Palestine Today

[José]

Try to follow the coversation at least:

Mindful said:

Since "Palestine" never was a state, how could land be stolen from something that never was?

I replied:

If palestinian arabs didn't lose 80% of their homeland in 1948 because the british military occupation never allowed them to set up an independent state, Indians lost even less with the colonization of the US because they not only never had a state, they didn't even have private property and private land.

Paraphrasing Mindful:

How could Indians have lost anything if they didn't even understand the western concept of private property?

Why did the entire american jewish community support the native american (and african american) struggle in the 60's if according to Mindful you can only lose your homeland if you already have a state?

 

[José]

Would be nice to see an Arab march for
compensation of historic loses to native Jews.

​

If native palestinian Jews knew, between 1880 - 1948, that what they regarded as the godless, blasphemous ideology of Zionism would make it impossible for them to live in Hebron without a small army protecting them 24\7, they would hate Herzl, Gurion and the satanic ideology they created and implemented even more than they already did.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Kids are kids...all around the world. They didn’t pick these conflicts. She is so cute

The sad part is that her parents did not pick these conflicts either.

Every individual is different...they might well be just trying to make a life in difficult circumstances like many people. But if your statement is absolving the Palestinian people as a whole that isn’t honest.

I don't understand your position. The only thing the Palestinians have ever done is to resist the colonization of their country. They have the legal right to do so.

 

[Shusha]

Kids are kids...all around the world. They didn’t pick these conflicts. She is so cute

The sad part is that her parents did not pick these conflicts either.

Every individual is different...they might well be just trying to make a life in difficult circumstances like many people. But if your statement is absolving the Palestinian people as a whole that isn’t honest.

I don't understand your position. The only thing the Palestinians have ever done is to resist the colonization of their country. They have the legal right to do so.

No. They don't have the "right" to prevent the self-determination of another peoples.

 

[rylah]

The problem with your narrative is the historical fact that the native sephardic-mizrahi community and the small pre-zionist european diaspora regarded the zionist Poles and Belarussians as heretics and blasphemers who wanted to put man above God, as usurpers who wanted to play the role of The Anointed One.

This would be a problem with my narrative, if it wasn't for their call for help due to persecution and Arab pogroms that initiated Jews worldwide to organize politically in response.

Neither the fact that they opposed their secularism say more than their active participation in spite of philosophical differences. Nor was the opposition as overwhelming across all sections of the society as You try to picture. In fact both the Mustareb who never left, and the Mizrahi who always stayed in the neighborhood with the Sephardic community all wholeheartedly supported the Zionist cause for liberation.

The opposition was among the Ashkenazim who themselves were ordered by the sages of the previous generation to immigrate for the fulfillment of the commandments of the land. They too eventually participated all along in the political process and remain most steady political party in the Knesset.

Further clarifying that the basis of the Jewish society remains a cultural-family bond rather than narrow subscription to theology.

 

[rylah]

Would be nice to see an Arab march for
compensation of historic loses to native Jews.

​

If native palestinian Jews knew, between 1880 - 1948, that what they regarded as the godless, blasphemous ideology of Zionism would make it impossible for them to live in Hebron without a small army protecting them 24\7, they would hate Herzl, Gurion and the satanic ideology they created and implemented even more than they already did.

I bet that if they could see us today and compare it to their situation, especially seeing all the Jews finally reunite with the Patriarchs after centuries of Muslim ban, they would rejoice of the part given to them, in spite all the hardships.

After all their children fulfill their yearning of living during the days their parents read about in the prophets.

 

[José]

Nor was the opposition as overwhelming across all sections of the society as You try to picture.

You say the Palestinian Jews' opposition to Zionism was not as overwhelming as I try to picture with arab Jews (who were the majority of the pre-zionist jewish population) "wholeheartedly supporting the Zionist cause for liberation".

An opposition that's not "as overwhelming" as someone says... is still an ENORMOUS opposition.

First you say the majority of palestinian Jews (arab Jews) did not oppose zionism and wholeheartedly supported it but soon after you concede the point that the overall jewish opposition to Zionism was enormous, huge just not as overwhelming as the poster José is trying to convince the Board it was.

Make up your mind, rylah...

You're contradicting yourself scandalously.

 

[P F Tinmore]

People who have lived on that land for hundreds even thousands of years have the right to the land.

We agree.

Also, people who were removed from that land in the process of invasion and colonization have a right to return. Don't you agree?

I agree with your premise but I do have other issues.

I don't see any evidence that the Zionists out of Europe have any ancestors from that territory.

Whenever anyone was removed from the territory it was by foreign powers, like the Romans, not the locals.

Why would anyone who "returns" have exclusive right over those who never left?

 

[José]

And just one more thing....

How on Earth can anyone support Zionism wholeheartedly if they have "philosophical differences with it" which is rylah's "delicate" way of saying palestinian Jews considered Zionism a blasphemy against God?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Kids are kids...all around the world. They didn’t pick these conflicts. She is so cute

The sad part is that her parents did not pick these conflicts either.

Every individual is different...they might well be just trying to make a life in difficult circumstances like many people. But if your statement is absolving the Palestinian people as a whole that isn’t honest.

I don't understand your position. The only thing the Palestinians have ever done is to resist the colonization of their country. They have the legal right to do so.

No. They don't have the "right" to prevent the self-determination of another peoples.

Self determination is for the people of the place not for the people from someplace else.

If you have something to the contrary, I would like to see it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Voice of Empowerment: Rep. Rashida Tlaib | MPAC Convention

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[P F Tinmore]

Electric Arabiya - Nathalie Handal

 

[rylah]

Nor was the opposition as overwhelming across all sections of the society as You try to picture.

You say the Palestinian Jews' opposition to Zionism was not as overwhelming as I try to picture with arab Jews (who were the majority of the pre-zionist jewish population) "wholeheartedly supporting the Zionist cause for liberation".

An opposition that's not "as overwhelming" as someone says... is still an ENORMOUS opposition.

First you say the majority of palestinian Jews (arab Jews) did not oppose zionism and wholeheartedly supported it but soon after you concede the point that the overall jewish opposition to Zionism was enormous, huge just not as overwhelming as the poster José is trying to convince the Board it was.

Make up your mind, rylah...

You're contradicting yourself scandalously.

I'm perfectly consistent,
that's why you need to reserve to a straw man fallacy based on cheap cut n' paste trickery out of context.

There was opposition among Jews who lived under Christian rule,
and overwhelming support among Jews who lived under Muslim rule, who are the majority in Israel.

Further revealing the logic failure at the core of your argument.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Shusha]

People who have lived on that land for hundreds even thousands of years have the right to the land.

We agree.

Also, people who were removed from that land in the process of invasion and colonization have a right to return. Don't you agree?

I agree with your premise ...

Wow. Okay. That's a start.

I don't see any evidence that the Zionists out of Europe have any ancestors from that territory.

Yes, but that is rather the same as you thinking the Mandate for Palestine is written in invisible ink.

What kind of "evidence" would you look for?

Do you believe that the Jewish people were invaded and colonized? Do you believe that at least some Jewish people were exiled? Do you believe that NONE of them migrated to Europe? Ever?

What about the Sephardic and Mizrahi peoples which make up the large majority of Israeli population? Do they have the right of return? Why or why not?

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Shusha]

Misrepresentation. There is no evidence of of this. Official records list 52 dead, from a battle between armed villagers and the Jewish forces.