MoneyMoneyMoney

PoliticalChic

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Oct 6, 2008
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Often well hidden behind politics, the real issue in governance and public policy, is money.

In simplest terms, it is capitalism vs communism, and there is no doubt which better.

From a novel by Vince Flynn:

“Abel had studied the economics of East versus West. He knew the numbers manufactured by the governments in East Germany and Russia to be false. As a general rule, he divided them in half in order to recalibrate for exaggeration and deception. The West, however, was a different matter. The evil capitalists had these things called corporations, and these corporations had a fiduciary responsibility to be honest with their shareholders. An amazing amount of data was public information.

Every time Abel ran the numbers he came away with the same conclusion. They were getting their asses handed to them by the West, and they were about to collapse under the weight of their lies and economic inefficiencies. The empirical economic signs were right there for anyone who opened their eyes. The data on its own should have been enough, but Abel saw something else that was equally alarming.”
“Consent To Kill,” Vince Flynn



2.Here’s where politics comes in: in order to get the vote of those who’d rather be given largesse than earn same, Leftist politicians (read ‘Democrats’) pretend they want to help the down-trodden, the less wealthy (there are no ‘poor’ in America) and claim to what to better the conditions of the lower economic quintiles (except that all the pols are in the upper quintiles).





3. Franklin Roosevelt had a visceral animosity toward businessmen, entrepreneurs, successful capitalists. And he had a way with words, in describing them. "unscrupulous money changers..." the greed and shortsightedness of bankers and businessmen," "..rulers of the exchange of mankind's goods have failed through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence" "we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit." "there must be an end to a conduct in banking and in business which too often has given to a sacred trust the likeness of callous and selfish wrongdoing."

Wow! What the heck was that about? He was besmirching his fellow Americans, many of whom were responsible for the progress of society.



4. And he was even warned that injury to business was injury to America.

John Maynard Keynes, in a letter published in the NYTimes, December 31, 1933, warned “ even wise and necessary Reform may, in some respects, impede and complicate Recovery. For it will upset the confidence of the business world and weaken their existing motives to action.” Even Keynes saw the danger in treating the nation’s capitalists as an enemy, as “the unscrupulous money changers,” as FDR called them in his first Inaugural.



5. Today’s birthday boy:

John Maynard Keynes, (born June 5, 1883, Cambridge, Cambridgeshire, England—died April 21, 1946, Firle, Sussex), English economist, journalist, and financier, best known for his economic theories (Keynesian economics) on the causes of prolonged unemployment.
Britannica.com
 
3. Franklin Roosevelt had a visceral animosity toward businessmen, entrepreneurs, successful capitalists. And he had a way with words, in describing them. "unscrupulous money changers..." the greed and shortsightedness of bankers and businessmen," "..rulers of the exchange of mankind's goods have failed through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence" "we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit." "there must be an end to a conduct in banking and in business which too often has given to a sacred trust the likeness of callous and selfish wrongdoing."

Wow! What the heck was that about? He was besmirching his fellow Americans, many of whom were responsible for the progress of society.

Are you naturally ignorant or just playing stupid when you fail to recognize how the stock market and bankers facilitated the fall of capitalism in 1929?
 
wow. . . is this thread seriously a tribute thread to technocrat Keynes?

The biggest destroyer of the American way of life since. . . oh, Wilson or FDR himself?

:heehee:

 
In 1925, Koch had entered into a partnership with Lewis Winkler, a former employee of Universal Oil Products (now UOP LLC). Winkler developed a cracking apparatus for heavy crude oil with ostensibly no patented difference in comparison to his former employer's intellectual property; thus, in 1929, UOP sued Winkler-Koch for patent infringement. Also that year, nearly three years before the patent case went to trial, Winkler-Koch signed contracts to build petroleum distillation plants in the Soviet Union, which did not recognize intellectual property rights.[12]

This extended litigation effectively put Winkler-Koch out of business in the U.S. for several years. "Unable to succeed at home, Koch found work in the Soviet Union".[13] Between 1929 and 1932 Winkler-Koch supported the Kremlin and "trained Bolshevik engineers[14] to help Stalin's regime set up fifteen modern oil refineries" in the Soviet Union during its first Five Year Plan.[15][16] "Over time, however, Stalin brutally purged several of Koch's Soviet colleagues. Koch was deeply affected by the experience, and regretted his collaboration."[13] The company also built installations in countries throughout Europe, the Middle East and Asia.[1] During the 21st century, when the political donations of Koch's descendants became a matter of controversy, Koch's work in Europe also entered public scrutiny. In 1934, Koch had partnered with William Rhodes Davis to build the Hamburg Oil Refinery, the third-largest oil refinery serving the Third Reich, a project which was personally approved by Adolf Hitler; contemporary critics claim this showed a direct tie between fascism and the modern conservative movement, notwithstanding Koch's much greater involvement in the Soviet Union.[15][17][18] In response, Koch President and COO David L. Robertson acknowledged that Winkler-Koch provided the cracking unit for the 1934 Hamburg refinery, but said that it was but one of many "iconic" American companies doing business in Germany at the time.[19] Robertson provided archival documents showing that from 1928 to 1934, Koch's company helped build 39 cracking units for heavy oil refineries, including ones located in England and France.[19]
 
In simplest terms, it is capitalism vs communism, and there is no doubt which better.
I'm a devout capitalist but even I recognize that there are situations where it is not the right answer. There is a reason that every military, even ours, is based on the communist model of central planning and top down hierarchy.
3. Franklin Roosevelt had a visceral animosity toward businessmen, entrepreneurs, successful capitalists. And he had a way with words, in describing them. "unscrupulous money changers..." the greed and shortsightedness of bankers and businessmen," "..rulers of the exchange of mankind's goods have failed through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence" "we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit." "there must be an end to a conduct in banking and in business which too often has given to a sacred trust the likeness of callous and selfish wrongdoing."

Wow! What the heck was that about? He was besmirching his fellow Americans, many of whom were responsible for the progress of society.

4. And he was even warned that injury to business was injury to America.
Wasn't it "the greed and short sightedness of bankers and businessmen" that led to the Great Depression, a serious injury to the US and the world?
 
6. Now, the Socialist Saint of the Church 0f Militant Secularism, Franklin Roosevelt, had reason to hate successful businessmen, and to love Stalin. It was a psychosis based on his own lack of acumen.

Franklin Roosevelt came from a very wealthy family, so one may puzzle at the vituperation he leveled at similar folks. Perhaps that very background is the reason, as with the politician George McGovern, he never learned how business worked, or how to earn money. His mother Sara reported: "Money was never discussed at home....All his books and toys were provided for him. We never subjected the boy to a lot of don'ts."
"BEFORE THE TRUMPET: Young Franklin Roosevelt, 1882-1905," by Geoffrey C. Ward, p.125-126



Then again...how could they teach him about finance, after all, his father, James, inherited his fortune...and almost lost it by way of poor investments. His mother's father, Warren Delano, made his money selling opium illegally to Chinese addicts. When he retired to legitimate business, he didn't do much better than Franklin's father. Delano went back to the Opium trade, which is why Sara spent early years in China.
"BEFORE THE TRUMPET: Young Franklin Roosevelt, 1882-1905," by Geoffrey C. Ward, p. 71.
 
In simplest terms, it is capitalism vs communism, and there is no doubt which better.
I'm a devout capitalist but even I recognize that there are situations where it is not the right answer. There is a reason that every military, even ours, is based on the communist model of central planning and top down hierarchy.
3. Franklin Roosevelt had a visceral animosity toward businessmen, entrepreneurs, successful capitalists. And he had a way with words, in describing them. "unscrupulous money changers..." the greed and shortsightedness of bankers and businessmen," "..rulers of the exchange of mankind's goods have failed through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence" "we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit." "there must be an end to a conduct in banking and in business which too often has given to a sacred trust the likeness of callous and selfish wrongdoing."

Wow! What the heck was that about? He was besmirching his fellow Americans, many of whom were responsible for the progress of society.

4. And he was even warned that injury to business was injury to America.
Wasn't it "the greed and short sightedness of bankers and businessmen" that led to the Great Depression, a serious injury to the US and the world?



"I'm a devout capitalist...."


....who votes for the socialist party.


Democrats lie about everything.
 
Franklin Roosevelt was president at a very bad time. a depression and a world war. I think he handled as well as he could have. And yes capitalism is better. that is why the Soviet union fell and USA didn't. China has made capitalist reforms or they would would have fallen like the USSR by now.
 
Franklin Roosevelt was president at a very bad time. a depression and a world war. I think he handled as well as he could have. And yes capitalism is better. that is why the Soviet union fell and USA didn't. China has made capitalist reforms or they would would have fallen like the USSR by now.


You couldn't be more wrong if your intention was to be more wrong.



It is an enormous error to give FDR credit for any improvement in the recession/depression.

His policies increased same, and made it last some 7 years longer than it should have.

The only way to read the effects of FDR's policies is that he untended to use the crisis to obviate the Constitution and give him the powers of his idol, Stalin.



Now, listen, I've listened to this Harry - now this thing has been tried for seven successive years, and we ' ve still got twelve million unemployed. I want to point out - you're all Just as much interested in Mr. Roosevelt as I am - before you launch this thing, I think you're opening yourselves to an attack that we' ve had seven years of deficits, seven years of increasing the thing, and we're just where we were seven years ago."

Morgenthau, 1939

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/_resources/images/morg/md0241.pdf

page 64







"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong … somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. … I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. … And an enormous debt to boot."

Morgenthau, Henry, Jr. (May 9, 1939). Henry Morgenthau Diary, Microfilm Roll #50 (PDF, 1.9 MB).

Henry Morgenthau Jr. - Wikipedia.







"FDR’s policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"

www.ff.org

FDR’s policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate - Frontiers of Freedom

by Meg Sullivan • UCLA Newsroom Two UCLA economists say they have figured out why the Great Depression dragged on for almost 15 years, and they blame a suspect previously thought to be beyond reproach: President Franklin D. Roosevelt. After scrutinizing Roosevelt's record for four...
www.ff.org
www.ff.org
 
Were Roosevelt and Stalin really friends or was it a alliance of common enemies?
 
6. Now, the Socialist Saint of the Church 0f Militant Secularism, Franklin Roosevelt, had reason to hate successful businessmen, and to love Stalin. It was a psychosis based on his own lack of acumen.

Franklin Roosevelt came from a very wealthy family, so one may puzzle at the vituperation he leveled at similar folks. Perhaps that very background is the reason, as with the politician George McGovern, he never learned how business worked, or how to earn money. His mother Sara reported: "Money was never discussed at home....All his books and toys were provided for him. We never subjected the boy to a lot of don'ts."
"BEFORE THE TRUMPET: Young Franklin Roosevelt, 1882-1905," by Geoffrey C. Ward, p.125-126



Then again...how could they teach him about finance, after all, his father, James, inherited his fortune...and almost lost it by way of poor investments. His mother's father, Warren Delano, made his money selling opium illegally to Chinese addicts. When he retired to legitimate business, he didn't do much better than Franklin's father. Delano went back to the Opium trade, which is why Sara spent early years in China.
"BEFORE THE TRUMPET: Young Franklin Roosevelt, 1882-1905," by Geoffrey C. Ward, p. 71.
Your link doesn't show the post you quoted. And don't forget all those other brave conservatards which help the USSR and Nazi Germany to develop their nations for a profit...
 
Were Roosevelt and Stalin really friends or was it a alliance of common enemies?

Roosevelt turned total control of US foreign policy over to Stalin.....so....what do you think?




In his tireless and unending efforts to placate, favor, win the approval of homicidal maniac Joseph Stalin, Franklin Roosevelt offered up the lives of 150,000 American soldiers in said endeavor.



Lend lease was a mistake in that it prioritized materials for Russia that were sorely needed by American troops.

Allowing Stalin to determine the location of a 'second front' over the objections of American generals, and of Winston Churchill, was a mistake.

But the worst blunder was bowing to Stalin's demands that Germany be pulverized, reduced to ashes, rather than be allowed to surrender.....the doctrine of 'unconditional surrender'....was the very worst.





To get an idea of the cost of the extended war...."....over one hundred thirty-five thousand American GIs died – a startling figure today – between D day[june 6, 1944] and V-E day,[May 8, 1945]...."
So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence

Get that?

135,000 brave American boys whose lives were offered up as a gift to Stalin....to make certain that communism survived.


Based on the ration of deaths to wounded, that would suggest almost an additional 200,000 wounded, just between Normandy and Germany's surrender.

Totally attributed to 'unconditional surrender.'
 
Were Roosevelt and Stalin really friends or was it a alliance of common enemies?

Roosevelt turned total control of US foreign policy over to Stalin.....so....what do you think?




In his tireless and unending efforts to placate, favor, win the approval of homicidal maniac Joseph Stalin, Franklin Roosevelt offered up the lives of 150,000 American soldiers in said endeavor.



Lend lease was a mistake in that it prioritized materials for Russia that were sorely needed by American troops.

Allowing Stalin to determine the location of a 'second front' over the objections of American generals, and of Winston Churchill, was a mistake.

But the worst blunder was bowing to Stalin's demands that Germany be pulverized, reduced to ashes, rather than be allowed to surrender.....the doctrine of 'unconditional surrender'....was the very worst.





To get an idea of the cost of the extended war...."....over one hundred thirty-five thousand American GIs died – a startling figure today – between D day[june 6, 1944] and V-E day,[May 8, 1945]...."
So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence

Get that?

135,000 brave American boys whose lives were offered up as a gift to Stalin....to make certain that communism survived.


Based on the ration of deaths to wounded, that would suggest almost an additional 200,000 wounded, just between Normandy and Germany's surrender.

Totally attributed to 'unconditional surrender.'
Did American commanders not allow the red Army to have Berlin because they knew German resistance would be strongest there? they did that to avid heavy American casualties. But what i really want to know is what do you think of the New Deal of the 1930s? Some good projects like rural eletrification came from it. Did it help the economy?
 
Were Roosevelt and Stalin really friends or was it a alliance of common enemies?

Roosevelt turned total control of US foreign policy over to Stalin.....so....what do you think?




In his tireless and unending efforts to placate, favor, win the approval of homicidal maniac Joseph Stalin, Franklin Roosevelt offered up the lives of 150,000 American soldiers in said endeavor.



Lend lease was a mistake in that it prioritized materials for Russia that were sorely needed by American troops.

Allowing Stalin to determine the location of a 'second front' over the objections of American generals, and of Winston Churchill, was a mistake.

But the worst blunder was bowing to Stalin's demands that Germany be pulverized, reduced to ashes, rather than be allowed to surrender.....the doctrine of 'unconditional surrender'....was the very worst.





To get an idea of the cost of the extended war...."....over one hundred thirty-five thousand American GIs died – a startling figure today – between D day[june 6, 1944] and V-E day,[May 8, 1945]...."
So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence

Get that?

135,000 brave American boys whose lives were offered up as a gift to Stalin....to make certain that communism survived.


Based on the ration of deaths to wounded, that would suggest almost an additional 200,000 wounded, just between Normandy and Germany's surrender.

Totally attributed to 'unconditional surrender.'
Did American commanders not allow the red Army to have Berlin because they knew German resistance would be strongest there? they did that to avid heavy American casualties. But what i really want to know is what do you think of the New Deal of the 1930s? Some good projects like rural eletrification came from it. Did it help the economy?


"Did American commanders not allow the red Army to have Berlin because they knew German resistance would be strongest there? they did that to avid heavy American casualties."



Absurd.


It was more of FDR's bending the knee and the neck to his lord and master, Stalin.

"At the time of his death, Patton had been relegated to a desk job, overseeing the collection of Army records in Bavaria. That he had been an outspoken critic of Stalin and a vocal proponent of liberating Berlin and the German people from certain communist aggression triggered his sudden removal from the battlefield. In the aftermath of war, the Western powers sought to sideline the mercurial Patton and his incendiary views.


In early May 1945, as the Allies shut down the Nazi war machine, Patton stood with his massive 3rd Army on the outskirts of Prague in a potential face off with the Red Army. He pleaded for General Eisenhower’s green light to advance and capture the city for the Allies, which also would have meant containment of the Russians. British Prime Minister Churchill also thought the move a crucial and beneficial one for post-war Europe and insisted upon it, but to no avail. Eisenhower denied Patton’s request, and the Russians took the region, which would pay dearly for years to come. Earlier that year, at the February conference in Yalta, President Roosevelt, with Churchill at his side, extended the hand of friendship to “Uncle Joe” Stalin and signed his Faustian pact. In so doing, the destiny of millions was reduced to mass starvation, blood revenge, and distant gulags. At the time, Patton understood the tragedy of this event and wrote, “We promised the Europeans freedom. It would be worse than dishonorable not to see that they have it. This might mean war with the Russians, but what of it?”

As with Prague, Patton’s request to secure Berlin was denied. Sadly, after Patton finally reached the ravaged city, he wrote his wife on July 21, 1945, ” for the first week after they took it (Berlin), all women who ran were shot and those who did not were raped. I could have taken it (instead of the Soviets) had I been allowed.”

In the end, yes Patton was a genius commander such as are many today within the purged ranks of military leadership but never forget, Roosevelt was ultimately the string puller and hence, Russia got its way and the libtards destroyed the face of the planet for the next 50 years until the dissolution of the Soviet machine. http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/robert-orlando/the-foresight-of-patton/
 
"I'm a devout capitalist...."

....who votes for the socialist party.

Democrats lie about everything.
I don't believe I've ever voted for anyone who espoused socialism. So, unless you are the liar, who have I voted for that is a Socialist and what policies of theirs were those of socialism?
 
"I'm a devout capitalist...."

....who votes for the socialist party.

Democrats lie about everything.
I don't believe I've ever voted for anyone who espoused socialism. So, unless you are the liar, who have I voted for that is a Socialist and what policies of theirs were those of socialism?


"I don't believe I've ever voted for anyone who espoused socialism."


See what I mean....Democrats lie about everything.
 

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