Israel's Legal Right To Exist

[Phoenall]

I find your Logic inane,because I am pragmatic over this schism,that somehow makes me a Zionist!!!!!!for fuck sake Shusha what is wrong with you???

What is wrong with me is people like you who somehow think its okay to demonize Jews for vague reasons that they are filthy and evil while being unable to accurately define Zionism.

If you define Zionism, as Eloy did, as the desire for an exclusive Jewish State cleansed of Arab Palestinian Muslims and Christians -- then I am not a Zionist. So if you call me filthy, it is not because of what I believe but because I am a Jew.

So tell define Zionism for me so you can be sure I am a Zionist and not just a Jew.

I don't Demonize Jews just Zionists because of what they have done,their outright shamefulness of their denial of what they have done and over the past few years their ridiculous claim that Judaism is Zionism

LIAR

 

[Phoenall]

MJB12741, Phoenall, theliq, Indeependent, et al,

Well, this track in the discussion gets us nowhere. Quibbling over the term invasion gets us nowhere. Either the Arab Army came across and international border or not, it is still an invasion.

The term "invasion" is a description of a tactical operation. It is not the political term with consequence. The term you really need to tack down is:

Article 1 Definition of Aggression A/RES/29/3314
Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Charter of the United Nations, as set out in this Definition.

Explanatory note: In this Definition the term "State":

(a) Is used without prejudice to questions of recognition or to whether a State is a member of the United Nations;
(b) Includes the concept of a "group of States" where appropriate.​

Considering also that, since aggression is the most serious and dangerous form of the illegal use of force, being fraught, in the conditions created by the existence of all types of weapons of mass destruction, with the possible threat of a world conflict and all its catastrophic consequences, aggression should be defined at the present stage,​

Yes. Another important fact & reason for Israel's right to exist.

(COMMENT)

The definition or use of the term "Zionist or Zionism" is quite irrelevant. It is a nice adjective to through around, but it is no more meaningful than say the "Black Jews" or the "Rich Jews."

The term "zionism" is made even more ambiguous since it meaning changes over time; just like any other entity that holds to a persuasion. The Zionist of the 1920s when the San Remo Convention met, is different from the Zionist of 1948, and yet again, the Zionist of today. It is a rather useless term except in the most broadest sense.

The reasoning that the pro-Palestinians take the position as they did in 1948 was simple. Like our friend "P F Tinmore" the representative of the Arab Higher Committee insisted at the time --- that nationals of the Arab States could not be regarded as invaders in Palestine. It was only natural that the Palestinians had appealed to their neighbors for assistance in the face of mounting Jewish aggression.

• Nationals of the Arab States = any Arab from the any Arab League member State.
• "Jewish Aggression = any Jewish Immigration into the territory, any attempt to Construct a Jewish Nation Home, and any attempt to exercise self-determination and declare independence --- following the UN adopted Step Preparatory for Independence.
​

In their eyes --- there is no way the pro-Palestinians can argue otherwise and there is no way for them to see the outcome in their favor.

Most Respectfully,
R

Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State,...​

You always get this confused. The Arab armies entered Palestine but they did not attack Palestine. There was no aggression against Palestine. They entered Palestine to defend the Palestinians who were under attack.

Remember, about 300,000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from their homes before the Arab armies intervened.

BTW, I use the term "the Zionists" because that is what they called themselves. You can't use the term "the Jews" anymore than you can use the term "the Germans" when discussing "the Nazis."

Excellent,truthful and accurate post Tinnie...you know why they don't get it...........it is because they try to legitimize Zionist Terrorism by saying Jews...then they call us Anti-Semites..... the problem is for them no matter how they try to legitimize the Filth of Zionist TERRORISM....these Synthetic Jew LOL /Zionists do not and never had the Cultural beliefs of Real Jewish people.....They were created,repeat CREATED by an ATHIEST JEW(Synthetic JEW),Illegal's to Palestine,whose only intention was to bring Barbarity and Murder to the Palestinian people......to take the Palestinians Land.

That these Zionists all of whom were converted to Judiasm (Synthetics) never had any idea of Palestine,no roots or understanding of the Israelites other than what they were told/here say by there Zionist Controllers......The original MODERN TERRORISTS OF THE WORLD.

Their whole being is built on a LIE,they perpetuate this LIE today,they mindlessly believe in this LIE and think by protecting this LIE they can use their enormous HATRED to try to demean and control others exposing the LIE

Creatures like Pheo,not a Jew according to him......then he tries to say that Judaism and Zionism are the same thing.......I've heard this type of trash talk before,when the Nazis not only said that all Germans were Nazis but Arrogantly said they would rule the world......This type of Delusional Thinking is a Mental Disorder.......often created through GUILT etc,.

As an Organization the Zionists are openly Shameful,deliberately Aggressive and Delusional.............and a Danger to Mankind.steve

Calm down, Steve. You sound like a raging lunatic. Are you under psychiatric care? You certainly sound like you are, but are not being given the correct medication to help you. Now join these so-called by you "fake Jews" next Friday night and you might enjoy yourself.

You joining in Hoss ???? LOL steve...ps not Loony just Normal.......I can't help that you are a Zionut...I tell folk I don't like Synthetic "Fake Jews" I'm wrong because I love you man..steve,shit if I was over there I would have a few Jars with you,but don't try to convert me,...I hate plastic,LOL...see ya Hoss.

The only synthetic fake Jew on here is you, and you show it every time you post

 

[P F Tinmore]

Settler colonialism is not new.

Clearly. It would go back at least as far back as the invasion of Israel and Judea by the Romans and then by the Arabs. Indeed, it has happened all over the world and is happening right now in at least half a dozen places. The thing is, no one talks about it being evil or immoral or even illegal, unless you are talking about the Jewish people. No one really talks about it at all, unless you are talking about the Jewish people. Certainly no one talks about while reversing the indigenous and the colonizers, unless you are talking about the Jewish people.

Respectfully,
a filthy Jew

Unfortunately, settler colonialism was not illegal at the time of the creation of the US, Canada, Australia, etc.. It was not until the 19th and 20th century that international laws attempted to make a more civilized world. It has been illegal for a hundred years or so.

WRONG AGAIN you are manipulating to demonise the Jews when no such international law exists to this day. The arab muslims have been practising settler colonisation all over the world in places like the former Yugoslavia, Somalia, Yemen etc

when no such international law exists to this day.​

That is somewhat correct. I don't think settler colonialism, per se, is illegal. However, many of the processes involved in establishing settler colonialism is.

Cant be if the concept is still legal

What concept is legal?

 

[Hossfly]

Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State,...​

You always get this confused. The Arab armies entered Palestine but they did not attack Palestine. There was no aggression against Palestine. They entered Palestine to defend the Palestinians who were under attack.

Remember, about 300,000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from their homes before the Arab armies intervened.

BTW, I use the term "the Zionists" because that is what they called themselves. You can't use the term "the Jews" anymore than you can use the term "the Germans" when discussing "the Nazis."

Excellent,truthful and accurate post Tinnie...you know why they don't get it...........it is because they try to legitimize Zionist Terrorism by saying Jews...then they call us Anti-Semites..... the problem is for them no matter how they try to legitimize the Filth of Zionist TERRORISM....these Synthetic Jew LOL /Zionists do not and never had the Cultural beliefs of Real Jewish people.....They were created,repeat CREATED by an ATHIEST JEW(Synthetic JEW),Illegal's to Palestine,whose only intention was to bring Barbarity and Murder to the Palestinian people......to take the Palestinians Land.

That these Zionists all of whom were converted to Judiasm (Synthetics) never had any idea of Palestine,no roots or understanding of the Israelites other than what they were told/here say by there Zionist Controllers......The original MODERN TERRORISTS OF THE WORLD.

Their whole being is built on a LIE,they perpetuate this LIE today,they mindlessly believe in this LIE and think by protecting this LIE they can use their enormous HATRED to try to demean and control others exposing the LIE

Creatures like Pheo,not a Jew according to him......then he tries to say that Judaism and Zionism are the same thing.......I've heard this type of trash talk before,when the Nazis not only said that all Germans were Nazis but Arrogantly said they would rule the world......This type of Delusional Thinking is a Mental Disorder.......often created through GUILT etc,.

As an Organization the Zionists are openly Shameful,deliberately Aggressive and Delusional.............and a Danger to Mankind.steve

Calm down, Steve. You sound like a raging lunatic. Are you under psychiatric care? You certainly sound like you are, but are not being given the correct medication to help you. Now join these so-called by you "fake Jews" next Friday night and you might enjoy yourself.

You joining in Hoss ???? LOL steve...ps not Loony just Normal.......I can't help that you are a Zionut...I tell folk I don't like Synthetic "Fake Jews" I'm wrong because I love you man..steve,shit if I was over there I would have a few Jars with you,but don't try to convert me,...I hate plastic,LOL...see ya Hoss.

I don't think you realize, Steve, that with your "fake Jew" nonsense, you appear that you belong in the looney bin. However, if you don't mind appearing like a crackpot, then go for it.

On this issue,I cannot let you have the last word because you know I'm right......you need to think,to think about what I said,THINK BEING THE OPERATIVE WORD HERE steve

You're a crackpot, Steve. There is no getting around it.

 

[Hossfly]

Aggression is the use of armed force by a State against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of another State,...​

You always get this confused. The Arab armies entered Palestine but they did not attack Palestine. There was no aggression against Palestine. They entered Palestine to defend the Palestinians who were under attack.

Remember, about 300,000 Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from their homes before the Arab armies intervened.

BTW, I use the term "the Zionists" because that is what they called themselves. You can't use the term "the Jews" anymore than you can use the term "the Germans" when discussing "the Nazis."

Excellent,truthful and accurate post Tinnie...you know why they don't get it...........it is because they try to legitimize Zionist Terrorism by saying Jews...then they call us Anti-Semites..... the problem is for them no matter how they try to legitimize the Filth of Zionist TERRORISM....these Synthetic Jew LOL /Zionists do not and never had the Cultural beliefs of Real Jewish people.....They were created,repeat CREATED by an ATHIEST JEW(Synthetic JEW),Illegal's to Palestine,whose only intention was to bring Barbarity and Murder to the Palestinian people......to take the Palestinians Land.

That these Zionists all of whom were converted to Judiasm (Synthetics) never had any idea of Palestine,no roots or understanding of the Israelites other than what they were told/here say by there Zionist Controllers......The original MODERN TERRORISTS OF THE WORLD.

Their whole being is built on a LIE,they perpetuate this LIE today,they mindlessly believe in this LIE and think by protecting this LIE they can use their enormous HATRED to try to demean and control others exposing the LIE

Creatures like Pheo,not a Jew according to him......then he tries to say that Judaism and Zionism are the same thing.......I've heard this type of trash talk before,when the Nazis not only said that all Germans were Nazis but Arrogantly said they would rule the world......This type of Delusional Thinking is a Mental Disorder.......often created through GUILT etc,.

As an Organization the Zionists are openly Shameful,deliberately Aggressive and Delusional.............and a Danger to Mankind.steve

Calm down, Steve. You sound like a raging lunatic. Are you under psychiatric care? You certainly sound like you are, but are not being given the correct medication to help you. Now join these so-called by you "fake Jews" next Friday night and you might enjoy yourself.

You joining in Hoss ???? LOL steve...ps not Loony just Normal.......I can't help that you are a Zionut...I tell folk I don't like Synthetic "Fake Jews" I'm wrong because I love you man..steve,shit if I was over there I would have a few Jars with you,but don't try to convert me,...I hate plastic,LOL...see ya Hoss.

I don't think you realize, Steve, that with your "fake Jew" nonsense, you appear that you belong in the looney bin. However, if you don't mind appearing like a crackpot, then go for it.

LOL,trouble is with your funny and Rocco's agree is...that you and Rocco made a Love Child which became Zionism......now that is Funny and I Agree LOL steve

Well you have a love fest with all the anti-Semites, and Rocco, being a sharp man, was quick to catch on to you and your silliness.

 

[montelatici]

Bereft of facts and relying on propaganda, the clowns actually accuse others of silliness. They seem to have been influenced by the orange clown, also a blow hard liar. Rocco has never uttered one fact here. He has relied on pure Zionist propaganda and an innate hate of the native non-Jews of Palestine to blather nonsense.

 

[Phoenall]

Clearly. It would go back at least as far back as the invasion of Israel and Judea by the Romans and then by the Arabs. Indeed, it has happened all over the world and is happening right now in at least half a dozen places. The thing is, no one talks about it being evil or immoral or even illegal, unless you are talking about the Jewish people. No one really talks about it at all, unless you are talking about the Jewish people. Certainly no one talks about while reversing the indigenous and the colonizers, unless you are talking about the Jewish people.

Respectfully,
a filthy Jew

Unfortunately, settler colonialism was not illegal at the time of the creation of the US, Canada, Australia, etc.. It was not until the 19th and 20th century that international laws attempted to make a more civilized world. It has been illegal for a hundred years or so.

WRONG AGAIN you are manipulating to demonise the Jews when no such international law exists to this day. The arab muslims have been practising settler colonisation all over the world in places like the former Yugoslavia, Somalia, Yemen etc

when no such international law exists to this day.​

That is somewhat correct. I don't think settler colonialism, per se, is illegal. However, many of the processes involved in establishing settler colonialism is.

Cant be if the concept is still legal

What concept is legal?

The one you are trying to claim is against international law of course. If the processes involved are illegal then the concept is also illegal. This is like your nation of palistine that never existed until 1988, it is an illegal concept until the arab muslims declared independance in accordance with International laws

 

[Phoenall]

Bereft of facts and relying on propaganda, the clowns actually accuse others of silliness. They seem to have been influenced by the orange clown, also a blow hard liar. Rocco has never uttered one fact here. He has relied on pure Zionist propaganda and an innate hate of the native non-Jews of Palestine to blather nonsense.

Shut up IDIOT you dont have a clue

 

[Hossfly]

Bereft of facts and relying on propaganda, the clowns actually accuse others of silliness. They seem to have been influenced by the orange clown, also a blow hard liar. Rocco has never uttered one fact here. He has relied on pure Zionist propaganda and an innate hate of the native non-Jews of Palestine to blather nonsense.

Shut up IDIOT you dont have a clue

I think most readers realize that it is Monte who is the clown while he is busy calling others a clown. We also have to remember that when he is spewing about Israel propaganda, he forgets that Arab propaganda is some of the best in the world.

arab propaganda best in the world - Google Search

 

[Shusha]

I don't Demonize Jews just Zionists because of what they have done,their outright shamefulness of their denial of what they have done and over the past few years their ridiculous claim that Judaism is Zionism

No, you artificially create a fake divide between Jews and Zionists in order to put a veneer of social acceptablity on the toxic venom of your hate. See, its socially acceptable to demonize Zionists, but its not socially acceptable to demonize Jews.

The problem with that is no one who spouts off about filthy, evil Zionists is willing to put forth an objective definition of "Zionism". If you had an objective definition of what Zionism is you would be able to articulate it and explain both why you think I am a Zionist and why I am filthy for being one. The definition of Zionism used by most Jewish people is the universal right for all peoples, including the Jewish people, to have self-determination on their ancestral homeland. Do you think that is a good definition? Why or why not? If not, what would you propose as an alternative.

For example, Eloy claimed that Zionism is the belief in an exclusive State only for the Jewish people, with no Arab Muslim or Christian Palestinians permitted. Yay! Good news. By that definition I am not a filthy Zionist. In fact, by that definition, there would be virtually not a single Zionist to be found in the entire world. Phew.

I'll give you another example. I find the religious doctrine of jihad to be heinous. Be clear here -- the ideology is heinous, the people who believe it are not filthy, they are simply products of their environment. Specifically, the idea that the murder of innocents is not only acceptable but desirable; the idea that one can "purchase" a heavenly afterlife by substituting an innocent Jew for your own sins and the idea that G-d wants all of the Jews killed are heinous ideas. The people who believe in those ideas deserve to be condemned for holding those ideas.

Now define how Zionism is a heinous idea and offer proof that I hold those ideas. Else I have no choice but to believe you condemn me as "filthy" simply because I am Jewish.

 

[MJB12741]

Clearly. It would go back at least as far back as the invasion of Israel and Judea by the Romans and then by the Arabs. Indeed, it has happened all over the world and is happening right now in at least half a dozen places. The thing is, no one talks about it being evil or immoral or even illegal, unless you are talking about the Jewish people. No one really talks about it at all, unless you are talking about the Jewish people. Certainly no one talks about while reversing the indigenous and the colonizers, unless you are talking about the Jewish people.

Respectfully,
a filthy Jew

Unfortunately, settler colonialism was not illegal at the time of the creation of the US, Canada, Australia, etc.. It was not until the 19th and 20th century that international laws attempted to make a more civilized world. It has been illegal for a hundred years or so.

WRONG AGAIN you are manipulating to demonise the Jews when no such international law exists to this day. The arab muslims have been practising settler colonisation all over the world in places like the former Yugoslavia, Somalia, Yemen etc

when no such international law exists to this day.​

That is somewhat correct. I don't think settler colonialism, per se, is illegal. However, many of the processes involved in establishing settler colonialism is.

Cant be if the concept is still legal

What concept is legal?

A legal vote by the member nations of the UN at the time before the Muslim countries took it over makes Israel legal. What makes all the Muslim countries legal?

 

[montelatici]

Treaty of Tordesillas divided the New World between Spain and Portugal and was legalized by the Pope, the final authority for Catholic countries at the time. The native people were not in agreement with the treaty. Was it really legal?

 

[MJB12741]

Treaty of Tordesillas divided the New World between Spain and Portugal and was legalized by the Pope, the final authority for Catholic countries at the time. The native people were not in agreement with the treaty. Was it really legal?

Ask the Pope, not me.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Unfortunately, settler colonialism was not illegal at the time of the creation of the US, Canada, Australia, etc.. It was not until the 19th and 20th century that international laws attempted to make a more civilized world. It has been illegal for a hundred years or so.

WRONG AGAIN you are manipulating to demonise the Jews when no such international law exists to this day. The arab muslims have been practising settler colonisation all over the world in places like the former Yugoslavia, Somalia, Yemen etc

when no such international law exists to this day.​

That is somewhat correct. I don't think settler colonialism, per se, is illegal. However, many of the processes involved in establishing settler colonialism is.

Cant be if the concept is still legal

What concept is legal?

The one you are trying to claim is against international law of course. If the processes involved are illegal then the concept is also illegal. This is like your nation of palistine that never existed until 1988, it is an illegal concept until the arab muslims declared independance in accordance with International laws

Interesting. What was the legal difference between the 1948 declaration and the 1988 declaration?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Unfortunately, settler colonialism was not illegal at the time of the creation of the US, Canada, Australia, etc.. It was not until the 19th and 20th century that international laws attempted to make a more civilized world. It has been illegal for a hundred years or so.

WRONG AGAIN you are manipulating to demonise the Jews when no such international law exists to this day. The arab muslims have been practising settler colonisation all over the world in places like the former Yugoslavia, Somalia, Yemen etc

when no such international law exists to this day.​

That is somewhat correct. I don't think settler colonialism, per se, is illegal. However, many of the processes involved in establishing settler colonialism is.

Cant be if the concept is still legal

What concept is legal?

A legal vote by the member nations of the UN at the time before the Muslim countries took it over makes Israel legal. What makes all the Muslim countries legal?

Link?

 

[Shusha]

Interesting. What was the legal difference between the 1948 declaration and the 1988 declaration?

Effective government control over a territory?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Interesting. What was the legal difference between the 1948 declaration and the 1988 declaration?

Effective government control over a territory?

Try again.

 

[Hollie]

Interesting. What was the legal difference between the 1948 declaration and the 1988 declaration?

Effective government control over a territory?

Try again.

Try crossing the line of demarcation from Islamic terrorist controlled territories where Israel exercises effective control.

 

[Shusha]

Interesting. What was the legal difference between the 1948 declaration and the 1988 declaration?

Effective government control over a territory?

Try again.

Wait, are you arguing that the Arab Palestinians had a government and control over territory in 1948?

Or are you arguing that you don't need to have a government or a territory to declare independence?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Interesting. What was the legal difference between the 1948 declaration and the 1988 declaration?

Effective government control over a territory?

Try again.

Interesting. What was the legal difference between the 1948 declaration and the 1988 declaration?

Effective government control over a territory?

Try again.

Try crossing the line of demarcation from Islamic terrorist controlled territories where Israel exercises effective control.

Effective control describes occupation not sovereignty.