July 4th, 1776 and the Fear of Freedom

[Peach]

Franklin on slavery:

“Slavery is such an atrocious debasement of human nature, that its very extirpation, if not performed with solicitous care, may sometimes open a source of serious evils. The unhappy man who has been treated as a brute animal, too frequently sinks beneath the common standard of the human species. The galling chains, that bind his body, do also fetter his intellectual faculties, and impair the social affections of his heart… To instruct, to advise, to qualify those, who have been restored to freedom, for the exercise and enjoyment of civil liberty… and to procure for their children an education calculated for their future situation in life; these are the great outlines of the annexed plan, which we have adopted.

[For the Pennsylvania Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery, 1789]”
― Benjamin Franklin, Writings

 

[Jarlaxle]

It is not my fault it went WAY over your head. Keep on hating...it is the American way...right?
Teapers...no class, using Independence Day to spew their hate. I guess that's because they are pushing for another revolution.

I don't know about the American way, but it's certainly the liberal way. It's not my head this conversation is going over. You sure hate those tea partiers, don't you? I'm not even a tea partier, I'm a libertarian, and you hate me too.

Don't you hate how tea partiers don't realize that people are different, they aren't all the same? They're all like that, aren't they?

Actually, Teapers LOVE diversity. If it weren't for diversity, who else could they blame all of the ills of this great nation on?

As for Libertarians, I will never understand why you are so sympathetic to the Teapers. They have molested your belief system and use you to spew their hate.

Dude...you are dumb as rat shit. Does it HURT to be so stupid?

 

[Nutz]

I don't know about the American way, but it's certainly the liberal way. It's not my head this conversation is going over. You sure hate those tea partiers, don't you? I'm not even a tea partier, I'm a libertarian, and you hate me too.

Don't you hate how tea partiers don't realize that people are different, they aren't all the same? They're all like that, aren't they?

Actually, Teapers LOVE diversity. If it weren't for diversity, who else could they blame all of the ills of this great nation on?

As for Libertarians, I will never understand why you are so sympathetic to the Teapers. They have molested your belief system and use you to spew their hate.

Dude...you are dumb as rat shit. Does it HURT to be so stupid?

Must be a Teaper. They are a sensitive bunch. But when they spew their hate nonsense...they like to say they are only using words. Hypocrites, the whole lot of them.

 

[peach174]

I claim there is a significant racist faction in the TP. I was offering to have a honest discussion about it...but the mods wouldn't allow it. It is shameful when Teapers have to be 'protected' from honest discussion by the powers that be.

Your thread was moved to Race Relations/Racism it was not closed down nor is the one in the clean debate Zone.

There is a small fraction of racists in the Tea Party, not a significant one, just like any other movements in this nation.

Yes, it was moved to prevent honedt discussion...to allow Teapers to spew nonsense and not have to abide by CDZ rules. Pretty pathetic if you ask me...they knew the teapers would flame and fume, so they moved it so they could instead of having an honest discussion.

I guess Teapers can't stand on their own two feet...they need a helping hand to defend their hate.

Your Tea Party thread is still in the clean debate zone.

 

[Jarlaxle]

DO YOU have any idea what you are babbling? Or is it the text equivalent of birds shitting on a parked car?

 

[Nutz]

Your thread was moved to Race Relations/Racism it was not closed down nor is the one in the clean debate Zone.

There is a small fraction of racists in the Tea Party, not a significant one, just like any other movements in this nation.

Yes, it was moved to prevent honedt discussion...to allow Teapers to spew nonsense and not have to abide by CDZ rules. Pretty pathetic if you ask me...they knew the teapers would flame and fume, so they moved it so they could instead of having an honest discussion.

I guess Teapers can't stand on their own two feet...they need a helping hand to defend their hate.

Your Tea Party thread is still in the clean debate zone.

Shennanigans....how could it still be there with all of the vile hatred spewed by the teapers. If there, they must have done some VERY selective editing.

 

[Nutz]

DO YOU have any idea what you are babbling? Or is it the text equivalent of birds shitting on a parked car?

This is considered honest debate by a Teaper. ^^^^^

 

[guno]

If you find yourself wondering why the Land of the Free has more prison inmates in 2014 that any other country on the planet, and that a staggering disproportion of today's inmates are the descendants of slaves....

If you have to wonder why this is, you apparently cannot see the obvious:
Colored people commit a disporoportionate number of crimes in the US.


If you believe this traces back to slavery, you are far too silly to be taken seriously.

And if you think that it's because they're black then you need to hang yourself.

why should a good piece of rope be ruined?

 

[Jarlaxle]

DO YOU have any idea what you are babbling? Or is it the text equivalent of birds shitting on a parked car?

This is considered honest debate by a Teaper. ^^^^^

Dude...we BOTH know you don't do "debate". You flame. You troll. You lie. You slander. You tap-dance. But you just do not debate.

 

[peach174]

Yes, it was moved to prevent honedt discussion...to allow Teapers to spew nonsense and not have to abide by CDZ rules. Pretty pathetic if you ask me...they knew the teapers would flame and fume, so they moved it so they could instead of having an honest discussion.

I guess Teapers can't stand on their own two feet...they need a helping hand to defend their hate.

Your Tea Party thread is still in the clean debate zone.

Shennanigans....how could it still be there with all of the vile hatred spewed by the teapers. If there, they must have done some VERY selective editing.

What the hell are you talking about?
Your thread is still there.
It's that nobody has posted in it since June 22nd.
Post in it and people will start it again.

 

[Theowl32]

DO YOU have any idea what you are babbling? Or is it the text equivalent of birds shitting on a parked car?

This is considered honest debate by a Teaper. ^^^^^

Dude...we BOTH know you don't do "debate". You flame. You troll. You lie. You slander. You tap-dance. But you just do not debate.

Put him on ignore, so you don't need to see him use the word teaper again.

The funny thing is how many likes he gets from the fucktards on the left.

 

[Nutz]

DO YOU have any idea what you are babbling? Or is it the text equivalent of birds shitting on a parked car?

This is considered honest debate by a Teaper. ^^^^^

Dude...we BOTH know you don't do "debate". You flame. You troll. You lie. You slander. You tap-dance. But you just do not debate.

I reply in-kind. In other words, I dumb myself down to the level of the person in which I am speaking.

BTW - TEAPER is not a derogatory term. It is simply a shortened version of Tea Partier. You should thank me for lightning your load.

 

[Nutz]

This is considered honest debate by a Teaper. ^^^^^

Dude...we BOTH know you don't do "debate". You flame. You troll. You lie. You slander. You tap-dance. But you just do not debate.

Put him on ignore, so you don't need to see him use the word teaper again.

The funny thing is how many likes he gets from the fucktards on the left.

Teaper is offensive (not really), but this idiot spews some of the most vitriolic nonsense on this forum...

Owlie...remember, don't eat a taco in front of a Teaper. They will turn on you in a second and start calling you a wetback!

 

[georgephillip]

How about you name a country that is superior to the US...period. I guess your hate blinds you to the fact that diversity and a nation that prides itself of being a 'melting pot' is one of the main reasons the United States of America is so great.

American "greatness" relied on slavery and genocide to fulfill its manifest destiny. This thread simply points out the claim that July 4th, 1776 wasn't necessarily a progressive step forward for humanity, but was also a conservative counterrevolution by American colonialists to protect their system of slavery; think of it as the 18th century version of materialism, racism, and militarism.

I was talking to 1776 and his hate politic nonsense.

As for you...you are spewing nonsense as well...stretching for an argument to minimize the birth of a great nation.

There is no stretching required to notice how a legal ruling in London of 1772 suggesting slavery would no longer obtain in England caused many American colonists from South Carolina to New York to despair for the fortunes. Fortunes that depend upon chattel slavery should never be forgotten regardless of their level of national greatness.

 

[Nutz]

Your Tea Party thread is still in the clean debate zone.

Shennanigans....how could it still be there with all of the vile hatred spewed by the teapers. If there, they must have done some VERY selective editing.

What the hell are you talking about?
Your thread is still there.
It's that nobody has posted in it since June 22nd.
Post in it and people will start it again.

Different thread. As you can see, in that thread, teapers can't defend their views because it is in the CDZ and they aren't allowed to spew their nonsense.

Most teapers are incapable of honest debate...all they do is spew racist nonsense, flame, and troll. That is what anti-government wackos do...they are incapable of a discussion, they just demand that everyone accept they are right - if not, they revert to ad hominem attacks and name calling.

 

[georgephillip]

If you find yourself wondering why the Land of the Free has more prison inmates in 2014 that any other country on the planet, and that a staggering disproportion of today's inmates are the descendants of slaves, Dr Gerald Horne might help you understand why:

"GERALD HORNE: We should understand that July 4th, 1776, in many ways, represents a counterrevolution.

"That is to say that what helped to prompt July 4th, 1776, was the perception amongst European settlers on the North American mainland that London was moving rapidly towards abolition.

"This perception was prompted by Somerset’s case, a case decided in London in June 1772 which seemed to suggest that abolition, which not only was going to be ratified in London itself, was going to cross the Atlantic and basically sweep through the mainland, thereby jeopardizing numerous fortunes, not only based upon slavery, but the slave trade.

"That’s the short answer."

"Counter-Revolution of 1776": Was U.S. Independence War a Conservative Revolt in Favor of Slavery? | Democracy Now!

The long answer extends to Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and beyond.
America was built on genocide and slavery, and until we shake that PTSD (post tramatic slave syndrome) we're destined to live in Fear.

The reason a larger percentage of Blacks are in jail is because a larger percentage of Blacks are caught committing crimes.

It didn't used to be that way.. Only since the Leftists in the Country convinced so many that living off of the Government teat was better than working and staying together as families was.

So... the ones that are living off the government teat are the same ones that are filling the prisons?

They do that so the government has to spend more money on them.

 

[Pheonixops]

What accounts for the spike in prison population since 1970, too many "Socialists" in government or "Free" Trade Capitalism?

That spike looks like it happened along with the "War on Drugs".

Yep...a black person gets caught with a gram of weed...they go to jail. A white person gets caught...they don't even get a ticket. Crack...how many years? Cocaine...no prison time.

White murderers do less time than blacks arrested for non-violent drug offenses.

Add formal or informal "stop and frisk" policies in predominantly "minority communities" and you have a formula for higher arrest and incarceration rates.

 

[Peach]

American "greatness" relied on slavery and genocide to fulfill its manifest destiny. This thread simply points out the claim that July 4th, 1776 wasn't necessarily a progressive step forward for humanity, but was also a conservative counterrevolution by American colonialists to protect their system of slavery; think of it as the 18th century version of materialism, racism, and militarism.

I was talking to 1776 and his hate politic nonsense.

As for you...you are spewing nonsense as well...stretching for an argument to minimize the birth of a great nation.

There is no stretching required to notice how a legal ruling in London of 1772 suggesting slavery would no longer obtain in England caused many American colonists from South Carolina to New York to despair for the fortunes. Fortunes that depend upon chattel slavery should never be forgotten regardless of their level of national greatness.

But as I have posted, the feelings of the Founders were not uniform, even most of the slave owners despised slavery, but saw no other way...."for now". You can at least tip your hat to John Adams, and John Quincy Adams, against slavery and VOCAL about it, same with Franklin. Adams letters to Jefferson rarely omitted a rebuke because Jefferson owned slaves.

 

[Nutz]

That spike looks like it happened along with the "War on Drugs".

Yep...a black person gets caught with a gram of weed...they go to jail. A white person gets caught...they don't even get a ticket. Crack...how many years? Cocaine...no prison time.

White murderers do less time than blacks arrested for non-violent drug offenses.

Add formal or informal "stop and frisk" policies in predominantly "minority communities" and you have a formula for higher arrest and incarceration rates.

I wonder how many are actually innocent as well. I seem to remember recently where a babysitter was caught trying to accuse a black man for a home invasion...it was her. If it weren't for an honest child - they would have lynched that negro.

 

[georgephillip]

I was talking to 1776 and his hate politic nonsense.

As for you...you are spewing nonsense as well...stretching for an argument to minimize the birth of a great nation.

There is no stretching required to notice how a legal ruling in London of 1772 suggesting slavery would no longer obtain in England caused many American colonists from South Carolina to New York to despair for the fortunes. Fortunes that depend upon chattel slavery should never be forgotten regardless of their level of national greatness.

But as I have posted, the feelings of the Founders were not uniform, even most of the slave owners despised slavery, but saw no other way...."for now". You can at least tip your hat to John Adams, and John Quincy Adams, against slavery and VOCAL about it, same with Franklin. Adams letters to Jefferson rarely omitted a rebuke because Jefferson owned slaves.

I'm sure the Founders saw no way out that wouldn't crash the economy of their day.
It is worth noting other countries outlawed slavery without resulting to Civil War.
King Cotton cast a long shadow between Valley Forge and Cold Harbor:

"In the 1830s, hundreds of millions of acres of conquered land were surveyed and put up for sale by the United States. This vast privatization of the public domain touched off one of the greatest economic booms in the history of the world up to that time.

"Investment capital from Britain, the Continent and the Northern states poured into the land market. 'Under this stimulating process, prices rose like smoke,' the journalist Joseph Baldwin wrote in his memoir, 'The Flush Times of Alabama and Mississippi.'

"Without slavery, however, the survey maps of the General Land Office would have remained a sort of science-fiction plan for a society that could never happen.

"Between 1820 and 1860 more than a million enslaved people were transported from the upper to the lower South, the vast majority by the venture-capitalist slave traders the slaves called 'soul drivers.'

"The first wave cleared the region for cultivation. 'Forests were literally dragged out by the roots,' the former slave John Parker remembered in 'His Promised Land.'

"Those who followed planted the fields in cotton, which they then protected, picked, packed and shipped — from “sunup to sundown” every day for the rest of their lives..."

"When the cotton crop came in short and sales failed to meet advanced payments, planters found themselves indebted to merchants and bankers.

"Slaves were sold to make up the difference.

"The mobility and salability of slaves meant they functioned as the primary form of collateral in the credit-and-cotton economy of the 19th century.

"It is not simply that the labor of enslaved people underwrote 19th-century capitalism.

"Enslaved people were the capital: four million people worth at least $3 billion in 1860, which was more than all the capital invested in railroads and factories in the United States combined.

"Seen in this light, the conventional distinction between slavery and capitalism fades into meaninglessness."

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/30/king-cottons-long-shadow/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0