Obama, Republicans reach deal to extend tax cuts, unemployment benefits

[MaggieMae]

Bush had a wartime economy.

Hilarious. The first words out of his mouth were GO OUT AND SPEND, when they should have been WE ALL NEED TO SACRIFICE. You are fucking nuts.

 

[Trajan]

Bush didn't inherit a mess from Clinton. Bush inherited a surplus and a tax structure that was paying the bills. The economy was slowing down into one of the mildest recessions in recent history.

The Democratic Congress inherited triple digit deficits and a tax structure that could not pay the bills. The economy was slowing down into one of the worst recessions in recent history.

How you can draw equivalence between those 2 scenarios is mystifying.

He inherited an intelligenc and security mess, an espionage mess, and a bursted tech bubble burnt out economy mess.

The dotcom bubble was a mere blip as far as recessions go.

Early 2000s recession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The early 2000s recession was not as bad as many predicted it would be, nor was it as bad as either of the two previous worldwide recessions. Many economists object to characterizing it as a "recession," in the United States, since there were not two consecutive periods of negative growth.

The intelligence failures weren't something the Bush Administration set out to fix, so I don't even know why you would mention those. His own intelligence briefings were ignored much of the time in any event, lax as it might have been. But after 911, Bush Co. set out to "fix" the intelligence apparatus by ADDING a few more levels to mess up the analyses as it gets fed up through the pipeline. Now we have a new behemoth called Homeland Security acting as the Mother Ship for all the myriad "agencies." It's a miracle we haven't been attacked again.

we have been attacked again, several times.

 

[MaggieMae]

How will the unemployment benefits be paid for? More debt spending. Will the decrease in the payroll tax result in a decrease in Social Security benefits? If not, how can we afford to do that when SS is also underfunded?

I feel this is an irresponsible move by both parties.

There's no "decrease" in payroll tax. Levying additional taxes on people, especially in a slow or limited growth period helps no one.
Social Security is doomed if the federal government continues to rob the funds deducted from employee paychecks. The system is broken because there are simply not as many workers paying into the system needed to support the amount of people drawing from the system.
Unemployment benefits appear to be open ended.
The key is to modify the requirements to receive the stipend.
The GOP should have required states to deny assistance to any person not actively looking for work.

They're SUPPOSED to be doing that anyway.

 

[MaggieMae]

and Bush inherited the war on terror due to clinton's inactions.

Bla bla bla bla bla.

The 911 Commission would say otherwise.

 

[MaggieMae]

The real conservatives take over on 1/1.

Yeah but the idiots who are still there just screwed the new incoming congresspeople with this unfunded comprimise bill and the media will claim it was the new congress that did it if it fails. If its succeeds the media will claim these new republicans fought against the comprimise and give all the credit to the dems/obama.

Its sucks having such biased media but at least those of us who are informed see the bias across all news outlets.

Is that all you're worried about? Biased media can be picked apart quite easily, you know, if you have the facts.

 

[MaggieMae]

Tax-cut deal reached between Obama, Republicans

This is the best news for all. AND Obama will have an opportunity to expound on it as the elections in `12, loom. I think, with this compromise, he has done himself a favor if the economy improves and if he really wants a second term. He may regain support of Independents and women, which he lost so drastically the past two years. His base will hang with him for the entitlements unless a new and improved version of a Democratic leader comes along.

Look at this from the other view. If not for GOP pressures, Obama would most definitely allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire AND extended UE benefits.
I look at this as a GOP victory and a victory for the American people. Voters will remember this in 2012 and 2014.
Do you really think the democrats are going to get credit for this? How would that be possible. We knew the democrat position on the tax cuts. We knew the democrat position on unemployment benefits. The democrats supported extension and opposed any mention of allowing the tax cuts to continue.
It is only after the November elections when democrats began mentioning "compromise".

No, it was only after the meeting at the WH with leadership of both parties just two weeks ago, when everyone emerged all set to do the compromise dance (or so they said before the cameras) but the following day Mitch McConnell made his statement that the Senate did not intend to support a single Democratic bill from now on UNTIL they agreed to extend the tax cuts, period. And Boehner soon followed. The prior day's Dog and Pony Show was pure acting. The political posturing was clear. Extend the tax cuts or fuck you. I do believe anyone would choose some form of tax cuts over getting fucked by Mitch McConnell or John Boehner.

 

[MaggieMae]

wealthy is a comparative number, the fact that so few Americans make 250,000 a year should give you a clue idiot.

It is considered wealthy by about 98% of Americans.

Which just goes to underscore that there is no real valid economic rationale to raise taxes on the top 2%. It's just based on purely emotional ENVY.

Exactly, all it is is a scare tactic by liberals. oooooh look, the republicans are catering to the rich and snubbing the poor. Wrong, they are putting funds in the hands of those who drive enterprise which inturn creates employment

Um, so wha happened that it never happened? All during the Bush administration, wages were flat or reduced, benefits cut or eliminated, people laid off and a rehiring of twofers to do the same job so they wouldn't have to pay overtime or benefits. Boedicca loves to spin her yarn that everyone who doesn't make millions is just suffering from jealousy. It's the lamest of lame explanations there is.

 

[The T]

Obama has no backbone. Borrowing $700 billion to pay for tax cuts for millionaires is fiscally irresponsible

The Deficit cutting Republicans agreeing to add additional debt for extending unemployment shows once and for all that they are more interested in getting tax cuts for their buddies than balancing the budget

Tea party....Where the fuck are you?

What is fiscally irresponsible is Congressional spending habits...and the executive habits of enabling it, AND the voters for NOT putting their foot up the asses of both sooner...

 

[JakeStarkey]

This compromise has damaged the GOP with middle America. McConnell and his stooges will keep the GOP in the minority in the Senate in 2012, and I did not think that would be possible at all. Now I know that if he continues to hold the middle hostage, the middle will punish the GOP.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

and Bush inherited the war on terror due to clinton's inactions.

Bla bla bla bla bla.

The WOT has been brewing for quite a long time. I don't think it's fair to place the blame solely on one administration.

 

[MaggieMae]

because we can't afford to subsidize a bunch of rich people while we borrow money from china to pay for two unnecessary wars.

that's why.

and my dad always taught me... you can't give in to schoolyard bullies. if they want to act like bullies, you tell them to piss off.

really that simple. and i'm kind of tired of obama giving in to the righwingnuts before he even has to.

someone said he punted on the first down... i agree that's what he did.

No, they said "punted on third down." But consider that there's only 10 seconds left in the game, and you're on the 50 yard line, with the score tied. A good punter will try an onside kick.

Besides, Obama isn't exactly cutting out spending on those two unnecessary wars is he. Spending is up, WTF?

No, it isn't.

Financial cost of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Appropriations
See also: Iraq Relief and Reconstruction Fund
FY2003 Supplemental: Operation Iraqi Freedom: Passed April 2003; Total $78.5 billion, $54.4 billion Iraq War
FY2004 Supplemental: Iraq and Afghanistan Ongoing Operations/Reconstruction: Passed November 2003; Total $87.5 billion, $70.6 billion Iraq War
FY2004 DoD Budget Amendment: $25 Emergency Reserve Fund (Iraq Freedom Fund): Passed July 2004, Total $25 billion, $21.5 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2005 Emergency Supplemental: Operations in the War on Terror; Activities in Afghanistan; Tsunami Relief: Passed April 2005, Total $82 billion, $58 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2006 Department of Defense appropriations: Total $50 billion, $40 billion (estimated) Iraq War.
FY2006 Emergency Supplemental: Operations Global War on Terror; Activities in Iraq & Afghanistan: Passed February 2006, Total $72.4 billion, $60 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2007 Department of Defense appropriations: $70 billion(estimated) for Iraq War-related costs[4][5]
FY2007 Emergency Supplemental (proposed) $100 billion
FY2008 Bush administration has proposed around $190 billion for the Iraq War and Afghanistan[6]
FY2009 Obama administration has proposed around $130 billion in additional funding for the Iraq War and Afghanistan.[7]
FY2011 Obama administration proposes around $159.3 billion for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.[8]

 

[MaggieMae]

adding 900 Billion to the deficit in two years. So much for the Republican "pay as you go" promise. Anything to give a Millionaire a tax break!

We have every reason to believe the GOP has a "plan" to pay for this, right? Just as soon as they take power in the House, right?

Indeed. Something tells me they'll suddenly be very eager to "compromise" at that time.

 

[Annie]

Obama has no backbone. Borrowing $700 billion to pay for tax cuts for millionaires is fiscally irresponsible

The Deficit cutting Republicans agreeing to add additional debt for extending unemployment shows once and for all that they are more interested in getting tax cuts for their buddies than balancing the budget

Tea party....Where the fuck are you?

No one really 'speaks' for the tea parties, but Michelle Malkin has some grip on where they are likely to go:

Michelle Malkin Deal with the devil: Temporary across-the-board tax relief for more endless jobless benefits

Deal with the devil: Temporary across-the-board tax relief for more endless jobless benefits
By Michelle Malkin • December 6, 2010 06:06 PM

I understand many Beltway politicos consider the Obama/GOP tax deal — to be announced at 6:10pm Eastern by the president — to be a “win” for Republicans because the White House has conceded much, including a temporary payroll tax cut holiday of one year that would bring down the workers’ portion of FICA/Social Security taxes by 2 percent from 6.2 to 4.2%.

But outside Washington, many small businesses are getting hammered by the bottomless government subsidies for the unemployed at the expense of struggling employers.

Take my home state of Colorado — where I’m getting inundated with e-mails and first-hand stories from restaurant owners, dentists, and other business people (many of whom employ low-wage workers) grappling with massive UI bills. We’re not alone here in the Rockies. Between 30-40 state unemployment funds are bankrupt or teetering on the edge. And small businesses are paying the price. I’ll be reporting much more on the problem in my syndicated column on Wednesday.

Via the Denver Post:...

 

[Trajan]

This is the best news for all. AND Obama will have an opportunity to expound on it as the elections in `12, loom. I think, with this compromise, he has done himself a favor if the economy improves and if he really wants a second term. He may regain support of Independents and women, which he lost so drastically the past two years. His base will hang with him for the entitlements unless a new and improved version of a Democratic leader comes along.

Look at this from the other view. If not for GOP pressures, Obama would most definitely allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire AND extended UE benefits.
I look at this as a GOP victory and a victory for the American people. Voters will remember this in 2012 and 2014.
Do you really think the democrats are going to get credit for this? How would that be possible. We knew the democrat position on the tax cuts. We knew the democrat position on unemployment benefits. The democrats supported extension and opposed any mention of allowing the tax cuts to continue.
It is only after the November elections when democrats began mentioning "compromise".

No, it was only after the meeting at the WH with leadership of both parties just two weeks ago, when everyone emerged all set to do the compromise dance (or so they said before the cameras) but the following day Mitch McConnell made his statement that the Senate did not intend to support a single Democratic bill from now on UNTIL they agreed to extend the tax cuts, period. And Boehner soon followed. The prior day's Dog and Pony Show was pure acting. The political posturing was clear. Extend the tax cuts or fuck you. I do believe anyone would choose some form of tax cuts over getting fucked by Mitch McConnell or John Boehner.

and so what? the worst that would occur is ...nothing. They had their golden 14 months to do anything you wanted to do, which to a large extent they did. stimulus, obama care etc.

So whats the deal then? if the dems don't get everything they want its some big crime?

hey they could have won that Mass. election and kept the gop from 41.....or they could have not lost the last election.

 

[MaggieMae]

i like the fact that im getting some tax breaks. but i am seriously concerned about the effort the government is going to to destroy the heart and soul of so many people by keeping them on public assistance.

For one thing, it doesn't include those who have already been collecting for 99 weeks, which a lot of people believe.

 

[Trajan]

No, they said "punted on third down." But consider that there's only 10 seconds left in the game, and you're on the 50 yard line, with the score tied. A good punter will try an onside kick.

Besides, Obama isn't exactly cutting out spending on those two unnecessary wars is he. Spending is up, WTF?

No, it isn't.

Financial cost of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Appropriations
See also: Iraq Relief and Reconstruction Fund
FY2003 Supplemental: Operation Iraqi Freedom: Passed April 2003; Total $78.5 billion, $54.4 billion Iraq War
FY2004 Supplemental: Iraq and Afghanistan Ongoing Operations/Reconstruction: Passed November 2003; Total $87.5 billion, $70.6 billion Iraq War
FY2004 DoD Budget Amendment: $25 Emergency Reserve Fund (Iraq Freedom Fund): Passed July 2004, Total $25 billion, $21.5 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2005 Emergency Supplemental: Operations in the War on Terror; Activities in Afghanistan; Tsunami Relief: Passed April 2005, Total $82 billion, $58 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2006 Department of Defense appropriations: Total $50 billion, $40 billion (estimated) Iraq War.
FY2006 Emergency Supplemental: Operations Global War on Terror; Activities in Iraq & Afghanistan: Passed February 2006, Total $72.4 billion, $60 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2007 Department of Defense appropriations: $70 billion(estimated) for Iraq War-related costs[4][5]
FY2007 Emergency Supplemental (proposed) $100 billion
FY2008 Bush administration has proposed around $190 billion for the Iraq War and Afghanistan[6]
FY2009 Obama administration has proposed around $130 billion in additional funding for the Iraq War and Afghanistan.[7]
FY2011 Obama administration proposes around $159.3 billion for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.[8]

wheres 2010?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

How will the unemployment benefits be paid for? More debt spending. Will the decrease in the payroll tax result in a decrease in Social Security benefits? If not, how can we afford to do that when SS is also underfunded?

I feel this is an irresponsible move by both parties.

There's no "decrease" in payroll tax. .

Yes there is! They are going to lower the payroll tax from 6.2% to 4.2% for one year.

President Obama and congressional Republicans have reached a tentative accord on a far-reaching economic package that would preserve George W. Bush administration tax breaks for families at all income levels for two years, extend emergency jobless benefits through 2011 and cut payroll taxes by 2 percent for every American worker through the end of next year.

The unemployment extension has the higher multiplier, but the two percent cut will reduce employee-side payroll taxes from 6.2 to 4.2 percent. According to officials, "a worker making $70,000 would get $1,400 in tax relief."

Unhappy Dems Mull Obama-GOP Tax Cut Deal | TPMDC

 

[Trajan]

and its only on the employee side not the employer side.

 

[MaggieMae]

Unless I'm missing something, it's a temporary 2-year extension, so roughly $140 billion, not $700 billion. Given the economy the way it is, granting those tax cuts seems reasonable even to me. I don't believe in trickle down economics at all, but at this moment in time, it's reasonable to think it could have a positive psychological effect for job creators short term. Risk/reward it seems acceptable in the short run.

Dumb question here. I haven't looked into the legislative actions that need to take place with it. In the two years they're set to expire, would a new law need to be passed to extend them again or to raise them? In other words, in 2 years, with the next Congress, they could let them expire, and would need 60 votes in the Senate to extend them again right?

Yes, and you are correct that the details have yet to be determined. Some of the tax cuts for businesses and individuals will be extensions of what are already in the stimulus bill, so those will be funded out of that (I presume). So in the next week or so, we should know what the numbers are, how they will be funded, and how much will actually be added to the deficit. Right now, it's all just supposition.

 

[MaggieMae]

I want to know how future Speaker Boner is going to pay for this. Please don't tell me that they don't have a plan to pay for the tax cuts for the rich! I mean that would be hypocrisy, wouldn't it?

That is how the GOP won their seats in the House. They were going to "Pay as they go. Hey, even before they are sworn in, they go back on thier words. Gee, was that claim just another political lie?

Come on GOP voices. Give me your solution here!

assuming one has to "pay" for a tax cut is assuming that its the governments money in the first place
what you need to pay for is spending programs

Which, of course, they didn't do but got their tax breaks anyway. Hello?????