND REGISTER of Palestinian deeds? Let's ask Monte. What fun.

It depends on the time period. For transactions executed prior to British rule the most complete set of records are in Istanbul. The British National Archives hold records for the Mandate period, but I am not sure that the British are allowing access for fear of upsetting Israel

Turkey transferred their records to the Palestinians a few years ago and are being digitized from what I understand, and many claims have been made to recover the stolen homes and land in Israel but, of course, Israel isn't going to give back the land it stole.

"Turkey Transfers Ottoman Land Records to Palestinian Authority
read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority

So then, bottom line is no official Palestinian land deeds can be presented. Is that correct?

Official deeds/land records have been presented. The Israelis won't recognize them.

 

[Hollie]

Where is the official LAND REGISTER of Palestinian deeds? Let's ask Monte. What fun.

It depends on the time period. For transactions executed prior to British rule the most complete set of records are in Istanbul. The British National Archives hold records for the Mandate period, but I am not sure that the British are allowing access for fear of upsetting Israel

Turkey transferred their records to the Palestinians a few years ago and are being digitized from what I understand, and many claims have been made to recover the stolen homes and land in Israel but, of course, Israel isn't going to give back the land it stole.

"Turkey Transfers Ottoman Land Records to Palestinian Authority
read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority

So then, bottom line is no official Palestinian land deeds can be presented. Is that correct?

Official deeds/land records have been presented. The Israelis won't recognize them.

The official deeds™ depict precisely the opposite of whine and moaning such that The Zionists™ Purchased land from the foreign Arab invaders / land grabbers. The article you posted actually refutes the false and bogus claims you have made.

I suppose we should say thanks for posting the official documents™ which thoroughly refute your claims... so..... thanks.

 

[montelatici]

Where is the official LAND REGISTER of Palestinian deeds? Let's ask Monte. What fun.

It depends on the time period. For transactions executed prior to British rule the most complete set of records are in Istanbul. The British National Archives hold records for the Mandate period, but I am not sure that the British are allowing access for fear of upsetting Israel

Turkey transferred their records to the Palestinians a few years ago and are being digitized from what I understand, and many claims have been made to recover the stolen homes and land in Israel but, of course, Israel isn't going to give back the land it stole.

"Turkey Transfers Ottoman Land Records to Palestinian Authority
read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority

From the link:
"Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917."


But.... but.... but..... but... but how did The Zionists ™ "steal" land they paid for?


Oh my, "...absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon"

But.... but.... but.... but we're told there were no invaders, land grabbers from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.

The Zionist invaders did not buy very much land from these absentee landlords in the grand scheme of things, as the official cadastral map shows.

 

[montelatici]

As for the exact calculation:

From the Survey of Palestine Vol. 2 Page 566


A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

 

[Hollie]

As for the exact calculation:

From the Survey of Palestine Vol. 2 Page 566


A Survey of Palestine Volume 2 | Berman Jewish Policy Archive @ Stanford University

View attachment 96697

However, as we know:

The Arabs in Palestine | Jewish Virtual Library

A Population Boom
As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.

This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.

The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 19221947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.

 

[Hollie]

Where is the official LAND REGISTER of Palestinian deeds? Let's ask Monte. What fun.

It depends on the time period. For transactions executed prior to British rule the most complete set of records are in Istanbul. The British National Archives hold records for the Mandate period, but I am not sure that the British are allowing access for fear of upsetting Israel

Turkey transferred their records to the Palestinians a few years ago and are being digitized from what I understand, and many claims have been made to recover the stolen homes and land in Israel but, of course, Israel isn't going to give back the land it stole.

"Turkey Transfers Ottoman Land Records to Palestinian Authority
read more: Turkey transfers Ottoman land records to Palestinian Authority

From the link:
"Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917."


But.... but.... but..... but... but how did The Zionists ™ "steal" land they paid for?


Oh my, "...absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon"

But.... but.... but.... but we're told there were no invaders, land grabbers from Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.

The Zionist invaders did not buy very much land from these absentee landlords in the grand scheme of things, as the official cadastral map shows.


View attachment 96696

Well, yes, that's another cut and paste map that with pretty colors, makes an impression on people with your limitations.

Anyway, thanks again for the article you posted earlier, refuting your persistent whining about stolen land™ (land purchased by The Zionists™), and describing how Arab-Moslem land grabbers / invaders from Syria and Lebanon controlled the territory.

 

[montelatici]

Just facts. What a hoot you are.

 

[Hollie]

Just facts. What a hoot you are.

Yes. Just the facts. Thanks for posting the article that officially refutes your argument.

You're a hoot.

 

[theliq]

So according to you as Native Americans WE demand all of North America Back because we first settled there........We according to you have the right to the Land and can kick out,murder etc., anyone there because......that is what the Jews did!!!!!!!!!!!!!Susha,....REALLY...steve

The First Nations peoples of the Americas ABSOLUTELY have the right to self-determination on their ancestral lands. Without doubt. But you can not unbreak the egg of the European invasion and colonization of the Americas.

No one has the "right" to ethnically cleanse a place. And certainly no one has a "right" to murder anyone, not even while justifying it by calling it "resistance".

The answer, in the Americas, and in Israel/Palestine is to give BOTH groups self-determination in parts of the territory. It is that simple.

Trouble is the Jews and Americans NEVER WILL....so that blows your theory out of the water

 

[theliq]

YAWN

Yet another Zionist inspired crock of Shit...........you are not fit to lick Montes feet...........FULL STOP...theliq Viva Palestine,Viva Israel

Zionism a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann.


Just so you will understand what zionism means to all but the hate sites

And both were CRIMINALS......no hate just fact.....I AM THE MAGNIFICENT

Full of hatred and lies as you make a claim that has no backing from any source other than the hate sites



Zionism a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann.


Just so you will understand what zionism means to all but the hate sites

Eloy and I are giving you the run around today and you are having a mental meltdown.....I suggest Hoss puts his DICK IN YOUR RIGHT EAR,HE MAY BE ABLE TO FCUK SOME SENSE INTO YOU BOY

What a self centred pompous ass you are. It is you having the mental breakdown as you cant stand the truth




Zionism a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. It was established as a political organization in 1897 under Theodor Herzl, and was later led by Chaim Weizmann.


Just so you will understand what zionism means to all but the hate sites

YAWN

 

[theliq]

Nonsense........my ancestors could be Jewish for all I know,what I do know is that our family unlike yours probably are not haters to anyone,as for myself I am not anti-semetic because I love Shepardic Jews and Palestinians,for they are the only Semetic Peoples on Earth......What I despise(and this is where you and others err) is the Terrorist Organization The Zionists.....a mixture of Ashkenazi and God knows who else....These SYNTHETIC JEWS mainly are part of this Organization that were CREATED back in the late 1880's by an Athiest Jew called Hertzel,moreover this Organization The Zionists collaborated with the Nazis,sending Jews to their DEATH,May they Rest In Peace.

When You start SPEWING about me and my Ancestors you want to Watch Your Mouth,because you are a two bit LIAR,like the rest of your Horde....It is people like You who have diminished other Jews,and You give Jews a Bad name........Your HYPOCRICY knows NO BOUNDS,you just think you can come on here and Smear anyone who disagrees with your rampant Zionist NON SENSE.

I realize you have no sembalence sic of Jewish history or other peoples history......yet you believe in that pin-brain of yours you can say what you like...you have pruefrock in your head.I THE MAGNIFICENT keep you honest.

Still waiting for your evidence to support your LIES that Zionists are terrorists. Not one piece of evidence as you know they all trace back to the hate sites you frequent.

How can Turks, pakistanis and afghani's be semitic ?

Only A Fool Would Lean Upon,Lean Upon His Own Misunderstandings....................Only theliq Brought The Truth,Brought The Truth,In Due Season

Plenty of sites to view ZIONIST TERRORISM...just type in Zionist Terrorism,if you have the desire because you can take your pick,buggered if I'm going to keep doing it for you,time and time again.


As for the Turkic(Not Turks from Turkey,you moron) Tribes and others from Central Asia who converted to be Jews(who invariably also become Zionists) Can NEVER BE SEMITIC,but they are Synthetic Jews.........Where in my prose did I mention Turks,Pakistanis and Afghans?????Methinks you are loopy

PS..unlike YOU...I DON'T DO HATE SITES

You make the claim then it is up to you to produce the evidence. The reason you dont is because all your evidence goes back to the hate sites,

YOU DO HATE SITES ALL THE TIME AS PROVEN BY YOUR WORDS LIFTED VERBATIM FROM THEM

O Pheo IF ONLY THAT WERE TRUE.....I TOLD YOU I DON'T DO HATE SITES,I JUST REACT TO FACTS AND THE TRUTH...I AM MY OWN MAN AS YOU KNOW,STEVE........Zionist TERRORISM IS BAD,BAD,BAD....BY THE WAY ANTI ZIONISM IS NOT ANTI SEMITISM...AS YOU KNOW...I WANT YOU TO SEE ME AS YOUR CONSCIENCE PHEO,BECAUSE AFTER ALL THESE YEARS THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BECOME....I DON'T HATE YOU...I CARE FOR YOU,AN ENEMY(IN YOUR MIND) CAN BECOME YOUR GREATEST FRIEND..........steve

I have traced your very own words back to hate sites and posted the results on here. The words were verbatim as in no changes to those posted on the hate sites, making you a LIAR and a 3 time loser. You are nothing to me other than a loud mouth uneducated lying POS racist nazi that does not have the guts to do what he tells others to do. The world would be a better place if you and your ilk were euthanised so we did not have to put up with your hatred and mental faillings

Where Bigmouth

 

[theliq]

montelatici, et al,

Yes, yes, only you know the truth... I've seen that syndrome before.

Had the clown read some of Lord Kichener writings before posting his usual bullshit he would not have made the usual fool of himself.
https://pure.royalholloway.ac.uk/portal/files/16903387/RichmondPhD.pdf

The U.S. saw it the same way, as stated in this congressional hearing:

(COMMENT)

Lord Kichener, who was killed some months died before the Balfour Declaration was even written and two years prior to the Mudros Armistice, was just one of many aristocrats that expressed opinions on the subject. Just about every Britain understood that the Suez Canal (a British Engineering investment and venture to expand trade and commerce) was of a strategic and vital interest to the Empire and central Europe; and had been so for more than half a century. So, when the Middle East was spoke of, in those days its principle features were that of the Suez Canal and The Dardanelles giving entrance to the Sea of Marmara.

Lord Kichener was a very senior Colonial Administrator. It was not uncommon for such Political-Military Officers to link all foreign strategic interests in terms of elements within the Empire. While at the time of Lord Kichener death the Middle East was just becoming an area of concern, the British Empire had control of Egypt; but the Ottoman Empire had control of the opposite bank of the Suez. And in the eyes of the British Empire, the Ottoman influence of the Suez was danger; both politically and commercially.

At the conclusion of Hostilities in the Great War, the British Empire's financial resources were spread across vast areas in the world. The British saw an opportunity to better finance the repair and maintenance to the infrastructure of the Palestine General Area Jewish Economic Investment.

Using Jewish economic Power and engineering organization turned out to be a double-edged sword. This brough a gradual increase in the Jewish Community's influence over the British Administration and an ever increasing friction between Jewish Financial Brokers and the British Military. (This is a discussion for another time.)

Lord Kichener's observations were valid pre-war observations --- but not policy by any stretch of the imagination.

Most Respectfully,
R

And Kitchener was hopeless,enjoyed the pleasures of Buggery when in Egypt,and was a homosexual....never married and was said never loved a woman.....There is a Theory sic that the Zionists had a part in his death....which I find absurd considering he died at sea after the ship he was on hit a mine.
He had Australian Breaker Morant Executed.After this incident(and Galipoli) in every War since Australia had their own Commander in Chief...Thanks for your informative and excellent post Rocco.....steve

 

[Eloy]

My belief is that Zionists think they have a right to make a state in Palestine because their god promised it to them millennia ago and because Jews had their kingdom there in Roman times.

I would challenge you to think about this in a different way. Yes, there are some extremely religious Jews who believe in some sort of G-d-given right to the land, but even that is arguable for reasons of complex Jewish theology that I won't bother to get into here. But for most Jewish people, and certainly for most Israelis, the primary reason for wanting a State is not based on religion or even on ancient history (although that certainly plays a role). It is based on the desire for a national self-determination, the same as the Kurdish people, the Catalan people, the Scots, the Tibetans, the Cypriots, the Serbs, the Croats, the French, the Spanish, the Americans. It is no different, except in one way. And that is the need for safety and security. The Jewish people, quite unique in the world, need a place to be safe. It is also based on the right of return to an ancestral homeland.

You say that most Jewish people want a state of their own is because they desire (i) "national self-determination". They also want (ii) "safety and security". You also claim that the Jewish people are (iii) "unique", And you assert a (iv) "right of return" to their ancestral homeland.
i) Jews are citizens of very many countries and so their nations have a claim on their aspiration for the self determination of these nations. Do you really want Polish Jews do not identify with the culture of Poland? Are Scottish Jews not really Scottish? Do you realize what message this gives to countries where Jews a citizens? Why would any Germans accept Jewish politicians, judges, teachers, and so forth, if their loyalty is to another nation? So be it.
ii) Are Jews in Israel safer and more secure than Jews in the USA? Seriously? If having a Jewish state in the middle of Arab Muslim countries while occupying Palestine and dealing with Arab native people with brutality is their idea of "safety and security then I would disagree.
iii) The Jews are no more unique than Catholics in Northern Ireland, Armenians in Turkey, or Roma in Spain. They have no claim on uniqueness than Basques in Spain and France or the Apache nation in the USA.
iv) The Holy Land is the mother of three religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. No group has a claim on having an exclusive right to live there.

I would disagree with you that Jews and Palestinians want the same thing.

How so? Palestinians want national self-determination in what they consider their ancient homeland. The Jewish people want national self-determination in what they consider their ancient homeland. The Palestinian people want to return to a land from which they were expelled. The Jewish people want to return to a land from which they were expelled. The Palestinian people want an end to oppression, equality and dignity. The Jewish people want the same.

So how are they different?

Palestinians do not claim a right to the land based on ancient history. Their homeland is where they were born and their claim is therefore stronger than Russian immigrants.

I have never demonized Jews ...

"Demonize" is a catch-all word to describe dialogue which is critical of the Jewish people or which denies to the Jewish people things which would normally not be denied to others. Saying "Jews stole land" is not a criticism of Israel and her government -- it is demonizing the Jewish people.

Please, learn the distinction between Zionists and Jews.

the English promised a home for Jews in some place other than England and since they had the mandate over Palestine they offered it to the Jews, primarily Europeans from central and Eastern Europe who had survived the Final Solution.

Well, in fact, the land was promised to the Jewish people in 1917 -- before there was a Final Solution. So, your claim is patently false. And the British did not offer the land to the Jews. The British offered to assist in facilitating the re-constitution of the Jewish National Home. The difference is the agency of the Jewish people.

You are correct; the English wanted the Jews out of Europe before the Final Solution. But antisemitism and the Jewish Question was current in the beginning of the last century and even before that. The Zionists had their eye on Palestine which was in the hands of the English so it was a win-win when the English got the Jews out of Europe and let them have a "home" (not state) in Palestine. After the Final Solution, the destruction of the European Jews made a "home" for survivors seem sensible and it is no coincidence that Israel became a state in 1948 not 1928. The impact of the Final Solution should be noted.

The problem was that Muslim Arabs with smaller numbers of other groups such as Christians, Jews, and Druze, were already there and had been so for centuries.

No, the problem is not the presence of Muslim Arabs. There is plenty of room for both. Just look how many millions of people live in Israel and "Palestine" and Gaza today! Compared to the barely half million in 1900. Look how many Arab Muslims live in Israel. The problem is not the presence of either ethnic group.

It becomes a problem when the Zionists wanted a Jewish state rather than sharing the land with the native inhabitants. The influx of European Jews after the Final Solution inspired with the Zionist vision of a Jewish state was a huge problem. The history of Palestine could have been different.

So, Zionists wanted a Jewish state (not a mere home among Arabs)

The Jewish people wanted a Jewish State, not a mere home among Arabs. The Arab people wanted a Palestinian State, not a mere home among Jews. Seems fair, don't you think?

No; the Palestinian Arabs did not want to be dispossessed and displaced.

and Arabs did not want to be displaced and dispossessed

It was never the intent to displace or dispossess the Arab people. (As is evident by the high percentage of Arab people living in Israel). Any displacement or dispossession which occurred is a DIRECT result of Arab aggression against Jews.

You are ill-informed on the creation of the Jewish state.

So, the point of going into all this with you is to point out that demonizing of the Jewish people moves us backwards rather than forward. It is not valid criticism of Israel to make broad sweeping statements about stolen land and apartheid and occupation and oppression and the lack of rights of the Jewish people.

What discussion should be about are concrete, practical plans to move forward towards a solution to the problem.

Forgive me but the occupation of Palestinian land by the Israelis is the root cause of the current problem today.

 

[P F Tinmore]

My argument is, and has always been, that the Palestinian Arab Christians and Muslims due to their extreme length of residence in the land (you can't unbreak that egg) ALSO have rights to the land.​

Cool, then they should return to their homes.

There are practical considerations, of course, but I have always agreed that the Arab Christian and Muslim Palestinians have the right to return to their homeland.

These people are now refugees in Gaza. Do you have a good explanation why they cannot go back to their homes?

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia

 

[theliq]

My belief is that Zionists think they have a right to make a state in Palestine because their god promised it to them millennia ago and because Jews had their kingdom there in Roman times.

I would challenge you to think about this in a different way. Yes, there are some extremely religious Jews who believe in some sort of G-d-given right to the land, but even that is arguable for reasons of complex Jewish theology that I won't bother to get into here. But for most Jewish people, and certainly for most Israelis, the primary reason for wanting a State is not based on religion or even on ancient history (although that certainly plays a role). It is based on the desire for a national self-determination, the same as the Kurdish people, the Catalan people, the Scots, the Tibetans, the Cypriots, the Serbs, the Croats, the French, the Spanish, the Americans. It is no different, except in one way. And that is the need for safety and security. The Jewish people, quite unique in the world, need a place to be safe. It is also based on the right of return to an ancestral homeland.

You say that most Jewish people want a state of their own is because they desire (i) "national self-determination". They also want (ii) "safety and security". You also claim that the Jewish people are (iii) "unique", And you assert a (iv) "right of return" to their ancestral homeland.
i) Jews are citizens of very many countries and so their nations have a claim on their aspiration for the self determination of these nations. Do you really want Polish Jews do not identify with the culture of Poland? Are Scottish Jews not really Scottish? Do you realize what message this gives to countries where Jews a citizens? Why would any Germans accept Jewish politicians, judges, teachers, and so forth, if their loyalty is to another nation? So be it.
ii) Are Jews in Israel safer and more secure than Jews in the USA? Seriously? If having a Jewish state in the middle of Arab Muslim countries while occupying Palestine and dealing with Arab native people with brutality is their idea of "safety and security then I would disagree.
iii) The Jews are no more unique than Catholics in Northern Ireland, Armenians in Turkey, or Roma in Spain. They have no claim on uniqueness than Basques in Spain and France or the Apache nation in the USA.
iv) The Holy Land is the mother of three religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. No group has a claim on having an exclusive right to live there.

I would disagree with you that Jews and Palestinians want the same thing.

How so? Palestinians want national self-determination in what they consider their ancient homeland. The Jewish people want national self-determination in what they consider their ancient homeland. The Palestinian people want to return to a land from which they were expelled. The Jewish people want to return to a land from which they were expelled. The Palestinian people want an end to oppression, equality and dignity. The Jewish people want the same.

So how are they different?

Palestinians do not claim a right to the land based on ancient history. Their homeland is where they were born and their claim is therefore stronger than Russian immigrants.

I have never demonized Jews ...

"Demonize" is a catch-all word to describe dialogue which is critical of the Jewish people or which denies to the Jewish people things which would normally not be denied to others. Saying "Jews stole land" is not a criticism of Israel and her government -- it is demonizing the Jewish people.

Please, learn the distinction between Zionists and Jews.

the English promised a home for Jews in some place other than England and since they had the mandate over Palestine they offered it to the Jews, primarily Europeans from central and Eastern Europe who had survived the Final Solution.

Well, in fact, the land was promised to the Jewish people in 1917 -- before there was a Final Solution. So, your claim is patently false. And the British did not offer the land to the Jews. The British offered to assist in facilitating the re-constitution of the Jewish National Home. The difference is the agency of the Jewish people.

You are correct; the English wanted the Jews out of Europe before the Final Solution. But antisemitism and the Jewish Question was current in the beginning of the last century and even before that. The Zionists had their eye on Palestine which was in the hands of the English so it was a win-win when the English got the Jews out of Europe and let them have a "home" (not state) in Palestine. After the Final Solution, the destruction of the European Jews made a "home" for survivors seem sensible and it is no coincidence that Israel became a state in 1948 not 1928. The impact of the Final Solution should be noted.

The problem was that Muslim Arabs with smaller numbers of other groups such as Christians, Jews, and Druze, were already there and had been so for centuries.

No, the problem is not the presence of Muslim Arabs. There is plenty of room for both. Just look how many millions of people live in Israel and "Palestine" and Gaza today! Compared to the barely half million in 1900. Look how many Arab Muslims live in Israel. The problem is not the presence of either ethnic group.

It becomes a problem when the Zionists wanted a Jewish state rather than sharing the land with the native inhabitants. The influx of European Jews after the Final Solution inspired with the Zionist vision of a Jewish state was a huge problem. The history of Palestine could have been different.

So, Zionists wanted a Jewish state (not a mere home among Arabs)

The Jewish people wanted a Jewish State, not a mere home among Arabs. The Arab people wanted a Palestinian State, not a mere home among Jews. Seems fair, don't you think?

No; the Palestinian Arabs did not want to be dispossessed and displaced.

and Arabs did not want to be displaced and dispossessed

It was never the intent to displace or dispossess the Arab people. (As is evident by the high percentage of Arab people living in Israel). Any displacement or dispossession which occurred is a DIRECT result of Arab aggression against Jews.

You are ill-informed on the creation of the Jewish state.

So, the point of going into all this with you is to point out that demonizing of the Jewish people moves us backwards rather than forward. It is not valid criticism of Israel to make broad sweeping statements about stolen land and apartheid and occupation and oppression and the lack of rights of the Jewish people.

What discussion should be about are concrete, practical plans to move forward towards a solution to the problem.

Forgive me but the occupation of Palestinian land by the Israelis is the root cause of the current problem today.

Outstanding.... Informative,Accurate Post, Eloy