Rock/brick mortar work

[DamnDude]

Ugh.
I'm a DIYer and I have come to the conclusion about bricklayers... God Bless every single one of you.
I'm doing a small scale project and have had set back after set back. Building a rock well house with a hinged roof. Not as difficult a project as many would think, but I find myself redoing portions multiple times, and I believe its a mortar mixture issue. I'm using 3 parts portland, 2 parts mortar mix and 1 part sand. Mixing well and not adding to much water, it's a gooey mess. My problem comes in as such. Large rocks on bottom are set and have set up very well, midway up the walls is where I'm running into issues with none adherence... I do a layer at a time, and allow to set over night, and start the next layer and the rocks are either loose or I may jar them loose. Even with easily handled rocks.
I've done some rock work before with the same mixture as above and had spectacular outcomes on walls I have done. Any advise would be greatly appreciate.
Thanks in advance.

 

[depotoo]

Not an expert, but sounds like too much sand. And I found this. Make sure of your mortar type-


Mortar is usually one part Portland cement, one quarter to one half part lime and two to three parts sand. Lime helps make the mixture easier to work with. If you choose to make the mortar, mix the cement, lime (not dehydrated lime) and sand completely while dry before adding water.


Mortar Types
There are several varieties of premixed mortar, which is probably the best way to go if you've never worked with mortar before. For a garden wall, mortar mix is a good choice. This is a blend of Type N masonry cement and graded sand. It has good adhesive properties and workability.
https://www.hunker.com/13424900/what-type-of-mortar-do-i-use-for-a-stacked-rock-wall

 

[Natural Citizen]

Maybe post some pics.

 

[Andylusion]

Ugh.
I'm a DIYer and I have come to the conclusion about bricklayers... God Bless every single one of you.
I'm doing a small scale project and have had set back after set back. Building a rock well house with a hinged roof. Not as difficult a project as many would think, but I find myself redoing portions multiple times, and I believe its a mortar mixture issue. I'm using 3 parts portland, 2 parts mortar mix and 1 part sand. Mixing well and not adding to much water, it's a gooey mess. My problem comes in as such. Large rocks on bottom are set and have set up very well, midway up the walls is where I'm running into issues with none adherence... I do a layer at a time, and allow to set over night, and start the next layer and the rocks are either loose or I may jar them loose. Even with easily handled rocks.
I've done some rock work before with the same mixture as above and had spectacular outcomes on walls I have done. Any advise would be greatly appreciate.
Thanks in advance.

You need a pro. I've learned just enough about bricklaying, to know I need someone who is actually qualified in bricklaying.

 

[Natural Citizen]

If your bricks are dry, that can suck the moisture out of your mortar and that'll cause a problem where they won't stick.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Not an expert, but sounds like too much sand. And I found this. Make sure of your mortar type-


Mortar is usually one part Portland cement, one quarter to one half part lime and two to three parts sand. Lime helps make the mixture easier to work with. If you choose to make the mortar, mix the cement, lime (not dehydrated lime) and sand completely while dry before adding water.


Mortar Types
There are several varieties of premixed mortar, which is probably the best way to go if you've never worked with mortar before. For a garden wall, mortar mix is a good choice. This is a blend of Type N masonry cement and graded sand. It has good adhesive properties and workability.
https://www.hunker.com/13424900/what-type-of-mortar-do-i-use-for-a-stacked-rock-wall

Doesn't that Portland stuff take around a month to dry completely? Versus around 48 hours or so for other kinds?

 

[depotoo]

Not an expert, but sounds like too much sand. And I found this. Make sure of your mortar type-


Mortar is usually one part Portland cement, one quarter to one half part lime and two to three parts sand. Lime helps make the mixture easier to work with. If you choose to make the mortar, mix the cement, lime (not dehydrated lime) and sand completely while dry before adding water.


Mortar Types
There are several varieties of premixed mortar, which is probably the best way to go if you've never worked with mortar before. For a garden wall, mortar mix is a good choice. This is a blend of Type N masonry cement and graded sand. It has good adhesive properties and workability.
https://www.hunker.com/13424900/what-type-of-mortar-do-i-use-for-a-stacked-rock-wall

Doesn't that Portland stuff take around a month to dry completely? Versus around 48 hours or so for other kinds?

It can take up to 28 days to fully cure, depending on moisture present, but should set at least within 24-48 hours. I know hubby has used quikcrete which is a portland mix for some small block walls and had luck with that, but on the stone patio went with straight portland.

 

[DamnDude]

Ugh.
I'm a DIYer and I have come to the conclusion about bricklayers... God Bless every single one of you.
I'm doing a small scale project and have had set back after set back. Building a rock well house with a hinged roof. Not as difficult a project as many would think, but I find myself redoing portions multiple times, and I believe its a mortar mixture issue. I'm using 3 parts portland, 2 parts mortar mix and 1 part sand. Mixing well and not adding to much water, it's a gooey mess. My problem comes in as such. Large rocks on bottom are set and have set up very well, midway up the walls is where I'm running into issues with none adherence... I do a layer at a time, and allow to set over night, and start the next layer and the rocks are either loose or I may jar them loose. Even with easily handled rocks.
I've done some rock work before with the same mixture as above and had spectacular outcomes on walls I have done. Any advise would be greatly appreciate.
Thanks in advance.

You need a pro. I've learned just enough about bricklaying, to know I need someone who is actually qualified in bricklaying.

FWIW, I will not be doing this for a living.. lol
I've done walls before with this mixture, beginning to wonder if it's temperature thing... it's not cold cold, but only getting to mid 50s during the day.
just a bit frustrated.

 

[HenryBHough]

Works best when the bricks are damp and with rocks when they've been well soaked in water.

Unless temperatures are below freezing when unless you can supply warmth (not heat) you should stay indoors and drink The British Stonemason's favorite: Gin - on the rocks.

 

[the other mike]

Ugh.
I'm a DIYer and I have come to the conclusion about bricklayers... God Bless every single one of you.
I'm doing a small scale project and have had set back after set back. Building a rock well house with a hinged roof. Not as difficult a project as many would think, but I find myself redoing portions multiple times, and I believe its a mortar mixture issue. I'm using 3 parts portland, 2 parts mortar mix and 1 part sand. Mixing well and not adding to much water, it's a gooey mess. My problem comes in as such. Large rocks on bottom are set and have set up very well, midway up the walls is where I'm running into issues with none adherence... I do a layer at a time, and allow to set over night, and start the next layer and the rocks are either loose or I may jar them loose. Even with easily handled rocks.
I've done some rock work before with the same mixture as above and had spectacular outcomes on walls I have done. Any advise would be greatly appreciate.
Thanks in advance.

Hire a Mexican.
( I realize that sounds bad, but it's really a compliment - they do some of best brick work around)

 

[Natural Citizen]

Works best when the bricks are damp...

Yeah, this.

Reason they arenlt sticking is because the bricks are sucking up the moisture. Whe nthey're already damp, they won't do that and they'll stick.

 

[DamnDude]

Works best when the bricks are damp...

Yeah, this.

Reason they arenlt sticking is because the bricks are sucking up the moisture. Whe nthey're already damp, they won't do that and they'll stick.

Seems there us something to this. I've gotten half a wall up and they seem to be doing better. I haven't changed the mixture ratio as yet, and with the cooler temps, I'm letting them set for a couple of days versus next day.
Thanks, I appreciate the responses.

 

[DamnDude]

Just to update.
It's been real slow going...
Had some other things to get done and the weather didn't play nice there for awhile, but it's coming along. Set stones, wait, set more stones.
I hope the pics load up.
Thanks folks.

 

[Likkmee]

1 part white and 3 parts sand. I used Bondit on the wall, after pressure cleaning, and had the stones in a wheelbarrow full of water overnight....after acid washing them

 

[DamnDude]

1 part white and 3 parts sand. I used Bondit on the wall, after pressure cleaning, and had the stones in a wheelbarrow full of water overnight....after acid washing them
View attachment 310976

That's some good looking work right there. Nicely done.

 

[Likkmee]

1 part white and 3 parts sand. I used Bondit on the wall, after pressure cleaning, and had the stones in a wheelbarrow full of water overnight....after acid washing them
View attachment 310976

That's some good looking work right there. Nicely done.

Thanks but I'm just a peon . The real credit goes to the stoner who sells stone. She's an all out artist in placing and selecting. Killer laying out marble floors and pattering slabs of wood too.

I'm "behind"her 100 %