Kennedy: Barred from Communion

[Anguille]

try again.

"try again"
del automatic come back #47

or maybe you're miffed no one cares when you go to church?

i'm not miffed at anything.

you're continuing attempts at being a contrarian are pretty funny, though.
well, mildly amusing. sort of.

You really thought I thought you were miffed?

You're too easy.

 

[Anguille]

Your catching up should prevent additional foolishness.

Don't count on it.

 

[California Girl]

um...if I were in church every Sunday with Kennedy I'd notice him sitting out communion...and so would everyone else.

you don't even know that kennedy goes to church, or the same church every sunday, or the same time at the same church every sunday. he brought this on himself solely and completely.

no one knew, and even fewer cared, that the bishop told him not to take communion privately. the runt of the kennedy litter chose to go public with it now for his own reasons. end of story.

or maybe he's had an epiphany after three fucking years.



“I am disappointed that the Congressman would make public my pastoral and confidential request of nearly three years ago that sought to provide solely for his spiritual well-being,” said Bishop Thomas Tobin in a strongly worded statement. “I have no desire to continue the discussion of Congressman Kennedy’s spiritual life in public.”

Patrick Kennedy, R.I. bishop trade jabs over communion ban - BostonHerald.com

spin away.

He released 3 year old information that he thought would be of political value to him. Typical of the self serving snivelling little entitlement junkie that he is. Serving the public, my ass. The only thing this particular Kennedy serves is himself.

The Kennedy family are the epitome of 'the good die young'. I suspect this Kennedy will have a long and self serving life.

Anyone who thinks this is an unusual occurance has absolutely no idea of the workings of the Catholic Church. I know quite a few Catholics who have, at one time, been refused communion. It is between that individual and the Church. The only people who see it differently have an agenda of their own - such as to whine about pedophilia allegations, yadda yadda yadda.

While I find their accusations offensive as a Catholic, I couldn't really give a rats ass about the stupid uninformed opinions of fools.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So, you didn't need to duck when the actual point flew over your head. This has absolutely no bearing on the discussion. The Church was not requestiong or instructing Kennedy on anything. He was instructed not to take communion because of his support for abortion. That is absolutely NOT instructing or requesting him to do anything - not surprized you don't see the difference.

Except, it is instructing him practically to change his views on Abortion. We both know that exactly what the Church is sending as a message by doing this.

They're instructing him on how to be a good Catholic, which is their job. The message they're sending is, "You're out of line with the Church, and cannot consider yourself a good Catholic until you fix the conflict." I would certainly expect MY pastor to tell me when I'm violating church doctrine. That's what the man gets paid to do, after all.

 

[Anguille]

I don't blame Patrick Kennedy for telling the truth. Why shouldn't he?

Transparency is a good thing. Something the Catholic Church is not very familiar with though.

 

[Valerie]

He released 3 year old information that he thought would be of political value to him.

How so?

 

[Anguille]

They're instructing him on how to be a good Catholic, which is their job. The message they're sending is, "You're out of line with the Church, and cannot consider yourself a good Catholic until you fix the conflict." I would certainly expect MY pastor to tell me when I'm violating church doctrine. That's what the man gets paid to do, after all.

A good Catholic would do his job, the one he swore to perform if elected. His job is to represent the citizens who elected him, not the Pope over in Italy.

There has been a lot of buzz on these boards about whether Muslims can do their jobs as soldiers yet here we have people condemning a Catholic politition for doing his job properly.

 

[Bfgrn]

I don't. I think the Kennedy's need to find a religion that fits their lifestyle and beliefs. Catholicism ain't it. and Pelosi and any other abortion advocate should vacate the pew also.

Although, I agree that the Kennedy's should find a faith that actually fits their beliefs, I have a problem with the church (I am Lutheran not Catholic) using the Sacraments in this manner. I believe that the Sacraments are a means of Grace. I do not believe that we here on Earth should be standing between God's Grace and those who seek it.

In this case, the Sacrament is being used as a form of church discipline. The church has the right to do so, but should only do so with the intention or restoring someone to the faith. This appears to be more of a political statement than anything else.

If the Kennedy's are going to be punished for this, then wouldn't it follow suit that any Catholic who is pro-choice should be excluded from the Sacrament as well?

Immie

Many, many, many Catholics are barred from receiving communion when they are out of step with the teachings of the Church. This is absolutely not an unusual occurance - go to a Catholic Church, anywhere in the world, on any Sunday and you are likely to find a few who are not receiving communion.

I was raised Catholic...taking communion or not is a choice made by the parishioner not the priest...

When we attend mass we ALL enter His house as sinners...priests included...this and the other crap the Catholic church is pulling is 100% politics...and it's bullshit...

You right wingers need to look at the authoritarian Catholic church and then look in a mirror...

 

[Cecilie1200]

Oh you're just splitting hairs. They're punishing him for his support of abortion. Now you punish people when you want them to change behavior so they may as well have written a formal request.

No I'm not. Are you Catholic? Because you may not understand it if you're not. But there is a huge difference..... The Church is perfectly right to bar someone from communion if that person is acting against Church principles.... the Church is very clear on it's stance on abortion.

It was not trying to get Kennedy to change his stance - it was standing by its own. What the hell is that to do with anyone other than Kennedy and his Church?

Have to agree.
The church has a right to set the rules. You can comply or find a new church.

The church has a problem though in that legal abortion is the rule of the land. They are restricting any Catholic who may seek elected office. Once elected, you are obligated to uphold the laws of the land, not the laws of the Church

Sorry, but that's a specious argument, because "abortion is the law of the land and you have to uphold it" does not in any way require a Congressmember to vote in support of abortion. I know you WISH it were illegal for politicians to oppose abortion and vote against abortion bills, but it isn't and likely never will be.

Peddle that bullshit to someone who needs the manure.

 

[Anguille]

He released 3 year old information that he thought would be of political value to him.

How so?

It would be interesting to know just how letting other Catholics know that their bishop opposes the way he votes would be a political advantage for him.

 

[Valerie]

He released 3 year old information that he thought would be of political value to him.

How so?

It would be interesting to know just how letting other Catholics know that their bishop opposes the way he votes would be a political advantage for him.

This stat is several years old, but still close to today's numbers.....

Rhode Island remains the nation's most Roman Catholic state with 61 percent of the population listed as members of the church

Rhode Island tops list of most-Catholic states | Deseret News (Salt Lake City) Newspaper | Find Articles at BNET

 

[Anguille]

How so?

It would be interesting to know just how letting other Catholics know that their bishop opposes the way he votes would be a political advantage for him.

This stat is several years old, but still close to today's numbers.....

Rhode Island remains the nation's most Roman Catholic state with 61 percent of the population listed as members of the church

Rhode Island tops list of most-Catholic states | Deseret News (Salt Lake City) Newspaper | Find Articles at BNET

Thanks. I guessed as much. The only political advantage I could see for Kernnedy would be in gaining the confidence of non Catholic freedom of choice supporters like myself. While I'm sure there are many Freedom of choice supporters in RI, many of them are Catholic.

But thanks to the article SiModo linked to they can all now rest assured that it okay to continue voting for Kennedy. The church isn't going bar them from communion or stop taking their donations.

 

[California Girl]

So, you didn't need to duck when the actual point flew over your head. This has absolutely no bearing on the discussion. The Church was not requestiong or instructing Kennedy on anything. He was instructed not to take communion because of his support for abortion. That is absolutely NOT instructing or requesting him to do anything - not surprized you don't see the difference.

Except, it is instructing him practically to change his views on Abortion. We both know that exactly what the Church is sending as a message by doing this.

They're instructing him on how to be a good Catholic, which is their job. The message they're sending is, "You're out of line with the Church, and cannot consider yourself a good Catholic until you fix the conflict." I would certainly expect MY pastor to tell me when I'm violating church doctrine. That's what the man gets paid to do, after all.

That about sums it up. All Catholics know the process, we all know what being a Catholic means. It's not exactly rocket science.

 

[California Girl]

Although, I agree that the Kennedy's should find a faith that actually fits their beliefs, I have a problem with the church (I am Lutheran not Catholic) using the Sacraments in this manner. I believe that the Sacraments are a means of Grace. I do not believe that we here on Earth should be standing between God's Grace and those who seek it.

In this case, the Sacrament is being used as a form of church discipline. The church has the right to do so, but should only do so with the intention or restoring someone to the faith. This appears to be more of a political statement than anything else.

If the Kennedy's are going to be punished for this, then wouldn't it follow suit that any Catholic who is pro-choice should be excluded from the Sacrament as well?

Immie

Many, many, many Catholics are barred from receiving communion when they are out of step with the teachings of the Church. This is absolutely not an unusual occurance - go to a Catholic Church, anywhere in the world, on any Sunday and you are likely to find a few who are not receiving communion.

I was raised Catholic...taking communion or not is a choice made by the parishioner not the priest...

When we attend mass we ALL enter His house as sinners...priests included...this and the other crap the Catholic church is pulling is 100% politics...and it's bullshit...

You right wingers need to look at the authoritarian Catholic church and then look in a mirror...

If you were raised Catholic then you would be aware that the Church does, often, advise Catholics that they should not take communion. It is hardly a rare occurance. Happens all the time.

You are welcome to your view, and the Church certainly does take a political stance - when the politics are of some importance to the Church.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm not kidding. If a bishop or priest decides to deny a parishioner communion because they are a politician who can effect policy on abortion, that seems to be in line with the Pope's specific orders on this particular tenet. However, this decision is between the priest and that parishioner, only. It is a private matter. By making it public, the bishop has politicized Catholicism and I think that is way out of line. I'm a Roman Catholic, but it does not mean I defend the Church when I think it is out of line.

Actually, my understanding of the Catholic Church is that it's NOT "just between the priest and the parishioner". The Catholic heirarchy is set up so that higher officials DO have a say in how the priests administer their duties, including Communion. The Catholic Church throughout its history has always been concerned about and involved in the conduct of everyday political affairs and how they should be approached from a religious view. It's actually sort of amusing, the idea that so many people have that religion should be something totally divorced from one's actions and behavior.

If you support abortion, whether as a private citizen or as a politician, you are not a good Catholic and not eligible for Communion in that church. End of story.

LOL. The Church itself has stated that the issue IS between those two. And, read the rest of the thread for information about what the Church says about voters and politicians.

Your catching up should prevent additional foolishness.

I'm not talking about "between the priest and parishioner" as opposed to "between the priest, parishioner, and the news media". Catholic priests don't get to individually decide for themselves what doctrine and policy are and how to administer them, and we both know it.

Nice attempt at willful misundertanding, though.

 

[Anguille]

we all know what being a Catholic means. It's not exactly rocket science.

Yeah, it's easy as pie.

 

[Si modo]

Although, I agree that the Kennedy's should find a faith that actually fits their beliefs, I have a problem with the church (I am Lutheran not Catholic) using the Sacraments in this manner. I believe that the Sacraments are a means of Grace. I do not believe that we here on Earth should be standing between God's Grace and those who seek it.

In this case, the Sacrament is being used as a form of church discipline. The church has the right to do so, but should only do so with the intention or restoring someone to the faith. This appears to be more of a political statement than anything else.

If the Kennedy's are going to be punished for this, then wouldn't it follow suit that any Catholic who is pro-choice should be excluded from the Sacrament as well?

Immie

Many, many, many Catholics are barred from receiving communion when they are out of step with the teachings of the Church. This is absolutely not an unusual occurance - go to a Catholic Church, anywhere in the world, on any Sunday and you are likely to find a few who are not receiving communion.

I was raised Catholic...taking communion or not is a choice made by the parishioner not the priest...

When we attend mass we ALL enter His house as sinners...priests included...this and the other crap the Catholic church is pulling is 100% politics...and it's bullshit...

You right wingers need to look at the authoritarian Catholic church and then look in a mirror...

Surprise, I'm a right winger.

 

[Bfgrn]

Many, many, many Catholics are barred from receiving communion when they are out of step with the teachings of the Church. This is absolutely not an unusual occurance - go to a Catholic Church, anywhere in the world, on any Sunday and you are likely to find a few who are not receiving communion.

I was raised Catholic...taking communion or not is a choice made by the parishioner not the priest...

When we attend mass we ALL enter His house as sinners...priests included...this and the other crap the Catholic church is pulling is 100% politics...and it's bullshit...

You right wingers need to look at the authoritarian Catholic church and then look in a mirror...

Surprise, I'm a right winger.

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer

 

[Si modo]

I was raised Catholic...taking communion or not is a choice made by the parishioner not the priest...

When we attend mass we ALL enter His house as sinners...priests included...this and the other crap the Catholic church is pulling is 100% politics...and it's bullshit...

You right wingers need to look at the authoritarian Catholic church and then look in a mirror...

Surprise, I'm a right winger.

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer

That explains Stalin, Franco, and Mussolini, right?

 

[Bfgrn]

Surprise, I'm a right winger.

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer

That explains Stalin, Franco, and Mussolini, right?

Yes, it does if you are able to understand parochial indoctrination...Did Stalin learn his whole life that capitalism was the system that needed to be "conserved"... Is that what the Bolsheviks taught? Did he learn to defend capitalism at the Georgian Orthodox seminary?

Conservatism is based on latitude, longitude and date of birth.
Me