ME109K Fighter

[Vrenn]

There is some bad info coming out on the P-51D versus the ME109. The first P-51B flew in Europe in December 1943. The P-51D made it's entry into Europe in the just before D Day in June 1944. The initial order delivered was 1500.

Some believe that the P-51D was the quintennial WWII fighter. But the real reason it was so successful was that the number of front line fighters like the ME109K, the TA152 and the FW190D were getting very short supplied. You can make a ton of fighters but the spare parts need to be available and the Luftwaffe just didn't have the manufacturing capabilities to support spare parts. I remember trying to get warbirds in SEA to fly their missions but our spare parts means we had at least 1 (sometimes 3) birds on the ground as K-balls. As in we stripped the parts to keep the others flying. Plus, we also flew birds not in real combat conditions because we needed numbers. Notice, I am not commenting on the lack of seasoned Luftwaffe pilots since in 1944, there were still quite a few of them flying.

Now, let's compare the two fighters that were produced in late 1943 to middle 1944, the P-51B/C/D and the ME109K-4.

Here is a bit of info on top speeds. The P-51B was faster than the P-51D. The D had superior combat awareness with it's bubble canopy and a better gun site. Top speed on the D was 437 which is really cooking for a prop plane. I won't go into the stats on the P-51D because that's been done to death.

Now let's look at the forgotten ME109K-4. The K-4 was the last 109 to be produced in numbers. It's top speed was 431mph. But you have to understand, both the top speed of both fighters were only used to escape with. No fighter fought any faster than 250 to 300 mph. At top speed, you were basically flying in a straight line hoping your were faster than your opponent. And the top speeds were the ideal speeds. Not every bird was capable of flying that fast and the only way to find out was to engage.

Here are the stats in metrics for the K-4

​

[td]Bf.109K-4 Specification[/td]
[td]
Crew

[/td]
[td]1[/td] [th]Dimensions[/th]
[td]
Wing span, m

[/td]
[td]10.00[/td]

[td]
Length, m

[/td]​

[td]8.85[/td]

[td]
Height, m

[/td]​

[td]2.50[/td]

[td]
Wing area, m²

[/td]​

[td]16.10[/td][th]Powerplant[/th]

[td]
PE Daimler-Benz DB-605ASCM, hp

[/td]​

[td]2000[/td][th]Weight, kg:[/th]

[td]
Loaded weight

[/td]​

[td]3100[/td]

[td]
Maximum takeoff weight

[/td]​

[td]3400[/td][th]Performance[/th]

[td]
Maximum speed at sea level, km/h

[/td]​

[td]605[/td]

[td]
Maximum speed at altitude 8700m, km/h

[/td]​

[td]695[/td]

[td]
Maximum rate of climb, m/min

[/td]​

[td]1470[/td]

[td]
Service ceiling, m

[/td]​

[td]12500[/td]

[td]
Service range, km

[/td]​

[td]570[/td][th]Armament[/th]

[td]
30-mm MK-103 or MK108 cannon with 60 cartridges,
2 × 15-mm MG-151 cannon with 220 cartridges on each one

[/td]​

[td]250
[/td]

​

At low altitude (below 12,000 feet) the P-51 was not one the better fighters but the k-4 was arguably the best at low altitude. The top speed at sea level for the P-51D was between 240 to 280 mph. But the top speed as sea level for the K-4 was 375MPH. Above 20K, the P-51D hit it's 437 mph but the last versions of the K-4 could hit 449. It all came down to aerodynamics weight and power. And the K-4 was better.

Diving and turning also went to the K-4 making the K-4 ideally the best WWII fighter ever made.

Why was it not recognized as such? The Unites States was churning out the P-51D, P-47D and the P-38J/L at an alarming rate which overwhelmed the 109K-4

 

[justoffal]

There is some bad info coming out on the P-51D versus the ME109. The first P-51B flew in Europe in December 1943. The P-51D made it's entry into Europe in the just before D Day in June 1944. The initial order delivered was 1500.

Some believe that the P-51D was the quintennial WWII fighter. But the real reason it was so successful was that the number of front line fighters like the ME109K, the TA152 and the FW190D were getting very short supplied. You can make a ton of fighters but the spare parts need to be available and the Luftwaffe just didn't have the manufacturing capabilities to support spare parts. I remember trying to get warbirds in SEA to fly their missions but our spare parts means we had at least 1 (sometimes 3) birds on the ground as K-balls. As in we stripped the parts to keep the others flying. Plus, we also flew birds not in real combat conditions because we needed numbers. Notice, I am not commenting on the lack of seasoned Luftwaffe pilots since in 1944, there were still quite a few of them flying.

Now, let's compare the two fighters that were produced in late 1943 to middle 1944, the P-51B/C/D and the ME109K-4.

Here is a bit of info on top speeds. The P-51B was faster than the P-51D. The D had superior combat awareness with it's bubble canopy and a better gun site. Top speed on the D was 437 which is really cooking for a prop plane. I won't go into the stats on the P-51D because that's been done to death.

Now let's look at the forgotten ME109K-4. The K-4 was the last 109 to be produced in numbers. It's top speed was 431mph. But you have to understand, both the top speed of both fighters were only used to escape with. No fighter fought any faster than 250 to 300 mph. At top speed, you were basically flying in a straight line hoping your were faster than your opponent. And the top speeds were the ideal speeds. Not every bird was capable of flying that fast and the only way to find out was to engage.

Here are the stats in metrics for the K-4

​

[td]Bf.109K-4 Specification[/td]
[td]
Crew

[/td]
[td]1[/td] [th]Dimensions[/th]
[td]
Wing span, m

[/td]
[td]10.00[/td]

[td]

Length, m



[/td]​

[td]8.85[/td]

[td]

Height, m



[/td]​

[td]2.50[/td]

[td]

Wing area, m²



[/td]​

[td]16.10[/td][th]Powerplant[/th]

[td]

PE Daimler-Benz DB-605ASCM, hp



[/td]​

[td]2000[/td][th]Weight, kg:[/th]

[td]

Loaded weight



[/td]​

[td]3100[/td]

[td]

Maximum takeoff weight



[/td]​

[td]3400[/td][th]Performance[/th]

[td]

Maximum speed at sea level, km/h



[/td]​

[td]605[/td]

[td]

Maximum speed at altitude 8700m, km/h



[/td]​

[td]695[/td]

[td]

Maximum rate of climb, m/min



[/td]​

[td]1470[/td]

[td]

Service ceiling, m



[/td]​

[td]12500[/td]

[td]

Service range, km



[/td]​

[td]570[/td][th]Armament[/th]

[td]

30-mm MK-103 or MK108 cannon with 60 cartridges,

2 × 15-mm MG-151 cannon with 220 cartridges on each one



[/td]​

[td]250
[/td]

​

At low altitude (below 12,000 feet) the P-51 was not one the better fighters but the k-4 was arguably the best at low altitude. The top speed at sea level for the P-51D was between 240 to 280 mph. But the top speed as sea level for the K-4 was 375MPH. Above 20K, the P-51D hit it's 437 mph but the last versions of the K-4 could hit 449. It all came down to aerodynamics weight and power. And the K-4 was better.

Diving and turning also went to the K-4 making the K-4 ideally the best WWII fighter ever made.

Why was it not recognized as such? The Unites States was churning out the P-51D, P-47D and the P-38J/L at an alarming rate which overwhelmed the 109K-4

Excellent

 

[Kruska]

There is some bad info coming out on the P-51D versus the ME109. The first P-51B flew in Europe in December 1943. The P-51D made it's entry into Europe in the just before D Day in June 1944. The initial order delivered was 1500.

Some believe that the P-51D was the quintennial WWII fighter. But the real reason it was so successful was that the number of front line fighters like the ME109K, the TA152 and the FW190D were getting very short supplied. You can make a ton of fighters but the spare parts need to be available and the Luftwaffe just didn't have the manufacturing capabilities to support spare parts. I remember trying to get warbirds in SEA to fly their missions but our spare parts means we had at least 1 (sometimes 3) birds on the ground as K-balls. As in we stripped the parts to keep the others flying. Plus, we also flew birds not in real combat conditions because we needed numbers. Notice, I am not commenting on the lack of seasoned Luftwaffe pilots since in 1944, there were still quite a few of them flying.

Now, let's compare the two fighters that were produced in late 1943 to middle 1944, the P-51B/C/D and the ME109K-4.

Here is a bit of info on top speeds. The P-51B was faster than the P-51D. The D had superior combat awareness with it's bubble canopy and a better gun site. Top speed on the D was 437 which is really cooking for a prop plane. I won't go into the stats on the P-51D because that's been done to death.

Now let's look at the forgotten ME109K-4. The K-4 was the last 109 to be produced in numbers. It's top speed was 431mph. But you have to understand, both the top speed of both fighters were only used to escape with. No fighter fought any faster than 250 to 300 mph. At top speed, you were basically flying in a straight line hoping your were faster than your opponent. And the top speeds were the ideal speeds. Not every bird was capable of flying that fast and the only way to find out was to engage.

Here are the stats in metrics for the K-4

​

[td]Bf.109K-4 Specification[/td]
[td]
Crew

[/td]
[td]1[/td] [th]Dimensions[/th]
[td]
Wing span, m

[/td]
[td]10.00[/td]

[td]

Length, m



[/td]​

[td]8.85[/td]

[td]

Height, m



[/td]​

[td]2.50[/td]

[td]

Wing area, m²



[/td]​

[td]16.10[/td][th]Powerplant[/th]

[td]

PE Daimler-Benz DB-605ASCM, hp



[/td]​

[td]2000[/td][th]Weight, kg:[/th]

[td]

Loaded weight



[/td]​

[td]3100[/td]

[td]

Maximum takeoff weight



[/td]​

[td]3400[/td][th]Performance[/th]

[td]

Maximum speed at sea level, km/h



[/td]​

[td]605[/td]

[td]

Maximum speed at altitude 8700m, km/h



[/td]​

[td]695[/td]

[td]

Maximum rate of climb, m/min



[/td]​

[td]1470[/td]

[td]

Service ceiling, m



[/td]​

[td]12500[/td]

[td]

Service range, km



[/td]​

[td]570[/td][th]Armament[/th]

[td]

30-mm MK-103 or MK108 cannon with 60 cartridges,

2 × 15-mm MG-151 cannon with 220 cartridges on each one



[/td]​

[td]250
[/td]

​

At low altitude (below 12,000 feet) the P-51 was not one the better fighters but the k-4 was arguably the best at low altitude. The top speed at sea level for the P-51D was between 240 to 280 mph. But the top speed as sea level for the K-4 was 375MPH. Above 20K, the P-51D hit it's 437 mph but the last versions of the K-4 could hit 449. It all came down to aerodynamics weight and power. And the K-4 was better.

Diving and turning also went to the K-4 making the K-4 ideally the best WWII fighter ever made.

Why was it not recognized as such? The Unites States was churning out the P-51D, P-47D and the P-38J/L at an alarming rate which overwhelmed the 109K-4

My old man would have heatedly disagreed with you in regards to his favorite and "best" Luftwaffe fighter.
The "Fw-190D-13" - one of many fighter aircraft he flew.

The main and "only" issue reigning the Luftwaffe procurement/requirement from end of 1943 was Bomber interception aka Pulk destroying capabilities (high altitude) and being aware of the mediocre training/capabilities of it's pilots.

Due to missing numbers, the Fw-D9 and the K-4 - originally designed as air superiority fighters were thrown into the Pulk destroyer role. And thus proved to be rather inadequate for that role.

Therefore the K-4 had have vastly exceeded the capabilities of an "average" Luftwaffe pilot to hit anything with it's single 30mm cannon. The remaining 2× 15-mm MG-151 cannon simply didn't pack the punch to wreak havoc by those pilots who in vast majority, emptied their ammo at distances of 400m+. as compared to the D-13 of my father who beheld 2x 20-mm-Kanonen MG 151/20 and a central Mk 103. Some D-11 variants, IIRC packed 4x 20-mm-Kanonen MG 151/20 plus 2x 13 mm.

Other advantages of the D-11 or D13 to the K4 - where the far better cockpit,canopy view and space - and maybe most important a wide carriage as opposed to the narrow K-4 carriage - that was extremely prone to crashes already on takeoff and proved to be disastrous for those "new" pilots.

In the hands of experienced pilots the K-4 would certainly have had a far better impact - then it proved to have.

My favorite in regards to Pulk destroyers would have been the Do-335 awesome flight characteristics and armament.
Near Pfaffenhofen my father had a flight trial with a Do-335 and according to him - it was the better plane in theory for that Pulk destroyer task, but technically nowhere near the factual readiness status of a D-11 or D-13.

 

[Vrenn]

Excellent

Here is a tidbit. From 1942 until early 1943, the Luftwaffe put a 11 to one fighter advantage over France and Germany. They already knew that long ranged fighter cover was needed for the bombers but only had one fighter capable of doing that, the P-38G. And the doctrine at the time was for the fighters to fly in formation with the bombers. Now, that had to be stupidest idea. The P-38 could not fight at 160mph. It had to take time to spool up and get to it's fighting speed of at least 300 mph. If both the P-38G and the ME109E/F were at 300 miles per hour, the P-38 would eat the 109s lunch. So during that time, the only thing the fighter cover was doing was giving the 109s more targets and hopes that the bombers would not be shot down at such an alarming rate. By the middle of 1943, the P-47 was introduced to take the first leg where the P-38 would have more fuel. They also allowed the fighters to fly ahead and above the bombers at speed. All of a sudden, the Luftwaffe no longer had the turnkey shoot it had. They now faced a high altitude P-47D over France and a powered up P-38J over Germany. No longer was it an 11 to one deficit for the US. Plus the AAF was starting it's fighter sweeps with two of the best air to ground fighters in WWII. By the beginning of 1944, the Luftwaffe had lost a whole bunch of war assets between the two fighters and the two bombers. The beginning of 1944, the numbers had reversed where the AAF fighters out numbered the Luftwaffe.

 

[justoffal]

Here is a tidbit. From 1942 until early 1943, the Luftwaffe put a 11 to one fighter advantage over France and Germany. They already knew that long ranged fighter cover was needed for the bombers but only had one fighter capable of doing that, the P-38G. And the doctrine at the time was for the fighters to fly in formation with the bombers. Now, that had to be stupidest idea. The P-38 could not fight at 160mph. It had to take time to spool up and get to it's fighting speed of at least 300 mph. If both the P-38G and the ME109E/F were at 300 miles per hour, the P-38 would eat the 109s lunch. So during that time, the only thing the fighter cover was doing was giving the 109s more targets and hopes that the bombers would not be shot down at such an alarming rate. By the middle of 1943, the P-47 was introduced to take the first leg where the P-38 would have more fuel. They also allowed the fighters to fly ahead and above the bombers at speed. All of a sudden, the Luftwaffe no longer had the turnkey shoot it had. They now faced a high altitude P-47D over France and a powered up P-38J over Germany. No longer was it an 11 to one deficit for the US. Plus the AAF was starting it's fighter sweeps with two of the best air to ground fighters in WWII. By the beginning of 1944, the Luftwaffe had lost a whole bunch of war assets between the two fighters and the two bombers. The beginning of 1944, the numbers had reversed where the AAF fighters out numbered the Luftwaffe.

One gets the distinct impression that had the German war machine been better managed it may have been unstoppable.

 

[Mac-7]

My old man would have heatedly disagreed with you in regards to his favorite and "best" Luftwaffe fighter.
The "Fw-190D-13" - one of many fighter aircraft he flew.

Assuming you are telling the truth, being a German explains much of your hate for America

 

[Kruska]

One gets the distinct impression that had the German war machine been better managed it may have been unstoppable.

They NEVER had the mineral resources and industrial means to compete with the Soviet Union nor the USA.

 

[1srelluc]

By all accounts the Dora was awesome.....What few of them that were in the hands of capable pilots.

 

[Kruska]

Assuming you are telling the truth, being a German explains much of your hate for America

I am a South-African and a German - and I DO NOT HATE Americans you dolt - I simply DESPISE radical MAGA's and the foreign policy of the US GOVERNMENT.

Okay? - back to topic

 

[Mac-7]

They NEVER had the mineral resources and industrial means to compete with the Soviet Union nor the USA.

The soviet union could not have defeated germany without US help

 

[Vrenn]

One gets the distinct impression that had the German war machine been better managed it may have been unstoppable.

I think it was managed better than others. Think about this, a country with the size of Texas with the same population getting as far along as it did. The first half (as long as hitler was winning) Germany did very few mistakes. But in late 1943, things started going wrong. Had Germany been a couple of times bigger and had more natural resources inside it's borders Europe would have fallen and so would have Russia. Only USA had the plans just case that happened. No, Germany could not win anymore than Italy and Japan could.

 

[Vrenn]

The soviet union could not have defeated germany without US help

Had the US not sent all those equipment, supplies and food, Germany would have been sitting in Moscow in short order. Are you aware that we sent even P-40s and Shermans to them in large numbers? How about medium bombers. At that time, the Yak-3 and the t-34 were still on the drawing boards.

 

[Vrenn]

My old man would have heatedly disagreed with you in regards to his favorite and "best" Luftwaffe fighter.
The "Fw-190D-13" - one of many fighter aircraft he flew.

The main and "only" issue reigning the Luftwaffe procurement/requirement from end of 1943 was Bomber interception aka Pulk destroying capabilities (high altitude) and being aware of the mediocre training/capabilities of it's pilots.

Due to missing numbers, the Fw-D9 and the K-4 - originally designed as air superiority fighters were thrown into the Pulk destroyer role. And thus proved to be rather inadequate for that role.

Therefore the K-4 had have vastly exceeded the capabilities of an "average" Luftwaffe pilot to hit anything with it's single 30mm cannon. The remaining 2× 15-mm MG-151 cannon simply didn't pack the punch to wreak havoc by those pilots who in vast majority, emptied their ammo at distances of 400m+. as compared to the D-13 of my father who beheld 2x 20-mm-Kanonen MG 151/20 and a central Mk 103. Some D-11 variants, IIRC packed 4x 20-mm-Kanonen MG 151/20 plus 2x 13 mm.

Other advantages of the D-11 or D13 to the K4 - where the far better cockpit,canopy view and space - and maybe most important a wide carriage as opposed to the narrow K-4 carriage - that was extremely prone to crashes already on takeoff and proved to be disastrous for those "new" pilots.

In the hands of experienced pilots the K-4 would certainly have had a far better impact - then it proved to have.

My favorite in regards to Pulk destroyers would have been the Do-335 awesome flight characteristics and armament.
Near Pfaffenhofen my father had a flight trial with a Do-335 and according to him - it was the better plane in theory for that Pulk destroyer task, but technically nowhere near the factual readiness status of a D-11 or D-13.

There only 23 D-13s made with 17 making it into combat. Not enough to have any impact. Another too little too late.

As for the D-11, only 17 prototypes were made and it never saw combat.

 

[Vrenn]

They NEVER had the mineral resources and industrial means to compete with the Soviet Union nor the USA.

Without the lend lease program, USSR would have fallen. Are you aware, part of that package was supplies and tooling to build the factories on the other side of the Urals?

 

[martybegan]

They NEVER had the mineral resources and industrial means to compete with the Soviet Union nor the USA.

You can also add in the population differences.

This had the impact on the air war due to it allowing the US to rotate its best pilots back to the US to train the next waves of pilots.

This not only impacted the Germans, but the Japanese as well, who had their training setup for quality over quantity, and when they lost their best pilots at Midway and then the Marianas Turkey Shoot, they could never recover.

 

[Kruska]

The soviet union could not have defeated germany without US help

Off course they could - the US and British supplies came at a time when the Soviet industrial shift to behind the Ural was underway.
So it helped them to deny the Germans the Caucasus, Leningrad & Moscow vicinity. Upon Sept. 1942 the Soviets were churning out 3-4 times the quantities of Germany - whilst being able to field 3x more troops. Attacking the Soviet-Union in 1941 was by far the Austrians biggest mistake - aside from Dunkirk.

 

[westwall]

My old man would have heatedly disagreed with you in regards to his favorite and "best" Luftwaffe fighter.
The "Fw-190D-13" - one of many fighter aircraft he flew.

The main and "only" issue reigning the Luftwaffe procurement/requirement from end of 1943 was Bomber interception aka Pulk destroying capabilities (high altitude) and being aware of the mediocre training/capabilities of it's pilots.

Due to missing numbers, the Fw-D9 and the K-4 - originally designed as air superiority fighters were thrown into the Pulk destroyer role. And thus proved to be rather inadequate for that role.

Therefore the K-4 had have vastly exceeded the capabilities of an "average" Luftwaffe pilot to hit anything with it's single 30mm cannon. The remaining 2× 15-mm MG-151 cannon simply didn't pack the punch to wreak havoc by those pilots who in vast majority, emptied their ammo at distances of 400m+. as compared to the D-13 of my father who beheld 2x 20-mm-Kanonen MG 151/20 and a central Mk 103. Some D-11 variants, IIRC packed 4x 20-mm-Kanonen MG 151/20 plus 2x 13 mm.

Other advantages of the D-11 or D13 to the K4 - where the far better cockpit,canopy view and space - and maybe most important a wide carriage as opposed to the narrow K-4 carriage - that was extremely prone to crashes already on takeoff and proved to be disastrous for those "new" pilots.

In the hands of experienced pilots the K-4 would certainly have had a far better impact - then it proved to have.

My favorite in regards to Pulk destroyers would have been the Do-335 awesome flight characteristics and armament.
Near Pfaffenhofen my father had a flight trial with a Do-335 and according to him - it was the better plane in theory for that Pulk destroyer task, but technically nowhere near the factual readiness status of a D-11 or D-13.

There were very few D13s made, so the chance your dad flew one is next to nil, unless he was an Experten.

 

[westwall]

Here is a tidbit. From 1942 until early 1943, the Luftwaffe put a 11 to one fighter advantage over France and Germany. They already knew that long ranged fighter cover was needed for the bombers but only had one fighter capable of doing that, the P-38G. And the doctrine at the time was for the fighters to fly in formation with the bombers. Now, that had to be stupidest idea. The P-38 could not fight at 160mph. It had to take time to spool up and get to it's fighting speed of at least 300 mph. If both the P-38G and the ME109E/F were at 300 miles per hour, the P-38 would eat the 109s lunch. So during that time, the only thing the fighter cover was doing was giving the 109s more targets and hopes that the bombers would not be shot down at such an alarming rate. By the middle of 1943, the P-47 was introduced to take the first leg where the P-38 would have more fuel. They also allowed the fighters to fly ahead and above the bombers at speed. All of a sudden, the Luftwaffe no longer had the turnkey shoot it had. They now faced a high altitude P-47D over France and a powered up P-38J over Germany. No longer was it an 11 to one deficit for the US. Plus the AAF was starting it's fighter sweeps with two of the best air to ground fighters in WWII. By the beginning of 1944, the Luftwaffe had lost a whole bunch of war assets between the two fighters and the two bombers. The beginning of 1944, the numbers had reversed where the AAF fighters out numbered the Luftwaffe.

The P-38 could run rings around any make of Me109 at altitudes of 15,000 feet or less. With the Fowler flaps it could turn inside a 109 with ease. It could out turn a Zero.

 

[westwall]

Had the US not sent all those equipment, supplies and food, Germany would have been sitting in Moscow in short order. Are you aware that we sent even P-40s and Shermans to them in large numbers? How about medium bombers. At that time, the Yak-3 and the t-34 were still on the drawing boards.

Uh, yeah, we know all about that. The single biggest thing we gave the Soviets were 600,000 trucks.

We mobilized them while the wehrmacht was still horse drawn.

 

[AZrailwhale]

There is some bad info coming out on the P-51D versus the ME109. The first P-51B flew in Europe in December 1943. The P-51D made it's entry into Europe in the just before D Day in June 1944. The initial order delivered was 1500.

Some believe that the P-51D was the quintennial WWII fighter. But the real reason it was so successful was that the number of front line fighters like the ME109K, the TA152 and the FW190D were getting very short supplied. You can make a ton of fighters but the spare parts need to be available and the Luftwaffe just didn't have the manufacturing capabilities to support spare parts. I remember trying to get warbirds in SEA to fly their missions but our spare parts means we had at least 1 (sometimes 3) birds on the ground as K-balls. As in we stripped the parts to keep the others flying. Plus, we also flew birds not in real combat conditions because we needed numbers. Notice, I am not commenting on the lack of seasoned Luftwaffe pilots since in 1944, there were still quite a few of them flying.

Now, let's compare the two fighters that were produced in late 1943 to middle 1944, the P-51B/C/D and the ME109K-4.

Here is a bit of info on top speeds. The P-51B was faster than the P-51D. The D had superior combat awareness with it's bubble canopy and a better gun site. Top speed on the D was 437 which is really cooking for a prop plane. I won't go into the stats on the P-51D because that's been done to death.

Now let's look at the forgotten ME109K-4. The K-4 was the last 109 to be produced in numbers. It's top speed was 431mph. But you have to understand, both the top speed of both fighters were only used to escape with. No fighter fought any faster than 250 to 300 mph. At top speed, you were basically flying in a straight line hoping your were faster than your opponent. And the top speeds were the ideal speeds. Not every bird was capable of flying that fast and the only way to find out was to engage.

Here are the stats in metrics for the K-4

​

[td]Bf.109K-4 Specification[/td]
[td]
Crew

[/td]
[td]1[/td] [th]Dimensions[/th]
[td]
Wing span, m

[/td]
[td]10.00[/td]

[td]
Length, m

[/td]​

[td]8.85[/td]

[td]
Height, m

[/td]​

[td]2.50[/td]

[td]
Wing area, m²

[/td]​

[td]16.10[/td][th]Powerplant[/th]

[td]
PE Daimler-Benz DB-605ASCM, hp

[/td]​

[td]2000[/td][th]Weight, kg:[/th]

[td]
Loaded weight

[/td]​

[td]3100[/td]

[td]
Maximum takeoff weight

[/td]​

[td]3400[/td][th]Performance[/th]

[td]
Maximum speed at sea level, km/h

[/td]​

[td]605[/td]

[td]
Maximum speed at altitude 8700m, km/h

[/td]​

[td]695[/td]

[td]
Maximum rate of climb, m/min

[/td]​

[td]1470[/td]

[td]
Service ceiling, m

[/td]​

[td]12500[/td]

[td]
Service range, km

[/td]​

[td]570[/td][th]Armament[/th]

[td]
30-mm MK-103 or MK108 cannon with 60 cartridges,
2 × 15-mm MG-151 cannon with 220 cartridges on each one

[/td]​

[td]250
[/td]

​

At low altitude (below 12,000 feet) the P-51 was not one the better fighters but the k-4 was arguably the best at low altitude. The top speed at sea level for the P-51D was between 240 to 280 mph. But the top speed as sea level for the K-4 was 375MPH. Above 20K, the P-51D hit it's 437 mph but the last versions of the K-4 could hit 449. It all came down to aerodynamics weight and power. And the K-4 was better.

Diving and turning also went to the K-4 making the K-4 ideally the best WWII fighter ever made.

Why was it not recognized as such? The Unites States was churning out the P-51D, P-47D and the P-38J/L at an alarming rate which overwhelmed the 109K-4

The meaningful fighting wasn’t at low altitude. It was at between twenty five and thirty thousand feet where the bomber flew. At that altitude all three American fighters were superior to the operational German fighters. There were only a few hundred Dora’s and about one hundred fifty TA-152s built in total. All the Bf-109s were small, point defense fighters, and all the German fighters were very short ranged compared to their American counterparts. In fact the only operational American fighters with similarly limited range were the P-39 which was obsolete by 1944 and the P-63 which was nearly as fast at altitude as the Bf-109K