New Australian documentary just released. Very graphic don't watch if you are queasy.

[montelatici]

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

There have been individuals who don't think as you do who have also visited and have seen things differently. One case in mind is a Pakistani Muslim whose idea had changed once he visited Israel. There have been others like him.

A Muslim in a Jewish Land

About the author.

"Dr. Syed was strongly affiliated with Zionism and openly promoted himself as a Muslim Zionist. His close friend was the eminent Israeli journalist Ari Busse. Ari's strong pro zionist views were reflected in Dr. Syed's writings. Ari Busse now runs Dr Syeds Muslim World Today and Paktoday.com."

Tashbih Sayyed - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

He was on the board of "Jihad Watch" a Zionist Electronic Intifafda

Good source Hoss.

 

[P F Tinmore]

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

 

[Hossfly]

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

There have been individuals who don't think as you do who have also visited and have seen things differently. One case in mind is a Pakistani Muslim whose idea had changed once he visited Israel. There have been others like him.

A Muslim in a Jewish Land

About the author.

"Dr. Syed was strongly affiliated with Zionism and openly promoted himself as a Muslim Zionist. His close friend was the eminent Israeli journalist Ari Busse. Ari's strong pro zionist views were reflected in Dr. Syed's writings. Ari Busse now runs Dr Syeds Muslim World Today and Paktoday.com."

Tashbih Sayyed - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

He was on the board of "Jihad Watch" a Zionist Electronic Intifafda

Good source Hoss.

Of course he is a good source because he was not an anti-Israel poster like you are, Mr. S. I think it kills Muslims like Mr. S. when another Muslim stands up for Israel. There have been others who have visited Israel and think the same as Dr. Syed, but Mr. S. doesn't want to hear about that. The bottom line is that Mr. S. wants to see his Muslim brethren take over Israel and rule it just like they are doing in the other Midfdle East countries. He thinks he is fooling everyone here.

 

[theliq]

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

There have been individuals who don't think as you do who have also visited and have seen things differently. One case in mind is a Pakistani Muslim whose idea had changed once he visited Israel. There have been others like him.

A Muslim in a Jewish Land

1 out of 500 Million plus, is NO BIG SHAKES Hoss........."One Swallow does not make a Summer" your loyal friend and educator...... steve,ever living,ever faithful,ever sure....Viva Palestine,Viva Israel.

 

[montelatici]

The interesting thing is that Americans don't even see the same versions of movies that the rest of the world sees. Any mildly anti-zionist movies or parts of movies are just not marketed or the Zionist leaning Hollywood financiers force the removal of those parts of movies. It is not surprising that most Americans have a completely different view of the conflict.

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

There have been individuals who don't think as you do who have also visited and have seen things differently. One case in mind is a Pakistani Muslim whose idea had changed once he visited Israel. There have been others like him.

A Muslim in a Jewish Land

About the author.

"Dr. Syed was strongly affiliated with Zionism and openly promoted himself as a Muslim Zionist. His close friend was the eminent Israeli journalist Ari Busse. Ari's strong pro zionist views were reflected in Dr. Syed's writings. Ari Busse now runs Dr Syeds Muslim World Today and Paktoday.com."

Tashbih Sayyed - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

He was on the board of "Jihad Watch" a Zionist Electronic Intifafda

Good source Hoss.

Of course he is a good source because he was not an anti-Israel poster like you are, Mr. S. I think it kills Muslims like Mr. S. when another Muslim stands up for Israel. There have been others who have visited Israel and think the same as Dr. Syed, but Mr. S. doesn't want to hear about that. The bottom line is that Mr. S. wants to see his Muslim brethren take over Israel and rule it just like they are doing in the other Midfdle East countries. He thinks he is fooling everyone here.

You really don't get it, do you. I have no Muslim brethren. I am a Christian and an American that believes in fairness. You are a crazy Zionist that believes that the Christians and Muslims of Palestine deserved to be evicted from their homes by European colonists and support the continued occupation, oppression and murder of these same people.
I felt the same about the non-whites in South Africa when they were being oppressed by the whites.

As I have always said, now that a two-state solution is no longer possible, I support the creation of a secular, democratic state where all the people of Palestine are equal under the law. If you can't get that through your thick racist skull, up your's.

 

[theliq]

Thought for a moment it was our Alison Weir, the historian. Thanks for sharing; a brave and principled woman (cue the usual cries of "ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDIST!" from some quarters ) I know how she feels; ours was a similar journey to discover the reality behind the decades old web of Zionist Hasbara that had duped us in the West, and continues to dupe many even now.

Aren't you leaving something out, such as Alison Weir writing articles for David Duke's website? It seems that the NeoNazis and the Leftists are quite a team today.

Stop The ISM

She has NO reason to speak anything but the truth Hoss.........she has NO AXE to grind......She is merely stating the facts and the Zionist Terrorists deception to the US and the rest of us...........Hoss,Stop reacting in this way,when someone speaks the truth and facts,about Israeli behaviour......She speaks what the world knows clearly and with revulsion..........Israelis/Zionists are NOT CLEAN SKINS......the have a motive of Hate and Destruction of the Palestinians.........Stop telling me that Jews are somehow Prefect.......I have never seen you criticize the Banality of Israeli/Zionist Anger,Aggression and Murderous intent EVER..........There is a Law,The Law of Truth.......get with the programme and Stop your uneducated prose on this matter...You are an Intelligent Man...Stop behaving like someone with NO EDUCATION.........steve

 

[Hossfly]

Thought for a moment it was our Alison Weir, the historian. Thanks for sharing; a brave and principled woman (cue the usual cries of "ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDIST!" from some quarters ) I know how she feels; ours was a similar journey to discover the reality behind the decades old web of Zionist Hasbara that had duped us in the West, and continues to dupe many even now.

Aren't you leaving something out, such as Alison Weir writing articles for David Duke's website? It seems that the NeoNazis and the Leftists are quite a team today.

Stop The ISM

She has NO reason to speak anything but the truth Hoss.........she has NO AXE to grind......She is merely stating the facts and the Zionist Terrorists deception to the US and the rest of us...........Hoss,Stop reacting in this way,when someone speaks the truth and facts,about Israeli behaviour......She speaks what the world knows clearly and with revulsion..........Israelis/Zionists are NOT CLEAN SKINS......the have a motive of Hate and Destruction of the Palestinians.........Stop telling me that Jews are somehow Prefect.......I have never seen you criticize the Banality of Israeli/Zionist Anger,Aggression and Murderous intent EVER..........There is a Law,The Law of Truth.......get with the programme and Stop your uneducated prose on this matter...You are an Intelligent Man...Stop behaving like someone with NO EDUCATION.........steve

Baldedash, Steve. There are a bunch of anti-Semites on here who actually care nothing about the Arabs and are using them to show their own hatred against the Jews every days. We even have Arabs posting here although they wouldn't tell you that they are Arabs. I thought you were smarter than that, Steve. It looks like I was wrong about you.

 

[Hossfly]

The interesting thing is that Americans don't even see the same versions of movies that the rest of the world sees. Any mildly anti-zionist movies or parts of movies are just not marketed or the Zionist leaning Hollywood financiers force the removal of those parts of movies. It is not surprising that most Americans have a completely different view of the conflict.

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

There have been individuals who don't think as you do who have also visited and have seen things differently. One case in mind is a Pakistani Muslim whose idea had changed once he visited Israel. There have been others like him.

A Muslim in a Jewish Land

About the author.

"Dr. Syed was strongly affiliated with Zionism and openly promoted himself as a Muslim Zionist. His close friend was the eminent Israeli journalist Ari Busse. Ari's strong pro zionist views were reflected in Dr. Syed's writings. Ari Busse now runs Dr Syeds Muslim World Today and Paktoday.com."

Tashbih Sayyed - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

He was on the board of "Jihad Watch" a Zionist Electronic Intifafda

Good source Hoss.

Of course he is a good source because he was not an anti-Israel poster like you are, Mr. S. I think it kills Muslims like Mr. S. when another Muslim stands up for Israel. There have been others who have visited Israel and think the same as Dr. Syed, but Mr. S. doesn't want to hear about that. The bottom line is that Mr. S. wants to see his Muslim brethren take over Israel and rule it just like they are doing in the other Midfdle East countries. He thinks he is fooling everyone here.

You really don't get it, do you. I have no Muslim brethren. I am a Christian and an American that believes in fairness. You are a crazy Zionist that believes that the Christians and Muslims of Palestine deserved to be evicted from their homes by European colonists and support the continued occupation, oppression and murder of these same people.
I felt the same about the non-whites in South Africa when they were being oppressed by the whites.

As I have always said, now that a two-state solution is no longer possible, I support the creation of a secular, democratic state where all the people of Palestine are equal under the law. If you can't get that through your thick racist skull, up your's.

With Mr. S. posting night and day every day like a rabid dog, I wonder what part of the Middle East his roots come from -- maybe Egypt. You can tell me you are anything you like to. I, and I am sure many of the readers, will not believe you the way your carry on. Keep on trying to fool everyone. It is very entertaining especially the part where you say you support a secular government for everyone. A little taqiyya goes a long way, especially when you know that if everyone was included, the Muslims would overwhelm everyone eventually and those who are non Muslims can become the dhimmis.

Today at 8:07 PM#185

 

[Hossfly]

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

There have been individuals who don't think as you do who have also visited and have seen things differently. One case in mind is a Pakistani Muslim whose idea had changed once he visited Israel. There have been others like him.

A Muslim in a Jewish Land

1 out of 500 Million plus, is NO BIG SHAKES Hoss........."One Swallow does not make a Summer" your loyal friend and educator...... steve,ever living,ever faithful,ever sure....Viva Palestine,Viva Israel.

You are forgetting those Muslims who are for Israel. Why not sign up on this and be their friend, Steve? You can do it if you try.

Muslims Who Love Jews and Support Israel Facebook

 

[theliq]

Thought for a moment it was our Alison Weir, the historian. Thanks for sharing; a brave and principled woman (cue the usual cries of "ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDIST!" from some quarters ) I know how she feels; ours was a similar journey to discover the reality behind the decades old web of Zionist Hasbara that had duped us in the West, and continues to dupe many even now.

Aren't you leaving something out, such as Alison Weir writing articles for David Duke's website? It seems that the NeoNazis and the Leftists are quite a team today.

Stop The ISM

She has NO reason to speak anything but the truth Hoss.........she has NO AXE to grind......She is merely stating the facts and the Zionist Terrorists deception to the US and the rest of us...........Hoss,Stop reacting in this way,when someone speaks the truth and facts,about Israeli behaviour......She speaks what the world knows clearly and with revulsion..........Israelis/Zionists are NOT CLEAN SKINS......the have a motive of Hate and Destruction of the Palestinians.........Stop telling me that Jews are somehow Prefect.......I have never seen you criticize the Banality of Israeli/Zionist Anger,Aggression and Murderous intent EVER..........There is a Law,The Law of Truth.......get with the programme and Stop your uneducated prose on this matter...You are an Intelligent Man...Stop behaving like someone with NO EDUCATION.........steve

Baldedash, Steve. There are a bunch of anti-Semites on here who actually care nothing about the Arabs and are using them to show their own hatred against the Jews every days. We even have Arabs posting here although they wouldn't tell you that they are Arabs. I thought you were smarter than that, Steve. It looks like I was wrong about you.

Thanks,but I know on both sides do this,but most identify which side they bat for......I try to be even handed as much as possible........I know your passion on the subject but I feel alone when wanting a peaceful solution for both sides.....most are tied up in self interest.......to a greater or lesser degree........

I never confessed to being smart at all......that WAS YOUR OPINION Hoss,I rarely disappoint Hoss,and I doubt if you are wrong most of the time about me,LOL.

Keep Well but Even Handed Hoss.............steve......as for Muslims for Israel,they would be only a drop in a bucket.

 

[sealybobo]

sealybobo, et al,

This is a question on a subject with no definitive answers. Inherently evil: What are the prospects?

A 2002 study found that a particular variation of a gene predicted antisocial behavior in men who were mistreated as children. The gene controls whether we produce an enzyme called monoamine oxidase A (MAOA), which at low levels has been linked to aggression in mice. The researchers found that boys who were neglected and who possessed a variation of the gene that produced low levels of MAOA were more likely to develop antisocial personality disorder, commit crimes and grow up to have a violent disposition. But those living in a similar environment who produced more of the enzyme rarely developed these problems. (Scientific American)​

sealybobo, et al,

This is a trick question.

Is that how you feel about African american culture? Are they just violent by nature or are they a product of their environment?

Do Muslim americans want to kill non Muslim americans and if so what should we do about Muslims in america?

I really want to know your answers please.

(COMMENT)

This question paints these groups in broad brush strokes. Neither group is 100% violent.

However the insinuation of the "product of their environment" defense is a mitigating factor; and not a cause in itself. Not every Muslim is a terrorist. Not every African American is violent.

This is a dangerous question. This is an emotional question that will ignite misunderstanding.

We should avoid it.

Most Respectfully,
R

Its why I asked. The people who think all Muslims want to kill non Muslims and who think they are inherently evil probably think the same thing about African americans. I also wanted to point out that Muslims are violent towards us at least in part because of how we treat them. I'm not making excuses for either just trying to understand why.

And people who say they are just evil are wrong.

Not saying we're to blame. At least not completely.

(COMMENT)

There are so many things that we simply do not know.

• Monoamine oxidase A gene (MAOA) predicts behavioral aggression following provocation

Monoamine oxidase A gene (MAOA) has earned the nickname “warrior gene” because it has been linked to aggression in observational and survey-based studies. However, no controlled experimental studies have tested whether the warrior gene actually drives behavioral manifestations of these tendencies. We report an experiment, synthesizing work in psychology and behavioral economics, which demonstrates that aggression occurs with greater intensity and frequency as provocation is experimentally manipulated upwards, especially among low activity MAOA (MAOA-L) subjects. In this study, subjects paid to punish those they believed had taken money from them by administering varying amounts of unpleasantly hot (spicy) sauce to their opponent. There is some evidence of a main effect for genotype and some evidence for a gene by environment interaction, such that MAOA is less associated with the occurrence of aggression in a low provocation condition, but significantly predicts such behavior in a high provocation situation. This new evidence for genetic influences on aggression and punishment behavior complicates characterizations of humans as “altruistic” punishers and supports theories of cooperation that propose mixed strategies in the population. It also suggests important implications for the role of individual variance in genetic factors contributing to everyday behaviors and decisions. (Proceedings of the National Academy of Science of the United States)
​

We don't always know or understand the "provocation" factors that lead to aggressive behaviors. The MAOA Gene Expression is also known to enhance certain characteristics more commonly known as the “Machiavellian genotype." But to this point, what we can say is that there is insufficient evidence to say for sure that certain psychopathic behaviors are a product of genetic predisposition. And this precludes us from suggesting that Muslims have clusters of humans with abnormal psychopathic behaviors related to genetic causes.

However, we have noticed that psychopathic behaviors do cluster. Psychiatrists call Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) Cluster B disorders. Cluster B personality types DON”T change. Unlike other forms of mental illness such as depression and anxiety, talk therapy and medication do not work for Cluster B types.

Most Respectfully,
R

Thanks. This also reminds me of mob mentality. People who you may never imagine could be violent become violent when they are in a mob.

Also remember that last war movie that brad Pitt was in? The one kid who never even shot a gun ended up becoming a killer.

Or a normal man goes to war and ends up raping a Vietnamese woman.

Or the movie about Abu grave where the soldier was appauled how the prisoners were being treated and by the end of the movie he became one of the abusers.

I guess until we are in their shoes its hard to say what we would do.

 

[skye]

Australians hate radical Muslims

do not post a thread saying Ausralians appove shit like this OP

Australians hate bloody jihadist Islamists!

 

[Hossfly]

Thought for a moment it was our Alison Weir, the historian. Thanks for sharing; a brave and principled woman (cue the usual cries of "ISLAMONAZI PROPAGANDIST!" from some quarters ) I know how she feels; ours was a similar journey to discover the reality behind the decades old web of Zionist Hasbara that had duped us in the West, and continues to dupe many even now.

Aren't you leaving something out, such as Alison Weir writing articles for David Duke's website? It seems that the NeoNazis and the Leftists are quite a team today.

Stop The ISM

She has NO reason to speak anything but the truth Hoss.........she has NO AXE to grind......She is merely stating the facts and the Zionist Terrorists deception to the US and the rest of us...........Hoss,Stop reacting in this way,when someone speaks the truth and facts,about Israeli behaviour......She speaks what the world knows clearly and with revulsion..........Israelis/Zionists are NOT CLEAN SKINS......the have a motive of Hate and Destruction of the Palestinians.........Stop telling me that Jews are somehow Prefect.......I have never seen you criticize the Banality of Israeli/Zionist Anger,Aggression and Murderous intent EVER..........There is a Law,The Law of Truth.......get with the programme and Stop your uneducated prose on this matter...You are an Intelligent Man...Stop behaving like someone with NO EDUCATION.........steve

Baldedash, Steve. There are a bunch of anti-Semites on here who actually care nothing about the Arabs and are using them to show their own hatred against the Jews every days. We even have Arabs posting here although they wouldn't tell you that they are Arabs. I thought you were smarter than that, Steve. It looks like I was wrong about you.

Thanks,but I know on both sides do this,but most identify which side they bat for......I try to be even handed as much as possible........I know your passion on the subject but I feel alone when wanting a peaceful solution for both sides.....most are tied up in self interest.......to a greater or lesser degree........

I never confessed to being smart at all......that WAS YOUR OPINION Hoss,I rarely disappoint Hoss,and I doubt if you are wrong most of the time about me,LOL.

Keep Well but Even Handed Hoss.............steve......as for Muslims for Israel,they would be only a drop in a bucket.

That's OK, Steve. If I gave you a thousand Muslim groups who said they were for Israel, you would still say they are wrong or it's a drop in the bucket. Long ago my mind was made up that you weren't evenhanded yourself especially since you never were interested in what was going on in the rest of the Middle East. Like some of the other posters it is all about Israel and Palestine for you, no matter how many people are being murdered elsewhere..

 

[SAYIT]

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

There have been individuals who don't think as you do who have also visited and have seen things differently. One case in mind is a Pakistani Muslim whose idea had changed once he visited Israel. There have been others like him.

A Muslim in a Jewish Land

There are 1500 Syrians who tell a far different story than Weir or Thomas including one who received a titanium jaw replacement:

BBC News - Israeli hospital rebuilds injured Syrian man s face

 

[Roudy]

Let's see your reliable and neutral source which confirms that ISIS and Hizbollah are in the Golan (and not fighting). Why do you bullshit so much. It's a constant stream of crap from you.

They are always the victims even when they are the victimizers.

Yeah well there's no denying that Israel knows how to take care of business when it comes to defending herself against Arab Muslim savages, Islamic or not. Whinybohoo.

They create anti semitism with their behavior both in the Arab and non Arab world.

And where did all the anti semitism come from before the state of Israel was created? The same place that it comes from today. Mostly religious based, and some sociological.

Yup, mostly from the Christian Religious Right, Phalangists, Fascists, Nazis (both neo- and old school), Zionists.

wrong answer. I asked where the anti semtism from before the atate of Israel? What excuse did pigs like you use to target Jews when there wasn't an Israel.

 

[Roudy]

They are always the victims even when they are the victimizers.

Yeah well there's no denying that Israel knows how to take care of business when it comes to defending herself against Arab Muslim savages, Islamic or not. Whinybohoo.

They create anti semitism with their behavior both in the Arab and non Arab world.

And where did all the anti semitism come from before the state of Israel was created? The same place that it comes from today. Mostly religious based, and some sociological.

I'm not religious at all and I can tell you if or when I don't like Jews its because of their behavior not because of their religion. When they whine. When they are hypocritical or cheap or stubborn or opinionated etc. My dislike of Jewish culture or people is from observing them or after talking to them. I don't hate them I just maybe don't like them.

I don't think I'm saying this right because I don't dislike Jews but they can be annoying and act jewy. Lol

This post is incredibly retarded. You are a bigot.

Yup, like I said, I've yet to meet an "anti zionist" who isn't a flaming antisemite.

 

[Roudy]

Maybe you should ask the Hasbara to give you a day off. I am an American, I don't work for Muslims or Jews, Unlike you.

Ya right.

But from your avatar it's clear you need to be locked up in an insane asylum.

 

[Roudy]

Maybe you should ask the Hasbara to give you a day off. I am an American, I don't work for Muslims or Jews, Unlike you.

No shit! I'm Greek american and I don't give 2 shits about Greece. African americans don't care about Africa. German americans didn't side with hitler and Japanese americans didn't side with Japan during ww2.

But Jews seem more loyal to Israel then america.

I like Jews but they do act very jewy.

Hoss is loyal to Israel, the brain washing was successful. Couldn't give a rat's ass about America if Israel's interests are threatened.

My God you're so full of shit. Hoss served in the U.S army. Did you?

Fuck no my life is too valuable to die for israel or america if its for oil or so Pepsi can feel safe selling their products in the middle east.

I would have enlisted for ww2 or 9 11 but I'm glad I didn't enlist after 9 11 because bush sent our boys to die in Iraq for some bullshit.

Yes but you would die for those 72 virgin donkeys if asked to.

 

[Hossfly]

Maybe you should ask the Hasbara to give you a day off. I am an American, I don't work for Muslims or Jews, Unlike you.

Ya right.

But from your avatar it's clear you need to be locked up in an insane asylum.

 

[Roudy]

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

From over this side of the pond, we have another intrepid traveller who went to see for himself. I've read his book; well worth the read if you can get hold of it. If not, hopefully you can get this over there:

There have been individuals who don't think as you do who have also visited and have seen things differently. One case in mind is a Pakistani Muslim whose idea had changed once he visited Israel. There have been others like him.

A Muslim in a Jewish Land

About the author.

"Dr. Syed was strongly affiliated with Zionism and openly promoted himself as a Muslim Zionist. His close friend was the eminent Israeli journalist Ari Busse. Ari's strong pro zionist views were reflected in Dr. Syed's writings. Ari Busse now runs Dr Syeds Muslim World Today and Paktoday.com."

Tashbih Sayyed - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

He was on the board of "Jihad Watch" a Zionist Electronic Intifafda

Good source Hoss.

How about this source. Id say its straight for the horse's mouth: