Republican drive to end social programs UNCONSTITUTIONAL

I think Davy Crockett said it best.

One day in the House of Representatives a bill was taken up appropriating money for the benefit of a widow of a distinguished naval officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made in its support. The Speaker was just about to put the question when Crockett arose:

"Mr. Speaker--I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, and as much sympathy for the sufferings of the living, if suffering there be, as any man in this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead or our sympathy for a part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has not the power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right to appropriate a dollar of the public money. Some eloquent appeals have been made to us upon the ground that it is a debt due the deceased. Mr. Speaker, the deceased lived long after the close of the war; he was in office to the day of his death, and I have never heard that the government was in arrears to him.

"Every man in this House knows it is not a debt. We cannot, without the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks."

He took his seat. Nobody replied. The bill was put upon its passage, and, instead of passing unanimously, as was generally supposed, and as, no doubt, it would, but for that speech, it received but few votes, and, of course, was lost.

Not yours to give

Representative David Crockett lost the debate, dude. The House passed the bill granting welfare relief to the widow in the name of providing for the general welfare.

Bills from the Senate, of the following titles, viz.

* No. 31. An act for the relief of Noah Staley;
* No. 40. An act for the relief of John Hone and Sons, of New York;
* No. 37. An act to authorize the Secretary of the Treasury to compromise the claims of the United States against the late firm of Minturn and Champlin, and their securities;
* No. 38. An act for the relief of John Kimberlin;
* No. 45. An act for the relief of the widow and heirs of Felix St. Vrain;
* No. 32. An act for the relief of George Staley;

were severally read the third time, and passed.

Ordered, That the Clerk acquaint the Senate therewith.

Engrossed bills, of the following titles, viz.

* No. 176. An act for the relief of George Bowen;
* No. 178. An act for the relief of William K. Paulling;
* No. 179. An act for the relief of William Haslett;
* No. 180. An act for the relief of Joseph W. Wormstead, of Marblehead, master and owner of the schooner Sally, and the crew of said vessel;
* No. 184. An act to provide for the settlement of the claim of Mary O'Sullivan;
* No. 186. An act to refund to certain owners of the schooner Joseph and Mary the sum paid into the Treasury, by reason of the condemnation of said vessel;
* No. 187. An act for the relief of Samuel D. Walker;
* No. 188. An act for the relief of Alexander J. Robison;
* No. 189. An act for the benefit of the heirs at law of the representatives of William G. Christopher, deceased;
* No. 193. An act for the relief of William B. Doliber and others, owners and heirs of the crew of the schooner Mary and Hannah;
* No. 194. An act for the relief of the legal representatives of James Brown;
* No. 196. An act for the relief of Benedict Alford and Robert Brush;
* No. 197. An act for the relief of the heirs of Crocker Sampson, deceased;
* No. 199. An act for the relief of Henry Whitney;
* No. 358. An act for the relief of William O'Neale;

were severally read the third time, and passed;​


--Journal of the House of Representatives of the United States, 1833-1834
FRIDAY, March 14, 1834.​

Do you know what you posted? It was people due funds for pension in the Revelutionary war.
* No. 196. An act for the relief of Benedict Alford and Robert Brush;
the names of Benedict Alford and Robert Brush on the list of revolu- To beplsced tionary pensioners, who shall be entitled to and receive, pensions at the °“ P°“°‘°“i““· rates following:
 
With all respect welfare programs are not made constitutional by the phrase "promote the general welfare." General welfare would include such things as defense of the nation, a highway system, or say FCC to prevent chaos on the airwaves which benefit all. Welfare is not general in nature, but rather limited to a specific few. Therefore, eliminating a welfare program is not unconstitutional as you claim for the reason you say.

Thanks for playing and better luck next time.
 
I think Davy Crockett said it best.

One day in the House of Representatives a bill was taken up appropriating money for the benefit of a widow of a distinguished naval officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made in its support. The Speaker was just about to put the question when Crockett arose:

"Mr. Speaker--I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, and as much sympathy for the sufferings of the living, if suffering there be, as any man in this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead or our sympathy for a part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has not the power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right to appropriate a dollar of the public money. Some eloquent appeals have been made to us upon the ground that it is a debt due the deceased. Mr. Speaker, the deceased lived long after the close of the war; he was in office to the day of his death, and I have never heard that the government was in arrears to him.

"Every man in this House knows it is not a debt. We cannot, without the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks."

He took his seat. Nobody replied. The bill was put upon its passage, and, instead of passing unanimously, as was generally supposed, and as, no doubt, it would, but for that speech, it received but few votes, and, of course, was lost.

Not yours to give

Dipshit logic posts nothing but jokes and insults.

Point out the jokes and insults in the post you just quoted.
 
I think Davy Crockett said it best.

One day in the House of Representatives a bill was taken up appropriating money for the benefit of a widow of a distinguished naval officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made in its support. The Speaker was just about to put the question when Crockett arose:

"Mr. Speaker--I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, and as much sympathy for the sufferings of the living, if suffering there be, as any man in this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead or our sympathy for a part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has not the power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right to appropriate a dollar of the public money. Some eloquent appeals have been made to us upon the ground that it is a debt due the deceased. Mr. Speaker, the deceased lived long after the close of the war; he was in office to the day of his death, and I have never heard that the government was in arrears to him.

"Every man in this House knows it is not a debt. We cannot, without the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks."

He took his seat. Nobody replied. The bill was put upon its passage, and, instead of passing unanimously, as was generally supposed, and as, no doubt, it would, but for that speech, it received but few votes, and, of course, was lost.

Not yours to give

Dipshit logic posts nothing but jokes and insults.

Point out the jokes and insults in the post you just quoted.

He can't. The point is that Crockett was a man of honor, therefore it went over his pointy head. Honor to Statists is a joke to begin with.
 
DIPSHIT, his source is biased, my sources isn't. STFU. Troll.

Real Clear Politics is an average of all major polls. Biased? You are truly an uninformed ass Flaylo.


Hey shithead, when are you going to answer the question I asked? Afraid to get your skirt lifted?

..and just what question would that be? Why your so ignorant? Lack of education or laziness in pursuing more education I guess. I always find it entertaining when someone of obivously lower intelligence challenges me.
 
I think Davy Crockett said it best.

One day in the House of Representatives a bill was taken up appropriating money for the benefit of a widow of a distinguished naval officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made in its support. The Speaker was just about to put the question when Crockett arose:

"Mr. Speaker--I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, and as much sympathy for the sufferings of the living, if suffering there be, as any man in this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead or our sympathy for a part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has not the power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right to appropriate a dollar of the public money. Some eloquent appeals have been made to us upon the ground that it is a debt due the deceased. Mr. Speaker, the deceased lived long after the close of the war; he was in office to the day of his death, and I have never heard that the government was in arrears to him.

"Every man in this House knows it is not a debt. We cannot, without the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks."

He took his seat. Nobody replied. The bill was put upon its passage, and, instead of passing unanimously, as was generally supposed, and as, no doubt, it would, but for that speech, it received but few votes, and, of course, was lost.

Not yours to give

Representative David Crockett lost the debate, dude. The House passed the bill granting welfare relief to the widow in the name of providing for the general welfare.

Bills from the Senate, of the following titles, viz.

* No. 31. An act for the relief of Noah Staley;
* No. 40. An act for the relief of John Hone and Sons, of New York;
* No. 37. An act to authorize the Secretary of the Treasury to compromise the claims of the United States against the late firm of Minturn and Champlin, and their securities;
* No. 38. An act for the relief of John Kimberlin;
* No. 45. An act for the relief of the widow and heirs of Felix St. Vrain;
* No. 32. An act for the relief of George Staley;

were severally read the third time, and passed.

Ordered, That the Clerk acquaint the Senate therewith.

Engrossed bills, of the following titles, viz.

* No. 176. An act for the relief of George Bowen;
* No. 178. An act for the relief of William K. Paulling;
* No. 179. An act for the relief of William Haslett;
* No. 180. An act for the relief of Joseph W. Wormstead, of Marblehead, master and owner of the schooner Sally, and the crew of said vessel;
* No. 184. An act to provide for the settlement of the claim of Mary O'Sullivan;
* No. 186. An act to refund to certain owners of the schooner Joseph and Mary the sum paid into the Treasury, by reason of the condemnation of said vessel;
* No. 187. An act for the relief of Samuel D. Walker;
* No. 188. An act for the relief of Alexander J. Robison;
* No. 189. An act for the benefit of the heirs at law of the representatives of William G. Christopher, deceased;
* No. 193. An act for the relief of William B. Doliber and others, owners and heirs of the crew of the schooner Mary and Hannah;
* No. 194. An act for the relief of the legal representatives of James Brown;
* No. 196. An act for the relief of Benedict Alford and Robert Brush;
* No. 197. An act for the relief of the heirs of Crocker Sampson, deceased;
* No. 199. An act for the relief of Henry Whitney;
* No. 358. An act for the relief of William O'Neale;

were severally read the third time, and passed;​


--Journal of the House of Representatives of the United States, 1833-1834
FRIDAY, March 14, 1834.​

Do you know what you posted? It was people due funds for pension in the Revelutionary war.
* No. 196. An act for the relief of Benedict Alford and Robert Brush;
the names of Benedict Alford and Robert Brush on the list of revolu- To beplsced tionary pensioners, who shall be entitled to and receive, pensions at the °“ P°“°‘°“i““· rates following:

Gee I guess Congress did understand the Constitution back then. General Welfare meant paying war debts.
 
Representative David Crockett lost the debate, dude. The House passed the bill granting welfare relief to the widow in the name of providing for the general welfare.
Bills from the Senate, of the following titles, viz.

* No. 31. An act for the relief of Noah Staley;
* No. 40. An act for the relief of John Hone and Sons, of New York;
* No. 37. An act to authorize the Secretary of the Treasury to compromise the claims of the United States against the late firm of Minturn and Champlin, and their securities;
* No. 38. An act for the relief of John Kimberlin;
* No. 45. An act for the relief of the widow and heirs of Felix St. Vrain;
* No. 32. An act for the relief of George Staley;

were severally read the third time, and passed.

Ordered, That the Clerk acquaint the Senate therewith.

Engrossed bills, of the following titles, viz.

* No. 176. An act for the relief of George Bowen;
* No. 178. An act for the relief of William K. Paulling;
* No. 179. An act for the relief of William Haslett;
* No. 180. An act for the relief of Joseph W. Wormstead, of Marblehead, master and owner of the schooner Sally, and the crew of said vessel;
* No. 184. An act to provide for the settlement of the claim of Mary O'Sullivan;
* No. 186. An act to refund to certain owners of the schooner Joseph and Mary the sum paid into the Treasury, by reason of the condemnation of said vessel;
* No. 187. An act for the relief of Samuel D. Walker;
* No. 188. An act for the relief of Alexander J. Robison;
* No. 189. An act for the benefit of the heirs at law of the representatives of William G. Christopher, deceased;
* No. 193. An act for the relief of William B. Doliber and others, owners and heirs of the crew of the schooner Mary and Hannah;
* No. 194. An act for the relief of the legal representatives of James Brown;
* No. 196. An act for the relief of Benedict Alford and Robert Brush;
* No. 197. An act for the relief of the heirs of Crocker Sampson, deceased;
* No. 199. An act for the relief of Henry Whitney;
* No. 358. An act for the relief of William O'Neale;

were severally read the third time, and passed;

--Journal of the House of Representatives of the United States, 1833-1834
FRIDAY, March 14, 1834.

Do you know what you posted? It was people due funds for pension in the Revelutionary war.
* No. 196. An act for the relief of Benedict Alford and Robert Brush;
the names of Benedict Alford and Robert Brush on the list of revolu- To beplsced tionary pensioners, who shall be entitled to and receive, pensions at the °“ P°“°‘°“i““· rates following:

Gee I guess Congress did understand the Constitution back then. General Welfare meant paying war debts.

Among other things.
 
Representative David Crockett lost the debate, dude. The House passed the bill granting welfare relief to the widow in the name of providing for the general welfare.

Bills from the Senate, of the following titles, viz.

* No. 31. An act for the relief of Noah Staley;
* No. 40. An act for the relief of John Hone and Sons, of New York;
* No. 37. An act to authorize the Secretary of the Treasury to compromise the claims of the United States against the late firm of Minturn and Champlin, and their securities;
* No. 38. An act for the relief of John Kimberlin;
* No. 45. An act for the relief of the widow and heirs of Felix St. Vrain;
* No. 32. An act for the relief of George Staley;

were severally read the third time, and passed.

Ordered, That the Clerk acquaint the Senate therewith.

Engrossed bills, of the following titles, viz.

* No. 176. An act for the relief of George Bowen;
* No. 178. An act for the relief of William K. Paulling;
* No. 179. An act for the relief of William Haslett;
* No. 180. An act for the relief of Joseph W. Wormstead, of Marblehead, master and owner of the schooner Sally, and the crew of said vessel;
* No. 184. An act to provide for the settlement of the claim of Mary O'Sullivan;
* No. 186. An act to refund to certain owners of the schooner Joseph and Mary the sum paid into the Treasury, by reason of the condemnation of said vessel;
* No. 187. An act for the relief of Samuel D. Walker;
* No. 188. An act for the relief of Alexander J. Robison;
* No. 189. An act for the benefit of the heirs at law of the representatives of William G. Christopher, deceased;
* No. 193. An act for the relief of William B. Doliber and others, owners and heirs of the crew of the schooner Mary and Hannah;
* No. 194. An act for the relief of the legal representatives of James Brown;
* No. 196. An act for the relief of Benedict Alford and Robert Brush;
* No. 197. An act for the relief of the heirs of Crocker Sampson, deceased;
* No. 199. An act for the relief of Henry Whitney;
* No. 358. An act for the relief of William O'Neale;

were severally read the third time, and passed;​


--Journal of the House of Representatives of the United States, 1833-1834
FRIDAY, March 14, 1834.​

Do you know what you posted? It was people due funds for pension in the Revelutionary war.
* No. 196. An act for the relief of Benedict Alford and Robert Brush;
the names of Benedict Alford and Robert Brush on the list of revolu- To beplsced tionary pensioners, who shall be entitled to and receive, pensions at the °“ P°“°‘°“i““· rates following:

Gee I guess Congress did understand the Constitution back then. General Welfare meant paying war debts.

Instead of going off halfcocked people shouild read a little more into what they use as a source.:clap2:
 
Do you know what you posted? It was people due funds for pension in the Revelutionary war.

the names of Benedict Alford and Robert Brush on the list of revolu- To beplsced tionary pensioners, who shall be entitled to and receive, pensions at the °“ P°“°‘°“i““· rates following:

Gee I guess Congress did understand the Constitution back then. General Welfare meant paying war debts.

Among other things.

The Government will never learn if we keep allowing them to do as they please.
 
I think Davy Crockett said it best.

One day in the House of Representatives a bill was taken up appropriating money for the benefit of a widow of a distinguished naval officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made in its support. The Speaker was just about to put the question when Crockett arose:

"Mr. Speaker--I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, and as much sympathy for the sufferings of the living, if suffering there be, as any man in this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead or our sympathy for a part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has not the power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right to appropriate a dollar of the public money. Some eloquent appeals have been made to us upon the ground that it is a debt due the deceased. Mr. Speaker, the deceased lived long after the close of the war; he was in office to the day of his death, and I have never heard that the government was in arrears to him.

"Every man in this House knows it is not a debt. We cannot, without the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks."

He took his seat. Nobody replied. The bill was put upon its passage, and, instead of passing unanimously, as was generally supposed, and as, no doubt, it would, but for that speech, it received but few votes, and, of course, was lost.

Not yours to give

Representative David Crockett lost the debate, dude. The House passed the bill granting welfare relief to the widow in the name of providing for the general welfare.

Bills from the Senate, of the following titles, viz.

* No. 31. An act for the relief of Noah Staley;
* No. 40. An act for the relief of John Hone and Sons, of New York;
* No. 37. An act to authorize the Secretary of the Treasury to compromise the claims of the United States against the late firm of Minturn and Champlin, and their securities;
* No. 38. An act for the relief of John Kimberlin;
* No. 45. An act for the relief of the widow and heirs of Felix St. Vrain;
* No. 32. An act for the relief of George Staley;

were severally read the third time, and passed.

Ordered, That the Clerk acquaint the Senate therewith.

Engrossed bills, of the following titles, viz.

* No. 176. An act for the relief of George Bowen;
* No. 178. An act for the relief of William K. Paulling;
* No. 179. An act for the relief of William Haslett;
* No. 180. An act for the relief of Joseph W. Wormstead, of Marblehead, master and owner of the schooner Sally, and the crew of said vessel;
* No. 184. An act to provide for the settlement of the claim of Mary O'Sullivan;
* No. 186. An act to refund to certain owners of the schooner Joseph and Mary the sum paid into the Treasury, by reason of the condemnation of said vessel;
* No. 187. An act for the relief of Samuel D. Walker;
* No. 188. An act for the relief of Alexander J. Robison;
* No. 189. An act for the benefit of the heirs at law of the representatives of William G. Christopher, deceased;
* No. 193. An act for the relief of William B. Doliber and others, owners and heirs of the crew of the schooner Mary and Hannah;
* No. 194. An act for the relief of the legal representatives of James Brown;
* No. 196. An act for the relief of Benedict Alford and Robert Brush;
* No. 197. An act for the relief of the heirs of Crocker Sampson, deceased;
* No. 199. An act for the relief of Henry Whitney;
* No. 358. An act for the relief of William O'Neale;

were severally read the third time, and passed;​


--Journal of the House of Representatives of the United States, 1833-1834
FRIDAY, March 14, 1834.​

The article I cited didn't mention the widows name and since the Register of Debates (which covers Davy Crockett's first two terms in Congress from 1827-1831) and the Congressional Globe (which covers his last term in Congress from 1833-1835) do not provide verbatim transcripts of speeches made on the House floor. The only historical record that supports a similar story - the House considered a bill of relief for the family of deceased general Brown in April of 1828 and Davy Crockett is on record opposing that bill and offering personal support to the family. You can read the (very brief) summary of that in the Register of Debates here. Crockett's comments are summarized at the bottom right of the page.

Tennessee historian Ann Toplovich attributed this to an 1828 speech by Tennessee Congressman David Crockett under the influence of constituent Horatio Bunce.

So the dates do not coincide with what you presented.
 
General welfare would include such things as defense of the nation, a highway system, or say FCC to prevent chaos on the airwaves which benefit all.
What just and objective rules of construction, if any, did you apply to arrive at that conclusion?

Welfare is not general in nature, but rather limited to a specific few.
What fair and unbiased rules of interpretation, in any, did you use to determine that?
 
General welfare would include such things as defense of the nation, a highway system, or say FCC to prevent chaos on the airwaves which benefit all.
What just and objective rules of construction, if any, did you apply to arrive at that conclusion?

Welfare is not general in nature, but rather limited to a specific few.
What fair and unbiased rules of interpretation, in any, did you use to determine that?

I see you have developed new rules of construction standards. Fair and just? Seriously? Way to bring subjectivity into an objective methodology. I guess the biggest problem I have with you Micky is your inability to be honest with yourself. It saddens me you grasp at sources that for the most part disspell your position, if you read far enough into the information. There are many interesting countries that use your brand of socialism and you may find yourself happier in that environment. Consider vacationing there as a long range plan to move.
 
The only historical record that supports a similar story - the House considered a bill of relief for the family of deceased general Brown in April of 1828 and Davy Crockett is on record opposing that bill and offering personal support to the family.

The bill for the relief of Mrs. Brown, received from the Senate, passed the House on April 22, 1928, on a vote of 97 to 74, and was returned to the Senate. Crockett voted against the bill, but his side lost. The speech of the day was made by Representative Clark from New York in favor of the bill.

Here's the closing of Mr. Clark's speech.

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