Debate Now The Case for Reparations Goes Beyond Slavery....Pt.2

[IM2]

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There are way too many misguided and ignorant notions about reparations. Reparations would be demanded from the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT for policies enacted by the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. The policies created by the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT were not done to exclude single individuals, nor did single individuals decide to implement the policies by themselves.

The rules-This is a policy discussion. We will discuss studies/laws/policies and the implications of such on black communities. Nothing else.

Kat
katsteve2012
NewsVine_Mariyam
MarcATL
Asclepias
flacaltenn
Crepitus
Dont Taz Me Bro
Erinwltr
OldLady
Paul Essen
Meister
Coyote

OK I'll do this again.
History of reparations in the United States
Reparations—a system of redress for egregious injustices—are not foreign to the United States. Native Americans have received land and billions of dollars for various benefits and programs for being forcibly exiled from their native lands. For Japanese Americans, $1.5 billion was paid to those who were interned during World War II. Additionally, the United States, via the Marshall Plan, helped to ensure that Jews received reparations for the Holocaust, including making various investments over time. In 1952, West Germany agreed to pay 3.45 billion Deutsche Marks to Holocaust survivors.

Black Americans are the only group that has not received reparations for state-sanctioned racial discrimination, while slavery afforded some white families the ability to accrue tremendous wealth. And, we must note that American slavery was particularly brutal. About 15 percent of the enslaved shipped from Western Africa died during transport. The enslaved were regularly beaten and lynched for frivolous infractions. Slavery also disrupted families as one in three marriages were split up and one in five children were separated from their parents. The case for reparations can be made on economic, social, and moral grounds. The United States had multiple opportunities to atone for slavery—each a missed chance to make the American Dream a reality—but has yet to undertake significant action.

Missed policy opportunities to atone for slavery with reparations
40 Acres and a Mule

The first major opportunity that the United States had and where it should have atoned for slavery was right after the Civil War. Union leaders including General William Sherman concluded that each Black family should receive 40 acres. Sherman signed Field Order 15 and allocated 400,000 acres of confiscated Confederate land to Black families. Additionally, some families were to receive mules left over from the war, hence 40 acres and a mule.

Yet, after President Abraham Lincoln’s assassination, President Andrew Johnson reversed Field Order 15 and returned land back to former slave owners. Instead of giving Blacks the means to support themselves, the federal government empowered former enslavers. For example, in Washington D.C., slave owners were actually paid reparations for lost property—the formally enslaved. This practice was also common in nearby states. Many Black Americans with limited work options returned as sharecroppers to till the same land for the very slave owners to whom they were once enslaved. Slave owners not only made money off the chattel enslavement of Black Americans, but they then made money multiple times over off the land that the formerly enslaved had no choice but to work.

The New Deal

There’s never a bad time to do what’s morally right, but the United States has had prime opportunities to atone for slavery. In the 1930s, the United States was reeling from the 1929 stock market crash and was firmly engulfed in the Great Depression. The Franklin Roosevelt administration implemented a series of policies as part of his New Deal legislation, estimated to cost roughly $50 billion then, to catapult the country out of depression. Current estimates price the New Deal at about $50 trillion.

Two particular policies of the New Deal fell short in redressing American’s racial wrongs—the G.I. Bill and Social Security. Though white and Black Americans fought in WWII, Black veterans could not redeem their post-war benefits like their white peers. While the G.I. Bill was mandated federally, it was implemented locally. The presence of racial housing covenants and redlining among local municipalities prohibited Blacks from utilizing federal benefits. White soldiers were afforded the opportunity to build wealth by sending themselves and their children to college and by obtaining housing and small business grants.

Regarding Social Security, two key professions that would have improved equity in America were excluded from the legislation—domestic and farm workers. These omissions effectively excluded 60 percent of Blacks across the U.S. and 75 percent in southern states who worked in these occupations. Roosevelt bargained these exclusionary provisions in the legislation on the backs of Black veterans and workers in order to propel mostly white America out of the Great Depression.

There are other policies and practices that contributed to racial wealth gap. Government-sanctioned discrimination related to the 1862 Homestead Act, redlining, restrictive covenants, and convict leasing blocked Blacks from the ability to gain wealth at similar rates as whites. Separate from slavery, damages should be awarded to Black people who were harmed by these policies and practices.

Why we need reparations for Black Americans | Brookings

Rashawn Ray and Andre Perry outline the history of reparations in the United States, missed opportunities to redress the racial wealth gap, and specific details for a viable reparations package for Black Americans.

www.brookings.edu

 

[IM2]

This is an Invite Only thread. If your member name does not appear in the alert call list -- DO NOT POST HERE -- do not even use the rating buttons on posts in this thread.

All who violate this rule will be immediately reported.

 

[IM2]

By rule, the structured debate zone is invitation only. If you have not been invited please leave the thread.

These are the people who have been invited.

Kat
katsteve2012
NewsVine_Mariyam
MarcATL
Asclepias
flacaltenn
Crepitus
Dont Taz Me Bro
Erinwltr
OldLady
Paul Essen
Meister
Coyote

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Interesting, now there is no one here and some of our best work is gone.

 

[IM2]

Interesting, now there is no one here and some of our best work is gone.

The trolls killed the last thread.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Interesting, now there is no one here and some of our best work is gone.

The trolls killed the last thread.

Why did they delete our content?

 

[IM2]

Because uninvited people were responding.

 

[OldLady]

I read the first thread to get a sense of IM's argument. I agree with Coyote that reparations are a form of healing and I have nothing against it in the hypothetical sense. Blacks have been screwed over in this country since they were first brought here as slaves. IM does a good job of outlining some of those ways.

What I'm really not sure about is the WAY reparations will be handled. IM (and Asclepias, iirc) are advocating for an individual check to each black person in this country whose ancestors or themselves were impacted by slavery or other discriminatory legislation that prevented them from accumulating wealth. I see tremendous burdens placed on both the black people applying and on the agency administering who is eligible for a check.

Having done genealogy, I can tell you that tracing and documenting your ancestry back to a slave in 1864 is going to be a real bitch for a lot of people. Slaves were not identified by name. A lot of families do not have much interest in stories about the older generations, and the information was not passed down. Professional genealogists ain't cheap and they don't make any promises either. That's my first objection here. It's going to be very difficult if not impossible for a lot of people to "prove" their ancestor was a slave.

Many of the other programs IM listed that were discriminatory would have happened to an earlier generation, wouldn't they? How do I document that my grandfather was unable to take advantage of a program he would have liked to participate in, if he was never able to apply for it? Or am I reading that wrong? If those programs applied to all Americans, we might as well just say that ALL blacks lost out. Just as ALL blacks in this country were harmed by the institution of slavery and the legal segregation that followed.

Reparations have been made to some Native American tribes, such as the four in Maine, but those reparations were given to the tribes to manage. The tribes already had a confirmed list of tribal members and the money was spent/distributed according to the tribes' best judgment. Japanese American descendants would not have a difficult time proving they were related to people living in the 1940's. Birth certificates are readily available. It was also a lot less folks than we are talking about with black Americans.

Since the black community is not a cohesive tribe that already has established membership and because documentation could be so burdensome, would it be more sensible to allocate a good deal of money or opportunity grants or something like that to some of the larger institutions and organizations that advocate for and support the black community, like the NAACP, the UNCF, whatever else is out there--I'm not that familiar with what they might be.

It's not as much fun as getting a fat check in the mail, but it might allow for a lot of investment and community improvement if it is directed properly, and it would obviously benefit those who need it the most rather than -- like someone said -- mailing a check to millionaires.

 

[IM2]

I am going to leave a link to the 1968 Kerner Commission Report and the Economic Policy Instututes 2018 Report up for few days. Please read them.

Thank you.

http://www.eisenhowerfoundation.org/docs/kerner.pdf

50 years after the Kerner Commission: African Americans are better off in many ways but are still disadvantaged by racial inequality

The 1968 Kerner Commission report pulled together a comprehensive array of data on the specific economic and social inequities confronting African Americans at that time. How have things changed (or not) for black Americans in the 50 years since?

www.epi.org

 

[IM2]

I read the first thread to get a sense of IM's argument. I agree with Coyote that reparations are a form of healing and I have nothing against it in the hypothetical sense. Blacks have been screwed over in this country since they were first brought here as slaves. IM does a good job of outlining some of those ways.

What I'm really not sure about is the WAY reparations will be handled. IM (and Asclepias, iirc) are advocating for an individual check to each black person in this country whose ancestors or themselves were impacted by slavery or other discriminatory legislation that prevented them from accumulating wealth. I see tremendous burdens placed on both the black people applying and on the agency administering who is eligible for a check.

Having done genealogy, I can tell you that tracing and documenting your ancestry back to a slave in 1864 is going to be a real bitch for a lot of people. Slaves were not identified by name. A lot of families do not have much interest in stories about the older generations, and the information was not passed down. Professional genealogists ain't cheap and they don't make any promises either. That's my first objection here. It's going to be very difficult if not impossible for a lot of people to "prove" their ancestor was a slave.

Many of the other programs IM listed that were discriminatory would have happened to an earlier generation, wouldn't they? How do I document that my grandfather was unable to take advantage of a program he would have liked to participate in, if he was never able to apply for it? Or am I reading that wrong? If those programs applied to all Americans, we might as well just say that ALL blacks lost out. Just as ALL blacks in this country were harmed by the institution of slavery and the legal segregation that followed.

Reparations have been made to some Native American tribes, such as the four in Maine, but those reparations were given to the tribes to manage. The tribes already had a confirmed list of tribal members and the money was spent/distributed according to the tribes' best judgment. Japanese American descendants would not have a difficult time proving they were related to people living in the 1940's. Birth certificates are readily available. It was also a lot less folks than we are talking about with black Americans.

Since the black community is not a cohesive tribe that already has established membership and because documentation could be so burdensome, would it be more sensible to allocate a good deal of money or opportunity grants or something like that to some of the larger institutions and organizations that advocate for and support the black community, like the NAACP, the UNCF, whatever else is out there--I'm not that familiar with what they might be.

It's not as much fun as getting a fat check in the mail, but it might allow for a lot of investment and community improvement if it is directed properly, and it would obviously benefit those who need it the most rather than -- like someone said -- mailing a check to millionaires.

I think the guys at the Brookings are talking about a combination of things. I think block grants to black community development corporations for a specified number of years to build infrastructure and businesses in black communities that hire from those communities , free college or technical schools and a generational tax credit or 30 year tax abatement for black families can be done. The determination really isn't all that hard once the reparations are determined to include laws and policies after slavery. But what whites must understand is than individual checks must be part of this. Blacks lost income and it is not our fault that records were not kept. It is also not our fault we were not cohesive tribes. We did not separate families which created the lack of cohesion.

Every black person living today has been impacted by laws made after slavery. The purposeful exclusion of blacks in the new deal and GI Bill are the main cause of wealth inequality for blacks today.

 

[Coyote]

I’ll repost what I posted before.

was visiting my mother in NC over the past week, when John Lewis died. Between our discussions, the many talks on Lewis, his history, his legacy and events such as Bloody Sunday, the white race riots, Jim Crowe and it's legacy on the history of black America - I have given some very serious thought to reparations.

My initial reaction has always been - no - and HELL NO. And I've stated such on here before. Because I think as an individual. We Americans are very individualistic. We loath the idea of a "forced" collective responsibility, whether it's for our vulnerable population, or for the actions of our ancestors for whom we had no control over. I don't think this is because we are "racist", it's because that is a part of American culture - individualism and individual responsibility.

I also listened to a commentary by a German, who since immigrated to America. He was talking about his grandparents, how he couldn't understand HOW they could have supported the Nazi's, how deeply ashamed he was of what his people had done. He talked about how Germany handled reparations with an entire culture change and what reparations really meant. Reparations - to Repair. You can't change the past, you can't bring those lives back. All you can do is try to address the present, issue a sincere apology and attach to it a physical token of that sincerity. You can never fully quantify the loss in human life, wealth and property, unpaid wages, loss of unrealized potential, unrealized education, and the still present and difficult to quantify income inequalities.

The idea of reparations has both a moral aspect...and a policy aspect. I have had time to really think on things, and in particular conversations I have had with Shusha on religion (and I hope she does not mind my mentioning this and will correct me where I am wrong) - it percolated for a long time. The idea that even though we are not individually responsible we are collectively responsible and that reparations are a way of acknowledging that, and coming terms with our history and atonement. It's a way of saying I'm sorry for what my people (white Americans) did to your people black Americans) and asking for forgiveness. It's a way of moving forward as well.

But it's not just a moral argument, it's a policy one as well. My Mom made a comment that started the chain of thought: "....we also should owe reparations to the native Americans for the many treaties that were broken" and that led me to rethink reparations and broken promises.

One such was at the end of the Civil War, when the government promised every freed slave "40 acres and a mule" that was to come out of the vast confederate land holdings. This promise was very quickly reversed and very few slaves received the benefits. At the same time, the government was opening up Native American territory in the west to (white) settlers - 115 acres to a claim (or thereabouts).

That is one concrete example, but it is followed by a thousand and more incidents (such as the race riots that destroyed black business' and property, ultimately preventing them from accumulating wealth to pass on) and the legal authorities that allowed them to happen without the means for legal redress or protection.

I strongly felt we owed reparations to the Japanese Americans for what we did (collectively as a nation). I feel we still owe reparations to the many native tribes who's treaties (we as a nation) broke. How and in what form such reparations would take I have no idea...but it's a way of acknowledging past wrong and healing.

If we can feel and do so for other groups, why not for the descendants of slaves in this country? The legacy of slavery went far beyond the end of slavery. It's brutality remains TODAY in LIVING MEMORY. There are men alive who were part of the Tuskeegee Syphillis experiments. There are people alive who were beaten senseless by police when they marched for voting rights. There are people alive who remember segregated vending machines, hotels that didn't cater to blacks, and segregated schools. So...it's not really a distant past.

Why not reparations?

 

[flacaltenn]

Interesting, now there is no one here and some of our best work is gone.

Problem was Mariyam -- the rules for CREATING an Invite thread were not followed. Without including that BOLD RED warning that's required as the 1st content in the OP -- about 20 members lept on the thread NOT KNOWING --- it was Invite Only.. We tried to save it -- but most of the content was replying to UNinvited people and had to be removed.

We're OK here now.. We can do this thing.. I've counseled A LOT of members about WHY this option exists and why they should respect it...

 

[flacaltenn]

This is an Invite Only thread. If your member name does not appear in the alert call list -- DO NOT POST HERE -- do not even use the rating buttons on posts in this thread.

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We are opening the Invite Only threads in this forum. You may continue to post threads under the OLD structured debate rules OR identify the thread as Invite Only as given in the auxiliary rules below.. READ THEM CAREFULLY. There have been a couple edits since the Announcement of the feature...

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There are way too many misguided and ignorant notions about reparations. Reparations would be demanded from the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT for policies enacted by the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. The policies created by the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT were not done to exclude single individuals, nor did single individuals decide to implement the policies by themselves.

The rules-This is a policy discussion. We will discuss studies/laws/policies and the implications of such on black communities. Nothing else.

Kat
katsteve2012
NewsVine_Mariyam
MarcATL
Asclepias
flacaltenn
Crepitus
Dont Taz Me Bro
Erinwltr
OldLady
Paul Essen
Meister
Coyote

OK I'll do this again.
History of reparations in the United States
Reparations—a system of redress for egregious injustices—are not foreign to the United States. Native Americans have received land and billions of dollars for various benefits and programs for being forcibly exiled from their native lands. For Japanese Americans, $1.5 billion was paid to those who were interned during World War II. Additionally, the United States, via the Marshall Plan, helped to ensure that Jews received reparations for the Holocaust, including making various investments over time. In 1952, West Germany agreed to pay 3.45 billion Deutsche Marks to Holocaust survivors.

Black Americans are the only group that has not received reparations for state-sanctioned racial discrimination, while slavery afforded some white families the ability to accrue tremendous wealth. And, we must note that American slavery was particularly brutal. About 15 percent of the enslaved shipped from Western Africa died during transport. The enslaved were regularly beaten and lynched for frivolous infractions. Slavery also disrupted families as one in three marriages were split up and one in five children were separated from their parents. The case for reparations can be made on economic, social, and moral grounds. The United States had multiple opportunities to atone for slavery—each a missed chance to make the American Dream a reality—but has yet to undertake significant action.

Missed policy opportunities to atone for slavery with reparations
40 Acres and a Mule

The first major opportunity that the United States had and where it should have atoned for slavery was right after the Civil War. Union leaders including General William Sherman concluded that each Black family should receive 40 acres. Sherman signed Field Order 15 and allocated 400,000 acres of confiscated Confederate land to Black families. Additionally, some families were to receive mules left over from the war, hence 40 acres and a mule.

Yet, after President Abraham Lincoln’s assassination, President Andrew Johnson reversed Field Order 15 and returned land back to former slave owners. Instead of giving Blacks the means to support themselves, the federal government empowered former enslavers. For example, in Washington D.C., slave owners were actually paid reparations for lost property—the formally enslaved. This practice was also common in nearby states. Many Black Americans with limited work options returned as sharecroppers to till the same land for the very slave owners to whom they were once enslaved. Slave owners not only made money off the chattel enslavement of Black Americans, but they then made money multiple times over off the land that the formerly enslaved had no choice but to work.

The New Deal

There’s never a bad time to do what’s morally right, but the United States has had prime opportunities to atone for slavery. In the 1930s, the United States was reeling from the 1929 stock market crash and was firmly engulfed in the Great Depression. The Franklin Roosevelt administration implemented a series of policies as part of his New Deal legislation, estimated to cost roughly $50 billion then, to catapult the country out of depression. Current estimates price the New Deal at about $50 trillion.

Two particular policies of the New Deal fell short in redressing American’s racial wrongs—the G.I. Bill and Social Security. Though white and Black Americans fought in WWII, Black veterans could not redeem their post-war benefits like their white peers. While the G.I. Bill was mandated federally, it was implemented locally. The presence of racial housing covenants and redlining among local municipalities prohibited Blacks from utilizing federal benefits. White soldiers were afforded the opportunity to build wealth by sending themselves and their children to college and by obtaining housing and small business grants.

Regarding Social Security, two key professions that would have improved equity in America were excluded from the legislation—domestic and farm workers. These omissions effectively excluded 60 percent of Blacks across the U.S. and 75 percent in southern states who worked in these occupations. Roosevelt bargained these exclusionary provisions in the legislation on the backs of Black veterans and workers in order to propel mostly white America out of the Great Depression.

There are other policies and practices that contributed to racial wealth gap. Government-sanctioned discrimination related to the 1862 Homestead Act, redlining, restrictive covenants, and convict leasing blocked Blacks from the ability to gain wealth at similar rates as whites. Separate from slavery, damages should be awarded to Black people who were harmed by these policies and practices.

Why we need reparations for Black Americans | Brookings

Rashawn Ray and Andre Perry outline the history of reparations in the United States, missed opportunities to redress the racial wealth gap, and specific details for a viable reparations package for Black Americans.

www.brookings.edu

Pretty depressing picture of the past -- but accurate in facts.. Some of the assertions however, aren't that clear..

Trying to reparate while the dishonor and offenses ARE STILL ACCUMULATING just isn't practical.. At the time of New Deal -- it would be over 40 years before the FUNDAMENTAL govt issues with Civil Rights would begin to be resolved. So damages were ACCRUING faster than a one time payment during the New Deal would have fixed..

Similar logical failings on the GI bill housing issues. The war itself was an awakening of racial disparity and justice. But it took another decade or so for that to sink in because of all the post war trauma that had to be resolved. Main point on GI bill is that it should NEVER have been considered as reparations, because those payments were DUE AND PAYABLE at time of discharge for service and valor. Would NEVER be reparations beyond the service for which it was awarded.. Reparations would be in EXCESS of those benefits..

Housing covenants still linger today, but are now unenforceable. And in most of these cases, its ALL COMPLETELY GOVERNMENT failures to "do the right thing" not a collective debt from the general public who then and now -- have little REAL effect on political reform because of the priorities of politicians and parties...

 

[flacaltenn]

I think the guys at the Brookings are talking about a combination of things. I think block grants to black community development corporations for a specified number of years to build infrastructure and businesses in black communities that hire from those communities , free college or technical schools and a generational tax credit or 30 year tax abatement for black families can be done.

We're already entertaining the concept of "free" college and college debt pardons.. So you're not probably gonna get it if EVERYONE doesn't -- if at all..

Like the concept of block grants to black communities. But it requires buy-ins from industries and corporations to actually happen to any great degree.. If the money is administered LOCALLY, the larger half is gonna disappear from graft and corruption.. Where they would WORK is in basic infrastructure.. Education, public transit, financing better justice interfaces to the public in black communities..

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

The most workable of those points would be tax abatement.. But just like the rest of all tax problems, you CANNOT do that equally and the RICH blacks would benefit more. Venus and Serena Williams are on Wheaties boxes, they do not NEED "tax abatement".. And in reality, folks on the edge of economic ruin DO NOT PAY any Fed taxes other than payroll FICA...

 

[flacaltenn]

That's not even counting the DOZENS of inner city development grants and minority owned business grants that have existed for DECADES now...

 

[IM2]

This is an Invite Only thread. If your member name does not appear in the alert call list -- DO NOT POST HERE -- do not even use the rating buttons on posts in this thread.

Debate Now - Trial for "Invite Only" threads in Structured Debate Forum

We are opening the Invite Only threads in this forum. You may continue to post threads under the OLD structured debate rules OR identify the thread as Invite Only as given in the auxiliary rules below.. READ THEM CAREFULLY. There have been a couple edits since the Announcement of the feature...

www.usmessageboard.com

There are way too many misguided and ignorant notions about reparations. Reparations would be demanded from the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT for policies enacted by the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. The policies created by the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT were not done to exclude single individuals, nor did single individuals decide to implement the policies by themselves.

The rules-This is a policy discussion. We will discuss studies/laws/policies and the implications of such on black communities. Nothing else.

Kat
katsteve2012
NewsVine_Mariyam
MarcATL
Asclepias
flacaltenn
Crepitus
Dont Taz Me Bro
Erinwltr
OldLady
Paul Essen
Meister
Coyote

OK I'll do this again.
History of reparations in the United States
Reparations—a system of redress for egregious injustices—are not foreign to the United States. Native Americans have received land and billions of dollars for various benefits and programs for being forcibly exiled from their native lands. For Japanese Americans, $1.5 billion was paid to those who were interned during World War II. Additionally, the United States, via the Marshall Plan, helped to ensure that Jews received reparations for the Holocaust, including making various investments over time. In 1952, West Germany agreed to pay 3.45 billion Deutsche Marks to Holocaust survivors.

Black Americans are the only group that has not received reparations for state-sanctioned racial discrimination, while slavery afforded some white families the ability to accrue tremendous wealth. And, we must note that American slavery was particularly brutal. About 15 percent of the enslaved shipped from Western Africa died during transport. The enslaved were regularly beaten and lynched for frivolous infractions. Slavery also disrupted families as one in three marriages were split up and one in five children were separated from their parents. The case for reparations can be made on economic, social, and moral grounds. The United States had multiple opportunities to atone for slavery—each a missed chance to make the American Dream a reality—but has yet to undertake significant action.

Missed policy opportunities to atone for slavery with reparations
40 Acres and a Mule

The first major opportunity that the United States had and where it should have atoned for slavery was right after the Civil War. Union leaders including General William Sherman concluded that each Black family should receive 40 acres. Sherman signed Field Order 15 and allocated 400,000 acres of confiscated Confederate land to Black families. Additionally, some families were to receive mules left over from the war, hence 40 acres and a mule.

Yet, after President Abraham Lincoln’s assassination, President Andrew Johnson reversed Field Order 15 and returned land back to former slave owners. Instead of giving Blacks the means to support themselves, the federal government empowered former enslavers. For example, in Washington D.C., slave owners were actually paid reparations for lost property—the formally enslaved. This practice was also common in nearby states. Many Black Americans with limited work options returned as sharecroppers to till the same land for the very slave owners to whom they were once enslaved. Slave owners not only made money off the chattel enslavement of Black Americans, but they then made money multiple times over off the land that the formerly enslaved had no choice but to work.

The New Deal

There’s never a bad time to do what’s morally right, but the United States has had prime opportunities to atone for slavery. In the 1930s, the United States was reeling from the 1929 stock market crash and was firmly engulfed in the Great Depression. The Franklin Roosevelt administration implemented a series of policies as part of his New Deal legislation, estimated to cost roughly $50 billion then, to catapult the country out of depression. Current estimates price the New Deal at about $50 trillion.

Two particular policies of the New Deal fell short in redressing American’s racial wrongs—the G.I. Bill and Social Security. Though white and Black Americans fought in WWII, Black veterans could not redeem their post-war benefits like their white peers. While the G.I. Bill was mandated federally, it was implemented locally. The presence of racial housing covenants and redlining among local municipalities prohibited Blacks from utilizing federal benefits. White soldiers were afforded the opportunity to build wealth by sending themselves and their children to college and by obtaining housing and small business grants.

Regarding Social Security, two key professions that would have improved equity in America were excluded from the legislation—domestic and farm workers. These omissions effectively excluded 60 percent of Blacks across the U.S. and 75 percent in southern states who worked in these occupations. Roosevelt bargained these exclusionary provisions in the legislation on the backs of Black veterans and workers in order to propel mostly white America out of the Great Depression.

There are other policies and practices that contributed to racial wealth gap. Government-sanctioned discrimination related to the 1862 Homestead Act, redlining, restrictive covenants, and convict leasing blocked Blacks from the ability to gain wealth at similar rates as whites. Separate from slavery, damages should be awarded to Black people who were harmed by these policies and practices.

Why we need reparations for Black Americans | Brookings

Rashawn Ray and Andre Perry outline the history of reparations in the United States, missed opportunities to redress the racial wealth gap, and specific details for a viable reparations package for Black Americans.

www.brookings.edu

Pretty depressing picture of the past -- but accurate in facts.. Some of the assertions however, aren't that clear..

Trying to reparate while the dishonor and offenses ARE STILL ACCUMULATING just isn't practical.. At the time of New Deal -- it would be over 40 years before the FUNDAMENTAL govt issues with Civil Rights would begin to be resolved. So damages were ACCRUING faster than a one time payment during the New Deal would have fixed..

Similar logical failings on the GI bill housing issues. The war itself was an awakening of racial disparity and justice. But it took another decade or so for that to sink in because of all the post war trauma that had to be resolved. Main point on GI bill is that it should NEVER have been considered as reparations, because those payments were DUE AND PAYABLE at time of discharge for service and valor. Would NEVER be reparations beyond the service for which it was awarded.. Reparations would be in EXCESS of those benefits..

Housing covenants still linger today, but are now unenforceable. And in most of these cases, its ALL COMPLETELY GOVERNMENT failures to "do the right thing" not a collective debt from the general public who then and now -- have little REAL effect on political reform because of the priorities of politicians and parties...

These are excuses flacaltenn. The government made the laws and you cannot excuse this with your attempt to try separating the government from the general public.

 

[IM2]

That's not even counting the DOZENS of inner city development grants and minority owned business grants that have existed for DECADES now...

As a person who battled city governments in 3 cities advocating for programs and organizations in majority black communities, if all this money was given as you want to claim things would be better than they are. But what has happened is these organizations get the minimum and white women are considered minorities. And there are a lot of smaller cities and towns with black populations that don't have cdc's.

 

[IM2]

I think the guys at the Brookings are talking about a combination of things. I think block grants to black community development corporations for a specified number of years to build infrastructure and businesses in black communities that hire from those communities , free college or technical schools and a generational tax credit or 30 year tax abatement for black families can be done.

We're already entertaining the concept of "free" college and college debt pardons.. So you're not probably gonna get it if EVERYONE doesn't -- if at all..

Like the concept of block grants to black communities. But it requires buy-ins from industries and corporations to actually happen to any great degree.. If the money is administered LOCALLY, the larger half is gonna disappear from graft and corruption.. Where they would WORK is in basic infrastructure.. Education, public transit, financing better justice interfaces to the public in black communities..

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

The most workable of those points would be tax abatement.. But just like the rest of all tax problems, you CANNOT do that equally and the RICH blacks would benefit more. Venus and Serena Williams are on Wheaties boxes, they do not NEED "tax abatement".. And in reality, folks on the edge of economic ruin DO NOT PAY any Fed taxes other than payroll FICA...

You are looking for excuses. Rich blacks have faced racism too. However income eligibility can be a part of all this to ease the minds of butthurt whites who have benefitted from government programs that blacks paid into and did not reap the benefits of.

 

[Coyote]

I think the guys at the Brookings are talking about a combination of things. I think block grants to black community development corporations for a specified number of years to build infrastructure and businesses in black communities that hire from those communities , free college or technical schools and a generational tax credit or 30 year tax abatement for black families can be done.

We're already entertaining the concept of "free" college and college debt pardons.. So you're not probably gonna get it if EVERYONE doesn't -- if at all..

Like the concept of block grants to black communities. But it requires buy-ins from industries and corporations to actually happen to any great degree.. If the money is administered LOCALLY, the larger half is gonna disappear from graft and corruption.. Where they would WORK is in basic infrastructure.. Education, public transit, financing better justice interfaces to the public in black communities..

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

The most workable of those points would be tax abatement.. But just like the rest of all tax problems, you CANNOT do that equally and the RICH blacks would benefit more. Venus and Serena Williams are on Wheaties boxes, they do not NEED "tax abatement".. And in reality, folks on the edge of economic ruin DO NOT PAY any Fed taxes other than payroll FICA...

You are looking for excuses. Rich blacks have faced racism too. However income eligibility can be a part of all this to ease the minds of butthurt whites who have benefitted from government programs that blacks paid into and did not reap the benefits of.

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

I think that is a valid point. There are many small town/rural black communities. How would they get a fair share?

 

[IM2]

I think the guys at the Brookings are talking about a combination of things. I think block grants to black community development corporations for a specified number of years to build infrastructure and businesses in black communities that hire from those communities , free college or technical schools and a generational tax credit or 30 year tax abatement for black families can be done.

We're already entertaining the concept of "free" college and college debt pardons.. So you're not probably gonna get it if EVERYONE doesn't -- if at all..

Like the concept of block grants to black communities. But it requires buy-ins from industries and corporations to actually happen to any great degree.. If the money is administered LOCALLY, the larger half is gonna disappear from graft and corruption.. Where they would WORK is in basic infrastructure.. Education, public transit, financing better justice interfaces to the public in black communities..

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

The most workable of those points would be tax abatement.. But just like the rest of all tax problems, you CANNOT do that equally and the RICH blacks would benefit more. Venus and Serena Williams are on Wheaties boxes, they do not NEED "tax abatement".. And in reality, folks on the edge of economic ruin DO NOT PAY any Fed taxes other than payroll FICA...

You are looking for excuses. Rich blacks have faced racism too. However income eligibility can be a part of all this to ease the minds of butthurt whites who have benefitted from government programs that blacks paid into and did not reap the benefits of.

Problem with block grants is that they are almost EXCLUSIVELY applicable to dense packed urban solutions.. Folks in rural and the 'burbs' would never get their fair share..

I think that is a valid point. There are many small town/rural black communities. How would they get a fair share?

Far too many people look for reasons why it can't be done. Not saying you are doing that Coyote but rules for eligibility can be attached to this. Like for example the grant could go to a CDC. Blacks could be taught in those small towns how to form a CDC and then they could become eligible for grants.