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Minimum wage rates.

Supposn

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Minimum wage rates:
Minimum wage rates do not "regulate" prices of labor:
There are many factors affecting prices of products, but they do not "regulate" the market prices of those goods and services.
Realestate and school taxes do not "regulate" the prices of houses, and weather does not regulate the prices of agricultural products. Legally enforced minimum wage rates do not "regulate" labor markets' prices.
///////
The federal minimum wage rate's A MINIMUM, but it's not THE MINIMUM wage rate for our entire nation.
Federal law reduces the extent that a lower wage rate state is able to undermine the wage rates of other USA states. Until the federal law's repealed or the U.S. Supreme Court overturns their prior courts' decisions, the federal minimum wage rate remains to be the federal law.
///////
I'm among the proponents for the federal minimum wage rate to be annually increased gradually in a uniform manner until it achieves a value no less than 125% of its February-1968 purchasing power. Thereafter it should be monitored and automatically be annually, (if required) adjusted to retain no less than that level of purchasing power. Respectfully, Supposn
 

Toddsterpatriot

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Minimum wage rates:
Minimum wage rates do not "regulate" prices of labor:
There are many factors affecting prices of products, but they do not "regulate" the market prices of those goods and services.
Realestate and school taxes do not "regulate" the prices of houses, and weather does not regulate the prices of agricultural products. Legally enforced minimum wage rates do not "regulate" labor markets' prices.
///////
The federal minimum wage rate's A MINIMUM, but it's not THE MINIMUM wage rate for our entire nation.
Federal law reduces the extent that a lower wage rate state is able to undermine the wage rates of other USA states. Until the federal law's repealed or the U.S. Supreme Court overturns their prior courts' decisions, the federal minimum wage rate remains to be the federal law.
///////
I'm among the proponents for the federal minimum wage rate to be annually increased gradually in a uniform manner until it achieves a value no less than 125% of its February-1968 purchasing power. Thereafter it should be monitored and automatically be annually, (if required) adjusted to retain no less than that level of purchasing power. Respectfully, Supposn

Nah.
 

initforme

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No need to raise the min wage. Those employers that pay lower wages are going to have a hard time finding workers. ...as it should be.. Good workers are not going to take those jobs.
 

dudmuck

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Minimum wage rates:
Minimum wage rates do not "regulate" prices of labor:
There are many factors affecting prices of products, but they do not "regulate" the market prices of those goods and services.
Realestate and school taxes do not "regulate" the prices of houses, and weather does not regulate the prices of agricultural products. Legally enforced minimum wage rates do not "regulate" labor markets' prices.
///////
The federal minimum wage rate's A MINIMUM, but it's not THE MINIMUM wage rate for our entire nation.
Federal law reduces the extent that a lower wage rate state is able to undermine the wage rates of other USA states. Until the federal law's repealed or the U.S. Supreme Court overturns their prior courts' decisions, the federal minimum wage rate remains to be the federal law.
///////
I'm among the proponents for the federal minimum wage rate to be annually increased gradually in a uniform manner until it achieves a value no less than 125% of its February-1968 purchasing power. Thereafter it should be monitored and automatically be annually, (if required) adjusted to retain no less than that level of purchasing power. Respectfully, Supposn
we've finally arrived at the answer to understanding this:


For those people... who are coming into the labor workforce brand fresh, not old-timers who’ve been around for a while—the poor, the minorities, the disenfranchised, those with less education, young people who haven’t had the job experience—these people aren’t worth $15 an hour in most cases

in other words, the brown people arent worth a raise.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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Minimum wage rates:
Minimum wage rates do not "regulate" prices of labor:
There are many factors affecting prices of products, but they do not "regulate" the market prices of those goods and services.
Realestate and school taxes do not "regulate" the prices of houses, and weather does not regulate the prices of agricultural products. Legally enforced minimum wage rates do not "regulate" labor markets' prices.
///////
The federal minimum wage rate's A MINIMUM, but it's not THE MINIMUM wage rate for our entire nation.
Federal law reduces the extent that a lower wage rate state is able to undermine the wage rates of other USA states. Until the federal law's repealed or the U.S. Supreme Court overturns their prior courts' decisions, the federal minimum wage rate remains to be the federal law.
///////
I'm among the proponents for the federal minimum wage rate to be annually increased gradually in a uniform manner until it achieves a value no less than 125% of its February-1968 purchasing power. Thereafter it should be monitored and automatically be annually, (if required) adjusted to retain no less than that level of purchasing power. Respectfully, Supposn
we've finally arrived at the answer to understanding this:


For those people... who are coming into the labor workforce brand fresh, not old-timers who’ve been around for a while—the poor, the minorities, the disenfranchised, those with less education, young people who haven’t had the job experience—these people aren’t worth $15 an hour in most cases

in other words, the brown people arent worth a raise.

He's right. People with no skills, no experience, no education...aren't worth $15.
 
OP
S

Supposn

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we've finally arrived at the answer to understanding this:


For those people... who are coming into the labor workforce brand fresh, not old-timers who’ve been around for a while—the poor, the minorities, the disenfranchised, those with less education, young people who haven’t had the job experience—these people aren’t worth $15 an hour in most cases

in other words, the brown people arent worth a raise.
Dudmuck, other words, the brown people aren't worth a raise"?
///////
Excerpted from:
Minimum wage is an issue of character. The essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.
////////
Still whiningToddsterPatriot, you too contend "brown people aren't worth a raise"?
Respectfully, Supposn
 

Toddsterpatriot

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we've finally arrived at the answer to understanding this:


For those people... who are coming into the labor workforce brand fresh, not old-timers who’ve been around for a while—the poor, the minorities, the disenfranchised, those with less education, young people who haven’t had the job experience—these people aren’t worth $15 an hour in most cases

in other words, the brown people arent worth a raise.
Dudmuck, other words, the brown people aren't worth a raise"?
///////
Excerpted from:
Minimum wage is an issue of character. The essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.
////////
Still whiningToddsterPatriot, you too contend "brown people aren't worth a raise"?
Respectfully, Supposn

Workers who are unskilled, uneducated and inexperienced aren't worth $15/hour.
No matter their color. Even if it makes you sad.
 

hadit

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we've finally arrived at the answer to understanding this:


For those people... who are coming into the labor workforce brand fresh, not old-timers who’ve been around for a while—the poor, the minorities, the disenfranchised, those with less education, young people who haven’t had the job experience—these people aren’t worth $15 an hour in most cases

in other words, the brown people arent worth a raise.
Dudmuck, other words, the brown people aren't worth a raise"?
///////
Excerpted from:
Minimum wage is an issue of character. The essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.
////////
Still whiningToddsterPatriot, you too contend "brown people aren't worth a raise"?
Respectfully, Supposn

Workers who are unskilled, uneducated and inexperienced aren't worth $15/hour.
No matter their color. Even if it makes you sad.
Don't fall for the trap. It's not the person that's worth a certain amount of money, it's the JOB they do. I don't care if it's Donald TRUMP!, Quid Pro Biden, or the homeless guy on the corner, it's not worth paying someone $15/hour to push a broom around the floor. Maybe in a few years when inflation drives the price of everything through the roof it will be, but not now.
 
OP
S

Supposn

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For those people... who are coming into the labor workforce brand fresh, not old-timers who’ve been around for a while—the poor, the minorities, the disenfranchised, those with less education, young people who haven’t had the job experience—these people aren’t worth $15 an hour in most cases

in other words, the brown people arent worth a raise.

Dudmuck and Whining ToddsterPatriot, it's not uncommon for employers voice a belief of many of their lower wage rate employees not being worthy of the wages they're paid. But those employers are prohibited from paying less than the minimum and if they reduced the differentials between the minimum and their employees' current wage rates, recruiting and employees would be difficult.

Employers are generally not altruistic. They are not required to hire or retain any individual employees, but rather to practice policies that will increase their net profits and/or reduce their net losses. Minimum wage laws are not of any advantage or disadvantage among enterprises "fishing" within the same labor markets' pools.
Minimum wage rates do, to the extent of their purchasing powers and enforcement, reduce incidences and extents of poverty among wage earners and their dependents.
Respectfully, Supposn
 

Toddsterpatriot

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For those people... who are coming into the labor workforce brand fresh, not old-timers who’ve been around for a while—the poor, the minorities, the disenfranchised, those with less education, young people who haven’t had the job experience—these people aren’t worth $15 an hour in most cases

in other words, the brown people arent worth a raise.

Dudmuck and Whining ToddsterPatriot, it's not uncommon for employers voice a belief of many of their lower wage rate employees not being worthy of the wages they're paid. But those employers are prohibited from paying less than the minimum and if they reduced the differentials between the minimum and their employees' current wage rates, recruiting and employees would be difficult.

Employers are generally not altruistic. They are not required to hire or retain any individual employees, but rather to practice policies that will increase their net profits and/or reduce their net losses. Minimum wage laws are not of any advantage or disadvantage among enterprises "fishing" within the same labor markets' pools.
Minimum wage rates do, to the extent of their purchasing powers and enforcement, reduce incidences and extents of poverty among wage earners and their dependents.
Respectfully, Supposn

Meh.
 

task0778

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For those people... who are coming into the labor workforce brand fresh, not old-timers who’ve been around for a while—the poor, the minorities, the disenfranchised, those with less education, young people who haven’t had the job experience—these people aren’t worth $15 an hour in most cases

in other words, the brown people arent worth a raise.

Dudmuck and Whining ToddsterPatriot, it's not uncommon for employers voice a belief of many of their lower wage rate employees not being worthy of the wages they're paid. But those employers are prohibited from paying less than the minimum and if they reduced the differentials between the minimum and their employees' current wage rates, recruiting and employees would be difficult.

Employers are generally not altruistic. They are not required to hire or retain any individual employees, but rather to practice policies that will increase their net profits and/or reduce their net losses. Minimum wage laws are not of any advantage or disadvantage among enterprises "fishing" within the same labor markets' pools.
Minimum wage rates do, to the extent of their purchasing powers and enforcement, reduce incidences and extents of poverty among wage earners and their dependents.
Respectfully, Supposn
Employees are not forced to accept whatever the wage offered is, nor are they prohibited from quitting that job for a better paying one. So it's a 2-way street, if you short-change your employees by paying them as little as possible then you wind up with a lot of turnover, which means you continually have to train new people.

One of the problems with raising the minimum wage is that it incentivizes employers to automate people out of a job. Or employers find other ways to cut the cost of labor, fewer hours worked or reduced benefits for instance. Larger companies have a certain amount of scale that helps them spread the higher cost of labor around, but the small business don't have that luxury and some of them have to close their doors and go out of business. Which one reason why the CBO estimated that raising the M-Wage to $15/hr would cost around 1.3 million jobs.

And BTW, employees are not generally altruistic either.
 

Canon Shooter

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He's right. People with no skills, no experience, no education...aren't worth $15.
An hour of a persons life isn’t worth $15?

I'm not paying an employee for an hour of his life. I'm paying an employee for what he can accomplish in an hour of his life.

On October 1, 2024, my company will no longer have a custodial department. That's the date when I would have to start paying them $13 an hour. Sorry, but that's simply too much to pay someone to sweep the floor, clean the restrooms, etc, considering it will be far less expensive for me to contract that out to a third party cleaning company. This is an example of how a rise in the minimum wage will cost jobs.

Could I keep them and pay them more? Sure I could. But I would also have to raise my fees and prices in order to absorb the increase, and that will cost me customers. From a business perspective, customers are far more important than a custodial department...
 
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Supposn

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... One of the problems with raising the minimum wage is that it incentivizes employers to automate people out of a job. ... Which one reason why the CBO estimated that raising the M-Wage to $15/hr would cost around 1.3 million jobs. ...
Task0778, The wage rates of the poorest national economies have the least purchasing powers. Automation is not justified when human labor is available, can accomplish the tasks just as well, and at costs not exceeding automation’s costs. Unsurprisingly, the poorest nations are the slowest to adopt advances in automation. arguing against higher wages because they encourage automation, is to argue in favor of poverty.

The Congressional Budget Office's (CBO's) minimum wage rate reports are not negative assessments of the proposed rate increases. The reports' unexpectedly extremely small total increased incomes projections attributed to lower income families disregard projected shifts of public supported to individually earned incomes. The net projected differences are small but their economic and social benefits are substantial.
The minimum wage rate more or less directly affects purchasing powers of employed and unemployed workers and the dependents of those workers earning rates within the lower bracket of wage rates.
Minimum wage rate's effects upon Social Security retirees' purchasing powers are affected by the minimum rates affects upon beneficiaries' entire histories of wage earnings. More than a decade must transpire before the effects of an enacted rate increase can be fully perceived within retirees' benefits.

To the extent of its purchasing power and enforcement within labor markets, minimum wage rate reduces poverty among wage earners and their dependents. CBO's reports do not state otherwise.
Respectfully, Supposn
 

Flash

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Why in the hell do we allow government turds to set wages?

That should be between the employer and employee.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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The reports' unexpectedly extremely small total increased incomes projections attributed to lower income families disregard projected shifts of public supported to individually earned incomes.

The fact that they project higher budget deficits tends to argue against your claim.
 

Likkmee

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Min wage is needed and it's also bullshit.
On the island Of LikkMee. The law reads:
OK assholes. Company made 50 million.
pResident made 10 Million
You five assistants split 5 of that(his).
Now. Smoke a joint
5 million for head asshole
1 million each for associate assholes.
Cool ?
The 300 downstairs made 30 grand a piece(chump change$15/hr) =9 million,
Their bonus is 30 grand a piece. 9 million more
Profit of company.... 20 million or so...until the accountants get done.
Is this problematic ???
 

task0778

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Automation is not justified when human labor is available, can accomplish the tasks just as well, and at costs not exceeding automation’s costs. Unsurprisingly, the poorest nations are the slowest to adopt advances in automation. arguing against higher wages because they encourage automation, is to argue in favor of poverty.

Justified? Businesses and employers justify their business decisions based on the bottom line, i.e., profit. And they do it on a long term basis, not the here and now. What is the total cost going to be of human labor with ALL of the attendant factors over the next 5 to 10 years vs automating jobs? Or outsourcing some function offshore? Surely you have noticed that over the past 100 years or so, there has been an increase in automation across every sector of our economy, automation and computerization are everywhere. And that requires up front capital to make the change from human labor to machines; businesses and employers do not take that investment lightly, and yet they're doing it at an ever-increasing rate. Why? It should be obvious.

So - higher wages does indeed encourage automation, employers wouldn't be automating jobs out of existence if it didn't make economic sense to do so. And that is not an argument in favor of poverty, it is the reality of substantially raising the minimum wage. It is inescapable that a rise of that much in the MW would cause many small businesses to close, because they can't absorb the higher labor costs that a big corp or business can. AND severely limit the number of startups and expansions too. The CBO came out and told us that such an increase in MW would cost approx 1.3 million jobs what about those people?

The economic reality is that when you raise the cost or price of something the demand for it goes down. When it's the cost of human labor, businesses and employers will make adjustments such as automation or outsourcing. If they can, they'll raise their prices to cover the higher costs of supply. If they can't do that then they'll resort to other alternatives.
 
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Supposn

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I'm not paying an employee for an hour of his life. I'm paying an employee for what he can accomplish in an hour of his life.

On October 1, 2024, my company will no longer have a custodial department. That's the date when I would have to start paying them $13 an hour. Sorry, but that's simply too much to pay someone to sweep the floor, clean the restrooms, etc, considering it will be far less expensive for me to contract that out to a third party cleaning company. This is an example of how a rise in the minimum wage will cost jobs.

Could I keep them and pay them more? Sure I could. But I would also have to raise my fees and prices in order to absorb the increase, and that will cost me customers. From a business perspective, customers are far more important than a custodial department...
Canon Shooter, isn't it interesting another enterprise's could serve as your costs and they could profit by doing so; I'm assuming they do expect to profit?

The third party you may be considering, do you believe their managers are superior to your enterprise's managers?
If your enterprise contracts-out for work to done, and those working behalf of your enterprise are paid less than the legal minimum or working "off the books" (which is evasion of tax and labor laws), ignorance of what contractor was doing may not sufficiently shield your enterprise or its manager from civil or criminal penalties.

"This is an example of how a rise in the minimum wage will cost jobs"? you're considering letting out a contract and no one will be doing the work? Respectfully, Supposn
g
 

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