Should the Federal Reserve be abolished?

[itfitzme]

Consider, if the goods/services grow by 2% and the money supply grows by 2%, the ratio of goods/services vs. money supply remains constant. Thus, no inflation is created.

There is a bit of a problem here, the ideal that inflation can be zero. If you have a realistic proposal, I think the Fed and economists everywhere would be interested.

Another small detail is that the Fed doesn't create the money supply. The money supply is created by private banks. The Fed attempts to influence the money supply though it's ability is tenuous at best. The Fed manages Mb, the monetary base which is called outside money because is outside the working economy. The money that is used by the markets us called inside money and is created by private banks. These are M1 and M2 which are basically the money in circulation and savings plus circulatiom. The ratio of M1/Mb and M2/Mb are watched by economists.

You should take a look at what the CPI is on a monthly basis. I swings considerably and often goes negative.

I'm trying to get a graph of the ratio of M1/ Mb. It will be at least ten and not particularly stable.

These two facts are sufficient in demonstating that the Fed has only tenuous influence over the money supply.

The fact that money is created by the private banking system and not the Fed is a matter of common knowledge for economists and finnacial proffesionals. It's just the way it has always been.

 

[itfitzme]

Here is the ratio of M2 to Mb.

I wish the data went back further. It could be just the series i picked. Never the less, the money supply has been eight to 12 times larger than the monetary base. Anf, that the ratio isn'_pt constant demonstrates that the Fed's control of it is not absolute. In fact, the collapse the ratio at the recession was due to the inside supply falling while the Fed desperately jacked up the monetary base.

 

[itfitzme]

This is M1/Mb, the ratio of the money in circulation to the base money

It was as much as three times and has fallen by half. The money supply has fallen all the while, as you put it, the Fed was "printing money"

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This is M1/Mb, the ratio of the money in circulation to the base money

It was as much as three times and has fallen by half. The money supply has fallen all the while, as you put it, the Fed was "printing money"

The money supply has fallen

You don't mean that......

 

[itfitzme]

This is monthly inflation rate. The yearly average is just that, an average. It has often fallen below zero and is quite volatile about the mean.

It also varies from region to region. At any particular time, onebregion can be seeing deflation while another is experiencing infation.

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Their stock holders loan us money. As I've shown not long ago, how Morgan Stanley bought our bonds in Belgium to near the GDP of the nation.

But Morgan Stanley's not the Fed. They don't have anyone on the Board............Yep, they are all so innocent. If all proceeds go to the Treasury anyway, then why are they charging us to sell the bonds at a rate of 6%.............And if they can't do whatever they want, then why are they borrowing Trillions at 0%, created out of thin air and then loaned back to us through a proxy saying they have no ties.

They hand that off to the stock holders in profits.

Why should we do that when we can do it for the ink or hitting the enter button on a computer for free.

Your side doesn't say jack about the 16.1 Trillion in Back door loans after the crash, or the Trillions since then. Nor the fact that the Fed inflated the markets so you guys can do your thing and crash the whole thing later.

It's all BS.

Members of the Federal Reserve system must contribute capital to buy shares in their regional Federal Reserve bank, and for that, they can access the Fed window and borrow when they are under stress. The 6% dividend banks receive is below the normal return on equity for a bank, which is typically 12%-15%. If banks had a choice, they wouldn't own shares in the Fed and would deploy capital more profitably elsewhere.

Oh, so it is basically a protection racket.

 

[itfitzme]

Their stock holders loan us money. As I've shown not long ago, how Morgan Stanley bought our bonds in Belgium to near the GDP of the nation.

But Morgan Stanley's not the Fed. They don't have anyone on the Board............Yep, they are all so innocent. If all proceeds go to the Treasury anyway, then why are they charging us to sell the bonds at a rate of 6%.............And if they can't do whatever they want, then why are they borrowing Trillions at 0%, created out of thin air and then loaned back to us through a proxy saying they have no ties.

They hand that off to the stock holders in profits.

Why should we do that when we can do it for the ink or hitting the enter button on a computer for free.

Your side doesn't say jack about the 16.1 Trillion in Back door loans after the crash, or the Trillions since then. Nor the fact that the Fed inflated the markets so you guys can do your thing and crash the whole thing later.

It's all BS.

Members of the Federal Reserve system must contribute capital to buy shares in their regional Federal Reserve bank, and for that, they can access the Fed window and borrow when they are under stress. The 6% dividend banks receive is below the normal return on equity for a bank, which is typically 12%-15%. If banks had a choice, they wouldn't own shares in the Fed and would deploy capital more profitably elsewhere.

Oh, so it is basically a protection racket.

Just like liability car insurance is a protection racket. The banks are being protected from constant economic crashes.

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/GAO Fed Investigation.pdf

page 144 Only after a Supreme Court Ruling to force disclosure. Yeah, it was all about TARP.....the same as pigs flying............

Why the hell is Belgium buying so much US debt?

In February, according to data just released by the US Treasury Department, it added $30.9 billion, taking its mountain of Treasuries to the phenomenal level of $341.2 billion, or about 70% of its GDP.
It put that speck of land with 11 million people in third place, behind export powerhouse China ($1.27 trillion) and former export powerhouse and now money-printing powerhouse Japan ($1.21 trillion), the second and third largest economies in the world.
From August last year, when an already lofty $166.8 billion in Treasuries were held in Belgium, holdings have soared by 105%! Why this sudden jump?

One of them is called Euroclear. It’s a big outfit. It holds €24.2 trillion ($33 trillion) in assets. Its clients include, as it says, over 2,000 global and local custodians, broker dealers, central banks, commercial and investment banks, investment managers, and supranational organizations in more than 90 countries. The total value of securities transactions it settles for them exceed €570 trillion per year. It proudly points out: “Every 6 days we settle transactions equivalent to the GDP of the EU.”

 

[itfitzme]

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/GAO Fed Investigation.pdf

page 144 Only after a Supreme Court Ruling to force disclosure. Yeah, it was all about TARP.....the same as pigs flying............

Why the hell is Belgium buying so much US debt?

In February, according to data just released by the US Treasury Department, it added $30.9 billion, taking its mountain of Treasuries to the phenomenal level of $341.2 billion, or about 70% of its GDP.
It put that speck of land with 11 million people in third place, behind export powerhouse China ($1.27 trillion) and former export powerhouse and now money-printing powerhouse Japan ($1.21 trillion), the second and third largest economies in the world.
From August last year, when an already lofty $166.8 billion in Treasuries were held in Belgium, holdings have soared by 105%! Why this sudden jump?

One of them is called Euroclear. It’s a big outfit. It holds €24.2 trillion ($33 trillion) in assets. Its clients include, as it says, over 2,000 global and local custodians, broker dealers, central banks, commercial and investment banks, investment managers, and supranational organizations in more than 90 countries. The total value of securities transactions it settles for them exceed €570 trillion per year. It proudly points out: “Every 6 days we settle transactions equivalent to the GDP of the EU.”

Uh, I'm sure you think there is some point you're making..

 

[itfitzme]

1. The US Congress has the option to buy back the FED at $450 millions (per Congressional Records). When the Congress does this, it will own back the billions of US Government Bonds held by the FED. The US Government will actually PROFIT by buying back the FED! Also, the US government no longer has to pay interests to the FED owners on those bonds.

Prove all of this using specific citations to back up your claims. Allow us to read all of this in actual, legal documentation. If you are unable to prove most of this section, at the very least provide proof of the bolded portion.

Until this happens, I must assume that you're another nutjob Teabagger lying to us to get us to support your ridiculous, discriminatory policies.

SIGHTINGS

REFERENCES

(1) "The Federal Reserve Bank", by H.S. Kenan, published by The Noontide Press

(2) National Committee to Repeal the Federal Reserve Act, P.O. Box 156, Westmont, IL 60559

(3) "The New World Order, Saving America", P.O. Box 1205, Middleburg, FL 32050-1205

(4) "Bulletin", February 1989 & November 1991 issues, P.O. Box 986, Ft. Collins, CO 80522 (Newsletter; $3 each)

(5) "The Most Secret Science", Betsy Ross Press, P.O. Box 986, Ft. Collins, CO 80522 (Book) States attempt to abolish the FED. $12.00

(6) "Insider Report", P.O. Box 84903, Phoenix, AZ 85071

(7) "Phoenix Journal Express", P.O. Box 986, Tehachap, CA 93581

(8) $16 trillion in government and private debt, much of which the FED printed and collected interest on (Reference 3)

(9) Northpoint Tactical Team, P.O. Box 129, Topton, NC 28781

(10) Christian Defense League, Box 449, Arabi, LA 70023

(11) "Bulletin", June 1992 issue, P.O. Box 986, Ft. Collins, CO 80522 (Newsletter; $3 each)

(12) "Savings and Loan Unethical Bailout" by Rev. Casimir F. Gierut

(13) "Dark Secrets of the New Age" by Texe Marrs

(14) "En Route to Global Occupation" by Gary H. Kah

(15) "One World" by John Amkerberg & John Weldon

(16) "The Spotlight", Liberty Lobby, 300 Independence Ave. S.E., Washington, D.C. 20003 (Newspaper)

(17) "Repeal the Federal Reserve Banks" by Rev. Casimir Frank Gierut

(18) The Constitution of the United States

(19) "Walls in Our Minds" by M.J. Red Beckman, Common Sense Press, P.O. Box 1544, Billings, MT 59103. A must read book - $2.50

(20) "The Law That Never Was" Volume I, Bill Benson & M.J. Red Beckman, P.O. Box 1544, Billings, MT 59103 or write to Bill Benson, P.O. Box 550, South Holland, IL 60473. Proof that the 16th Amendment (income tax) was never properly ratified.

(21) "New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies" by William T. Still

(22) "The Secrets of the Federal Reserve" by Mullins

(23) "The Social Security & Pension Conspiracy" by Metz

(24) "The History of the Federal Reserve. How to Replace It or How to Reform It" by Metz - for references 23 & 24 write to Howard Metz, P.O. Box 341, Malverne, LI 11565

(25) "The New World Order" by Pat Robertson. On page 131 he states that we must abolish the FED.

(26) "Operation Vampire Killer 2000", highly recommended book. $6.00 ($8.00 for 2) from ACLA, P.O. Box 8712, Phoenix, AZ 85066 This is a must read book with quotes from well known people. This book proves conspiracy. Your local police needs to read this book so they will protect you - not become United Nations Agents against you. This book will stop the New World Order plan to take over the U.S.A.

"America Betrayed", Center For Action, 652 N. Glenview, Nesa, AZ 85213

For references 1, 12, and 17, contact The National Committee to Repeal the Federal Reserve Act (Reference 2)

I didn't write this article. If you want to challenge those that wrote this please feel free to call the or buy the books yourself.

The link posted has a lot of information on why the hell we should abolish the scumbags at the Fed. I'm not going to spend my time or money to back up the references of those who presented this case and article.

You can if you choose.

It fails at the most fundamemntal levels of having no actual bearing on the structure of the economy.

 

[itfitzme]

So Far those favoring the Federal Reserve being abolished are winning at the polls of opinion. It's 17 to 5 at this point.

I'm very happy to see that many on these boards have not been fooled by the Pravda on why we need to pay them to print our currency.

Which is why the Constitution set up a Republic with two houses of Congress. I am quite sure that no one has ever accused the general public of being ratinal.

 

[Toro]

Their stock holders loan us money. As I've shown not long ago, how Morgan Stanley bought our bonds in Belgium to near the GDP of the nation.

But Morgan Stanley's not the Fed. They don't have anyone on the Board............Yep, they are all so innocent. If all proceeds go to the Treasury anyway, then why are they charging us to sell the bonds at a rate of 6%.............And if they can't do whatever they want, then why are they borrowing Trillions at 0%, created out of thin air and then loaned back to us through a proxy saying they have no ties.

They hand that off to the stock holders in profits.

Why should we do that when we can do it for the ink or hitting the enter button on a computer for free.

Your side doesn't say jack about the 16.1 Trillion in Back door loans after the crash, or the Trillions since then. Nor the fact that the Fed inflated the markets so you guys can do your thing and crash the whole thing later.

It's all BS.

Members of the Federal Reserve system must contribute capital to buy shares in their regional Federal Reserve bank, and for that, they can access the Fed window and borrow when they are under stress. The 6% dividend banks receive is below the normal return on equity for a bank, which is typically 12%-15%. If banks had a choice, they wouldn't own shares in the Fed and would deploy capital more profitably elsewhere.

Oh, so it is basically a protection racket.

Banks don't have to be a part of the Federal Reserve System if they don't want to. Some aren't.

 

[itfitzme]

members of the federal reserve system must contribute capital to buy shares in their regional federal reserve bank, and for that, they can access the fed window and borrow when they are under stress. The 6% dividend banks receive is below the normal return on equity for a bank, which is typically 12%-15%. If banks had a choice, they wouldn't own shares in the fed and would deploy capital more profitably elsewhere.

oh, so it is basically a protection racket.

banks don't have to be a part of the federal reserve system if they don't want to. Some aren't.

fdic?

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/GAO Fed Investigation.pdf

page 144 Only after a Supreme Court Ruling to force disclosure. Yeah, it was all about TARP.....the same as pigs flying............

Why the hell is Belgium buying so much US debt?

In February, according to data just released by the US Treasury Department, it added $30.9 billion, taking its mountain of Treasuries to the phenomenal level of $341.2 billion, or about 70% of its GDP.
It put that speck of land with 11 million people in third place, behind export powerhouse China ($1.27 trillion) and former export powerhouse and now money-printing powerhouse Japan ($1.21 trillion), the second and third largest economies in the world.
From August last year, when an already lofty $166.8 billion in Treasuries were held in Belgium, holdings have soared by 105%! Why this sudden jump?

One of them is called Euroclear. It’s a big outfit. It holds €24.2 trillion ($33 trillion) in assets. Its clients include, as it says, over 2,000 global and local custodians, broker dealers, central banks, commercial and investment banks, investment managers, and supranational organizations in more than 90 countries. The total value of securities transactions it settles for them exceed €570 trillion per year. It proudly points out: “Every 6 days we settle transactions equivalent to the GDP of the EU.”

Uh, I'm sure you think there is some point you're making..

Todd asked for some data on the Trillions so I posted the GAO report on the back door loans after the crash which totaled 16.1 Trillion Dollars. The Fed refused to disclose this data and it took a Supreme Court Ruling to force disclosure.

All the Govt and the Media talked about was TARP. Then you hear them saying, look the loans on TARP are paid off. Which is all BS as they took FIAT Currency out the back door of the Federal Reserve and then paid off the BS of TARP.

Why wasn't that in the news showing the actual depth of the Too Big To Fail Bailout..............................

Other articles were to show how they are buying the bonds through places like Belgium.

They didn't show the explosion of Derivatives after the Graham Leahy Act decided that the too big to fail would be self regulated. They didn't show the mountain of Derivatives created in 6 years as a result, and then imploded.

Face it. They opened up pandora's box in 2000 and the banks fucked the world by flooding it with Fiat currency, aka Derivative dept to the next damn universe. And the bail outs including the immediate loans, with the QE's are at a minimum of 22 TRILLION NOW.

 

[eagle1462010]

So Far those favoring the Federal Reserve being abolished are winning at the polls of opinion. It's 17 to 5 at this point.

I'm very happy to see that many on these boards have not been fooled by the Pravda on why we need to pay them to print our currency.

Which is why the Constitution set up a Republic with two houses of Congress. I am quite sure that no one has ever accused the general public of being ratinal.

Like their rationality to allow the too big to fail to self regulate.............Worked out well didn't it...........Now they blow the bubbles up again, so they can tank the Markets whenever they please.................

All via the creation of Fiat Currency through the Fractional Banking system from hell. With the Federal Reserve, IMF, and currency manipulators all over the world playing it like it's a simple game of monopoly.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/GAO Fed Investigation.pdf

page 144 Only after a Supreme Court Ruling to force disclosure. Yeah, it was all about TARP.....the same as pigs flying............

Uh, I'm sure you think there is some point you're making..

Todd asked for some data on the Trillions so I posted the GAO report on the back door loans after the crash which totaled 16.1 Trillion Dollars. The Fed refused to disclose this data and it took a Supreme Court Ruling to force disclosure.

All the Govt and the Media talked about was TARP. Then you hear them saying, look the loans on TARP are paid off. Which is all BS as they took FIAT Currency out the back door of the Federal Reserve and then paid off the BS of TARP.

Why wasn't that in the news showing the actual depth of the Too Big To Fail Bailout..............................

Other articles were to show how they are buying the bonds through places like Belgium.

They didn't show the explosion of Derivatives after the Graham Leahy Act decided that the too big to fail would be self regulated. They didn't show the mountain of Derivatives created in 6 years as a result, and then imploded.

Face it. They opened up pandora's box in 2000 and the banks fucked the world by flooding it with Fiat currency, aka Derivative dept to the next damn universe. And the bail outs including the immediate loans, with the QE's are at a minimum of 22 TRILLION NOW.

Then you hear them saying, look the loans on TARP are paid off.

The TARP loans to banks were paid off. The Treasury made billions.

they took FIAT Currency out the back door of the Federal Reserve and then paid off the BS of TARP.

The banks paid back the loans from the Fed, even before they paid back TARP.

flooding it with Fiat currency, aka Derivative dept to the next damn universe.

Why are you confusing currency with derivatives? Do you know the difference?

 

[eagle1462010]

Uh, I'm sure you think there is some point you're making..

Todd asked for some data on the Trillions so I posted the GAO report on the back door loans after the crash which totaled 16.1 Trillion Dollars. The Fed refused to disclose this data and it took a Supreme Court Ruling to force disclosure.

All the Govt and the Media talked about was TARP. Then you hear them saying, look the loans on TARP are paid off. Which is all BS as they took FIAT Currency out the back door of the Federal Reserve and then paid off the BS of TARP.

Why wasn't that in the news showing the actual depth of the Too Big To Fail Bailout..............................

Other articles were to show how they are buying the bonds through places like Belgium.

They didn't show the explosion of Derivatives after the Graham Leahy Act decided that the too big to fail would be self regulated. They didn't show the mountain of Derivatives created in 6 years as a result, and then imploded.

Face it. They opened up pandora's box in 2000 and the banks fucked the world by flooding it with Fiat currency, aka Derivative dept to the next damn universe. And the bail outs including the immediate loans, with the QE's are at a minimum of 22 TRILLION NOW.

Then you hear them saying, look the loans on TARP are paid off.

The TARP loans to banks were paid off. The Treasury made billions.

they took FIAT Currency out the back door of the Federal Reserve and then paid off the BS of TARP.

The banks paid back the loans from the Fed, even before they paid back TARP.

flooding it with Fiat currency, aka Derivative dept to the next damn universe.

Why are you confusing currency with derivatives? Do you know the difference?

And how much currency was issued to do this. How much more in circulation.........They borrowed from the Back door, and paid off at the Treasury. They borrowed at roughly 0% to a .25 percent rate........Have they paid those loans back. The 16.1 Trillion right after the crash. Show me that data and I'll be impressed, and if you do please show me that they didn't get another loan to pay that as well.

What happens when we increase or currency supply...........Nothing or do we lose value on the purchasing power of our currency.................

I'm not going to post the graph, but since we came off the Gold Standard under Nixon, how has our currency fared on purchasing power or value.............We are destroying that value.

Do I know the deference.............Yes I do, but how did all those derivative debts come from ...........thin air with no means to pay for it. Borrowing to pay margin in the Casino of the Markets. Derivatives are DEBT. Currency creation by borrowing large sums is DEBT.

Either way, you know damned well the Fed is manipulating the system and it caused massive failures. In 2000, Margin debt hit record levels, and stocks went down......Same as the Great Recession and implosion of 2008..........And that Margin debt was higher than 2000 and now we are setting new highs in 2014.

Margin Debt and betting with nothing to back it up helped cause the Great Depression. As I've said on other threads it's a Grand Illusion.

 

[deltex1]

No. It keep a lot of Jews off the street.....


Just kidding, rabbi....

 

[eagle1462010]

Global Derivatives Market at $1,200 Trillion Dollars | Prepare and Prosper

A Clear and Present Danger to the World Economy


The size of the derivatives market is a significant threat to the global economy. It is complex, unregulated, and it ought to be of concern to world leaders. Even the U.S. Treasury can’t bail out banks to the tune of $1.2 quadrillion, or even $600 trillion, if that more conservative number makes better sense.

How big is the risk to the world economy from these derivatives? According to Wilmott, it’s impossible to know unless you understand the details of the derivatives contracts. But since they’re unregulated and likely to remain so, it is hard to gauge the risk.

Another kind of market conduct that makes markets volatile is what Wilmott calls positive and negative feedback loops. These relatively bland-sounding terms mask some really scary behavior for investors who are not clued into it.

Wilmott argues that a positive feedback loop contributed to the 22.6 percent crash in the Dow back in October 1987.

The global financial crisis three years ago was caused in part by the proliferation of derivative products tied to U.S. home loans that ceased performing, triggering hundreds of billions of dollars in write downs that lead to the collapse of Lehman Brothers in September 2008.

Credit default swaps were largely responsible for bringing down Bear Stearns, AIG, Washington Mutual and other mammoth corporations.

Unexpected changes in interest rates could cause a major bloodbath in interest rate derivatives.

There have not been any reforms or attempts to rein in derivatives. The highly touted Dodd-Frank financial legislation didn’t really change anything to do with derivatives. The fundamental problem is that derivatives trading is hugely profitable for banks and insurance companies. It is a profit source they are not willing to give up easily.

The big banks claim that the huge amounts of derivatives themselves is unimportant because these are only “notional” values, and – after netting – the notional values are deflated to much more modest numbers.

The problem with netting is that it is based on one massively flawed assumption, namely that in an orderly collapse all derivative contracts will be honored by the issuing bank. The best example of how the flaw behind netting almost destroyed the system is AIG. The insurance company was hours away from making trillions of derivative contracts worthless. The U.S. Treasury stepped in with hundreds of billions of dollars to shore up the market.

I bolded Todd's normal response. It's notional...............No big deal.........

Only when they fart and crash economies are they a big deal.

In 2000 the derivatives were only at about 70 Trillion. Naw, derivatives didn't have a dang thing to do with anything. And they are only notional now.........Trade on dude...............

And it crashes again...........coming soon.

 

[eagle1462010]

The Glass-Steagall Act Explained

2. Separation of Commercial and Investment Banking

As important as the FDIC’s creation was, the term Glass-Steagall usually refers to the set of rules that kept a savings-and-loan type bank from engaging in speculative, risky training with customers’ deposits. If a bank took deposits, it could not trade in anything other than government bonds; if it underwrote securities or engaged in market-making, it could not take deposits.

The motivation for this separation rested on alleged conflicts of interest. Glass and Steagall, as well as others, accused banks of partnering with affiliates which later sold securities to repay banks’ debts, or accepted loans from banks to buy securities. They also worried that banks engaged in risk-taking speculation, rather than investing in corporations to promote growth.

Five provisions of the Banking Act pertained to this separation:

Section 19: Federally chartered banks could not buy or sell securities, unless they were investment securities, government bonds or trades made on behalf of a customer.
Section 5(c): Glass-Steagall would also apply to state-chartered banks.
Section 20: Banks could not be affiliated with firms whose primary purpose was trading securities.
Section 21: If a bank did trade securities, it could not take deposits.
Section 32: Officers and directors of commercial banks (banks part of the Federal Reserve System) were barred from holding advisory positions in companies whose primary purpose was trading securities.

The Banks should have never been let off the leash. They understood clearly why the Great Depression happened and created this to prevent it from happening again. As soon as we let them off the leash they screwed the entire nation.

But it's only NOTIONAL.