Obama, Republicans reach deal to extend tax cuts, unemployment benefits

[LibocalypseNow]

The Democrats blew it big-time on this one. They shouldn't have waited till the last minute on this. It's just more shocking incomptence from this Worst Congress in History. This should have been taken care of a long time ago. Shame on them.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Ah yes, we should return to the good ol' days when people supported other people by exchanging beads for pelts, borrowing your neighbor's horse and buggy to drive an injured farmer to the town doc instead of calling an ambulance.

If you're capable of defending your point then you shouldn't need to turn to absurd hyperbole.

I've been seriously defending my point throughout, in case you missed all of it. I "refudiate" with absurdity whenever I see absurdity posing as reality.

I see nothing absurd about keeping what is rightfully ours and not having to surrender it over to the government so they can distribute it out to people who did not earn and therefore do not deserve it.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The Democrats blew it big-time on this one. They shouldn't have waited till the last minute on this. It's just more shocking incomptence from this Worst Congress in History. This should have been taken care of a long time ago. Shame on them.

Yep. They're just trying to ram something through now.

 

[VaYank5150]

Well that is simple. According to John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, Eric Cantor, et al, extending these tax cuts for the richest Americans will allow said richest Americans to create jobs. The part they haven't explained is why these richest Americans have been holding off creating jobs while these tax cuts have been in place...

If you'd pay attention to the business community you'd know that it has been explained over and over and over. Businesses have been erring on the side of caution because they don't know what's going to happen with the tax code. The Congress has been fighting about it all year. Will the tax rates be continued or will they be raised? They also don't know the full effect of ObamaCare and what that is going to do to the bottom line. If the current tax rates are extended, unemployment will go down. Case and point, meet the CEO of Bank of America:

Bank of America's Moynihan: Tax Cuts Could Spur Hiring - MarketBeat - WSJ

As far as manufacturing? The unions killed the manufacturing jobs. Period. No amount of government involvement can mitigate the sort of pay the unions demanded.

Manufacturing in the USA is a thing of the past and those who keep hanging on to the idea that it will some day come back need a kick in the ass. When China and Vietnam and third world nations can do the same work for pennies on the dollar, that's where the production is going to be.

So.....businesses have been laying people off and not creating jobs for the past 2 and half years because they were already worried about whether or not the tax cuts they were already enjoying would some day be extended?

 

[asterism]

And no surprise, none of the liberals are demanding that thier people cut spending so we don't have to keep borrowing.

cut spending on what?

none of the rightwingers will say.

Bullshit

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The tax cuts are one of the many irresponsible actions perpetrated by the Bush administration..

And if they hadn't been cut then the post 9-11 recession would have lingered a lot longer and you'd have been bitching about and blaming him for that.

It wasn't the tax cuts that were irresponsible. It was the spending spree that he and his party went on after they cut them.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

So.....businesses have been laying people off and not creating jobs for the past 2 and half years because they were already worried about whether or not the tax cuts they were already enjoying would some day be extended?

Businesses have been laying people off and not creating jobs for the past 2 and half years because of the financial crash, but you already knew that, so why are you asking the question?

 

[LibocalypseNow]

The Democrats blew it big-time on this one. They shouldn't have waited till the last minute on this. It's just more shocking incomptence from this Worst Congress in History. This should have been taken care of a long time ago. Shame on them.

Yep. They're just trying to ram something through now.

That pretty much sums up their entire time in power. Why did they wait till the very last minute to debate this? The Democrats really are shockingly incompetent. They're much better at being the Opposition Party. They clearly can't Govern. They're clueless. So now they're ramming another piece of Legislation through with no time to read it or debate it properly. What a joke.

 

[VaYank5150]

So.....businesses have been laying people off and not creating jobs for the past 2 and half years because they were already worried about whether or not the tax cuts they were already enjoying would some day be extended?

Businesses have been laying people off and not creating jobs for the past 2 and half years because of the financial crash, but you already knew that, so why are you asking the question?

Ummmm....because in your previous post, you said this:

If you'd pay attention to the business community you'd know that it has been explained over and over and over. Businesses have been erring on the side of caution because they don't know what's going to happen with the tax code.

So, which is it?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Obama proposed taxing corporations that outsourced several months ago, and it got no traction.

Obama Proposes Offshore Tax Policy

That's an interesting proposal coming from the president being that one of his department appointees spent $36 million in taxpayer dollars to train 3,000 offshore workers in India.

U.S. To Train 3,000 Offshore IT Workers -- InformationWeek

 

[DiveCon]

And no surprise, none of the liberals are demanding that thier people cut spending so we don't have to keep borrowing.

cut spending on what?

none of the rightwingers will say.

Bullshit

well, technically, you aren't exactly a "rightwinger"

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

So.....businesses have been laying people off and not creating jobs for the past 2 and half years because they were already worried about whether or not the tax cuts they were already enjoying would some day be extended?

Businesses have been laying people off and not creating jobs for the past 2 and half years because of the financial crash, but you already knew that, so why are you asking the question?

Ummmm....because in your previous post, you said this:

If you'd pay attention to the business community you'd know that it has been explained over and over and over. Businesses have been erring on the side of caution because they don't know what's going to happen with the tax code.

So, which is it?

I don't know why this is hard for you to understand because it's really quite simple. Taxes were cut after 9-11 to get us out of the recession. Unemployment in proceeding years dropped as low as 4.5%. When the house of cards collapsed due to the national mortgage scam companies went bankrupt and others lost considerable revenue causing layoffs and the unemployment rate rose to double digits. The recovery has been stagnant at this point because some companies are still dealing with the losses, many of the jobs created by the mortgage scam are gone forever, and since nobody knows how bad Washington is going to fuck with them next year, they are reluctant to hire people. Business analysts talk about this all the time in the news. You need to read more than the opinions of political talking heads.

 

[MaggieMae]

If you're capable of defending your point then you shouldn't need to turn to absurd hyperbole.

I've been seriously defending my point throughout, in case you missed all of it. I "refudiate" with absurdity whenever I see absurdity posing as reality.

I see nothing absurd about keeping what is rightfully ours and not having to surrender it over to the government so they can distribute it out to people who did not earn and therefore do not deserve it.

I specifically referred to Mr. T because he's one of those who doesn't think anyone should be taxed at all. And he said so in so many words again. Get it now? (I guess you would have had to know that about him.)

 

[asterism]

Well that is simple. According to John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, Eric Cantor, et al, extending these tax cuts for the richest Americans will allow said richest Americans to create jobs. The part they haven't explained is why these richest Americans have been holding off creating jobs while these tax cuts have been in place...

If you'd pay attention to the business community you'd know that it has been explained over and over and over. Businesses have been erring on the side of caution because they don't know what's going to happen with the tax code. The Congress has been fighting about it all year. Will the tax rates be continued or will they be raised? They also don't know the full effect of ObamaCare and what that is going to do to the bottom line. If the current tax rates are extended, unemployment will go down. Case and point, meet the CEO of Bank of America:

Bank of America's Moynihan: Tax Cuts Could Spur Hiring - MarketBeat - WSJ

As far as manufacturing? The unions killed the manufacturing jobs. Period. No amount of government involvement can mitigate the sort of pay the unions demanded.

Manufacturing in the USA is a thing of the past and those who keep hanging on to the idea that it will some day come back need a kick in the ass. When China and Vietnam and third world nations can do the same work for pennies on the dollar, that's where the production is going to be.

So.....businesses have been laying people off and not creating jobs for the past 2 and half years because they were already worried about whether or not the tax cuts they were already enjoying would some day be extended?

Yes.

Tax increases were coming, as well as higher mandated costs by the government healthcare law. Now that there is a sign that the costs from healthcare aren't going to quickly go up as much as expected and that the tax rates aren't going up for another two years we have some breathing room. Time to hire since productivity gains are about maxed out.

It's not perfect but it's better and that's all anyone sitting on the fence needs. If by the end of next year unemployment is not at 8-8.5% then clearly I'm wrong. However, I'm already looking for someone new. I'm moving forward on a new project today.

On edit:

Taz explained it better from the perspective of layoffs.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/3064283-post332.html

 

[asterism]

cut spending on what?

none of the rightwingers will say.

Bullshit

well, technically, you aren't exactly a "rightwinger"

Got me there. But I'm sure Jillian thinks I am so my answer fits.

So there!

 

[asterism]

I've been seriously defending my point throughout, in case you missed all of it. I "refudiate" with absurdity whenever I see absurdity posing as reality.

I see nothing absurd about keeping what is rightfully ours and not having to surrender it over to the government so they can distribute it out to people who did not earn and therefore do not deserve it.

I specifically referred to Mr. T because he's one of those who doesn't think anyone should be taxed at all. And he said so in so many words again. Get it now? (I guess you would have had to know that about him.)

You didn't ask me, but I do now.

Clearly we still disagree on whether tax increases help the economy. I don't think they do. If tax increases are needed (something I still don't think is true at this tax level), the time to do it is during a recovery not during a stagnation.

 

[MaggieMae]

The Democrats blew it big-time on this one. They shouldn't have waited till the last minute on this. It's just more shocking incomptence from this Worst Congress in History. This should have been taken care of a long time ago. Shame on them.

Yep. They're just trying to ram something through now.

The issue has been talked about informally for over a year, with Max Baucus at one point last April intending to bring his old bill before the Senate Finance Committee to begin studying ways to draft a new bill. But he was unsuccessful. Then the House tried to design a bill out of ways and means, but it was too close to summer recess and town hall meetings, and again it was tabled. Discussions began in earnest last August over the tax cuts issue, but no real floor debate was ever introduced because it was clear the votes were not there to get anything passed.

Because of the failing economy, Democrats at the outset were dealt a bad hand. If the debate about extending the Bush tax cuts could occur in the middle of an economic boom rather than in the middle of a sluggish recovery, the outcome might have surprised everyone (in favor of not extending the cuts to the wealthiest or even raising the amount). But the selling point favored Republicans in that raising taxes during a recession and/or recovery doesn't make sense economically.

So to say that nothing was being done until the midnight hour isn't really true. This has been a sticking point bantered about in the Halls of Congress for at least a year, and it's only now come to fruition because of time running out.

 

[MaggieMae]

Well that is simple. According to John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, Eric Cantor, et al, extending these tax cuts for the richest Americans will allow said richest Americans to create jobs. The part they haven't explained is why these richest Americans have been holding off creating jobs while these tax cuts have been in place...

If you'd pay attention to the business community you'd know that it has been explained over and over and over. Businesses have been erring on the side of caution because they don't know what's going to happen with the tax code. The Congress has been fighting about it all year. Will the tax rates be continued or will they be raised? They also don't know the full effect of ObamaCare and what that is going to do to the bottom line. If the current tax rates are extended, unemployment will go down. Case and point, meet the CEO of Bank of America:

Bank of America's Moynihan: Tax Cuts Could Spur Hiring - MarketBeat - WSJ

As far as manufacturing? The unions killed the manufacturing jobs. Period. No amount of government involvement can mitigate the sort of pay the unions demanded.

Manufacturing in the USA is a thing of the past and those who keep hanging on to the idea that it will some day come back need a kick in the ass. When China and Vietnam and third world nations can do the same work for pennies on the dollar, that's where the production is going to be.

So.....businesses have been laying people off and not creating jobs for the past 2 and half years because they were already worried about whether or not the tax cuts they were already enjoying would some day be extended?

That does explain a lot of it. A lot of smaller businesses, though, were damaged beyond repair by the bank failures in the fall of 2008 when credit came to a screeching halt and they could not recover over the ensuing months.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Poor Governing by the Democrats. Waiting till the last minute on this was stupid and incompetent. The Democrats really are much better at being the Opposition Party. They cannot Govern.

 

[MaggieMae]

Obama proposed taxing corporations that outsourced several months ago, and it got no traction.

Obama Proposes Offshore Tax Policy

That's an interesting proposal coming from the president being that one of his department appointees spent $36 million in taxpayer dollars to train 3,000 offshore workers in India.

U.S. To Train 3,000 Offshore IT Workers -- InformationWeek

You're not understanding what the difference is. The tax proposal is to eliminate the tax loopholes which allow corporations doing business overseas to avoid paying taxes on their profits but are still allowed to claim deductions. The IT-India deal doesn't have anything to do with that. That said, India doesn't like the tax proposal because they believe it will hurt their own growing economy, and the US needs India as a trade ally as well as a geopolitical ally in the far-reaching event that Pakistan becomes the next real trouble spot for the US. So appeasing India could well be the reason the offshore tax reform bill is stagnant.

That's the overall problem with any big policy reform these days. One aspect greatly effects other aspects and a policy must be written that takes into consideration every potential facet that could have a negative effect.