Shinsecki

[Jarhead]

First, it needs to be understood that Shinseki was NOT the problem. The VA has been a clusterfuck since I was a kid and I'm now 70 years old. The VA has always been considered the very last resort a veteran had; and a very large percentage of vets who used the VA had no recourse (lack of any other insurance) but to go there.

Most of the employees are union and couldn't care less about the Vets they treat and are never afraid of losing their jobs. Sad but true. I have been in favor, for years, of veterans receiving care at ANY medical facility they wish but it will never happen.

Remember this: In this country we treat prisoners better than we treat our veterans. I thank God that when I retired from the Army, I stepped into a good occupation with quality insurance.

OK, well, I'll bite. First, I agree the VA's problems go back decades, and it's going to get worse, given the brain injuries from Iraq and Afghan, coupled with aging of the Vietnam generation, and political refusal to pay for it.

But, why should someone who retires from military service get lifetime care? It's one thing if they were injured, but why is it a "job benefit." Why aren't vets just treated like everybody else. We all change careers in mid-life.

Agreed. However, to qualify for care you only need to serve 180 days to become a "veteran". There are varying levels of care within the VA from 10% service connected disability to 100% service connected disability.

Why aren't vets "treated like everyone else"? Because they put their lives on hold, gave up the majority of their "rights" to defend YOURS. They wore the uniform of their country and served in the military. They spent months - years - away from their families so YOU wouldn't have to. They served in foreign countries, were shot at, wounded and killed, so YOU could sleep in a warm bed at night.

THAT'S why.

why do congress people get healthcare for life?

 

[bendog]

First, it needs to be understood that Shinseki was NOT the problem. The VA has been a clusterfuck since I was a kid and I'm now 70 years old. The VA has always been considered the very last resort a veteran had; and a very large percentage of vets who used the VA had no recourse (lack of any other insurance) but to go there.

Most of the employees are union and couldn't care less about the Vets they treat and are never afraid of losing their jobs. Sad but true. I have been in favor, for years, of veterans receiving care at ANY medical facility they wish but it will never happen.

Remember this: In this country we treat prisoners better than we treat our veterans. I thank God that when I retired from the Army, I stepped into a good occupation with quality insurance.

OK, well, I'll bite. First, I agree the VA's problems go back decades, and it's going to get worse, given the brain injuries from Iraq and Afghan, coupled with aging of the Vietnam generation, and political refusal to pay for it.

But, why should someone who retires from military service get lifetime care? It's one thing if they were injured, but why is it a "job benefit." Why aren't vets just treated like everybody else. We all change careers in mid-life.

Agreed. However, to qualify for care you only need to serve 180 days to become a "veteran". There are varying levels of care within the VA from 10% service connected disability to 100% service connected disability.

Why aren't vets "treated like everyone else"? Because they put their lives on hold, gave up the majority of their "rights" to defend YOURS. They wore the uniform of their country and served in the military. They spent months - years - away from their families so YOU wouldn't have to. They served in foreign countries, were shot at, wounded and killed, so YOU could sleep in a warm bed at night.

THAT'S why.

some have. Others took educational benefits. I'm not saying vets shouldn't get benefits. I'm asking why, assuming they didn't get the shit shot out of them, what they do requires a nanny state HC system.

And again, I love how the Iraq war cheerleaders are now so worried about the poor vets.

 

[RandallFlagg]

OK, well, I'll bite. First, I agree the VA's problems go back decades, and it's going to get worse, given the brain injuries from Iraq and Afghan, coupled with aging of the Vietnam generation, and political refusal to pay for it.

But, why should someone who retires from military service get lifetime care? It's one thing if they were injured, but why is it a "job benefit." Why aren't vets just treated like everybody else. We all change careers in mid-life.

Agreed. However, to qualify for care you only need to serve 180 days to become a "veteran". There are varying levels of care within the VA from 10% service connected disability to 100% service connected disability.

Why aren't vets "treated like everyone else"? Because they put their lives on hold, gave up the majority of their "rights" to defend YOURS. They wore the uniform of their country and served in the military. They spent months - years - away from their families so YOU wouldn't have to. They served in foreign countries, were shot at, wounded and killed, so YOU could sleep in a warm bed at night.

THAT'S why.

why do congress people get healthcare for life?

BINGO. I've always believed that Vets should be allowed to get care from any medical facility THEY choose and not be relegated to the sub-standard care that the VA is well known for (and has been for the last 50 years).

Some asshole runs (and wins) a seat in Congress and he is taken care of for the rest of his miserable life. A kid joins the Army, gets his legs blown off in some backwater, jerk off country that he didn't want to be in to begin with, and he gets treated like a dog - from the very country that put him in harm's way.

Some asshole in a federal prison decides HE wants to be a SHE - and WE pay for it.

Yep. Sounds like justice to me........

 

[birddog]

So you're saying homeless veterans don't count? The number of homeless veterans is a quarter of what it was when Shinseki took control.

He also managed to decrease the waiting time for approval of disability apps by double digits, expanded mental health care against republican wishes, expanded the GI Bill, and countless other program benefits.

He should not have been taken to task for what has been an institutional and bureaucratic nightmare that he actually managed to help reform.

Note that all problems reported have occurred in red states with republicans appointed VA leaders.

Discern much?

Certainly the homeless are important, but Obama was purposely talking to a friendly audience.

I believe the waiting time for most claims has increased in the last two years.

VA leaders? Appointed by Republicans? What does that mean? I'm in S. Illinois, a blue state, and Marion VA hospital has had serious problems for years.

And yet you suggest the republicans should investigate the root of the problem. You both are clueless partisans. And that wouldn't matter, but you waste your hateful spittle on vets. And I love how the pro-Iraq war crowd are now worried about vets. Love it.

I was never in favor of putting ground troops into Iraq, and have stated so several times.

I am a proponent for Veteran's rights. I serve as a high-ranking officer in The American Legion, and I am frequently in various kinds of meetings to support Veterans.

Are you on dope or something?

 

[bendog]

Discern much?

Certainly the homeless are important, but Obama was purposely talking to a friendly audience.

I believe the waiting time for most claims has increased in the last two years.

VA leaders? Appointed by Republicans? What does that mean? I'm in S. Illinois, a blue state, and Marion VA hospital has had serious problems for years.

And yet you suggest the republicans should investigate the root of the problem. You both are clueless partisans. And that wouldn't matter, but you waste your hateful spittle on vets. And I love how the pro-Iraq war crowd are now worried about vets. Love it.

I was never in favor of putting ground troops into Iraq, and have stated so several times.

I am a proponent for Veteran's rights. I serve as a high-ranking officer in The American Legion, and I am frequently in various kinds of meetings to support Veterans.

Are you on dope or something?

No, I just figure asshats who blame either pol party for this are asshats.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Shinseki was responsible, Howey.

Really? He wasn't supervised by anyone?

You mean the disconnected one? The short answer to your question, NO!

Tiger, he accepted Shinseki's resignation.

Those of us who have been leaders, managers, and commanders have no trouble getting rid of folks who need to go.

Obama waited too long, but, yes, he did the right thing.

What the knowing and understanding Americans won't accept that Shinsek's firing here is somehow relevant to his force retirement when he told Rumsfeld he had his head up his ass if DR himself and Cheney thought that the coalition troop numbers could pacify Iraq.

Shinseki said 400,000 pairs of boots. And that's what it required in 2007, 400,000 troops and mercenaries.

 

[Antares]

Shinseki was responsible, Howey.

Really? He wasn't supervised by anyone?

It was his job

 

[RandallFlagg]

And yet you suggest the republicans should investigate the root of the problem. You both are clueless partisans. And that wouldn't matter, but you waste your hateful spittle on vets. And I love how the pro-Iraq war crowd are now worried about vets. Love it.

I was never in favor of putting ground troops into Iraq, and have stated so several times.

I am a proponent for Veteran's rights. I serve as a high-ranking officer in The American Legion, and I am frequently in various kinds of meetings to support Veterans.

Are you on dope or something?

No, I just figure asshats who blame either pol party for this are asshats.

This is one of the very few problems that lie at the feet of BOTH parties. Again, this didn't begin a year ago. This problem has existed within the VA since WWI and continues to this day.

Look, the VA. was good to me. When I got back from Viet Nam, they (pretty much) paid for my education. I have (over the course of 40 years) purchased 4 homes with VA loan guarntee. The VA is NOT all bad. Their medical services, however, are abysmally lacking and have always been. This is the one area that they simply CAN NOT afford to be, but they have gotten away with their shitty services for years. They employ bottom of the barrel physicians, many who can barely speak English. Sorry, that's the plain truth.

Democrats knew this and feigned outrage for years and nothing ever changed. Republicans knew this and feigned outrage for years and nothing ever changed.

Welcome to the Bullshit world of politics.

 

[birddog]

And yet you suggest the republicans should investigate the root of the problem. You both are clueless partisans. And that wouldn't matter, but you waste your hateful spittle on vets. And I love how the pro-Iraq war crowd are now worried about vets. Love it.

I was never in favor of putting ground troops into Iraq, and have stated so several times.

I am a proponent for Veteran's rights. I serve as a high-ranking officer in The American Legion, and I am frequently in various kinds of meetings to support Veterans.

Are you on dope or something?

No, I just figure asshats who blame either pol party for this are asshats.

I agree there is blame to be placed on both political parties. It's just that Obama has done the poorest job at handling anything, especially the needs of veterans which have gotten to a critical level.

 

[Howey]

How sad that on the day he received a standing ovation from the only people who care about his accomplishments and all he's done.

VETERANS THEMSELVES.

He was talking to a homeless Veterans organization, not to Veterans who have been mistreated or to families with dead Veterans due to shoddy treatment.

That said, I have met Shinseki and listened to him speak, and I was impressed. He was a great General, but was out of his element as VA secretary.

First, it needs to be understood that Shinseki was NOT the problem. The VA has been a clusterfuck since I was a kid and I'm now 70 years old. The VA has always been considered the very last resort a veteran had; and a very large percentage of vets who used the VA had no recourse (lack of any other insurance) but to go there.

Most of the employees are union and couldn't care less about the Vets they treat and are never afraid of losing their jobs. Sad but true. I have been in favor, for years, of veterans receiving care at ANY medical facility they wish but it will never happen.

Remember this: In this country we treat prisoners better than we treat our veterans. I thank God that when I retired from the Army, I stepped into a good occupation with quality insurance.

Bullshit. The quality of care veterans receive is impeccable.

And most, 40% I believe, of VA employees are also veterans.

 

[RandallFlagg]

He was talking to a homeless Veterans organization, not to Veterans who have been mistreated or to families with dead Veterans due to shoddy treatment.

That said, I have met Shinseki and listened to him speak, and I was impressed. He was a great General, but was out of his element as VA secretary.

First, it needs to be understood that Shinseki was NOT the problem. The VA has been a clusterfuck since I was a kid and I'm now 70 years old. The VA has always been considered the very last resort a veteran had; and a very large percentage of vets who used the VA had no recourse (lack of any other insurance) but to go there.

Most of the employees are union and couldn't care less about the Vets they treat and are never afraid of losing their jobs. Sad but true. I have been in favor, for years, of veterans receiving care at ANY medical facility they wish but it will never happen.

Remember this: In this country we treat prisoners better than we treat our veterans. I thank God that when I retired from the Army, I stepped into a good occupation with quality insurance.

Bullshit. The quality of care veterans receive is impeccable.

And most, 40% I believe, of VA employees are also veterans.

And you've been receiving treatment at which facility? You are a poseur who gets his marching orders from MSNBC. In short - go to hell, ass clown.

 

[Howey]

He was talking to a homeless Veterans organization, not to Veterans who have been mistreated or to families with dead Veterans due to shoddy treatment.

That said, I have met Shinseki and listened to him speak, and I was impressed. He was a great General, but was out of his element as VA secretary.

So you're saying homeless veterans don't count? The number of homeless veterans is a quarter of what it was when Shinseki took control.

He also managed to decrease the waiting time for approval of disability apps by double digits, expanded mental health care against republican wishes, expanded the GI Bill, and countless other program benefits.

He should not have been taken to task for what has been an institutional and bureaucratic nightmare that he actually managed to help reform.

Note that all problems reported have occurred in red states with republicans appointed VA leaders.

Dude quite being a fucking douche......The head of the VA was appointed by Obama....fuck off.....

Go back again and read what I wrote.

 

[bendog]

I was never in favor of putting ground troops into Iraq, and have stated so several times.

I am a proponent for Veteran's rights. I serve as a high-ranking officer in The American Legion, and I am frequently in various kinds of meetings to support Veterans.

Are you on dope or something?

No, I just figure asshats who blame either pol party for this are asshats.

This is one of the very few problems that lie at the feet of BOTH parties. Again, this didn't begin a year ago. This problem has existed within the VA since WWI and continues to this day.

Look, the VA. was good to me. When I got back from Viet Nam, they (pretty much) paid for my education. I have (over the course of 40 years) purchased 4 homes with VA loan guarntee. The VA is NOT all bad. Their medical services, however, are abysmally lacking and have always been. This is the one area that they simply CAN NOT afford to be, but they have gotten away with their shitty services for years. They employ bottom of the barrel physicians, many who can barely speak English. Sorry, that's the plain truth.

Democrats knew this and feigned outrage for years and nothing ever changed. Republicans knew this and feigned outrage for years and nothing ever changed.

Welcome to the Bullshit world of politics.

Agreed.

And just to be clear, I'm certainly not minimizing the injuries vets suffered or suggesting they not get adequate care. But, I worked with guys weren't permanently injured, who'd been drafted in the viet era, and they used the same employer sponsored care I did. My brother in law used his union bargained insurance. I worked with guys who'd put in 20 and got out, and they used private/govt employee insurance. The only person I've know who consistently used the VA was my old barber who was a WWII vet.

So, I'm not against helping the injured. I'm certainly not against vet benefits aimed at private employment and home buying. I just don't "get" why we have a separate heath provider network just for people who were in the military at some pt of their lives.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

He was talking to a homeless Veterans organization, not to Veterans who have been mistreated or to families with dead Veterans due to shoddy treatment.

That said, I have met Shinseki and listened to him speak, and I was impressed. He was a great General, but was out of his element as VA secretary.

First, it needs to be understood that Shinseki was NOT the problem. The VA has been a clusterfuck since I was a kid and I'm now 70 years old. The VA has always been considered the very last resort a veteran had; and a very large percentage of vets who used the VA had no recourse (lack of any other insurance) but to go there.

Most of the employees are union and couldn't care less about the Vets they treat and are never afraid of losing their jobs. Sad but true. I have been in favor, for years, of veterans receiving care at ANY medical facility they wish but it will never happen.

Remember this: In this country we treat prisoners better than we treat our veterans. I thank God that when I retired from the Army, I stepped into a good occupation with quality insurance.

Bullshit. The quality of care veterans receive is impeccable.

And most, 40% I believe, of VA employees are also veterans.

 

[MikeK]

How sad that on the day he received a standing ovation from the only people who care about his accomplishments and all he's done.

VETERANS THEMSELVES.

He was talking to a homeless Veterans organization, not to Veterans who have been mistreated or to families with dead Veterans due to shoddy treatment.

That said, I have met Shinseki and listened to him speak, and I was impressed. He was a great General, but was out of his element as VA secretary.

I agree. That job was not for his kind of soldier.

Most Americans have forgotten that Shinseki was once Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. But when he refused to invade Iraq with the diminutive number of troops Rumsfeld had proposed, insisting the invasion would call for at least 250,000 more to avoid many deaths and injuries, such as eventually did happen -- proving he was right, Bush fired him!

The bottom line to this story is responsibility for the problems at the VA belongs to Bush for not heeding Shinseki's warning which resulted in so many injured troops, thus overwhelming the VA's capabilities.

Eric Shinseki has twice been the victim of our disgustingly corrupted government, a government which has for decades been staffed with incompetents and self-serving liars.

 

[RandallFlagg]

No, I just figure asshats who blame either pol party for this are asshats.

This is one of the very few problems that lie at the feet of BOTH parties. Again, this didn't begin a year ago. This problem has existed within the VA since WWI and continues to this day.

Look, the VA. was good to me. When I got back from Viet Nam, they (pretty much) paid for my education. I have (over the course of 40 years) purchased 4 homes with VA loan guarntee. The VA is NOT all bad. Their medical services, however, are abysmally lacking and have always been. This is the one area that they simply CAN NOT afford to be, but they have gotten away with their shitty services for years. They employ bottom of the barrel physicians, many who can barely speak English. Sorry, that's the plain truth.

Democrats knew this and feigned outrage for years and nothing ever changed. Republicans knew this and feigned outrage for years and nothing ever changed.

Welcome to the Bullshit world of politics.

Agreed.

And just to be clear, I'm certainly not minimizing the injuries vets suffered or suggesting they not get adequate care. But, I worked with guys weren't permanently injured, who'd been drafted in the viet era, and they used the same employer sponsored care I did. My brother in law used his union bargained insurance. I worked with guys who'd put in 20 and got out, and they used private/govt employee insurance. The only person I've know who consistently used the VA was my old barber who was a WWII vet.

So, I'm not against helping the injured. I'm certainly not against vet benefits aimed at private employment and home buying. I just don't "get" why we have a separate heath provider network just for people who were in the military at some pt of their lives.

Had you bothered to read my post you would see that I, too, have never used the VA medical. I retired, stepped into a good civilian occupation with great insurance - as did the vast majority of Vets that were employed at the company I worked for.

The VA Medical system is there for those Veterans who, because of a variety of reasons, can't get private insurance due to unemployment or injury but can be used by ANY veteran. That's (basically) why the VA has gotten away with this crap for so long. The majority of Vets who utilize the medical facilities keep their mouths shut. They have no other choice.

 

[bendog]

This is one of the very few problems that lie at the feet of BOTH parties. Again, this didn't begin a year ago. This problem has existed within the VA since WWI and continues to this day.

Look, the VA. was good to me. When I got back from Viet Nam, they (pretty much) paid for my education. I have (over the course of 40 years) purchased 4 homes with VA loan guarntee. The VA is NOT all bad. Their medical services, however, are abysmally lacking and have always been. This is the one area that they simply CAN NOT afford to be, but they have gotten away with their shitty services for years. They employ bottom of the barrel physicians, many who can barely speak English. Sorry, that's the plain truth.

Democrats knew this and feigned outrage for years and nothing ever changed. Republicans knew this and feigned outrage for years and nothing ever changed.

Welcome to the Bullshit world of politics.

Agreed.

And just to be clear, I'm certainly not minimizing the injuries vets suffered or suggesting they not get adequate care. But, I worked with guys weren't permanently injured, who'd been drafted in the viet era, and they used the same employer sponsored care I did. My brother in law used his union bargained insurance. I worked with guys who'd put in 20 and got out, and they used private/govt employee insurance. The only person I've know who consistently used the VA was my old barber who was a WWII vet.

So, I'm not against helping the injured. I'm certainly not against vet benefits aimed at private employment and home buying. I just don't "get" why we have a separate heath provider network just for people who were in the military at some pt of their lives.

Had you bothered to read my post you would see that I, too, have never used the VA medical. I retired, stepped into a good civilian occupation with great insurance - as did the vast majority of Vets that were employed at the company I worked for.

The VA Medical system is there for those Veterans who, because of a variety of reasons, can't get private insurance due to unemployment or injury but can be used by ANY veteran. That's (basically) why the VA has gotten away with this crap for so long. The majority of Vets who utilize the medical facilities keep their mouths shut. They have no other choice.

I read your post but it didn't respond to my question. SINCE MOST VETS WHO DIDN'T GET BLOWN UP DON'T USE THE VA, WHY BOTHER WITH VA CARE FOR PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T GET BLOWN UP OR MENATLLY DISABLED?

Instead you just went off on "we served in foreign lands." Yeah and people teach, arrest dangerous felons, and do all kinds of good shite because they're good people, and your shite smells just like theirs.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Agreed.

And just to be clear, I'm certainly not minimizing the injuries vets suffered or suggesting they not get adequate care. But, I worked with guys weren't permanently injured, who'd been drafted in the viet era, and they used the same employer sponsored care I did. My brother in law used his union bargained insurance. I worked with guys who'd put in 20 and got out, and they used private/govt employee insurance. The only person I've know who consistently used the VA was my old barber who was a WWII vet.

So, I'm not against helping the injured. I'm certainly not against vet benefits aimed at private employment and home buying. I just don't "get" why we have a separate heath provider network just for people who were in the military at some pt of their lives.

Had you bothered to read my post you would see that I, too, have never used the VA medical. I retired, stepped into a good civilian occupation with great insurance - as did the vast majority of Vets that were employed at the company I worked for.

The VA Medical system is there for those Veterans who, because of a variety of reasons, can't get private insurance due to unemployment or injury but can be used by ANY veteran. That's (basically) why the VA has gotten away with this crap for so long. The majority of Vets who utilize the medical facilities keep their mouths shut. They have no other choice.

I read your post but it didn't respond to my question. SINCE MOST VETS WHO DIDN'T GET BLOWN UP DON'T USE THE VA, WHY BOTHER WITH VA CARE FOR PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T GET BLOWN UP OR MENATLLY DISABLED?

Instead you just went off on "we served in foreign lands." Yeah and people teach, arrest dangerous felons, and do all kinds of good shite because they're good people, and your shite smells just like theirs.

OK stupid, let me repeat myself so even YOU can understand it:

BECAUSE THEY EARNED IT!!!!!

Now, are you capable of comprehending that?

 

[Peach]

So you're saying homeless veterans don't count? The number of homeless veterans is a quarter of what it was when Shinseki took control.

He also managed to decrease the waiting time for approval of disability apps by double digits, expanded mental health care against republican wishes, expanded the GI Bill, and countless other program benefits.

He should not have been taken to task for what has been an institutional and bureaucratic nightmare that he actually managed to help reform.

Note that all problems reported have occurred in red states with republicans appointed VA leaders.

Discern much?

Certainly the homeless are important, but Obama was purposely talking to a friendly audience.

I believe the waiting time for most claims has increased in the last two years.

VA leaders? Appointed by Republicans? What does that mean? I'm in S. Illinois, a blue state, and Marion VA hospital has had serious problems for years.

And yet you suggest the republicans should investigate the root of the problem. You both are clueless partisans. And that wouldn't matter, but you waste your hateful spittle on vets. And I love how the pro-Iraq war crowd are now worried about vets. Love it.

They like the parades honoring those who died in service; paying for medical of the wounded costs $$$, not a PRIORITY.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

How sad that on the day he received a standing ovation from the only people who care about his accomplishments and all he's done.

VETERANS THEMSELVES.

Show some respect for the poor guy, Howdy. Spell his name correctly, for Pete's sake.