Pentagon Plans to Shrink Army to Pre-World War II Level

[Samson]

Developing, producing, and deploying, new technology costs money and it's well worth it Having the most advance military in the world is well worth the money spent.

Apparently, my attempt to explain diminishing returns has introduced a notion so alien to your world, it is impossible for you to grasp.



Happily, our democracy will not depend only upon this narrow, More is Better, POV.

I'm sure there is lot of waste and duplication that can be cut. Other than that? You'll haft to be more specific on what is to be considered a diminishing return

How about we just read the article?

All the following are ways to reduce our investment in diminishing returns:

• a limit on military pay raises,
• higher fees for health-care benefits,
• less generous housing allowances, and
• a one-year freeze on raises for top military brass.

 

[Samson]

Maybe I'm too cynical but sometimes it seems that the guys who favor the largest military spending are also the guys who like most to play keyboard tough-guy. Vicarious bully syndrome? VBS, I think I just made up a new acronym, like we need another one.

Shut the Fuck up!!




Just kidding.

 

[Samson]

Because the war mongers took charge because the people could not control them? We aren't Germany of post WWI.

Your mistake is a false derivative analogy.

Ok, then why would "pulling fangs" of "neo-cons" be particulary "good for America?"



That's OK Jake, I actually don't expect you to support your opinion with a logical arguement.

That's OK Samson because you can't comprehend an objective argument.

13 years of war have not brought peace.

We need to stand the generals and admirals and the industries down, so we don't waste anymore of our treasure.

We can easily defend our interests at 50% of what we are spending with an effective naval and air power that can shield America and project power and punishment anywhere in the word, as well as an exceptional ground force.

Well, I can certainly see you've expended an impressive volume of your existing mental resources considering the subject.

No Doubt Secretary Hagel will be calling you any minute.

 

[Jroc]

Maybe I'm too cynical but sometimes it seems that the guys who favor the largest military spending are also the guys who like most to play keyboard tough-guy. Vicarious bully syndrome? VBS, I think I just made up a new acronym, like we need another one.

Well that post was totally useless...thanks for the contribution

 

[eagle1462010]

Maybe I'm too cynical but sometimes it seems that the guys who favor the largest military spending are also the guys who like most to play keyboard tough-guy. Vicarious bully syndrome? VBS, I think I just made up a new acronym, like we need another one.

Standard straw man quote. It's boring.

I served 10 years. You don't cut the basic services portion. That shouldn't even be on the table.

Secondly, in what other areas do the Dems want to cut..............................

NOTHING................

So cry me a river. Many times I've shown were the military could be cut without the consequences of what is about to occur. Like paying thousands to replace circuit boards for a $50 part because of violating the patent or something like that while I was in the service. We'd spend 7k on a board for a dang $20 resister. Not to mention going hard dollar on contracts to build ships, planes, and etc. Again, I've seen this with my own eyes on how builders will bill the Gov't over and over again for the same dang spaces on ships.

 

[Moonglow]

It is amazing how the Liberals go bat shit crazy over cuts to the military. You only hear them talking about spending cuts and the debt when we talk about these types of cuts.

Quite frankly I wonder if they get that tingling sensation in their legs when this happens...........

Riddle me this.............Which President recently caused cuts to the Commissaries used by the military in the U.S.................They are now closed on Sundays thanks to the Sequester deal that was the brain child of this President. He spends his butt off but can't think of anything else to cut but services to the troops themselves............

Which President also caused their co-pays to go up................

Which President wouldn't give the cost of living raises to the retirees.....................


I believe cuts are needed everywhere. Not just in the military. And the across the board buts just on the numbers is utter BS. There are plenty of other areas to cut instead of operational troops. While they have instigated a Freeze on hiring Civilian employees, why didn't they start there instead of actual troops....................

Recently the GAO released 200 Billion in wasteful spending..........Yet we have a Gov't that would rather shut down Commissaries on Sundays to save 1.4 BILLION a year, than look at this other wasteful spending instead.

Frankly, you Liberals Disgust me.

Don't even attempt to bring up sequester. I watched every one of the Republicans on the Senate Armed Forces committee give a sweet little speech that they were disappointed that the sequester was going into affect and then they turned and walked right out the door. Those Senators right there could have done something to stop the sequester and they turned their backs on the armed forces and walked out so don't give me any "Obama's sequester" because when it came down to the line the Republicans did it to the military, not the Democrats.

BS. That was Obama's plan. He stated that other cuts would be found to avoid the sequester cuts. He also said that he would not ask for more taxes instead.

And as usual HE LIED...............

They cut the commissaries back then to the point of shutting down the commissaries stateside on Sundays.....................

And now they propose to cut 1 BILLION of 1.4 BILLION to them now. This is a basic service to the military, and it's total BS...........

Perhaps one day you sorry jokers will look at the waste and fraud spending that could be cut instead of cutting basic services of those who put their butts on the line for this country.

Reagan cut military services and the GI bill when I was in..

 

[RandomVariable]

It is amazing how the Liberals go bat shit crazy over cuts to the military. You only hear them talking about spending cuts and the debt when we talk about these types of cuts.

Quite frankly I wonder if they get that tingling sensation in their legs when this happens...........

Riddle me this.............Which President recently caused cuts to the Commissaries used by the military in the U.S.................They are now closed on Sundays thanks to the Sequester deal that was the brain child of this President. He spends his butt off but can't think of anything else to cut but services to the troops themselves............

Which President also caused their co-pays to go up................

Which President wouldn't give the cost of living raises to the retirees.....................


I believe cuts are needed everywhere. Not just in the military. And the across the board buts just on the numbers is utter BS. There are plenty of other areas to cut instead of operational troops. While they have instigated a Freeze on hiring Civilian employees, why didn't they start there instead of actual troops....................

Recently the GAO released 200 Billion in wasteful spending..........Yet we have a Gov't that would rather shut down Commissaries on Sundays to save 1.4 BILLION a year, than look at this other wasteful spending instead.

Frankly, you Liberals Disgust me.

Don't even attempt to bring up sequester. I watched every one of the Republicans on the Senate Armed Forces committee give a sweet little speech that they were disappointed that the sequester was going into affect and then they turned and walked right out the door. Those Senators right there could have done something to stop the sequester and they turned their backs on the armed forces and walked out so don't give me any "Obama's sequester" because when it came down to the line the Republicans did it to the military, not the Democrats.

BS. That was Obama's plan. He stated that other cuts would be found to avoid the sequester cuts. He also said that he would not ask for more taxes instead.

And as usual HE LIED...............

They cut the commissaries back then to the point of shutting down the commissaries stateside on Sundays.....................

And now they propose to cut 1 BILLION of 1.4 BILLION to them now. This is a basic service to the military, and it's total BS...........

Perhaps one day you sorry jokers will look at the waste and fraud spending that could be cut instead of cutting basic services of those who put their butts on the line for this country.

So those hours and hours and hours of hearings and testimony and documents read is nothing compared to your "it was Obama's plan." Republicans could have stopped sequester from hitting our defense department and IC and they walked away. F 'em.

 

[Moonglow]

Maybe I'm too cynical but sometimes it seems that the guys who favor the largest military spending are also the guys who like most to play keyboard tough-guy. Vicarious bully syndrome? VBS, I think I just made up a new acronym, like we need another one.

Standard straw man quote. It's boring.

I served 10 years. You don't cut the basic services portion. That shouldn't even be on the table.

Secondly, in what other areas do the Dems want to cut..............................

NOTHING................

So cry me a river. Many times I've shown were the military could be cut without the consequences of what is about to occur. Like paying thousands to replace circuit boards for a $50 part because of violating the patent or something like that while I was in the service. We'd spend 7k on a board for a dang $20 resister. Not to mention going hard dollar on contracts to build ships, planes, and etc. Again, I've seen this with my own eyes on how builders will bill the Gov't over and over again for the same dang spaces on ships.

They started that during Reagan, we were taught to soldier and replace components, but at the regular duty station we were told to toss the boards, rather than repair.

 

[eagle1462010]

Don't even attempt to bring up sequester. I watched every one of the Republicans on the Senate Armed Forces committee give a sweet little speech that they were disappointed that the sequester was going into affect and then they turned and walked right out the door. Those Senators right there could have done something to stop the sequester and they turned their backs on the armed forces and walked out so don't give me any "Obama's sequester" because when it came down to the line the Republicans did it to the military, not the Democrats.

BS. That was Obama's plan. He stated that other cuts would be found to avoid the sequester cuts. He also said that he would not ask for more taxes instead.

And as usual HE LIED...............

They cut the commissaries back then to the point of shutting down the commissaries stateside on Sundays.....................

And now they propose to cut 1 BILLION of 1.4 BILLION to them now. This is a basic service to the military, and it's total BS...........

Perhaps one day you sorry jokers will look at the waste and fraud spending that could be cut instead of cutting basic services of those who put their butts on the line for this country.

Reagan cut military services and the GI bill when I was in..

I served under Reagan. I remember the pay increases. I also remember I served on Rust Buckets that we desperately needing to be replaced. The first ship I served on hadn't had an overhaul in 10 years and was literally falling apart.

All of the Presidents after Reagan benefited from the upgrade to the military. People in the military were also getting food stamps back then.....Real great huh............

 

[eagle1462010]

Maybe I'm too cynical but sometimes it seems that the guys who favor the largest military spending are also the guys who like most to play keyboard tough-guy. Vicarious bully syndrome? VBS, I think I just made up a new acronym, like we need another one.

Standard straw man quote. It's boring.

I served 10 years. You don't cut the basic services portion. That shouldn't even be on the table.

Secondly, in what other areas do the Dems want to cut..............................

NOTHING................

So cry me a river. Many times I've shown were the military could be cut without the consequences of what is about to occur. Like paying thousands to replace circuit boards for a $50 part because of violating the patent or something like that while I was in the service. We'd spend 7k on a board for a dang $20 resister. Not to mention going hard dollar on contracts to build ships, planes, and etc. Again, I've seen this with my own eyes on how builders will bill the Gov't over and over again for the same dang spaces on ships.

They started that during Reagan, we were taught to soldier and replace components, but at the regular duty station we were told to toss the boards, rather than repair.

I repaired them anyway. To hell with the rules. I wasn't going to spend 7k for a new board for $25 in parts. But the rule applied and you know it, and probably still applies today.

I helped build Navy ships after getting out, and the way the contracts are worded they are allowed to charge for the same job over and over again. In another yard we jacked up prices to USNS ships using the same parts on commercial vessels at a 4th of the cost. The Gov't allows this BS.

 

[eagle1462010]

Don't even attempt to bring up sequester. I watched every one of the Republicans on the Senate Armed Forces committee give a sweet little speech that they were disappointed that the sequester was going into affect and then they turned and walked right out the door. Those Senators right there could have done something to stop the sequester and they turned their backs on the armed forces and walked out so don't give me any "Obama's sequester" because when it came down to the line the Republicans did it to the military, not the Democrats.

BS. That was Obama's plan. He stated that other cuts would be found to avoid the sequester cuts. He also said that he would not ask for more taxes instead.

And as usual HE LIED...............

They cut the commissaries back then to the point of shutting down the commissaries stateside on Sundays.....................

And now they propose to cut 1 BILLION of 1.4 BILLION to them now. This is a basic service to the military, and it's total BS...........

Perhaps one day you sorry jokers will look at the waste and fraud spending that could be cut instead of cutting basic services of those who put their butts on the line for this country.

So those hours and hours and hours of hearings and testimony and documents read is nothing compared to your "it was Obama's plan." Republicans could have stopped sequester from hitting our defense department and IC and they walked away. F 'em.

BS..........Your side wanted Taxes in return. The original deal was to find alternate cuts with no tax increases as substitution. Your side lied, PERIOD.

Your side wants to cut the military but refuses to cut anywhere else.

 

[RandomVariable]

Maybe I'm too cynical but sometimes it seems that the guys who favor the largest military spending are also the guys who like most to play keyboard tough-guy. Vicarious bully syndrome? VBS, I think I just made up a new acronym, like we need another one.

Standard straw man quote. It's boring.

I served 10 years. You don't cut the basic services portion. That shouldn't even be on the table.

Secondly, in what other areas do the Dems want to cut..............................

NOTHING................

So cry me a river. Many times I've shown were the military could be cut without the consequences of what is about to occur. Like paying thousands to replace circuit boards for a $50 part because of violating the patent or something like that while I was in the service. We'd spend 7k on a board for a dang $20 resister. Not to mention going hard dollar on contracts to build ships, planes, and etc. Again, I've seen this with my own eyes on how builders will bill the Gov't over and over again for the same dang spaces on ships.

They started that during Reagan, we were taught to soldier and replace components, but at the regular duty station we were told to toss the boards, rather than repair.

There is the Defense Department and then there are defense contractors. They don't necessarily have the same priorities.

 

[eagle1462010]

Coburn to Congress: Look in the mirror for the cause of waste - FederalNewsRadio.com

"The problem is us," he said. "We are not acting on the information we have."

GAO found last April that agencies spent $95 billion on 162 areas of duplication across government, including 679 renewable energy programs from 23 different agencies that costs $15 billion to run.

Coburn even praised President Barack Obama for including many of the programs GAO highlighted in his budget request. But he said Congress continues to ignore the overlap.

The White House tried to address program duplication in 2012 with an 11-agency pilotto compare similar programs and determine if they can be merged. The Office of Management and Budget used the pilot to create a governmentwide inventory of programs, which it published on Performance.gov in May.

On top of the GAO report, Coburn also released his annual waste book last month that highlighted about 100 projects worth about $30 billion.

Year after year these reports come out and are completely ignored. Yet we'll wipe out the commissary budgets for our troops.

Some people simply don't have their priorities in order.

 

[Moonglow]

BS. That was Obama's plan. He stated that other cuts would be found to avoid the sequester cuts. He also said that he would not ask for more taxes instead.

And as usual HE LIED...............

They cut the commissaries back then to the point of shutting down the commissaries stateside on Sundays.....................

And now they propose to cut 1 BILLION of 1.4 BILLION to them now. This is a basic service to the military, and it's total BS...........

Perhaps one day you sorry jokers will look at the waste and fraud spending that could be cut instead of cutting basic services of those who put their butts on the line for this country.

Reagan cut military services and the GI bill when I was in..

I served under Reagan. I remember the pay increases. I also remember I served on Rust Buckets that we desperately needing to be replaced. The first ship I served on hadn't had an overhaul in 10 years and was literally falling apart.

All of the Presidents after Reagan benefited from the upgrade to the military. People in the military were also getting food stamps back then.....Real great huh............

We couldn't get shelf stocked parts to repair the TOW missile system..

I didn't get foodstamps.It depends on what state you apply in. I made too much. 875 a month to support a wife and two kids...Texas said I earned 50 bucks to much to qualify. So I moonlighted..

 

[SmedlyButler]

The Military usually has the last say in the cuts when budgetary reality calls for reduction. Hopefully, (and I think this is basically what the Joint Chiefs are saying) the assymetrical battle field and small or non-state threat will be met with a smaller but smarter, faster, more maneuverable, adaptative Force. The Littoral Combat Ship is a good example of this philosophy. It's the Navies answer to the modern battlefield threat of shallower, closer to shore swarm type craft used by pirate-type or small state actors.[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p038a3oGaAc]Independence (Littoral Combat Ship) LCS-2 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Moonglow]

Standard straw man quote. It's boring.

I served 10 years. You don't cut the basic services portion. That shouldn't even be on the table.

Secondly, in what other areas do the Dems want to cut..............................

NOTHING................

So cry me a river. Many times I've shown were the military could be cut without the consequences of what is about to occur. Like paying thousands to replace circuit boards for a $50 part because of violating the patent or something like that while I was in the service. We'd spend 7k on a board for a dang $20 resister. Not to mention going hard dollar on contracts to build ships, planes, and etc. Again, I've seen this with my own eyes on how builders will bill the Gov't over and over again for the same dang spaces on ships.

They started that during Reagan, we were taught to soldier and replace components, but at the regular duty station we were told to toss the boards, rather than repair.

There is the Defense Department and then there are defense contractors. They don't necessarily have the same priorities.

When I got out I work as an electronic tech for industries. We were able to replace parts, but later on the manufactures of the electronic circuit boards would conceal the values of the components to keep us from knowing what to replace..and didn't want to give us schematics to work with.

 

[RandomVariable]

BS. That was Obama's plan. He stated that other cuts would be found to avoid the sequester cuts. He also said that he would not ask for more taxes instead.

And as usual HE LIED...............

They cut the commissaries back then to the point of shutting down the commissaries stateside on Sundays.....................

And now they propose to cut 1 BILLION of 1.4 BILLION to them now. This is a basic service to the military, and it's total BS...........

Perhaps one day you sorry jokers will look at the waste and fraud spending that could be cut instead of cutting basic services of those who put their butts on the line for this country.

So those hours and hours and hours of hearings and testimony and documents read is nothing compared to your "it was Obama's plan." Republicans could have stopped sequester from hitting our defense department and IC and they walked away. F 'em.

BS..........Your side wanted Taxes in return. The original deal was to find alternate cuts with no tax increases as substitution. Your side lied, PERIOD.

Your side wants to cut the military but refuses to cut anywhere else.

They did the exact same thing the did with the unemployment insurance extension benefits. First it was a pay for. That was offered. So next it was revenue neutral. That was offered. Then they wanted something else. Finally they just said, "Well, we just are not going to vote for it no matter what although we are not going to exactly say that." They have done it over and over and no one will call them on it. What they don't want they walk away from. They walked away from avoiding the sequestration and I watched it on live TV, C-SPAN to be exact.

 

[SmedlyButler]

Maybe I'm too cynical but sometimes it seems that the guys who favor the largest military spending are also the guys who like most to play keyboard tough-guy. Vicarious bully syndrome? VBS, I think I just made up a new acronym, like we need another one.

Well that post was totally useless...thanks for the contribution

That was meant for a particular poster. Misdirected, sorry. I realize it says nothing substantive to add to the OP.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

BS. That was Obama's plan. He stated that other cuts would be found to avoid the sequester cuts. He also said that he would not ask for more taxes instead.

And as usual HE LIED...............

They cut the commissaries back then to the point of shutting down the commissaries stateside on Sundays.....................

And now they propose to cut 1 BILLION of 1.4 BILLION to them now. This is a basic service to the military, and it's total BS...........

Perhaps one day you sorry jokers will look at the waste and fraud spending that could be cut instead of cutting basic services of those who put their butts on the line for this country.

Reagan cut military services and the GI bill when I was in..

I served under Reagan. I remember the pay increases. I also remember I served on Rust Buckets that we desperately needing to be replaced. The first ship I served on hadn't had an overhaul in 10 years and was literally falling apart.

All of the Presidents after Reagan benefited from the upgrade to the military. People in the military were also getting food stamps back then.....Real great huh............

A military man started things rolling, not Reagan:

Jimmy Carter: Federal Civilian and Military Pay Increases Announcement on the President's Proposal.

Jimmy Carter love him or hate him: http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB1125.pdf

 

[RandomVariable]

They started that during Reagan, we were taught to soldier and replace components, but at the regular duty station we were told to toss the boards, rather than repair.

There is the Defense Department and then there are defense contractors. They don't necessarily have the same priorities.

When I got out I work as an electronic tech for industries. We were able to replace parts, but later on the manufactures of the electronic circuit boards would conceal the values of the components to keep us from knowing what to replace..and didn't want to give us schematics to work with.

When I was working for one of the big defense contractors we had to bill all our hours. The project I was suppose to be on hadn't actually started yet so I had to bill something. They always said use the Minuteman missile system. That must have been the most expensive piece of hardware the military history.