Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent.

[bodecea]

However. That's a different topic.
A really important one...but different.

Perhaps we should just make all sex outside of legal marriage illegal. That should take care of a lot of this confusion.

How about we make the legal age 18....sounds good to me. Think we can get the Red Southern States to agree to up their consent ages?

 

[martybegan]

No. The one-in-four figure is about molestation. NOT peers. It's about power, and control, and a child who doesn't even grasp that saying no is an option.

No, it was about abuse, which according to the study could also include two underage people canoodling around because neither can give consent.

Read the link.

So...that would raise that stats for girls AND boys, right?


I wonder how many of those pre-adult sexual encounters you want to use to excuse the high number of girls sexually abused before they turn 18?

THAT would inflate the stats, however, as noted in the study, underreporting of actual of age people abusing young people would DEFLATE the number.

It doesnt matter what side you are on with regards to this study, and if you like it or don't, the lack of precsion on the numbers makes it useless as a reference.

 

[bodecea]

No, it was about abuse, which according to the study could also include two underage people canoodling around because neither can give consent.

Read the link.

So...that would raise that stats for girls AND boys, right?


I wonder how many of those pre-adult sexual encounters you want to use to excuse the high number of girls sexually abused before they turn 18?

THAT would inflate the stats, however, as noted in the study, underreporting of actual of age people abusing young people would DEFLATE the number.

It doesnt matter what side you are on with regards to this study, and if you like it or don't, the lack of precsion on the numbers makes it useless as a reference.

So...what are YOUR stats?

 

[koshergrl]

However. That's a different topic.
A really important one...but different.

Perhaps we should just make all sex outside of legal marriage illegal. That should take care of a lot of this confusion.

How about we make the legal age 18....sounds good to me. Think we can get the Red Southern States to agree to up their consent ages?

What would happen to the presumption that all school kids are engaging in perfectly normal sex amongst themselves and others?

This poses a problem I would think.

 

[Flopper]

The Gay Platform in 1972:

State:

[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]3. Repeal all state laws prohibiting solicitation for private voluntary sexual liaisons; and laws prohibiting prostitution, both male and female.

[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]7. Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent.

Federal:

[/FONT]
6. Federal encouragement and support for sex education courses, prepared and taught by gay women and men, presenting homosexuality as a valid, healthy preference and lifestyle as a viable alternative to heterosexuality.
7. Appropriate executive orders, regulations and legislation banning the compiling, maintenance and dissemination of information on an individual's sexual preferences, behavior, and social and political activities for dossiers and data banks.
8. Federal funding of aid programs of gay men's and women's organizations designed to alleviate the problems encountered by Gay women and men which are engendered by an oppressive sexist society.


The 1972 Gay Rights Platform Platform created at the National Coalition of Gay Organizations Convention held in Chicago in 1972

This is really interesting. I spent some time searching for a "National Coalition of Gay Organizations" and the 1972 convention. I couldn't find it listed in any of the lists of gay organization and there doesn't seem to be any record of this convention or the agenda except from the web site referenced and anti-gay web sites.

The referenced web site is supposedly a gay web site, yet it displays as a center piece with no comments the 1972 gay agenda which is a rallying point for dozens anti-gay web sites. Furthermore under the web site historical calendar, there is no reference to the 1972 convention or the agenda.

If we are to regard this document as anything other than a fabrication, then there should be evidence that the organization that produced it existed other in the minds of Christian anti-gay groups and it actually represented gay and lesbian organizations.

 

[koshergrl]

They spoke at the 1972 Democratic convention:

"A coalition of gay rights groups at the convention "drew up a proposed platform provision that called for, among other things, repealing laws against homosexuals marrying". The provision was rejected by a vote of 54–34. Afterwards, however, two delegates, Jim Foster and Madeline Davis (the first openly lesbian delegate to a major national political convention), spoke publicly on its behalf.[12]"


1972 Democratic National Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Who knows what they call themselves now...my guess is the members have moved out and started new organizations, much like the PP leaders branch out to do things like head up the CDC and Guttmacher's...in this case, one of the people who proposed removing age limits on homosexual sex landed a cush job with Ted Kennedy, and became a founding member of San Fran's Health Authority in 1985.

Before he died of aids.


"In 1972, after the Toklas club delivered one-third of the signatures needed to secure George McGovern the first position on the California Democratic primary ballot, Foster was given a prime time television spot speaking at the 1972 Democratic National Convention.[7] He and fellow delegate Madeline Davis were the first openly LGBT people ever to address a national party convention.[8] He called upon the Democratic Party to add a gay rights plank to the party platform,[9] saying:

"We do not come to you begging your understanding or pleading your tolerance. We come to you affirming our pride in our lifestyle, affirming the validity of our right to seek and to maintain meaningful emotional relationships and affirming our right to participate in the life of this country on an equal basis with every citizen."[8]"



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Foster_(activist)

"
In 1980, Foster served as the coordinator for northern California for Ted Kennedy's presidential campaign.[13] When Kennedy's campaign was struggling financially, Foster kept his local campaign office open using his own funds.[14] Kennedy credited Foster for delivering his victory in the 1980 California primary.[15]
Foster was a founding member of the San Francisco Health Commission in 1985.[16] In 1989 he was hired by pharmaceutical company Lymphomed as a consultant.
Foster died of an AIDS-related illness at his San Francisco home on October 31, 1990.[2]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Foster_(activist)
​

 

[bodecea]

The Gay Platform in 1972:

State:

[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]3. Repeal all state laws prohibiting solicitation for private voluntary sexual liaisons; and laws prohibiting prostitution, both male and female.

[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]7. Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent.

Federal:

[/FONT]
6. Federal encouragement and support for sex education courses, prepared and taught by gay women and men, presenting homosexuality as a valid, healthy preference and lifestyle as a viable alternative to heterosexuality.
7. Appropriate executive orders, regulations and legislation banning the compiling, maintenance and dissemination of information on an individual's sexual preferences, behavior, and social and political activities for dossiers and data banks.
8. Federal funding of aid programs of gay men's and women's organizations designed to alleviate the problems encountered by Gay women and men which are engendered by an oppressive sexist society.


The 1972 Gay Rights Platform Platform created at the National Coalition of Gay Organizations Convention held in Chicago in 1972

This is really interesting. I spent some time searching for a "National Coalition of Gay Organizations" and the 1972 convention. I couldn't find it listed in any of the lists of gay organization and there doesn't seem to be any record of this convention or the agenda except from the web site referenced and anti-gay web sites.

The referenced web site is supposedly a gay web site, yet it displays as a center piece with no comments the 1972 gay agenda which is a rallying point for dozens anti-gay web sites. Furthermore under the web site historical calendar, there is no reference to the 1972 convention or the agenda.

If we are to regard this document as anything other than a fabrication, then there should be evidence that the organization that produced it existed other in the minds of Christian anti-gay groups and it actually represented gay and lesbian organizations.

Now.....THAT'S interesting.

 

[koshergrl]

Which is why I addressed it.
It was presented at the 1972 DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION by Jim Foster and Madeline Davis.

Jimmy got a cush job with Teddy K., and ended up founding the San Francisco Health Commission in 1985.

Maddy likewise went on to great things, including teaching Lesbian Studies at university. It's wonderful how our universities give jobs to people who propose sexual consent ages should be completely removed, isn't it?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Why did they want to repeal sexual consent age laws, do you suppose?

And why is the HIV infection rate among 13 year old boys increasing, do you suppose?

As for number 1: My guess is that in 1972 it was not okay to admit being homosexual and those men (and women) who lived a gay lifestyle remained in the closet and did not want to experience public ridicule. So, only those who belonged to NAMBLA or other illicit organizations were willing to go public with their proclivities, and thus come out in public.

As for number 2: I had no idea that the HIV infection rate for 13 year old boys was increasing. Do you have a source which details more demographics? Without any additional info I suspect if this is true that cut backs to social services and public education are the most likely cause for such an increase.

 

[BDBoop]

No, its because if the girl was 13 and the boy was 15, since they both can't consent it would be considered "abuse" under some definitions. My issue is soley of throwing numbers around like "1 in 4" girls are abused and "1 in 6" boys are abused when the study itself says it can be way fucking off. If you are going to use numbers, they have to be solid numbers.

No. The one-in-four figure is about molestation. NOT peers. It's about power, and control, and a child who doesn't even grasp that saying no is an option.

No, it was about abuse, which according to the study could also include two underage people canoodling around because neither can give consent.

Read the link.

Then you're in the wrong study. The one in four stat is correct.

 

[koshergrl]

15/13 isn't "peers" when it comes to most age of consent laws, and those instances do make it into the studies as "molestation". Particularly when it's incest.

 

[Wry Catcher]

In CA the age of consent is 18, for both boys and girls. Until 10 years ago (or so) only boys were prosecuted for Statutory Rape, today both are charged (i.e. both a 15 yo boy and the 15 yo girl). Of course child molestation plays into the equation when the age spread is greater (i.e. 14 year old boy/girl and 8 year old boy/girl).

 

[Flopper]

They spoke at the 1972 Democratic convention:

"A coalition of gay rights groups at the convention "drew up a proposed platform provision that called for, among other things, repealing laws against homosexuals marrying". The provision was rejected by a vote of 54–34. Afterwards, however, two delegates, Jim Foster and Madeline Davis (the first openly lesbian delegate to a major national political convention), spoke publicly on its behalf.[12]"


1972 Democratic National Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, there was a gay lesbian platform provision proposed at the 1972 Democratic Convention but there is no evidence here that this provision was the "1972 Gay Lesbian Agenda" you presented.

Who knows what they call themselves now...my guess is the members have moved out and started new organizations, much like the PP leaders branch out to do things like head up the CDC and Guttmacher's...in this case, one of the people who proposed removing age limits on homosexual sex landed a cush job with Ted Kennedy, and became a founding member of San Fran's Health Authority in 1985.

Before he died of aids.

You're welcome to your opinion.

"In 1972, after the Toklas club delivered one-third of the signatures needed to secure George McGovern the first position on the California Democratic primary ballot, Foster was given a prime time television spot speaking at the 1972 Democratic National Convention.[7] He and fellow delegate Madeline Davis were the first openly LGBT people ever to address a national party convention.[8] He called upon the Democratic Party to add a gay rights plank to the party platform,[9] saying:

"We do not come to you begging your understanding or pleading your tolerance. We come to you affirming our pride in our lifestyle, affirming the validity of our right to seek and to maintain meaningful emotional relationships and affirming our right to participate in the life of this country on an equal basis with every citizen."[8]"



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Foster_(activist)

"
In 1980, Foster served as the coordinator for northern California for Ted Kennedy's presidential campaign.[13] When Kennedy's campaign was struggling financially, Foster kept his local campaign office open using his own funds.[14] Kennedy credited Foster for delivering his victory in the 1980 California primary.[15]
Foster was a founding member of the San Francisco Health Commission in 1985.[16] In 1989 he was hired by pharmaceutical company Lymphomed as a consultant.
Foster died of an AIDS-related illness at his San Francisco home on October 31, 1990.[2]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Foster_(activist)
​

Yes, gays and lesbians supported McGovern but you still have not presented any evidence that the Gay Lesbian Agenda you present was created by the National Coalition of Gay Organizations. I don't see any evidence that the organization even existed much less representing changes that gays want at that time.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Folks, don't dish what you can't take.

Show me where I have put words in people's mouths that is obviously a lie.

Until then cut with the white knight crap.

Tough, sparky. I said be able to take what one dishes. So you admit you can't take what you dish, yes?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The fact is that homosexuals and heterosexuals abuse children.

The fact is the primary source being used by kg has been pointed out to be faulty.

The fact is as adults we should notify the authorities of any adult or older teen who believe is acting illegally toward children and teens.

The fact is that hetero-fascism and homo-fascism are unacceptable in modern-day America.

 

[koshergrl]

Folks, don't dish what you can't take.

Show me where I have put words in people's mouths that is obviously a lie.

Until then cut with the white knight crap.

Tough, sparky. I said be able to take what one dishes. So you admit you can't take what you dish, yes?

This is relevant to the topic how, exactly?

 

[koshergrl]

The fact is that homosexuals and heterosexuals abuse children.

The fact is the primary source being used by kg has been pointed out to be faulty.

The fact is as adults we should notify the authorities of any adult or older teen who believe is acting illegally toward children and teens.

The fact is that hetero-fascism and homo-fascism are unacceptable in modern-day America.

It isn't hetero-fascism to study the causes of homosexuality, and it isn't hetero-fascism to look into the reasons that the HIV infection rate for BOYS who are 13 year old continues to climb.

Not GIRLS. And these BOYS aren't being infected by HIV infected HETEROS, as we all know..or by HIV infected PEDOPHILES, who victimize much younger children.

In other words, reality and facts are not fascism.

Though the homo lobby likes to pretend they are, because that is the only way they can effectively stop the spread of information.

What a shame they aren't anywhere near as succesfful at stopping the spread of disease among the 13 year old boys that are being increasingly victimized and infected.

 

[Flopper]

"The 1972 Gay Rights Platform contains among its demands the repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent, arguing that children as young as 8 years of age have the right to decide whether they they can enter into sexual relationships with adults," according to one pro-N piece.

A copy of the disputed platform--provided by the office of Rep. William E. Dannemeyer (R-Fullerton)--calls for "the repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent" but makes no mention of 8-year-olds being allowed to have sex with adults.

Further, officials at several nationally based gay groups said they are unfamiliar with the rights platform mentioned and that, despite the charges of critics, no one in the established gay community has ever called for the legalization of sex with children.

"To use something that some fringe political extremists in 1972 may have thought was an agenda item and compare it to today is completely misleading," said Robert Bray of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force in Washington. "That issue has never been discussed by anyone in the gay movement."

Gay 'Facts' in Mailers Disputed : Politics: A close look at claims made by anti-homosexual forces in a debate over the Irvine Human Rights Ordinance shows some distortion of facts and misstatements. - Los Angeles Times



If you have to go back to 1972 to some fringe group to "prove" some point about a "gay agenda", then you really have no case.


Show us that is the aim of the gay community at large today.

The Gay Lesbian community today bears little resemble to that of the 60's and early 70's. There were no openly gay congressmen, mayors, or governors. Very few gay celebrities were openly gay. Being openly gay often resulted in lost of job, being ostracized from mainstream society, and and even arrest which explains why the gay community was composed mostly of social outcasts and political extremists.

Political gay fringe groups of 70's are certainly not representative of gays today.

 

[BDBoop]

No, its because if the girl was 13 and the boy was 15, since they both can't consent it would be considered "abuse" under some definitions. My issue is soley of throwing numbers around like "1 in 4" girls are abused and "1 in 6" boys are abused when the study itself says it can be way fucking off. If you are going to use numbers, they have to be solid numbers.

No. The one-in-four figure is about molestation. NOT peers. It's about power, and control, and a child who doesn't even grasp that saying no is an option.

No, it was about abuse, which according to the study could also include two underage people canoodling around because neither can give consent.

Read the link.

No. I don't know why it is so very important to you that that figure, which has been proven across the boards over and over again, be made into something else entirely.

But you can walk that road alone.

 

[koshergrl]

The Gay/Lesbian community today was CREATED by the Gay/Lesbian community of the 70s. The CDC, Guttmacher's, PP, the APA and the universities were SEEDED with those *fringe* characters.

They were not political *fringe* groups then, nor are they now. These are the people who drive the progressive and homo bloc.