The Benefits Of Socialism

[Toro]

“The Benefits of Socialism”

World’s shortest list.

 

[BrokeLoser]

WTF...are you bipolar?

Not at all, what part are you confused about?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

One minute you seem to support an expansion of socialism and the next you seem to stand firmly against it.
Is that just how you middlegrounders are?

If it is not too much to ask, can you give an example of me supporting an expansion of socialism?

You seem to have started this thread out with a salute to socialism....Did I misread you...AGAIN?

Yes, you did. I started this thread out trying to define socialism because it has 1000 meanings these days. Hell, we had an entire multi page thread where all the Trumpians were accusing Panera of socialism, as if a private company could in any way engage in socialism.

socialism is today's boggieman, it is what anything anybody does not like is called, thus rendering the word meaningless, and also at the same time taking the stigma away from socialism.

"socialism is today's boggieman, it is what anything anybody does not like is called, thus rendering the word meaningless, and also at the same time taking the stigma away from socialism"
It should be today's "boogieman" shouldn't it?
Again, it is what it is and there's really no way to spin it. Here it is again......
“Some get fucked and most get free shit from those being fucked. The middle man (.GOV) decides the details / rules in the game of Fuck Or Be Fucked....That’s socialism without spin.”

 

[Harpy Eagle]

"socialism is today's boggieman, it is what anything anybody does not like is called, thus rendering the word meaningless, and also at the same time taking the stigma away from socialism"
It should be today's "boogieman" shouldn't it?
Again, it is what it is and there's really no way to spin it. Here it is again......
“Some get fucked and most get free shit from those being fucked. The middle man (.GOV) decides the details / rules in the game of Fuck Or Be Fucked....That’s socialism without spin.”

Yes, it should be. But when anything and everything is labeled as socialism, it no longer carries a stigma, it is now commonplace. Is that what you are looking for?

 

[Mac1958]

It depends how far they take it. Ultimately, socialists want everything in society to be determined democratically - which would include how property is distributed. But of course they're not going to lead with that line.

"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance."

It is absurdly stupid to think you can have socialism and democracy at the same time. They are antithetical to each other.

Under socialism, rules and laws exist that violate human freedom in every way. Those that don't care to follow those rules and laws are met with force.

Just ask any citizen that has escaped socialism. Any of them.

If there is democracy and an anti-socialist is elected, the first thing he will do is start tearing down the pillars of socialism. Which can take years. Even decades.

Then, if a socialist is re-elected, he will start to build the disease of socialism. Which can take years or decades.

You can't have socialism and democracy. Anybody that thinks so is so stupid as to defy imagination.

So then, is your version of socialism the traditional definition, government ownership and control of production and distribution?
.

And your version is "government ownership and control of ALL production and distribution", right? Version is versions.

Correct!

And wouldn't it be a more interesting conversation if we all knew what the OP meant by socialism?

Or do we not care about interesting conversations any more?

Have we just decayed into just taking turns screaming shallow talking points at each other?

 

[Mac1958]

Not only does the word not really mean anything any more, it doesn't scare people any more.

 

[Pilot1]

I blame my fathers generation for allowing the uprising of these left wing slave owners..

He was told mind your business, go to work, politician will look out for your best interest..

Now I have to fight these democrats.. the word democrat is worse then nazis

socialism can be traced back to the French Revolution. It is where it all began. (Plato was a delusional imbecile)

In 1776, we started a Revolution the likes of which the World has never seen.

For the first time in human history a group of people successfully rebelled against a ruling class, displaced them and didn't bother to REplace them with themselves.

Much better than Cincinnatus, George Washington turned down the offer to be King.

The French Revolution followed within a few years with a similar goal in mind.

But, being French, they fucked it up. They replaced the House of Bourbon with the lunacy of Robespierre and Napoleon.

What we have now, in this Country, is a shadow ruing class. It is in the Media, Hollywood, Academia and the dimocrap SCUM party.

Look what happened to Jussie-Boy.

Look at all the entitlement in Hollywood.

dimocrap scum really do see themselves as The New Royals.

Open your eyes and you'll see.

I would add Establishment Republican Career Politicians to your list of "New Royals".

 

[Wry Catcher]

This is the way the Regressive Left has long leveraged the term "racism".

Today, it just means whatever they want it to mean at any given time, for some perceived political advantage.

Peas in a pod.
.

Bullshit.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The dimocrap FILTH politicians extolling the virtues of socialism know EXACTLY what they want.

Total control.

Think about it. I mean it.

Every fucking thing dimocrap SCUM advocates demands some kind of government control.

Medicare for all? Government control.

Save the Planet? Government control.

Even the little shit, the stupid little shit -- No more plastic straws. Government control.

Emissions. Government control

dimocrap scum don't really want socialism because they don't know what it is. Nobody does.

Nobody. Even me and I know more about it than anybody in here.

Know why nobody knows what socialism really is?

Because there's never been an example of it that worked!!

Never. It's been tried HUNDREDS of times and it has failed EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Norway? They're not socialist you fucking imbeciles. They're a Constitutional Monarchy enveloped in a Welfare State. Same with Sweden. Same with most of those nasty Scandi Countries. They're welfare States.

They are NOT socialist States. Completely and totally Capitalistic

In fact, if you weren't so stupid (I'm talking to dimocraps, here), you'd know that many of those Countries are MORE BUSINESS FRIENDLY THAN THE USA!!!!!!

According to USNews, the United States is one of the WORST, one of the least Business Friendly Countries in the civilized world at #48.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/open-for-business-rankings

Sweden is #4
Denmark is #5
Norway is #8

dimocrap FILTH don't want socialism, they want totalitarianism with them in control.

Fortunately for us, dimocrap scum are seriously stupid fuckwads. But they are also seriously dangerous scumbags

Your hypocrisy is shown in the very first part of this foolish rant.

If either party seeks total control it is the Republican Party. Two facts prove their intent is to establish total control:

1. McConnell's failure to put forth an up or down vote for Obama's nominee for the Supreme Court;
2. The Republican's massive effort to pack the Federal Court System with members of the Federalists Society.

 

[daveman]

The number one benefit of socialism is it that it gives government much more power over society. For libertarians, that's it's greatest drawback.

A benefit of socialism is you don't have to spend much time shopping for food.

 

[dblack]

And wouldn't it be a more interesting conversation if we all knew what the OP meant by socialism?

It would, and I've made the exact same argument, repeatedly, in these threads. But I've come to see this fixation on alternate definitions as a tactic to derail discussion, rather than an earnest attempt at clarity. It's used to tie people up in endless arguments on nomenclature, rather than discussing the principles involved. I don't give a shit whether people have differing criteria for what constitutes a "real" socialist economy. Maybe you don't see it as true socialism until everything is owned by the state. Someone else considers each and every encroachment on the economy as a socialist victory. What you call it is irrelevant. It's all generally the same stuff. And yes, we already have some. The question is whether we want more, or less.

 

[dblack]

Not only does the word not really mean anything any more, it doesn't scare people any more.

And that's been the goal of the obfuscation all along.

 

[Mac1958]

What you call it is irrelevant. It's all generally the same stuff. And yes, we already have some. The question is whether we want more, or less.

And that's the very point I make all the time, and I've made it on this thread: This stuff exists on a continuum. We might have more, we might have less. The task, then, is to determine where on that continuum would be the most acceptable for the most people.

Therefore, just screaming SOCIALISM is pointless when it's not an either/or situation in the first place.
.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Not only does the word not really mean anything any more, it doesn't scare people any more.

And that's been the goal of the obfuscation all along.

and you are part of the problem, your inability to say what it is just makes it less scary.

 

[georgephillip]

Let's defend socialism, shall we??
.

Could you define socialism for us?

It seems the best way to start such a discussion.

You're kidding, right???

socialism is State Ownership or Control of the means of production.

Under Marxism, Engels proposed the State Ownership of the MoP for a time. Until communism could take hold and the State would 'Whither away'. Of course, Marx also recommended an extended period of Capitalism before reverting to socialism. But I'm trying to dumb all this down for our USMB audience.

Under National Socialism (what too many uneducated IDIOTS call fascism) The State simply CONTROLLED the means of production.

Hitler once said, "I do not socialize things, I socialize people. What does it matter who owns the factories as long as they bend to the will of The State?"

He was quite right, of course.

There are several, many many in fact, forms of 'socialism' but they all entail one of those two requirements at some point. If not at the outset of the socialist disease, somewhere along the line the government will seize control.

So let's keep it simple. Like I said, it's Low IQ Theater in here.

You want a Primer. Try Draper's Two Souls of Socialism. After that, try some Kropotkin. That should keep you busy for a couple years.

socialism is State Ownership or Control of the means of production.

No, it's not "State Ownership or Control of the means of production"

Socialism - Wikipedia

"Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management,[10] as well as the political theories and movements associated with them.[11]

"Social ownership can be public, collective or cooperative ownership, or citizen ownership of equity."

Socialism means a majority of workers determine what, where, and when they produce as opposed to a small, rich minority of owners controlling the means of production.

 

[Rustic]

Let's defend socialism, shall we??
.

Could you define socialism for us?

It seems the best way to start such a discussion.

You're kidding, right???

socialism is State Ownership or Control of the means of production.

Under Marxism, Engels proposed the State Ownership of the MoP for a time. Until communism could take hold and the State would 'Whither away'. Of course, Marx also recommended an extended period of Capitalism before reverting to socialism. But I'm trying to dumb all this down for our USMB audience.

Under National Socialism (what too many uneducated IDIOTS call fascism) The State simply CONTROLLED the means of production.

Hitler once said, "I do not socialize things, I socialize people. What does it matter who owns the factories as long as they bend to the will of The State?"

He was quite right, of course.

There are several, many many in fact, forms of 'socialism' but they all entail one of those two requirements at some point. If not at the outset of the socialist disease, somewhere along the line the government will seize control.

So let's keep it simple. Like I said, it's Low IQ Theater in here.

You want a Primer. Try Draper's Two Souls of Socialism. After that, try some Kropotkin. That should keep you busy for a couple years.

socialism is State Ownership or Control of the means of production.

No, it's not "State Ownership or Control of the means of production"

Socialism - Wikipedia

"Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management,[10] as well as the political theories and movements associated with them.[11]

"Social ownership can be public, collective or cooperative ownership, or citizen ownership of equity."

Socialism means a majority of workers determine what, where, and when they produce as opposed to a small, rich minority of owners controlling the means of production.

 

[dblack]

and you are part of the problem, your inability to say what it is just makes it less scary.

Nah, I'm just tired of the stupid shell games.

But I'm bored, so I'll indulge you. Here's the one I'd like to talk about:

What is Democratic Socialism?
Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

I like this because it really gets to the core of what socialists are after, without splitting hairs and without avoiding the core issue. It's all summed up in the first line: "Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically."

This is antithetical to my core political beliefs. I believe that neither society, nor the economy, should be run democratically.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

They're still asking people to define socialism .
why are you so scared of a word and system thats not defined to a progressives liking ? this time it'll be different

 

[georgephillip]

Let's defend socialism, shall we??
.

Could you define socialism for us?

It seems the best way to start such a discussion.

You're kidding, right???

socialism is State Ownership or Control of the means of production.

Under Marxism, Engels proposed the State Ownership of the MoP for a time. Until communism could take hold and the State would 'Whither away'. Of course, Marx also recommended an extended period of Capitalism before reverting to socialism. But I'm trying to dumb all this down for our USMB audience.

Under National Socialism (what too many uneducated IDIOTS call fascism) The State simply CONTROLLED the means of production.

Hitler once said, "I do not socialize things, I socialize people. What does it matter who owns the factories as long as they bend to the will of The State?"

He was quite right, of course.

There are several, many many in fact, forms of 'socialism' but they all entail one of those two requirements at some point. If not at the outset of the socialist disease, somewhere along the line the government will seize control.

So let's keep it simple. Like I said, it's Low IQ Theater in here.

You want a Primer. Try Draper's Two Souls of Socialism. After that, try some Kropotkin. That should keep you busy for a couple years.

socialism is State Ownership or Control of the means of production.

No, it's not "State Ownership or Control of the means of production"

Socialism - Wikipedia

"Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management,[10] as well as the political theories and movements associated with them.[11]

"Social ownership can be public, collective or cooperative ownership, or citizen ownership of equity."

Socialism means a majority of workers determine what, where, and when they produce as opposed to a small, rich minority of owners controlling the means of production.

The GOP Wants to Crack Down on Tax Evasion — Among the Working Poor
Socialism for the rich?

 

[dblack]

"socialism is today's boggieman, it is what anything anybody does not like is called, thus rendering the word meaningless, and also at the same time taking the stigma away from socialism"
It should be today's "boogieman" shouldn't it?
Again, it is what it is and there's really no way to spin it. Here it is again......
“Some get fucked and most get free shit from those being fucked. The middle man (.GOV) decides the details / rules in the game of Fuck Or Be Fucked....That’s socialism without spin.”

Yes, it should be. But when anything and everything is labeled as socialism ...

Examples?

 

[francoHFW]

Let's defend socialism, shall we??

Exercise.

Under socialism, you can count on getting plenty of exercise.

The Kommissars will make sure of that...

13 Gut-Wrenching Facts About Being Held Prisoner In The Soviet Gulags

A drug-free America.

Your socialist masters will frown on drug dealing

How China Deals With Drug Dealers

Free Health Care. One thing you can count on under socialism is free Health Care. And it's worth every cent

Once Again: The Real Cuban Health Care System

Then there's the low cost of electricity and food in socialist Countries. In fact, in many cases it's free because -- There isn't any.

Think I'm kidding? Just ask any current resident of that Socialist Paradise in Venezuela. Go ahead, I dare you.

Of course, due to the brilliance of socialists, you won't have to work very much at all. Everybody knows that the only reason you have to work is so 'The Man' can enslave you anyway.

So that will give you lots of time to hang out with your friends......

Waiting in line.

For Food. And Water. And, in the Country with WORLD'S LARGEST KNOWN OIL RESERVES -- Gasoline.

Venezuela- the Socialism Hotspot- no Beer, no food (video) - Uncle Sam's Misguided Children

This pic is nearly 4 years old. It's gotten worse since then. Much worse. Much, much worse.

But that's okay. One thing we can count on from our socialist parasites is, once this system completely collapses, once it falls flat on its face, socialists will be back to once again inform us of our stupidity for not embracing The Benefits of Socialism.

That is communism. You are the only people in the world still talking about socialism is communism super duper. Stupidest voters in the world GOP voters. Socialism is faire capitalism with a good safety-net as in all other modern countries but us. Healthcare daycare paid parental leave living wage good infrastructure and great vacations cheap college and training for opportunity. Not so bad dipstick.You are also the only party in the world that believes in flat tax, you brainwashed functional morons, and we already have that now thanks to the scumbag GOP and you silly dupes. It wrecks the country in the middle class with lack of opportunity. That's why we have the worst inequality and upward Mobility ever and anywhere. You idiots don't know that but you know so many details of imaginary scandals that law enforcement and journalists have proven ridiculous. Every one in the world thinks you're nuts.