It's time to legalize drugs

[MikeK]

Why?

because it does little harm personally or to society on a whole and has much less risk of negative side effects than any pain killer, cough syrup or anti depressant...it is a herb

That's awfully subjective, how can you make a blanket statement like that when I personally know people who have dropped out of school because of their chronic use of marijuana? I know people whose days are consumed by smoking and they literally achieve nothing.I also know people who regularly smoked movie on to drugs like Cocaine and Mushrooms. I know people who have gotten in accidents while they were high. How can you claim that for on an individual level for every user and their immediate group of friends and family that it has little harm? Granted, this doesn't happen to all users, but to imply use for every user provides little harm if just false.

You aren't really interested in personal freedom, you just believe your crutch of choice, your personal preference, should be legalized. Why should responsible cocaine users not be free to use but irresponsible marijuana users should?

The first thing you need to understand is adolescents are sexually mature children who think they are all grown up but aren't. One reason adolescents should not use any sort of recreational chemical is their biochemistry, in particular their neurochemistry, will not fully develop until their early twenties. That would account for why people you know have dropped out of school and experience other problems.

Briefly stated, this is why there are strict laws against kids buying booze.

 

[MikeK]

How many robberies, rapes, and murders have involved drugs? The answer is virtually all of them. Why you would want to introduce more drugs to increase more violent crime is known only to you. No rational person would suggest it.

People were making large careers, sneaking around the ban on alcoholic, committing illegal activities, and killing people. However, we don't see Al Capones running around now.

You don't see large drug lords? You don't see drug gangs making hits on each other?
You must live in an alternative universe.

Yes, we do see drug lords and drug gangs and klllings, just like during alcohol Prohibition. Which is one major reason why we should do what needs to be done to be rid of them, which is to put an end to the wholly counterproductive War on Drugs.

If you disagree, tell us what good the drug war has done for us since its inception. If you don't know, then I'll tell you. The answer is, none. In fact it's done a great deal of harm by nudging the U.S. to the verge of becoming a police state and it has created a law enforcement/prison industrial complex which exceeds those of the most repressive nations in the world -- not to mention the cost! Meanwhile, street drugs are more available today than they were before the drug war began and they cost less.

 

[kaz]

People were making large careers, sneaking around the ban on alcoholic, committing illegal activities, and killing people. However, we don't see Al Capones running around now.

You don't see large drug lords? You don't see drug gangs making hits on each other?
You must live in an alternative universe.

Yes, we do see drug lords and drug gangs and klllings, just like during alcohol Prohibition. Which is one major reason why we should do what needs to be done to be rid of them, which is to put an end to the wholly counterproductive War on Drugs.

If you disagree, tell us what good the drug war has done for us since its inception. If you don't know, then I'll tell you. The answer is, none. In fact it's done a great deal of harm by nudging the U.S. to the verge of becoming a police state and it has created a law enforcement/prison industrial complex which exceeds those of the most repressive nations in the world -- not to mention the cost! Meanwhile, street drugs are more available today than they were before the drug war began and they cost less.

What's funny is that conservatives are the ones who understand economics. Hmmm....large profits for a product that's banned by government so no legal competition, maybe criminal "organizations" will chase that profit...

And it's always priceless when they go Rabbi's route of claiming what happened because of their own policy, in this case violence, as justification as to why they need to have that policy.

Social Conservative, a liberal mind just focusing on other issues.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

You guys really think open air drug markets in the US are a good idea?

I would not advocate legalizing such drugs as amphetamines, freebase cocaine (crack) or any other substance known to be dangerously addictive and harmful both biologically and psychologically.

Gee.....you're really gonna disappoint a lot o'....

combat-pilots!!!​

* Heroin has acquired a notorious reputation as an insidiously addictive and biologically harmful drug. But what is not generally known is both effects, which are widely observable, are the direct consequence of improper distribution via the illegal drug trade.

Bottom line is heroin, properly produced, properly distributed and properly used, would not produce any of the negative effects commonly associated with it -- provided its availability is accompanied by effective public education.

Heroin NEEDS to be reclassified, for use in.....

pain-management!!!

"Perhaps most disturbing to many pain researchers is the prospect of large amounts of federal money going toward the preparation of heroin for medicinal use. "If the money and heat generated on the heroin bill were spent on developing new drugs and educating doctors on how to use the drugs we al ready have, patients would be a lot better off," insists Dr. Michael Levy, director of palliative care at the Fox Chase Cancer Center in Philadelphia. This view is shared by Dame Cicely Saunders, the English founder of the hospice movement, which popularized the use of heroin in Britain to relieve dying patients. The controversy over heroin, she says, is focusing attention away from the main issue, which is "the need to improve the general standard of care." In particular, she says, there is a need to ensure that a misplaced concern about addiction does not prevent doctors from prescribing large enough doses of opiates to relieve patients with advanced cancer.

Despite these arguments, some members of the medical community believe that heroin deserves the four-year trial proposed in the bill even if it helps only a handful of people.

"We don't know if one patient in 10,000 will benefit," says Pharmacologist William Beaver, of Georgetown University, "but we ought to find out."

 

[MikeK]

Federal Form 4472, Question 11E "Are you an unlawful user of or addicted to...marijuana....."
If you answer yes, which you must, you are prohibited. Period.
There is no comparison. It is a falsehood.

Hey stupid.......you can't become addicted to cannabis.

ABS....i think you can Mentally.......but not physically no.....

You're right.

There is no biologically addictive properties in any part of the cannabis plant. And in spite of its exhaustive efforts the federal government has failed to identify an addictive component in THC.

But behavioral science has long ago identified the addictive personality. Those who manifest this degenerate psychological condition are inclined to acquire obsessive dependencies on anything from Pepsi Cola to other people. So it follows that an addictive personality who tries marijuana and likes it will quickly become "dependent" on it (among other things).

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I agree we need to try something different. But turning this country into a nation of zombies isnt really what I would call a good change.
I proposed something different, and something with a proven record of eliminating drug addiction.

You mean like in Afganistan and Indonesia? Both countries have incredibly harsh penalties for drug trafficking, and yet, both of those countries have MASSIVE drug trades - 3/4 of all heroin in the world comes from Afganistan.

And both countries are rife with corruption and lawlessness. I heard the U.S. actually has a few soldiers there to try to restore order. You hear about that?

The Chinese faced this problem when the Communists took over. Opium had addled the entire population, from the Empress on down. The Communists made a proposal like mine. Within a few years they eradicated the opium problem.
Proven solution to a proven problem. Someone refute that."

Leave it up to the Communists, to clean-up the after-effects o' the....

Western World's opium-trade.

"The trading life started off rather spartan, but through the years many upscale amenities led to a pampered gentry lifestyle. Profits were huge and many fortunes were made. Warren Delano went home with one, lost it and then went back to China to get more. Russell Company partners included John Cleve Green, banker and railroad investor who made large donations to and was a trustee for Princeton; A. Abiel Low a shipbuilder, merchant and railroad owner who backed Columbia University; merchants Augustine Heard and Joseph Coolidge. Coolidge's son organized the United Fruit company, and his grandson, Archibald C. Coolidge, was a co-founder of the Council on Foreign Relations. Partner John M. Forbes "dominated the management" of the Chicago, Burlington and Quincey, with Charles Perkins as President. Other partners and captains included Joseph Taylor Gilman, William Henry King, John Alsop Griswold, Captain Lovett and Captain J. Prescott. Captain Prescott called on his friend and agent in Hong Kong F.T. Bush, Esq. frequently. Russell & Co. and Perkins & Co. families, relations and friends are well represented in the Order of Skull and Bones."

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

[...]

The Chinese faced this problem when the Communists took over. Opium had addled the entire population, from the Empress on down. The Communists made a proposal like mine. Within a few years they eradicated the opium problem.

Proven solution to a proven problem. Someone refute that.

The primary reason for the epidemic of opium addiction in China was public ignorance. The Chinese people simply were unaware of the addictive nature of raw opium and by the time they did become aware of it millions of them were already hooked.

....Not to mention the Western World's ignorance.

Who KNEW about the High Roller$ (of those days), ca$hin'-in on the opium-trade....or, would have CARED??!!!

After all.....they were only.....

Chinese!!

 

[Harry Dresden]

Whassa matter, coward...can't argue the point so you have to neg rep? Meow...

yep thats Rabbi.....you have to watch out he is kind of delicate.....his feelings bruise easily....basically he is a Fucking Pussy....

Translation: He beats me like a red headed step child in every exchange.

and yet you still wont answer the fucking question......will you Rabbi Dean?

 

[Harry Dresden]

yep thats Rabbi.....you have to watch out he is kind of delicate.....his feelings bruise easily....basically he is a Fucking Pussy....

Translation: He beats me like a red headed step child in every exchange.

I am sure you have wet dreams about beating Harry, but that doesn't mean that's what really happens.

notice how he thinks he is winning, but avoids some questions asked of him,because the questions might reveal he knows JACK Shit about what he talks about..........

 

[Harry Dresden]

The Rabbi wants government to solve his problems for him and tell people what they can do with their bodies. They may make the wrong choice. It has to be stopped. He trusts politicians for that, deciding what people can do with their bodies. And clearly government tracking financial transactions and invading our privacy to do it is well worth the benefit of government controlling people. And hey, funding mafias and destabalizing government is a small price to pay for government to control what we put in our bodies. Yes, he trusts government, the guy is whacked.

wait a minute!!...........thats the same shit he throws at the Libs here.......that means the Rabbi is a Liberal!!!!!

 

[MikeK]

Decriminalization in Britain was a failure.

Who told you that?

(Excerpt)

Since the reclassification of cannabis in January 2004 the British media published a great number of articles on an expected increase of marihuana use among the young population. The Home Secretary Charles Clarke have requested drug experts to reevaluate this decision and declared himself being ready to change it, if necessary. Nevertheless, it is already becoming quite clear that one of the great threats put forward by decriminalization opponents turned to be vain, as the predicted increase just did not happen. It could even seem that cannabis is losing its glamour and attractiveness of a "forbidden fruit" for the young Brits because the figures for the last year show the lowest yearly increase in number of its users over the last decade.
Post-decriminalization in Great Britain – no explosion in cannabis use as predicted

(Close)

Legalization in the Netherlands was a failure.

First, marijuana was never legalized in The Netherlands, mainly because of pressure from the U.S. government and apprehension about smuggling and "drug tourism." But marijuana possession and use in that nation has been decriminalized since 1976 and the effect has been entirely positive. In fact, as in England, use by minors has substantially decreased.

You should also know The Netherlands has adopted a tolerant policy toward heroin addiction in that addicts are supplied with sterile implements (syringes and needles) and are provided with medically supervised daily doses as part of a voluntary gradual withdrawal and treatment program which has produced significantly positive results, mainly in the dramatic reduction in crime formerly committed by addicts to support their habits. The program has in fact been so successful that Switzerland has recently commenced a similar program.

Legalization in Mexico has been a failure.

(Excerpt)

In Mexico, a Call to Legalize Drugs
Escalating violence is forcing Mexican President Caldéron to open discussion on a new strategy to fight drugs: legalization By Jens Erik Gould


A record number of homicides is forcing Mexican President Felipe Calderón to discuss a new strategy in his country's war on drugs: legalization. Calderón said for the first time earlier in August that he was willing to rethink measures to fight trafficking after the death toll in the war he started against the cartels in December 2006 reached 28,000. In the latest atrocity, 72 bodies were found on Aug. 25 at a remote ranch near the U.S. border.

Calderón's remarks have prompted a sharp debate inside policymaking circles in both Mexico and the U.S. Former Mexico President Vicente Fox and other Mexican politicians say that legalization would cut funding to gangs and boost government revenue, while Director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy R. Gil Kerlikowske argues that legalization wouldn't solve anything.

In Mexico, a Call to Legalize Drugs - BusinessWeek

(Close)


Legalization in Mexico hasn't taken place as yet, again because of pressure from the U.S. So where do you get your information? Or do you just make it up as you go along? It's quite obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

Maybe you need to learn something?

Maybe you should stop posting bogus information and learn a few things, yourself.

 

[MikeK]

... no one can deny the obvious: drugs cause violent anti social behavior.

I can. It depends entirely on the person. If you insist on generalizing, recreational drug use is more likely to product peaceful, social behavior. Indeed, that's the most common reason people resort to drugs in the first place.

The Daily NEws disagrees with you.
Drugs and guns are killing New York - two thirds of murder victims are black, drugs involved - New York Daily News

A (New York) Daily News editorial is hardly a source of scholarly opinion. The fact is drug laws are affecting New York in essentially the same way as did alcohol Prohibition. But instead of Irish and Italian bootlegging mobsters effecting all the violence the drug trade in the New York area is Black dominated -- and rival dealers do kill each other off quite regularly.

It's too bad this Daily News writer isn't aware that when marijuana was decriminalized in New York City throughout the 60s and 70s drug-related crime had declined appreciably. In fact there was absolutely no negative effect associated with that absence of pot persecution.

 

[Douger]

Start with Pot, Ectasy, and shrooms. See how that goes as a test to look into legalizing others.

Portugal already performed the experiment. Your masters made sure you murkins didn't hear about it.
Decriminalizing Drugs in Portugal a Success, Says Report - TIME

 

[The Rabbi]

Utter bullshit.

Can you support that rude and empty retort with some intelligent substance? Such as how the U.S. has benefited from the War On Drugs -- especially the prohibition of marijuana.

The Rabbi wants government to solve his problems for him and tell people what they can do with their bodies. They may make the wrong choice. It has to be stopped. He trusts politicians for that, deciding what people can do with their bodies. And clearly government tracking financial transactions and invading our privacy to do it is well worth the benefit of government controlling people. And hey, funding mafias and destabalizing government is a small price to pay for government to control what we put in our bodies. Yes, he trusts government, the guy is whacked.

Yeah, imagine that. Struggling to keep society safe and functioning. Who could possibly be for something like that? Better to have a bunch of drug-induced zombies wandering around, mumbling about Ron Paul...

 

[The Rabbi]

yep thats Rabbi.....you have to watch out he is kind of delicate.....his feelings bruise easily....basically he is a Fucking Pussy....

Translation: He beats me like a red headed step child in every exchange.

and yet you still wont answer the fucking question......will you Rabbi Dean?

Translation: I have no arguments to make so I make this personal.

 

[Douger]

Your avatar declares you're a complete idiot.

 

[editec]

Penn and Teller - Bullshit - War On Drugs [VUTRA.TV]#

 

[dblack]

Penn and Teller - Bullshit - War On Drugs [VUTRA.TV]#

Excellent episode

"When you criminalize something thats not a real crime, you still create real criminals"

also:

"As much as we hate to admit it, it seems pretty clear that our country - which we all love so dearly - loves a fucking war. Even if it's a war fought in our own streets against our own people."

 

[Harry Dresden]

Start with Pot, Ectasy, and shrooms. See how that goes as a test to look into legalizing others.

Portugal already performed the experiment. Your masters made sure you murkins didn't hear about it.
Decriminalizing Drugs in Portugal a Success, Says Report - TIME

if we never heard about it how come some here have already posted links on it?....go back to picking up shit asshole your rent is coming up......

 

[Harry Dresden]

Translation: He beats me like a red headed step child in every exchange.

and yet you still wont answer the fucking question......will you Rabbi Dean?

Translation: I have no arguments to make so I make this personal.

like you did not make this personal you stupid Fuck?.....and you know dam well what i am talking about....