Zone1 The 17 Points of the True Church of Jesus Christ

[Cougarbear]

Sorry, I am not Mormon.

So you are unable to read because you are not Mormon? Are you a Moron then? The ordinance of baptism for the dead who never had a chance to hear and accept the Gospel are given the change to accept the vicarious baptism as it has to be done on earth. Do you believe in the resurrection? Then, as the Corinthians, you should believe in the resurrected Christ and the resurrection of all who have live on the earth. Sad to deny baptism to these people is unconscionable.

 

[Cougarbear]

Wrong. You do jump to some amazing conclusions... Again, I know what you believe and why. At the same time it is obvious you haven't the faintest clue as to to what I believe or how I reached those beliefs.

It's not hard to comprehend 1Cor. 15:29. The people had devolved into questioning the resurrection that our body and spirit will be reunited never to die again with flesh and bones (no blood). That's what that verse says was happening. Yet, they were still baptizing for the dead. They were still doing the ordinance work for the dead as Jesus instructed them to do.

 

[Zincwarrior]

So you are unable to read because you are not Mormon? Are you a Moron then? The ordinance of baptism for the dead who never had a chance to hear and accept the Gospel are given the change to accept the vicarious baptism as it has to be done on earth. Do you believe in the resurrection? Then, as the Corinthians, you should believe in the resurrected Christ and the resurrection of all who have live on the earth. Sad to deny baptism to these people is unconscionable.

That is not a Christian practice. Thats at best a Mormon practice. Only crazy Mormons do that shit.

 

[Cougarbear]

That is not a Christian practice. Thats at best a Mormon practice. Only crazy Mormons do that shit.

Who cares if it currently isn’t a “Christian”practice. That’s on “Christians” that don’t perform the ordinance that was clearly instituted either by Jesus himself since he went to the spirits of the dead in spirit prison or by the Apostles after his resurrection. So, I’m happy and proud to perform necessary work for the dead who cannot do it themselves. Shame on you Christians for your hatred to the dead keeping them slaves in spirit prison.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Who cares if it currently isn’t a “Christian”practice. That’s on “Christians” that don’t perform the ordinance that was clearly instituted either by Jesus himself since he went to the spirits of the dead in spirit prison or by the Apostles after his resurrection. So, I’m happy and proud to perform necessary work for the dead who cannot do it themselves. Shame on you Christians for your hatred to the dead keeping them slaves in spirit prison.

It was never a Christian practice. Its a cult Mormon practice.

 

[Cougarbear]

It was never a Christian practice. It’s a cult Mormon practice.

1Corinthians 15:29. It most certainly was…
I suppose you will be like most moron Christians and tear that page out of your Bible and say “Not in my Bible!”
You are a phony follower of the Bible and Jesus Christ. This empirically proves The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true Church in the world.

 

[Zincwarrior]

1Corinthians 15:29. It most certainly was…
I suppose you will be like most moron Christians and tear that page out of your Bible and say “Not in my Bible!”
You are a phony follower of the Bible and Jesus Christ. This empirically proves The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true Church in the world.

Oh jeez, ok, an LDSer. Have a nice day.

 

[Meriweather]

That is not a Christian practice. Thats at best a Mormon practice.

It was never a Christian practice. Its a cult Mormon practice.

Correct. Let's take some heat off LDS (I've been giving them plenty) and take a look at early Christian and Catholic practice. Jews today--and in Jesus' time--do not look at Passover in quite the same way as we look at Thanksgiving--i.e. as a memorial of the first Thanksgiving. Passover isn't simply a memorial but a re-presenting to God of an actual event, where everyone becomes a participant.

Catholics and early Christian tradition celebrate the Eucharist (the Lord's Supper), his death and resurrection at each Mass in the same way. We, the Body of Christ, are re-presenting to the Father the Lord's sacrifice for the glory of God and the salvation of mankind. The Body of Christ is made up of those who are presently living, those who have passed on into heaven, and souls who are undergoing purification/sanctification in purgatory. We come participants in glorifying God and participants in the salvation/sanctification of mankind. We are there at the Eucharist/Last Supper, at the foot of the cross, in the glory of the resurrection and salvation/sanctification of mankind. Like Passover is celebrated, it is not just a memory of some past event, we become participants in the event.

Just as at Passover people became/are members of an extremely large community in an event, the same is true of the Mass/Eucharist. Added to Christ and his Apostles and followers are all those down through the ages who believe in Christ and the salvation he won for us. Because we are in Christ, we are participants in Christ, glorifying God and in bringing salvation/sanctification to the world. Recall Jesus wanted us to be one in him as he is One with the Father.

This is one of the reasons so many find LDS proxy "LDS baptisms" an anathema. They place their "LDS baptism" over and above the salvation Christ brings to the world. It is a suffocating idea when anyone (even when they call themselves a church of Christ) puts one of their ordinances above the salvation/sanctification others of us are celebrating, sometimes on a daily basis. Not an hour goes by where Christ's sacrifice for the glory of God and the salvation/sanctification of the world isn't being re-presented to God somewhere in this world.

St. Monica died 387. She told her sons it did not matter where they buried her body. What mattered was for them to remember her at the altar. That the Body of Christ is comprised of those who have passed on, went even further back than her statement into earlier Christian times. While some quirky group of Corinthians decided that in their area to proxy-baptize the dead, the rest of Christianity was re-presenting to the Father Christ's glorification of God and the salvation/sanctification of mankind. My guess is in shrugging off the Eucharist and all it re-presents to God, they've decided all they are left with is baptism instead of salvation/sanctification.

Zincwarrior, you may feel the Catholic/early Christian celebration is just as silly as the LDS proxy-baptizing the dead. Some do. But it means everything to Catholics, which is why I eschew the LDS church proxy-baptizing Catholics who have passed on. Jews are also vehemently against this practice, and I suspect Muslims are as well. I know Quakers are. The LDS Church has not listened, and they are not listening still. It's shameful. (My opinion)

 

[Cougarbear]

Oh jeez, ok, an LDSer. Have a nice day.

It's as plain as the nose on your face, if you have one. Maybe you don't or it's grown so long from lying that you can't see it.
"Else what shall they do which are BIPTIZED FOR THE DEAD, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then BAPTIZED FOR THE DEAD?" Based on the fact Paul did not use anything that was not true doctrine to make his points, the Corinthians believed in the resurrection for all and not just Jesus Christ. He also was not calling them out saying baptisms for the dead was wrong.

The question that should be asked at this point is, is baptism necessary for those who have died without the knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ with an opportunity to accept it and get baptized. First, all saving and exalting ordinances have to be done on earth by live human beings. And, it is completely 100% necessary to be baptized by water and the spirit. Not just one or the other. John 3:5, "JESUS answered, I tell you the truth, unless a man is born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." Even Jesus Christ himself was baptized by water and the Spirit. And, by the way, if you read on i First Corinthians chapter 15, you will see there are 3 levels of heaven as well. The "Kingdom of God" level is the Celestial Level of Glory. To reach the other glory's stated, baptism is not required. There will be many who reject their vicarious baptism even though they have been taught in spirit prison of the dead. Will they then go to hell? Nope, that is where the less valiant will reside after the resurrection of their bodies. But, they will be "SAVED" from the eternities in hell with Satan.

1 Peter 3:18-21, "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he (Christ) went and preached unto the spirits in prison (spirit prison); Which sometimes were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (SAVED BY WATER - BAPTISM) The like figure whereunto even BAPTISM doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"
1 Peter 4:5-6, "Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit"

Not only did Christ go and preach to those who came before him, others would preach to those who came after him until the judgment day in spirit prison. To be judged righteously with those who accepted the gospel and were baptized in life, the dead also must be judged the same way which would include baptism by water. Well, logic and reason would dictate that vicarious baptisms must be done in order for the judgement be righteous. Paul's statement on this was left in. Why? God did not want that to be lost completely as God knew there was going to be an apostasy and doctrines and ordinances would be lost and cease to be done correctly. Ordinance comes from the word "order" which means done correctly with authority. Apostates cannot do anything with authority.

You can make your innuendos and snotty remarks all you want. But, there is nothing non-Biblical about baptizing for the dead. It would be non-Biblical to not baptize for the dead.