Rangel's Tragic End

[boedicca]

This is funny. Newt Gingrich did far worse..where were Republicans on that guy? What about Tom Delay? They wanted to change to rules for him.

But ol' Charlie? Who won a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart in Korea? They want him "to resign" or be "expelled".

This is the man you guys want to expell.

Rangel then enlisted in the United States Army, and served from 1948 to 1952.[10] During the Korean War, he was a member of the all-black 503rd Field Artillery Battalion in the 2nd Infantry Division.[11]

In late November 1950, this unit was caught up in heavy fighting in North Korea as part of the U.N. forces retreat from the Yalu River. In the Battle of Kunu-ri, Rangel was part of a vehicle column that was trapped and attacked by the Chinese Army.[11] In the subzero cold, Rangel was injured by shrapnel from a Chinese shell.[12] Some U.S. soldiers were being taken prisoner, but others looked to Rangel, who though only a private first class had a reputation for leadership in the unit. Rangel led some 40 men from his unit, during three days of freezing weather, out of the Chinese encirclement. Nearly half of the battalion was killed in the overall battle.[13]

Rangel was awarded a Purple Heart for his wounds and the Bronze Star with Valor for his actions in the face of death.[14] His Army unit was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation,[15] the Republic of Korea Presidential Unit Citation, and three battle stars.[14] In 2000, Rangel reflected with CBS News that

Charles B. Rangel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's a real life blood and guts American hero..not an actor.

If only he'd acted as honorably in Congress, he wouldn't be in the mess he's in.

And that is what makes him a tragic character. At one point he displayed some honorable values, and then he sunk into corruption. Nobody should rejoice over this.

Hold him accountable, yes.

Enjoy the spectacle of his humiliation, I'd rather not.

 

[Sallow]

You can forget your rescue mission. You're lost.

"Mission Accomplished"?

Give it a rest.

"Declaring" victory doesn't mean you win.

Didn't say that now did I?

You have failed to make your case is more accurate.

And what case is that?

That there should be an equal application of the law and congressional procedures when it comes to Charlie Rangel?

Yeah..I guess not.

You guys want rules to be applied differently depending on who they get applied too.

That's fine..but it's not the system we live under. Or at least it's not the system we should live under, IMHO.

 

[The T]

This is funny. Newt Gingrich did far worse..where were Republicans on that guy? What about Tom Delay? They wanted to change to rules for him.

But ol' Charlie? Who won a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart in Korea? They want him "to resign" or be "expelled".

This is the man you guys want to expell.



That's a real life blood and guts American hero..not an actor.

If only he'd acted as honorably in Congress, he wouldn't be in the mess he's in.

And that is what makes him a tragic character. At one point he displayed some honorable values, and then he sunk into corruption. Nobody should rejoice over this.

Hold him accountable, yes.

Enjoy the spectacle of his humiliation, I'd rather not.

It's all about accountability. I expect it no matter what. The people should demand it.

 

[boedicca]

Not at all.

Taxes are very complicated..especially if you actually own stuff. I can't figure out. I give my taxes to H&R block to get done. I have stocks..a co-op, crap..it's seriously complicated.

Rangel gave his taxes to an accountant..who probably tried all sorts of tricks..and Rangel got a check.

Did he do wrong? Well he should have been paying attention. So sure.

I think it was appropriate for him to step down from Ways and Means..but until he was charged..congress jumped the gun.

Rangel was CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE, for Pete's Sake.

He oversaw TAXATION. If he can't understand the tax code he imposed on the rest of us, then SHAME ON HIM.

 

[daveman]

Pretty much. Seems to be the norm with him, though.

Odd, considering he's such a witty, erudite independent thinker.

That's too funny.

And infantile.

You want to tear apart what I really post...fine. I'm good with that.

But's it's just silly to make shit up.

Moon tore up what you posted. You weren't too good with that.

 

[daveman]

I think the law should apply to everyone equally.

Does that include those who have committed wrongdoing, but you insist haven't?

 

[boedicca]

As much as I loathe Rangel's ethics and record in the House, I do feel sorry for him. An octogenarian war vet sobbing on the floor of the House as he is censured is tragic in the classic sense. He self-inflicted this pain. It's shameful that nobody close to him was able to convince him to resign and end his career with a few shreds of remaining dignity.

Charlie Rangel's tragic last act: On the road to censure, he's cheapening his legacy

You're such a fake ass. You're probably upset that he isn resigning.

Right backatcha, you sad litttle moron.

I am sad he didn't resign and spare himself and the country this pathetic spectacle. Why on earth you'd want him to go through this says a lot about you.

 

[daveman]

If only he'd acted as honorably in Congress, he wouldn't be in the mess he's in.

And that is what makes him a tragic character. At one point he displayed some honorable values, and then he sunk into corruption. Nobody should rejoice over this.

Hold him accountable, yes.

Enjoy the spectacle of his humiliation, I'd rather not.

 

[boedicca]

Which post was that?

Really? You really can't remember your own post from a couple pages back?

This is funny. Newt Gingrich did far worse..where were Republicans on that guy? What about Tom Delay? They wanted to change to rules for him.

But ol' Charlie? Who won a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart in Korea? They want him "to resign" or be "expelled".

This is the man you guys want to expell.



That's a real life blood and guts American hero..not an actor.

And it says "life time exemption" where?

Really.

Lets lay out the facts here.

Rangel got caught up in accounting errors. Real estate is the most complex and ridiculous part of the tax code. I know that first hand. I don't even pretend to understand it..I leave it to accountants. And the reason I use H&R block is they guarantee their work. They fuck up..they pay..not me.

That's what happened with Rangel..and the use of stationary for charitable causes..not to enrich himself..as in Newt Gingrich's case.

This is the first time..a congress person..has been tossed into a hearing with no charges pending..or not caught red handed in violating the rules of congress..like having sex with pages. First.

Rangel's got an extremely long and, on the whole, very positive career in Congress. I personally like the guy..he's in the mold of old salts like Daniel Moynihan or Hugh Carey. He's extremely pragmatic and works well with others.

He's already stepped down from a committee he really cared about. And he's been drug through the mud.

I'm not putting out there..that if someone is charged or found to be involved in wrong doing they be absolved.

What I am putting out there..is that the system of justice practiced in the country calls for precendence, protocol and proportionality.

The personal attacks against Rangel in this thread are really to much. As are the remedies for his "crimes".

If Accounting and Taxes are complicated, then you must think that Ken Lay and Jeffrey Skilling should never have been prosecuted.

 

[boedicca]

Again..do you think he was doing his own taxes?

And..I am not saying that nothing should happen to him.

I don't think that he used H&R Block, I'm thinking a CPA. Garbage in, garbage out..... Sheesh

And exactly how do you think the IRS will or might handle this?

How do you think the IRS would handle it for a person not in Congress?

And careful now..I've know several people who had some errors with their filings..

Ask Willie Nelson or Wesley Snipe.

 

[DiveCon]

Not at all.

Taxes are very complicated..especially if you actually own stuff. I can't figure out. I give my taxes to H&R block to get done. I have stocks..a co-op, crap..it's seriously complicated.

Rangel gave his taxes to an accountant..who probably tried all sorts of tricks..and Rangel got a check.

Did he do wrong? Well he should have been paying attention. So sure.

I think it was appropriate for him to step down from Ways and Means..but until he was charged..congress jumped the gun.

Rangel was CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE, for Pete's Sake.

He oversaw TAXATION. If he can't understand the tax code he imposed on the rest of us, then SHAME ON HIM.

exactly, HE was responsible for WRITING the tax codes
if HE doesnt understand them, why the hell was he part of making them?

 

[Sallow]

I think the law should apply to everyone equally.

Does that include those who have committed wrongdoing, but you insist haven't?

And..

I posted THAT where?

But has he even been charged?

Are you part of the Cardassian Empire where when you are charged with a crime the onus is to prove innocence and not the other way around?

 

[boedicca]

Did you want to see Newt in Jail? How about Tom Delay?

Hey lets go up the food chain. George W. Bush committed a major crime in the Harken stock deal. You want him in the pokey too? He made much more cash then Rangel did on the deal.

Just wondering if this sense of justice is bi-partisan.

And you do know that most of the time the IRS just fines you for this sort of stuff. Right?

You want that to change? Or just in Rangel's case.

Oh, I get it.

NEEWWWWWWTTTTTT is to the Dems in Congress

what

BOOOOSSSSHHHHHHH is to Obama.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Re-read the post..

Then get back to me.

I think the law should apply to everyone equally.

I seriously doubt you do.

But it must be comforting to you to have a healthy fantasy life.

 

[Moon]

It's not in the post. I don't have to clarify shit.

You are making accusations you simply can't back up.

And it's patently stupid for me to address this any further. Unless you find a quote, verbatim, that I said anything LIKE that.

It's basically a falsehood.

I'll accept this as your admission that you don't wish to clarify your earlier post, and are willing to let it stand as is. That's fine, and I feel free to interpret it as to what I believe your intent was based on that post. You had a chance to expound on your transparent attempt to excuse Rangel based on his military record, but chose not to.

Since you can't find and verbatim quote..and you chose to continue in this absurdity..

And since you have trouble reading subsequent posts..I will sum it up for you in a nutshell.

Precedence, protocol and proportionality in relation to proper procedure..not absolution.

That work?

If not..my apologies...English is the only human language I speak.

The others are for machines..and you can't speak them.

I've posted it twice already, and as I said before, I'm not playing your game. I and others here know you were trying to use Rangel's military record to excuse what he did. It's just too bad you can't own up to it.

As far as precedence, etc., you may want to take that up with the House Democrats, since they're the ones that pursued the ethics charges and the conviction. Frankly, I don't care because IMO they're always too easy on the crooks.

 

[Sallow]

I don't think that he used H&R Block, I'm thinking a CPA. Garbage in, garbage out..... Sheesh

And exactly how do you think the IRS will or might handle this?

How do you think the IRS would handle it for a person not in Congress?

And careful now..I've know several people who had some errors with their filings..

Ask Willie Nelson or Wesley Snipe.

Snipes didn't bother to file income tax returns and tried to leave the country.

Nelson tried to hide income and settled out of court.

 

[Sallow]

I'll accept this as your admission that you don't wish to clarify your earlier post, and are willing to let it stand as is. That's fine, and I feel free to interpret it as to what I believe your intent was based on that post. You had a chance to expound on your transparent attempt to excuse Rangel based on his military record, but chose not to.

Since you can't find and verbatim quote..and you chose to continue in this absurdity..

And since you have trouble reading subsequent posts..I will sum it up for you in a nutshell.

Precedence, protocol and proportionality in relation to proper procedure..not absolution.

That work?

If not..my apologies...English is the only human language I speak.

The others are for machines..and you can't speak them.

I've posted it twice already, and as I said before, I'm not playing your game. I and others here know you were trying to use Rangel's military record to excuse what he did. It's just too bad you can't own up to it.

As far as precedence, etc., you may want to take that up with the House Democrats, since they're the ones that pursued the ethics charges and the conviction. Frankly, I don't care because IMO they're always too easy on the crooks.

Okay..even with a direct clarification..it doesn't sink in.

Done here. This is the sort of mentality that feeds the birther or 9/11 conspiracies movements.

 

[boedicca]

Sallow would benefit from looking up the definition of "Tragic Hero" and then contrasting Rangel's military record with his subsequent actions.

 

[boedicca]

And exactly how do you think the IRS will or might handle this?

How do you think the IRS would handle it for a person not in Congress?

And careful now..I've know several people who had some errors with their filings..

Ask Willie Nelson or Wesley Snipe.

Snipes didn't bother to file income tax returns and tried to leave the country.

Nelson tried to hide income and settled out of court.

And Rangel didn't bother to declare income, violated the rent control laws in NYC, violated the rules of the House by using government resources for campaign financing and on and on...

Sorry bub, you can't find any justification for what he did.

 

[Samson]

Just wondering if this sense of justice is bi-partisan.

Why?

There are 5 D's and 5 R's on the House Ethics Committee. It is chaired by Zoe Lofgren (D).

 

[daveman]

Really? You really can't remember your own post from a couple pages back?

And it says "life time exemption" where?

Really.

Lets lay out the facts here.

Rangel got caught up in accounting errors. Real estate is the most complex and ridiculous part of the tax code. I know that first hand. I don't even pretend to understand it..I leave it to accountants. And the reason I use H&R block is they guarantee their work. They fuck up..they pay..not me.

That's what happened with Rangel..and the use of stationary for charitable causes..not to enrich himself..as in Newt Gingrich's case.

This is the first time..a congress person..has been tossed into a hearing with no charges pending..or not caught red handed in violating the rules of congress..like having sex with pages. First.

Rangel's got an extremely long and, on the whole, very positive career in Congress. I personally like the guy..he's in the mold of old salts like Daniel Moynihan or Hugh Carey. He's extremely pragmatic and works well with others.

He's already stepped down from a committee he really cared about. And he's been drug through the mud.

I'm not putting out there..that if someone is charged or found to be involved in wrong doing they be absolved.

What I am putting out there..is that the system of justice practiced in the country calls for precendence, protocol and proportionality.

The personal attacks against Rangel in this thread are really to much. As are the remedies for his "crimes".

If Accounting and Taxes are complicated, then you must think that Ken Lay and Jeffrey Skilling should never have been prosecuted.

Depends. Are they Democrats or Republicans?