Republican drive to end social programs UNCONSTITUTIONAL

[Liberty]

My GOD....I am in shock...utter shock right now. If people only understood freedom and liberty....the country and possibly the world would be so prosperous. I like to think that those who are misinformed, and indoctrinated into this socialist mantra truly do have a good heart. if you believe you really have the best interests at heart, you HAVE to go out there and learn for yourself the simple fact that at this moment in time, you are advocating tyranny and slavery in the guise of utopia. You are being lied to by those who are also being lied to. If you choose not to educate yourself, you willfully accept the role as a pawn who is choosing to be a slave. It's so depressing to see, really.

 

[saveliberty]

My GOD....I am in shock...utter shock right now. If people only understood freedom and liberty....the country and possibly the world would be so prosperous. I like to think that those who are misinformed, and indoctrinated into this socialist mantra truly do have a good heart. if you believe you really have the best interests at heart, you HAVE to go out there and learn for yourself the simple fact that at this moment in time, you are advocating tyranny and slavery in the guise of utopia. You are being lied to by those who are also being lied to. If you choose not to educate yourself, you willfully accept the role as a pawn who is choosing to be a slave. It's so depressing to see, really.

The dark side kool aid is strong.

 

[Meister]

Don't take my words out of context idiot, I wasn't blaming Bush for anything, I simply stated the truth that if Obama took over leadership of an economy that wasn't in a recession and turned it into what it is now then you would have a point that what he's done is a disaster. What are your suggestions as to what he should do because I hear you doing a lot a heckling from the peanut gallery but no real suggestions except for what the GOP says.

With Obama's job killing policies, he would have drove it into a recession with high unemployment, and creating a higher deficit.
With Obama's policies, he is not reducing unemployment, nor is he reducing the deficit. He would have had to pay the unions back in one fashion or another, which would equate to spending our taxes.

Well the Bush tax cuts for the rich isn't going to help the economy nor the deficit either, independent research confirms this. Just like Bush cannot be totally blamed for the state of this country today the same holds for Obama, idiots like you who are mad are just looking to blame someone.

Idiots like you do not see the obvious, Bass. It was both parties that got us where we were. Now your messiah is taking it to a new level and blaming it on Bush. Don't be such a doofus

 

[Oddball]

Americans love Socialism, dude. That's why we have a system of social security.

Its "popularity" is largely due to the fact that you pretty much cannot opt out.

Give Americans a choice as to whether they'd keep their money to spend, save and/or invest as they see fit, and let's see how that turkey of a Ponzi scheme works out.

Three-quarters of those from 18 to 29 strongly agreed that while they may not need the program when they retire, a time that probably seems infinitely far away, “I definitely want to know that it’s there, just in case I do.” Sixty-two percent said they will rely on Social Security payments in some way. By a wide margin, they opposed cutting benefits to reduce the federal deficit.

Source?

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

Its "popularity" is largely due to the fact that you pretty much cannot opt out.

Give Americans a choice as to whether they'd keep their money to spend, save and/or invest as they see fit, and let's see how that turkey of a Ponzi scheme works out.

Three-quarters of those from 18 to 29 strongly agreed that while they may not need the program when they retire, a time that probably seems infinitely far away, “I definitely want to know that it’s there, just in case I do.” Sixty-two percent said they will rely on Social Security payments in some way. By a wide margin, they opposed cutting benefits to reduce the federal deficit.

Source?

More than 80 percent said that even if they believed they could do better investing on their own, they saw their Social Security payments as contributing to “the common good.”

Among all non-retired adults in the survey, about half say they’re willing to pay higher payroll taxes now to ensure that Social Security remains available for today’s older people and for themselves when they retire, a proportion that varies little by age.

 

[Oddball]

That's not sourcing your plagiarized opinions, dickweed.

Put up or shut up.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

My GOD....I am in shock...utter shock right now. If people only understood freedom and liberty....the country and possibly the world would be so prosperous. I like to think that those who are misinformed, and indoctrinated into this socialist mantra truly do have a good heart. if you believe you really have the best interests at heart, you HAVE to go out there and learn for yourself the simple fact that at this moment in time, you are advocating tyranny and slavery in the guise of utopia. You are being lied to by those who are also being lied to. If you choose not to educate yourself, you willfully accept the role as a pawn who is choosing to be a slave. It's so depressing to see, really.

How does a system of social security make you a slave, dude?

 

[Liberty]

My GOD....I am in shock...utter shock right now. If people only understood freedom and liberty....the country and possibly the world would be so prosperous. I like to think that those who are misinformed, and indoctrinated into this socialist mantra truly do have a good heart. if you believe you really have the best interests at heart, you HAVE to go out there and learn for yourself the simple fact that at this moment in time, you are advocating tyranny and slavery in the guise of utopia. You are being lied to by those who are also being lied to. If you choose not to educate yourself, you willfully accept the role as a pawn who is choosing to be a slave. It's so depressing to see, really.

How does a system of social security make you a slave, dude?

if one is FORCED paying into it against their will...gee I dunno.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

people are offered something at the expense of others, when they are in 'need.'

Point out a specific program you object to where people are offered something at the expense of others, when they are in need.

Many people would rather invest for themselves instead of being forced into a program that is horrid on returns since it also pays for non-contributors

More than 80 percent said that even if they believed they could do better investing on their own, they saw their Social Security payments as contributing to “the common good.”

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

My GOD....I am in shock...utter shock right now. If people only understood freedom and liberty....the country and possibly the world would be so prosperous. I like to think that those who are misinformed, and indoctrinated into this socialist mantra truly do have a good heart. if you believe you really have the best interests at heart, you HAVE to go out there and learn for yourself the simple fact that at this moment in time, you are advocating tyranny and slavery in the guise of utopia. You are being lied to by those who are also being lied to. If you choose not to educate yourself, you willfully accept the role as a pawn who is choosing to be a slave. It's so depressing to see, really.

How does a system of social security make you a slave, dude?

if one is FORCED paying into it against their will...gee I dunno.

Americans love being slaves, dude. That's why you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of repealing the Social Slavery System.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

Ehhh.. no... The lazy who want something at the expense of others, love socialism

Americans love Socialism, dude. That's why we have a system of social security.

people who want something for nothing or something at the expense of someone else generally don't voluntarily choose to give it up.

How many Americans do you believe want something for nothing or something at the expense of someone else?

welfare queens will continue to vote for the politicians who keep giving them things at the expense of others.

How many welfare queens are there in the U. S?

those who actually work for a living or enjoy the freedom to do what they want with their earnings generally do not support socialism..

Polls show that those who actually work for a living are overwhelmingly in favor of our Socialist System of Social Security.

you hyper-wingers would like to see the rolls of entitlement junkies expanded,

Why do you consider the people receiving social security benefits to be junkies?

continue to demonize 'the rich'

Most Americans don't consider a progress income tax system to be a demonetization of the rich.

the general populace of this country loves freedoms, not a socialist agenda

Nope. According to you, Americans love slavery because they love our system of Socialist Security.

 

[Liberty]

How does a system of social security make you a slave, dude?

if one is FORCED paying into it against their will...gee I dunno.

Americans love being slaves, dude. That's why you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of repealing the Social Slavery System.

....ok?

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

You don't fix the problems with ever expanding government

The problem of railroads charging prices and using practices that were monopolistic and unfair was solved by expanding the power of government to regulate railroads.

 

[Liberty]

You don't fix the problems with ever expanding government

The problem of railroads charging prices and using practices that were monopolistic and unfair was solved by expanding the power of government to regulate railroads.

"Having considered the bill this day presented to me entitled 'An act to set apart and pledge certain funds for internal improvements,' and which sets apart and pledges funds 'for constructing roads and canals, and improving the navigation of water courses' . . . I am constrained by the insuperable difficulty I feel in reconciling the bill with the Constitution of the United States to return it with that objection to the House of Representatives. The legislative powers vested in Congress are specified and enumerated in the eighth section of the first article of the Constitution, and it does not appear that the power proposed to be exercised by the bill is among the enumerated powers."

- James Madison, March 3, 1817. Veto of federal transportation spending.

 

[Oddball]

You don't fix the problems with ever expanding government

The problem of railroads charging prices and using practices that were monopolistic and unfair was solved by expanding the power of government to regulate railroads.

Who granted the railroads their rights-of-way, professor?

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

You don't fix the problems with ever expanding taxation

The problem of financing a huge military was solved by expanding taxation.

more strides toward a socialism or socialist inspired agenda is not going to fix it

It solved the problem of abusive child labor.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

what has to be done to fix it is to start chopping away at the damage big government types on BOTH sides that has been built up over the decades and decades of corruption

A big nation with big problems needs a big government, dude.

 

[Liberty]

what has to be done to fix it is to start chopping away at the damage big government types on BOTH sides that has been built up over the decades and decades of corruption

A big nation with big problems needs a big government, dude.

wrong. Why don't you have faith in the american people to prosper without a leviathan nanny government? Why do you advocate tyranny?

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

I just had an epiphany.

In all the chaff and flares being kicked off to try and say that the founding fathers meant for the government nanny state and IS constitutional, I hit upon a small twist of the language that makes a big difference.

"Provide for the Common Defense, promote the General Welfare and Establish justice and liberty for ourselves and our posterity."

Look at the first section: "Provide for the Common Defense". What does that mean? To provide means that they will be the source of defense of the Common populace It is a duty of government to defend us against threats foreign and domestic. Pretty clear I would say.

Now the second step. "PROMOTE the General Welfare". Look at that! The word Promote! Does it mean it will be the source of General Welfare? No. Does it guarantee a standard of living? No. Does it give permission for the government to supply the general welfare? No.

What does the word Promote mean? It means to ENCOURAGE OTHERS to IMPROVEMENT. To ALLOW the citizenry to succeed on their own. To do what is best for the welfare of the citizens but not being it's source, just an enabler of your own efforts.

So if the founding fathers and documents meant to have people dependent on the national government, why did they not write "Provide for the common defense and General Welfare"? Why did they change to Promote?

Because the intent was to never become subjects of a government again, but rather to have government subject to the citizens. Communism doesn't have citizens. It has subjects. Those who exist at the will and desire of the state serving the state. This is contrary to everything our founding fathers envisioned. Doing things only government can do like protect against those who wish to take our freedom and liberty away...

... for ourselves and our posterity.

This was an everlasting pledge to the nation.

Edit::::: Apparently I'm not the only one to have this epiphany today.

I think your right on with your assessment there Fitz.

I just wonder how the SC would rule on the constitutionality of Welfare and Medicaide if it ever came before them. ??

Who know. Perhaps one day we'll find out.

The people would lynch the Supreme Court if they repealed Medicare from the bench.

 

[Charles_Main]

Certainly. That comes from the Preamble, that begins with WE THE PEOPLE, and they duties we have to other people in our society. We The People, of the United States of America. In order to form a more perfect union. Establish justice, and ensure domestic tranqulity.......

This is our duty as citizens of this country to all the We the People. Domestic refers to tranquility in your home and in your society of We the People. It is more than just a duty to your family, but to the Union, towards a perfect Union, and if it isn't right, it is your duty as part of society to make it right. Justice isn't to you alone, but to We The People.

A good example might be, when a war comes up, do you leave home to defend only your family and only your families freedoms? Maybe you are too old to go. What then? Does someone else go for you to ensure domestic tranquility in your home and society? So you can see, the clause is about We The People, helping one another for the betterment of society.

You are so far off target I really do not know where to begin. To force a law on 65 percent of Americans is not insuring domestic Tranquility it creates unrest and anger

Geeze dude, somebody had to go fight the wars to ensure domestic tranquility, and some had to stay home and pay for it, but you don't need to get mad about it. We are all in the same boat here, and everybody is rowing.

Wrong as of the 2009 Tax year only 53% of Working Americans were rowing anymore. The other 47% Paid NO FEDERAL income tax at all.