Privatize % of SS ?

[M14 Shooter]

Which also backs up my original point. S.S. is funded by its own revenue, the payroll tax. The fact that it has its money invested in Treasuries, supposedly the safest investment in the world, is only a problem if the U.S. government defaults.

Where will the money to repay these 'trust fund t-bills' come from?

From general tax revenues, where pretty much all the money comes from when bonds mature.

I see.
So, cashing in all these 'trust fund t-bills' will simply add to the deficit, and thus, the debt.

 

[DaGoose]

You are the criminal mentality, bodie, not the victim. You will collect your SS.

No. I expect I'll be means tested out. I figured out the demographics of this ponzi scheme when I was a teenager. I'm saving and investing to self-fund my own retirement.

See there? Me too!! I most likely have much more than most (including you) between my savings, investments, real estate, pension and 401k. But I'm not about to fault those less fortunate than I that will depend on SS to fund most, if not all of their retirement.

As I have already posted SS is keeping MILLIONS of seniors out of poverty. Now that may not mean anything to you (perhaps your parents/grandparents are dead?) but it means everything to those millions of people.

Social Security was created for a REASON. And it is supported by 90% of people under 30.

In a national phone survey of 1,200 adults by the GfK Roper consulting firm (margin of error: plus or minus 3 percent), 90 percent of those ages 18 to 29 deemed Social Security important. In fact, almost half of them agreed with the statement that it is “one of the very most important government programs,” an opinion held by nearly 80 percent of those over 65.

Younger Americans Support Social Security, Poll Finds - NYTimes.com

So piss and moan all you want. Social Security isn't going anywhere.

Again.......THIS is why SS will be around for a long, long time.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The stock market exists to move money around. Someone makes it, someone else loses it.

Most Americans have no experience with the stock market. Getting them to "invest" is truly throwing the sheep to the wolves. And what happens to sheep? They get sheared.

You're just another sheep who has been convinced that the government knows how to handle your money better than you.

 

[MSNY]

Social Security is as solvent as the US government is; that's where SS money is invested. Social Security has its own revenue source, the payroll tax. Anything wrong with Social Security is not the fault of Social Security itself.

The goverment is broke to the tune of trillions of dollars.
Our childrens children will keep paying what Barry the WH
clown has done in just two years.

How many people does that payroll tax need to support just one receipient?
They call that a pyramid scheme in the corporate world and people are jailed
for it.

Social Security history Frequently Asked Questions

Is it true that Social Security was originally just a retirement program?

A: Yes. Under the 1935 law, what we now think of as Social Security only paid retirement benefits to the primary worker. A 1939 change in the law added survivors benefits and benefits for the retiree's spouse and children. In 1956 disability benefits were added.

This is cruel joke played on people that should just have learned to save
for themselves.

How many people support one person on social security? - Yahoo! Answers

3 to 1 back in 2008, what is it now?

This will bankrupt America, it needs to end.

So you all believe the U.S. government will ultimately default on its debt obligations? That the full faith and credit of the U.S. will ultimately fail to be so??

...AND you want Social Security money put into the stock market??!!! Do you have ANY idea where the stock market would go if the U.S. defaulted on its debt??

lolol

Nope, people should be responsible for there own money, and keep
there fingers out of mine.

I'm a selfish taxpayer, I dont want to share.

The goverment has screwed with our money, and lost most of it
to give a ways and entitlements.

 

[FA_Q2]

point to any 45 year period where sound investments made a worse return than SS. Particularly since I am going to be getting much reduced benefits if I get any at all.
Explain the currrent worth % of a 60 year old person whose investment of the last thirty years would be today compared to 1 July 2007.

If he was investing since 1965 he would be quite well off. What he was worth 3 years ago is meaningless. It is a matter of what the value of his inputs as compared to his outputs. As a matter of fact, he should be even better off as you move more and more investments out of the stock market and into investments that are secure in the short term. This is where you completely fail, you want to look at the stock market as a matter of a few years. In that frame, stocks are extremely volatile. In the long term they are very secure. Note that you also fail entirely to realize that investment != stocks. There are TONS of investment instruments. As pointed out far earlier, I would have a simple CD as an option as well and those VASTLY outperform SS. I also pointed out how this investment process should be structured. Stocks are even better in the long term. You also fail to realize that stock have recovered and, while you would be out from withdrawals if you were in the market at the time, the majority of your retirement should still be available and raise in value. All you have demonstrated is your complete lack of understanding in investment instruments.

You are arguing a case that I have not presented and being willfully ignorant about investment processes. Try again.

I have no idea what you're talking about, which means we finally have something in common because obviously you have no idea what you're talking about.

The payroll tax is real money, paid by real Americans. It is not an 'accounting entry'.

You really are dense.

There is no SS Trust Fund stuffed with that Real Money Paid by Americans.

The trust fund is a bunch of accounting entries which are basically IOUs to be paid by future taxpayers (who have no say in the matter and didn't agree to this appalling arrangement).

The Trust Fund money is invested in Treasuries. Of course the Treasury note is an I.O.U. That's what bonds are...

...I cannot believe you don't know that. Oh wait, I can believe that.

You are being disingenuous here. The fact is that money was spent already. It was spent on the rising cost of SS as the baby boomers retire and the workforce shrinks. That money was then taken from that intended purpose and spent elsewhere. In its place were given bonds. In essence, the government owed itself money. If that was reflected in the deficit it would make more sense though still idiotic. Instead, we decided to ignore it. Now you are making dumb claims like SS will not add to the deficit as it pulls money from a trust fund that does not exist. The bonds are meaningless, basically like drawing up a paper that says I owe myself X dollars and because I owe that money to myself it is not really a debt.
I guess I can take money out of my savings account, replace it with an IOU, buy a cheeseburger and claim that I got the cheeseburger for free because I still have that 'money' in my account.

 

[kaz]

Nope, people should be responsible for there own money, and keep
there fingers out of mine.

I'm a selfish taxpayer, I dont want to share

Don't you like how you wanting to keep the money you earned is "selfish" but their wanting to take your money that you earned makes them "generous?"

 

[MSNY]

Nope, people should be responsible for there own money, and keep
there fingers out of mine.

I'm a selfish taxpayer, I dont want to share

Don't you like how you wanting to keep the money you earned is "selfish" but their wanting to take your money that you earned makes them "generous?"

It is THE problem!

It's BROKE(N) people!

aKa...the SS fund or the BS broke fund.
aKa...Redistribution of my Income for their enjoyment.
aKa...Socilalism and not the American way.

My apple pie is mine, they can get their own PIE.
I'd prefer DC, give me back all my money NOW, I can do better with it.
Paying it out to freddy the free loader is screwy. People go to jail
for hold ups usually.

Damn goverment is a free-kin disaster..

 

[JakeStarkey]

What FA_Q2, who did exactly what I wanted (to explain clearly that it requires someone who clearly knows what he is doing, a very small % of the population), fails to acknowledge is that the great # of Americans do not understand the stock and investment world at all, but they do know that finance counsels and investment strategy brokers are far more interested in their own children going to private schools than the kids of their clients.

FA_Q2, this is why 90% of Americans 30 and under want nothing to do with your thinking. They are afraid of aggressive private investors who will take them for a ride if they have to manage portfolios.

You, kiddo, are stuck with SS.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Where will the money to repay these 'trust fund t-bills' come from?

From general tax revenues, where pretty much all the money comes from when bonds mature.

I see.
So, cashing in all these 'trust fund t-bills' will simply add to the deficit, and thus, the debt.

When the government borrows money, it has to pay it back. The government is borrowing money FROM Social Security, just like it borrows money from China and from American investors, from people who buy US Savings Bonds.

I keep asking, who SHOULD Social Security loan money to, if not the U.S. government?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Nope, people should be responsible for there own money, and keep
there fingers out of mine.

I'm a selfish taxpayer, I dont want to share

Don't you like how you wanting to keep the money you earned is "selfish" but their wanting to take your money that you earned makes them "generous?"

It is THE problem!

It's BROKE(N) people!

aKa...the SS fund or the BS broke fund.
aKa...Redistribution of my Income for their enjoyment.
aKa...Socilalism and not the American way.

My apple pie is mine, they can get their own PIE.
I'd prefer DC, give me back all my money NOW, I can do better with it.
Paying it out to freddy the free loader is screwy. People go to jail
for hold ups usually.

Damn goverment is a free-kin disaster..

Social Security is not broke, unless you believe that every U.S. government creditor is broke.

 

[DaGoose]

Nope, people should be responsible for there own money, and keep
there fingers out of mine.

I'm a selfish taxpayer, I dont want to share

Don't you like how you wanting to keep the money you earned is "selfish" but their wanting to take your money that you earned makes them "generous?"

Nope, people should be responsible for there own money, and keep
there fingers out of mine.

I'm a selfish taxpayer, I dont want to share

Don't you like how you wanting to keep the money you earned is "selfish" but their wanting to take your money that you earned makes them "generous?"

It is THE problem!

It's BROKE(N) people!

aKa...the SS fund or the BS broke fund.
aKa...Redistribution of my Income for their enjoyment.
aKa...Socilalism and not the American way.

My apple pie is mine, they can get their own PIE.
I'd prefer DC, give me back all my money NOW, I can do better with it.
Paying it out to freddy the free loader is screwy. People go to jail
for hold ups usually.

Damn goverment is a free-kin disaster..

And if your investments didn't pan out we would then be supporting you on welfare. Here are the facts......

1) Social Security is here to stay, especially when you see that 90% of people under 30 feel it's an important program (and shows that they are more intelligent than some on this board).

2) Many, if not most, people would choose NOT to invest the 6.2% (yes, that's all it is, NOT the 15% some on this board would lead you to believe).

3) We have the benefit of hindsight as to what life was like before SS. It was really ugly people.

4) SS is currently keeping MILLIONS of seniors above the poverty level.

5) SS can pay out 75% of the benefits in 2084 and that's if we do nothing at all.

6) People can talk about investing in the stock market all they want but there'a always risk involved. Besides, didn't we all get to keep our nice, fat tax cut (thanks President Obama)? Why aren't you out investing THAT?

 

[kaz]

Social Security is not broke, unless you believe that every U.S. government creditor is broke.

That's funny. So if you owe yourself money, you have an asset just like if someone else owes you money. So if I issue myself an IOU for one million dollars, I'm a millioinaire even though my net worth is zero. The liberal koolaid. Honestly my friend, if I could actually believe I would, it would make life so much easier. I'm just unfortunately not a moron. Alas.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Kaz is drinking reactionary koolaid. Bub,you are not government and how you run your paper IOUs have nothing do with government. Have the government go back to putting the SS taxes in one fund, and the solvency problem is over almost immediately. Kaz, you are talking to only the loony far right. You are dealing with the right, center, and left who know what they are talking about.

 

[kaz]

Kaz is drinking reactionary koolaid. Bub,you are not government and how you run your paper IOUs have nothing do with government. Have the government go back to putting the SS taxes in one fund, and the solvency problem is over almost immediately. Kaz, you are talking to only the loony far right. You are dealing with the right, center, and left who know what they are talking about.

The comment made was the social security isn't broke. Social security has no money, it lives on taxpayers. Today's taxpayers, the gimme baby boomer generation saved nothing.

As for we have to "go back" to putting the SS taxes in one fund, you can't go back to something you never did. Not a dime was ever saved for social security.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Stupid argument. All governments are "broke" by your revisionist definition. No, SS is not broken, only your arguments, kaz.

Reaganism was not the solution, it made corporatism the problem.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Social Security is not broke, unless you believe that every U.S. government creditor is broke.

That's funny. So if you owe yourself money, you have an asset just like if someone else owes you money. So if I issue myself an IOU for one million dollars, I'm a millioinaire even though my net worth is zero. The liberal koolaid. Honestly my friend, if I could actually believe I would, it would make life so much easier. I'm just unfortunately not a moron. Alas.

My husband once wrote me a check for a million dollars as a token of his love and a promise to take care of me and give me my dreams. I still have that check. Guess I'm a millionaire, and didn't even know it!

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are lucky in love and a check to prove it.

 

[FA_Q2]

What FA_Q2, who did exactly what I wanted (to explain clearly that it requires someone who clearly knows what he is doing, a very small % of the population), fails to acknowledge is that the great # of Americans do not understand the stock and investment world at all, but they do know that finance counsels and investment strategy brokers are far more interested in their own children going to private schools than the kids of their clients.

FA_Q2, this is why 90% of Americans 30 and under want nothing to do with your thinking. They are afraid of aggressive private investors who will take them for a ride if they have to manage portfolios.

You, kiddo, are stuck with SS.

No, 90 percent of Americans do not want SS to continue in its current form, those are the number of people that believe it is an important program. I would call it an important program and that is precisely why I want it fixed. Those that are like you and do not want to see any portion privatized do so because they have bought into the grate lie that the government will do it better and that the free market will take it all away. Something that you and others have failed to demonstrate has EVER happened over the investment time period that we are talking about.

Go ahead and fear those investors but your boogeyman is a silly one. Investing can be complicated which is EXACTLY why I have not advocated a completely open option for SS. It does need to be a managed account. There are tons of options that you can go with and many mutual funds, bond markets and even savings accounts that can be included in a comprehensive investment plan where you would have basic control. Apparently you have completely failed to understand my position. I invite you to go back and read my posts. It is not that difficult.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am not afraid of the bogeyman because SS is not going to be privatized at all in our lifetimes. The numbers of younger Americans who are opposed simply grow larger with each year, and they will vote anyone who works for it. The second Bush said he was going to spend political capital on it was the moment that neo-cons' and corporationists' traction began slipping. The momentum is gone for our lifetimes.

 

[FA_Q2]

I am not afraid of the bogeyman because SS is not going to be privatized at all in our lifetimes. The numbers of younger Americans who are opposed simply grow larger with each year, and they will vote anyone who works for it. The second Bush said he was going to spend political capital on it was the moment that neo-cons' and corporationists' traction began slipping. The momentum is gone for our lifetimes.

At least until the programs insolvency. At that time people will begin to wake up. As payments decrease (even the libs were looking at reducing payments by 25%) and costs to live increase SS will quickly become a useless program and will need to be redone to continue achieving its goals.