Most Americans do not want to arm Israel

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Those jobs just don't blow away in the wind because we aren't at war or funding one... we are behind in stock piling our own weapons for our defense...
We also have several space programs alive and well where these people can find work...
No... that argument is like the one liberals used to use when they were anti war... they would say the troops being deployed costs the USA too much money... ignoring the fact that stateside troops still need to be paid and trained....
We don't have to actively be at war to keep people employed... that's a false argument...

Actually, it is not true what you claim. At the end of the Cold war and the resulting decreased threat from the former USSR, naval submarine shipbuilding in the US dried up. The biggest issue for shipyards now is finding skilled tradesmen to build the submarines because they have gotten too old and retired or went to work in other more lucrative industries. I have seen numerous advertisements by shipyards looking for new people with the required skills to work in a newly rebounded industry with the current plan to build nuclear submarines for Australia and the UK in American shipyards. Do you know how many shipyards currently build commercial shipping in the US? Take a guess! You will be surprised at how low that number is. Why? They have no work. Ships are built more economically in other countries, such as South Korea, Taiwan and Japan, as well as China.

The only stockpiles that are being replaced was Cold War era ammunition that was not reliable because of its age. Replacing weapons such as the Javelin are simply limited by the rate at which the factories can provide replacements. That isn't easily fixed by spending more money. It is just simply not physically possible to produce them at the rate they were being consumed.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Except most of our elected representatives are just as, if not more clueless than most of those voting for them.
A major reason our nation and the world is in the mess it is.

After a couple of decades involved local and state politics, I'm speaking from first hand experience. Part of the challenge is that the demands of campaigning for office; time, energy, costs, public abuse, etc. means it takes a certain personality type to stick with it, especially beyond the first try/effort.

Nailed it! It's like Ronald Reagan's quote about liberals believing in things that just aren't true. It's like the people who believe the earth is flat, we never went into space, and never landed on the moon. They can fake being a normal, well-adjusted person on the outside, but if they were to ever meet a zombie, they would merely pass them by. No brains.

 

[surada]

"They have nuclear weapons and the people they are fighting in Palestine are armed with rocks and pistols. Hezbollah also appears to be a paper Tiger and plenty of people in Israel no longer want American aid. They want to be able to be more independent." from A. Jackson.

IMVO In My Vaunted Opinion----the above remark marks the author as
a product of Medieval Antisemtism of the "christ-kller" school which was
based on the "MAGICAL EVIL OF THE JEWS" and the pathetic victims model---the humble, albeit noble, christians. I grew up with it. -----short explanation
of the terms. "they have nuclear weapons" THE MAGIC EVIL POWER vs
"rocks and pistols" --pathetic but noble victims,------then the "so let them
go to hell, to gas chambers, to bombardment, to rape, mutilation, pillage
and murder rampages by their justly enraged "victims" like "hezbollah
the (poor pathetic victim) paper tiger----BESIDES---THEY DON'T WANT US
(and our noble gospels) I grew up with it in the traditional christian town of
my childhood and later from the muslims from ALL OVER the world with
whom I worked as an adult. Solomon said There is nothing new under the son. The book called ECCLESIASTES ---is the most sublime of the biblical
writings

What magical evil power? The Israelis just have weapons and US foreign aid.

 

[Stryder50]

25 years of funding and fighting wars with billions of wasted dollars that could have gone to the American people... I know I'm sick of it and I don't understand why everyone isn't sick of it...
Just think what that money could have done for our infrastructure or a better retirement program that isn't broken...
I say enough... tell Ukraine no and tell Israel no... let them fight their own battles....

We spend more on Interest on our Debt than on Defense/wars.
We spend over three times as much on social=Medicare + Social Security.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Some infrastructure is also defense related, such as the Interstate Hiways systems started back in the 1950-60s, modeled after the German Autobahn of the 1930s.

It was "war" spending during WWII that advanced air travel of passengers and cargo, internally and internationally to an advanced state within half a dozen years that would have taken a few decades had there been global peace (and USA not embroiled in other's wars) during that time.

Most of our modern tech of the past 5-6 decades has been spinoff from our Space Programs, which started as Defense related and out of that budget.

 

[Rambunctious]

We spend more on Interest on our Debt than on Defense/wars.
We spend over three times as much on social=Medicare + Social Security.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Some infrastructure is also defense related, such as the Interstate Hiways systems started back in the 1950-60s, modeled after the German Autobahn of the 1930s.

It was "war" spending during WWII that advanced air travel of passengers and cargo, internally and internationally to an advanced state within half a dozen years that would have taken a few decades had there been global peace (and USA not embroiled in other's wars) during that time.

Most of our modern tech of the past 5-6 decades has been spinoff from our Space Programs, which started as Defense related and out of that budget.

Well wait a second... maybe if we weren't spending the nations treasury on warfare we would be in better shape debt wise....
We need strong leadership that doesn't give Iran money and sanction relief so they could wage war on Israel...
Iran is a terrorist state... Trump kept them broke... Biden made them rich again...
And Putin never made a move towards Ukraine while Trump was in office... so don't forget how we got here...

 

[Rambunctious]

Actually, it is not true what you claim. At the end of the Cold war and the resulting decreased threat from the former USSR, naval submarine shipbuilding in the US dried up. The biggest issue for shipyards now is finding skilled tradesmen to build the submarines because they have gotten too old and retired or went to work in other more lucrative industries. I have seen numerous advertisements by shipyards looking for new people with the required skills to work in a newly rebounded industry with the current plan to build nuclear submarines for Australia and the UK in American shipyards. Do you know how many shipyards currently build commercial shipping in the US? Take a guess! You will be surprised at how low that number is. Why? They have no work. Ships are built more economically in other countries, such as South Korea, Taiwan and Japan, as well as China.

The only stockpiles that are being replaced was Cold War era ammunition that was not reliable because of its age. Replacing weapons such as the Javelin are simply limited by the rate at which the factories can provide replacements. That isn't easily fixed by spending more money. It is just simply not physically possible to produce them at the rate they were being consumed.

We have given 58 billion dollars to Ukraine since this latest invasion in 2022... from 2014 till 2017 we gave them 53 billion and we still have allocated 113 billion for them that we haven't spent yet... and I am not certain these numbers include ammunition.... missiles... drones... trucks and tanks....
People are dying... innocent civilians are dying... you don't try and extend a tragedy like that you do whatever you have to to not let it start and to end it peacefully....
And you made my argument for me... we have plenty of jobs in weapons manufacturing and ship building... you don't need to go to war or fund one for jobs... that's kind of inhuman if you ask me...

 

[JWBooth]

Most Americans do not want to arm Israel​

Since when has that ever mattered?

 

[lafayette]

Well wait a second... maybe if we weren't spending the nations treasury on warfare we would be in better shape debt wise....
We need strong leadership that doesn't give Iran money and sanction relief so they could wage war on Israel...
Iran is a terrorist state... Trump kept them broke... Biden made them rich again...
And Putin never made a move towards Ukraine while Trump was in office... so don't forget how we got here...

Then why are so many righties anti-Ukraine.

 

[Rambunctious]

Then why are so many righties anti-Ukraine.

I'm not anti Ukraine... I'm pro American and this nation is broke... we have to borrow every dollar we spend.... The EU should be funding Ukraine not the USA....

 

[lafayette]

I'm not anti Ukraine... I'm pro American and this nation is broke... we have to borrow every dollar we spend.... The EU should be funding Ukraine not the USA....

Why are so many righties anti Ukraine and pro Israel in spending?

 

[Rambunctious]

Why are so many righties anti Ukraine and pro Israel in spending?

I don't think not wanting to give a nation money and weapons is anti that nation.... whether its Ukraine or Israel...
Israel pays us for a lot of military assistance we provide to them however there is no other nation on earth that will come to Israel's aide but us.... so you really can't compare the two...

 

[irosie91]

What magical evil power? The Israelis just have weapons and US foreign aid.

right---and the muslims just have weapons and endless oil wealth and endless numbers of people to use as cannon fodder

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

We have given 58 billion dollars to Ukraine since this latest invasion in 2022... from 2014 till 2017 we gave them 53 billion and we still have allocated 113 billion for them that we haven't spent yet... and I am not certain these numbers include ammunition.... missiles... drones... trucks and tanks....
People are dying... innocent civilians are dying... you don't try and extend a tragedy like that you do whatever you have to to not let it start and to end it peacefully....
And you made my argument for me... we have plenty of jobs in weapons manufacturing and ship building... you don't need to go to war or fund one for jobs... that's kind of inhuman if you ask me...

Apparently, you need lessons in logic. We have a need for more qualified people in those jobs available as they have either retired, changed careers, or simply died. We do not have to have a war to keep these people busy, but that is what the Democrats have done to exactly no one. As soon as they can see fit, they cancel or extend acquisition of new weapons so long that by the time they are in use by the military, the person implementing the program has probably retired.

Very few of the weapons and equipment were being used by our military. The M-1A2 tanks we sent were from a surplus stock of tanks. We have hundreds of M1A1 tanks sitting in a field in Arizona rusting away because they are analog systems and obsolete. We didn't give them the older tanks because they require far too much technical maintenance for Ukraine to repair easily. Did you know the Marine Corps does not use tanks anymore? Thay gave up all of their tanks to the Army and the tankers were reassigned to new jobs or allowed to transfer from the Marines to the Army.

We have them artillery shells that has been sitting around since the Gulf War. Their missiles were defensive in nature, not offensive. Biden's slow walking their supplies have hurt them immeasurably.

I agree we need to end it soon, but Russia determines when they think they have suffered enough to quit, like they did, and we did in Afghanistan. That is why Ukraine's invasion was a brilliant tactic. If the citizens of Kursk have to go to bed at night wondering if a Ukrainian missile will come crashing through their roof, that might implore Putin to retreat from Ukraine and negotiate a peace. Until you bloody their nose, that will not happen.

 

[lafayette]

www.cnn.com › 2024/08/29 › politicsMajority of Americans favor US military aid to Israel until ...​

Aug 29, 2024 · Nearly 11 months into Israel’s military campaign in Gaza, 60% of Americans want the United States to keep up its military support for Israe

 

[Stryder50]

Well wait a second... maybe if we weren't spending the nations treasury on warfare we would be in better shape debt wise....
We need strong leadership that doesn't give Iran money and sanction relief so they could wage war on Israel...
Iran is a terrorist state... Trump kept them broke... Biden made them rich again...
And Putin never made a move towards Ukraine while Trump was in office... so don't forget how we got here...

The better solution is for "the State" to spend less, provide less, tax less, and allow more market and free enterprise to provide more jobs and grow the economy. Also find ways to provide "workfare" rather than "welfare".

If you looked at and understood the Debt Clock link I provided, especially look over the 'time machine' of past tallies, you'd see that proportionally Defense (warfare) spending has been declining compared to social services (bread and circuses) which are the ones rising and helping to drive up Deficit=Debt.

A reminder that the Nation's Defense is mandated by the Constitution, whereas Debt and Social Services are not. There are times when one needs to use the sword, not just keep sharpening it. History of the past century is filled with examples were early and correct use of small military force could have prevented later and larger problems.

I'll agree we could use leadership strong enough to stand up to and oppose tyranny and aggression from other nations. It would also help to acknowledge that there is Evil in the world and many nations are operating on it's behalf.

In the case of Israel, it is the frontline and bares the brunt of Islamic Jihad's attacks against the West. The USA began to provide military aid* to Israel when the USSR took interest in and provided weapons to the enemies of Israel. A couple stipendiaries were that many of our weapons systems got actual live combat, real world testing and Israel was able to provide us with technology insights of Soviet weapons they captured.

Another great service Israel provided was the destruction of Iraq's nuclear weapons program, June 1981;

Operation Opera - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

* = JFK's Administration is the one that lifted the earlier Truman and Eisenhower policies prohibiting USA military aid to Israel.

 

[lafayette]

We are not ish in libertarian. Never going to happen in a modern world.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

So most Americans do not support arming Israel and interestingly enough 30% of Trump supporters do not support arming Israel.

I didn't click on the links, what's the corresponding percentage from non-trump supporters?

 

[Stryder50]

I don't think not wanting to give a nation money and weapons is anti that nation.... whether its Ukraine or Israel...
Israel pays us for a lot of military assistance we provide to them however there is no other nation on earth that will come to Israel's aide but us.... so you really can't compare the two...

It is "anti that nation" when that nation's majority of weapons are made in the USA and need our spare parts and ammo to function.
There is hardly any other nation in the West that will come to Israel's or any other nation's aid.
Most of the former "great" nations of the West are even more bankrupt than the USA.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

The USA wouldn't be this "deep in" had we done things differently during the past few decades.
Waiting to react, rather than pro-act, and then only doing the minimum, the band-aid the solution, is one way to "rinse and repeat" later on.

 

[Stryder50]

right---and the muslims just have weapons and endless oil wealth and endless numbers of people to use as cannon fodder

They also think they have Allah on their side and are fulfilling "His" mandate to them;
"Convert and/or dominate the World, all of humankind."

 

[lafayette]

I didn't click on the links, what's the corresponding percentage from non-trump supporters?

60% of Americans want the US to keep arming Israel.