Nobel Prize For Palestinian Hero?

[Boston1]

They needed Arab Muslim interpreters right about then.

So what your saying is you sold out your people and now all this bluff and bluster about Israel is your little way of elevating your guilt ?

As a Native American I elected to never join the US military.

Now if you consider this nonsense about some convicted murderer being forwarded by the Arab Muslims in Israel as a candidate for a nobel. Then you must also consider the terrorist educational system that could manage to warp a mind to such a degree.

Throw the UNRWA out of Israel if this is the kind of example they wish to set.

 

[Roudy]

Didn't Menachem Begin receive the Nobel Peace Prize?

Same one that they presented the terrorist theif Arafat, the founder of the Palestinian national bowel movement.

 

[montelatici]

Didn't Menachem Begin receive the Nobel Peace Prize?

Same one that they presented the terrorist theif Arafat.

Exactly.

 

[Roudy]

Yeah exactly, the guy who told his "people" to jihad and commit more suicide bombings, so that he can steal more money. In the end his wife skipped town with the stolen billions never to be seen again. Begin was like a George Washington of Israel.

 

[Coyote]

There are a lot of questionable claims being made here.

First of all


The Palestinian Authority (PA) is seeking to have the international forum recognize their “right under international law” to murder Israeli civilians in all places and at all times, which they claim is established by a UN resolution.

Their claim is based on an article in PMW:

• PA seeks Nobel Peace Prize for imprisoned terrorist Marwan Barghouti - convicted for the murder of five, as "a call to recognize the legitimacy of theprisoners' struggle," i.e., the legitimacy of the "right" to kill Israelis.

“The candidacy (of Barghouti) is essentially a call to recognize the legitimacy of the prisoners' struggle... and also a response to the claims and Israeli terms that do not recognize the legitimacy of their struggle, and treat them as 'terrorists and criminals,'” said the head of the PLO Commission of Prisoners' Affairs Issa Karake.​

This appears to be entirely based on the author's interpretation of what was said, not what was actually said or asked for. Recognizing the "legitimacy of the prisoner's struggle" can mean many things, most importantly - their right to autonomy and a state of their own, in line with many similar struggles. It does not necessarily mean a right to murder Israeli civilians where ever and when ever. This could also mean treating them as POW's as opposed to terrorists. IMO - strike one against the honesty of the reporting here.


Responses to another claim, below, are intriguing:

As a means to attain this recognition, the PA is asking the international community to award an imprisoned Palestinian terrorist with the Nobel Peace Prize. As the leader of the Tanzim, Fatah's terror wing, Marwan Barghouti orchestrated many terror attacks in which Israelis were murdered. He was convicted in an Israeli court and is serving five life sentences for murder.​

Outrage and criticism of this is ironic given certain history. As Monte pointed out, former Nobel Prize winners Menachan Begin and Nelson Mandella both were involved in orchestrating brutal attacks and murders against civilians.

Are there similarities between those two men and Barghouti? Yes.

The first and most obvious - they all engaged in terrorism, including murder, against civilian targets.

• Neither ever expressed any regret for that violence, viewing it as a necessary part of the process of liberation.
• They served time in brutal prisons, for their activities, and that was very formative to their outlooks
• They all became involved to some extent, in the political processes of their respective causes
• They all sought a peaceful resolution at some point of their careers

Some interesting points from Wikipedia:

• Barghouti campaigned against corruption in Arafat's administration and human rights violations by its security services, and he established relationships with a number of Israeli politicians and members of Israel's peace movement.[1] The formal position occupied by Barghouti was Secretary-General of Fatah in the West Bank.[15] By the summer of 2000, particularly after the Camp David summit failed, Barghouti was disillusioned and said that popular protests and "new forms of military struggle" would be features of the "next Intifada"

• As the Second Intifada raged, Barghouti became increasingly popular as a leader of the Fatah armed branch, the Tanzim, seen as one of the major forces fighting against the Israel Defense Forces. Barghouti led marches to Israeli checkpoints, where riots broke out against Israeli soldiers and spurred on Palestinians in speeches at funerals and demonstrations, condoning the use of force to expel Israel from the West Bank and Gaza Strip.[1] He has stated that, "I, and the Fatah movement to which I belong, strongly oppose attacks and the targeting of civilians inside Israel, our future neighbor, I reserve the right to protect myself, to resist the Israeli occupation of my country and to fight for my freedom" and has said, "I still seek peaceful coexistence between the equal and independent countries of Israel and Palestine based on full withdrawal from Palestinian territories occupied in 1967."[16] During the second intifada Barghouti was accused by Israel of being a senior member of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, an organization which conducted numerous attacks and suicide bombings on civilians both within and outside of Israel proper, and has been accused of having directed some of these bombings personally.[6][dead link]

• During his trial, Barghouti was found guilty of involvement in three attacks that killed a total of five people: a June 2001 attack in Ma'ale Adumim that killed a Greek monk, a January 2002 attack on a Givat Ze'ev gas station, the March 2002 Seafood market attack in Tel Aviv, and a car bombing in Jerusalem.[17]

• On 11 May 2006, Palestinian leaders held in Israeli prisons released the National Conciliation Document of the Prisoners. The document was a proposal initiated by Marwan Barghouti and leaders of Hamas, the PFLP, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the DFLP that proposed a basis upon which a coalition government should be formed in the Palestinian Legislative Council. This came as a result of the political stalemate in the Palestinian territories that followed Hamas' election to the PLC in January 2006. Crucially, the document also called for negotiation with the state of Israel in order to achieve lasting peace. The document quickly gained popular currency and is now considered the bedrock upon which a national unity government should be achieved. According to Haaretz, Barghouti, although not officially represented in the negotiations of a Palestinian unity government in February 2007, played a major role in mediating between Hamas and Fatah and formulating the compromise reached on 8 February 2007.[32] In 2009, he was elected to party leadership at the Fatah Conference in Bethlehem.[10]

• Barghouti continues to advocate for the 2-state solution from prison, and occasionally writes articles for foreign media outlets arguing his case.[33][34] In October of 2015 he wrote:

As many today want us to be overwhelmed by the potential consequences of a new spiral of violence, I will plead, as I did in 2002, to deal with its root causes: the denial of Palestinian freedom. ... No people on the globe would accept to coexist with oppression. By nature, humans yearn for freedom, struggle for freedom, sacrifice for freedom, and the freedom of the Palestinian people is long overdue. ... I joined the struggle for Palestinian independence 40 years ago, and was first imprisoned at the age of 15. This did not prevent me from pleading for peace in accordance with international law and UN resolutions. But Israel, the occupying power, has methodically destroyed this perspective year after year. I have spent 20 years of my life in Israeli jails, including the past 13 years, and these years have made me even more certain of this unalterable truth: the last day of occupation will be the first day of peace.[33][34]​

Whether he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize or not is up to the committee, but given the criminal backgrounds of two previous Nobel winners - Begin and Mandella, why should he not be nominated? Why such selective outrage here? Is the criteria applied across the board, or selectively?

 

[Coyote]

A bunch of off topic fighting was moved to a new thread in Badlands - let's discuss the topic please.

 

[montelatici]

Yeah exactly, the guy who told his "people" to jihad and commit more suicide bombings, so that he can steal more money. In the end his wife skipped town with the stolen billions never to be seen again. Begin was like a George Washington of Israel.

George Washington was not a terrorist. Shut your trap.

 

[Boston1]

Quote

most importantly - their right to autonomy and a state of their own, in line with many similar struggles

End Quote

Name one single similar "struggle" were a colonial power had its ass handed to it by the returning as well as existing native peoples and then cried foul ?

Also if you could ;--) please explain why the land needed to offer the colonists their own homeland must be sliced out of the smallest of the mandate areas countries ? Jordan is 100' across the river and lets get real. There is absolutely NO distinctive characteristics between the Jordanians on one side of the river and the Jordanians on the other. Other than maybe one set of Jordanians stripped the citizenship from the other.

Why not save all this fighting and hassle and just chop a piece out of Jordan ?

 

[Coyote]

Quote

most importantly - their right to autonomy and a state of their own, in line with many similar struggles

End Quote

Name one single similar "struggle" were a colonial power had its ass handed to it by the returning as well as existing native peoples and then cried foul ?

There is no returning native people, that's a whole 'nother argument, and it doesn't detract from the fact that these people have a legitimate cause.

Also if you could ;--) please explain why the land needed to offer the colonists their own homeland must be sliced out of the smallest of the mandate areas countries ? Jordan is 100' across the river and lets get real. There is absolutely NO distinctive characteristics between the Jordanians on one side of the river and the Jordanians on the other. Other than maybe one set of Jordanians stripped the citizenship from the other.

The land needed is no more, no less, than a portion of their ancestral homeland. But, that is neither here nor there.

Why not save all this fighting and hassle and just chop a piece out of Jordan ?

Because Jordan is Jordan and the Palestinian's homeland is...where they are.

What you suggest is something analagous to the trail of tears - forced expulsion into another area.

 

[Coyote]

Why shouldn't Marwan Barghouti be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize?

 

[Boston1]

Quote

most importantly - their right to autonomy and a state of their own, in line with many similar struggles

End Quote

Name one single similar "struggle" were a colonial power had its ass handed to it by the returning as well as existing native peoples and then cried foul ?

There is no returning native people, that's a whole 'nother argument, and it doesn't detract from the fact that these people have a legitimate cause.

Also if you could ;--) please explain why the land needed to offer the colonists their own homeland must be sliced out of the smallest of the mandate areas countries ? Jordan is 100' across the river and lets get real. There is absolutely NO distinctive characteristics between the Jordanians on one side of the river and the Jordanians on the other. Other than maybe one set of Jordanians stripped the citizenship from the other.

The land needed is no more, no less, than a portion of their ancestral homeland. But, that is neither here nor there.

Why not save all this fighting and hassle and just chop a piece out of Jordan ?

Because Jordan is Jordan and the Palestinian's homeland is...where they are.

What you suggest is something analagous to the trail of tears - forced expulsion into another area.

False.

I live in Colorado, doesn't make me any less Cayuga than if I were back on my homelands now. I could RETURN whenever I so chose and I'd still be Cayuga. A native person may RETURN to a homeland anytime and its still their homeland.

On the other hand the Arab Muslims homeland is in Arabia.

Which completely demolishes the Arab Muslim narrative regarding illusions to a legitimate cause.

You don't know a thing about history if you think what I'm suggesting is in any way associated with the trail of tears incident. Which as coincidence would have it I just rote a history piece for elsewhere.

The five civilized nations were completely peaceful and had in no way involved themselves in anything that could be misconstrued as terrorism.

The Arab Muslims in Israel on the other hand. Well it hardly bears mentioning.

The Geneva Conventions allow for the controlling power to segregate POWs from civilians and to repatriate the POWs to their places of origin or otherwise. No mutual agreements need be made between combatants in order for the expulsion of either POWs or combatants.

Yur logic fails on every level. ;--)

 

[Boston1]

Why shouldn't Marwan Barghouti be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize?

Because he'd make a better example if he were fried in our man Edison's example of the dangers of AC electricity

The chair

 

[Coyote]

Why shouldn't Marwan Barghouti be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize?

Because he'd make a better example if he were fried in our man Edison's example of the dangers of AC electricity

The chair

Should Begin have been given the KFC treatment then?

 

[Coyote]

Quote

most importantly - their right to autonomy and a state of their own, in line with many similar struggles

End Quote

Name one single similar "struggle" were a colonial power had its ass handed to it by the returning as well as existing native peoples and then cried foul ?

There is no returning native people, that's a whole 'nother argument, and it doesn't detract from the fact that these people have a legitimate cause.

Also if you could ;--) please explain why the land needed to offer the colonists their own homeland must be sliced out of the smallest of the mandate areas countries ? Jordan is 100' across the river and lets get real. There is absolutely NO distinctive characteristics between the Jordanians on one side of the river and the Jordanians on the other. Other than maybe one set of Jordanians stripped the citizenship from the other.

The land needed is no more, no less, than a portion of their ancestral homeland. But, that is neither here nor there.

Why not save all this fighting and hassle and just chop a piece out of Jordan ?

Because Jordan is Jordan and the Palestinian's homeland is...where they are.

What you suggest is something analagous to the trail of tears - forced expulsion into another area.

False.

I live in Colorado, doesn't make me any less Cayuga than if I were back on my homelands now. I could RETURN whenever I so chose and I'd still be Cayuga. A native person may RETURN to a homeland anytime and its still their homeland.

On the other hand the Arab Muslims homeland is in Arabia.

Which completely demolishes the Arab Muslim narrative regarding illusions to a legitimate cause.

You don't know a thing about history if you think what I'm suggesting is in any way associated with the trail of tears incident. Which as coincidence would have it I just rote a history piece for elsewhere.

The five civilized nations were completely peaceful and had in no way involved themselves in anything that could be misconstrued as terrorism.

The Arab Muslims in Israel on the other hand. Well it hardly bears mentioning.

The Geneva Conventions allow for the controlling power to segregate POWs from civilians and to repatriate the POWs to their places of origin or otherwise. No mutual agreements need be made between combatants in order for the expulsion of either POWs or combatants.

Yur logic fails on every level. ;--)

One problem.

"Native Muslims" come from all over the world.

Major fail that.

Great 'yote cartoon though

 

[Boston1]

Why shouldn't Marwan Barghouti be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize?

Because he'd make a better example if he were fried in our man Edison's example of the dangers of AC electricity

The chair

Should Begin have been given the KFC treatment then?

Begin was a soldier who later had the courage to sign a peace deal with the Israeli's Your man Marwan is just a murderer, nothing more, an illegal combatant and a murderer.

 

[Boston1]

Quote

most importantly - their right to autonomy and a state of their own, in line with many similar struggles

End Quote

Name one single similar "struggle" were a colonial power had its ass handed to it by the returning as well as existing native peoples and then cried foul ?

There is no returning native people, that's a whole 'nother argument, and it doesn't detract from the fact that these people have a legitimate cause.

Also if you could ;--) please explain why the land needed to offer the colonists their own homeland must be sliced out of the smallest of the mandate areas countries ? Jordan is 100' across the river and lets get real. There is absolutely NO distinctive characteristics between the Jordanians on one side of the river and the Jordanians on the other. Other than maybe one set of Jordanians stripped the citizenship from the other.

The land needed is no more, no less, than a portion of their ancestral homeland. But, that is neither here nor there.

Why not save all this fighting and hassle and just chop a piece out of Jordan ?

Because Jordan is Jordan and the Palestinian's homeland is...where they are.

What you suggest is something analagous to the trail of tears - forced expulsion into another area.

False.

I live in Colorado, doesn't make me any less Cayuga than if I were back on my homelands now. I could RETURN whenever I so chose and I'd still be Cayuga. A native person may RETURN to a homeland anytime and its still their homeland.

On the other hand the Arab Muslims homeland is in Arabia.

Which completely demolishes the Arab Muslim narrative regarding illusions to a legitimate cause.

You don't know a thing about history if you think what I'm suggesting is in any way associated with the trail of tears incident. Which as coincidence would have it I just rote a history piece for elsewhere.

The five civilized nations were completely peaceful and had in no way involved themselves in anything that could be misconstrued as terrorism.

The Arab Muslims in Israel on the other hand. Well it hardly bears mentioning.

The Geneva Conventions allow for the controlling power to segregate POWs from civilians and to repatriate the POWs to their places of origin or otherwise. No mutual agreements need be made between combatants in order for the expulsion of either POWs or combatants.

Yur logic fails on every level. ;--)

One problem.

"Native Muslims" come from all over the world.

Major fail that.

Great 'yote cartoon though

Actually the fail is that I specified Arab muslims ;--) and you conveniently missed it.

The Arab Muslims in Israel are the problem are Arabian.

Even if you want to pretend that there ever were a people called palestinians who weren't Judaic you still have the problem of them being Jordanians. And Jordan illegally stripping them of their citizenship. In which case they're homeland is in Jordan. ;--)

 

[montelatici]

Why shouldn't Marwan Barghouti be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize?

Because he'd make a better example if he were fried in our man Edison's example of the dangers of AC electricity

The chair

Should Begin have been given the KFC treatment then?

Begin was a soldier who later had the courage to sign a peace deal with the Israeli's Your man Marwan is just a murderer, nothing more, an illegal combatant and a murderer.

Begin was a terrorist and illegal combatant who organized the murder of civilians in Mandatory Palestine. You are a hypocrite.

 

[Boston1]

Why shouldn't Marwan Barghouti be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize?

Because he'd make a better example if he were fried in our man Edison's example of the dangers of AC electricity

The chair

Should Begin have been given the KFC treatment then?

Begin was a soldier who later had the courage to sign a peace deal with the Israeli's Your man Marwan is just a murderer, nothing more, an illegal combatant and a murderer.

Begin was a terrorist and illegal combatant who organized the murder of civilians in Mandatory Palestine. You are a hypocrite.

Oh thats rich, the guy who just got caught lying about the reprisals in Czechoslovakia in WW2 is calling someone else a hypocrite.

I can't wait to hear this one.

OK there Numbnuts lets hear it

Prove Begin wasn't a soldier ;--)

I wonder if you even know what the definition of an illegal combatant is

 

[montelatici]

You are the one caught lying asshole.

 

[Boston1]

You are the one caught lying asshole.

Looks like your entire argument breaks down to just another false claim.

Can you be specific about this lying thing ?

Oh and just to keep you posted the subject is giving a nobel to a guy serving five life sentences for acting as an illegal combatant murdering innocent civilians

You were about to prove he was a legitimate soldier and, something about military targets ?

Enlighten us if you would ;--)