The Death of the American Pension

[WorldWatcher]

You don't know what you're talking about. A newly hired cop can make over $100,000 a year with overtime. It's reported in the news, ya know. They can retire in 20 years, full pension, that goes up every year. Only now is my city addressing the burden it puts on taxpayers. I've seen it firsthand

Just MHO of course, but "overtime" shouldn't be included as part of retirement.

The ability of some selected EEs to pump income for the final years to increase pensions should be allowed.

WW

 

[martybegan]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bad mouthing 401Ks.

If you are a higher wage earner, contribute religiously, and start young it is often possible to have 401K assets that can generate income exceeding typical defined benefit pensions.

The problem is that they are voluntary and as a result something lower income earners find out of reach.

WW

The problem is with increasing lifespans, the defined contribution plan has the glaring hole of being just that, contributions limited. Pool that with multiple people in the same plan and you get the bane of any investment manager, unknowns.

 

[80zephyr]

It is simply not true they are "better off with 401ks" - because people borrow against them, cash them out and stop contributing to them.
The vast-vast-vast majority of everyday people are nowhere NEAR responsible enough to manage their retirement funds.
I have said it 100 times for the past 15 years or so... by the year 2040 - it will become normal again for old people to HAVE to live with their children, because they will be broke.

I have a cousin that worked a "30 years and out" job. He retired at 48. For two months. Then the company paying his pension went bankrupt. He just retired from being a janitor at 65.

EVERY program has their warts. At least with a 401, its YOUR money.

 

[odanny]

And this is part of the problem.

People that want to call government pensions "Cadillac programs" always (or most always) go to the top people and say "hey, look out this chief of police makes". In addition they don't recognize differences in cost of living by region. All to throw out large numbers when those numbers don't apply to the vast majority of government employees.

The Instruction Assistant's is $23,099.59 per year. Secretaries about $43836.77. (Tidewater Virginia)

WW

I believe teachers are a different kettle of fish, based on their pensions replacing social security. Not sure of the details and don't want to expand on something I don't know much about, but if you don't contribute to SS, you obviously need to have some income after 65.

For some/most people, their SS will be only slightly larger than my measly pension.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I believe teachers are a different kettle of fish, based on their pensions replacing social security. Not sure of the details and don't want to expand on something I don't know much about, but if you don't contribute to SS, you obviously need to have some incomes after 65. For most people, their SS will be only slightly larger than my measly pension.

I'm in the same retirement system as our teachers.

Our pension does not replace Social Security, we pay into both a pension fund and pay into Social Security/Medicare.

The light blue state are ones where public employees still pay into Social Security. (Not there are some individual school districts that may have also opt'ed out of Social Security in the 1950's.)

WW

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I believe teachers are a different kettle of fish, based on their pensions replacing social security. Not sure of the details and don't want to expand on something I don't know much about, but if you don't contribute to SS, you obviously need to have some income after 65.

For some/most people, their SS will be only slightly larger than my measly pension.

I have a personal example for you. I retired at age 61 for health reasons. I was a teacher and in KY you do not contribute to SS. There were 10 years of my work history there was no contribution to SS, but I went to work as a government contractor and paid SS for the last 4 years. When I retired for SS purposes, my benefits were reduced for SS because of that gap, and I was ineligible for Medicare. I draw a state pension from teaching in Florida of less than $500 a month for the 10 years I taught there. I did also get $1500 a month SS before I was determined to be disabled, and now my SS is $2100 a month, which is a month which is the amount for my normal retirement age.

Teachers are definitely a definite kettle of fish depending on where they work. Medical care is another interesting story regarding Medicare too.

 

[Harry Dresden]

You don't know what you're talking about. A newly hired cop can make over $100,000 a year with overtime. It's reported in the news, ya know. They can retire in 20 years, full pension, that goes up every year. Only now is my city addressing the burden it puts on taxpayers. I've seen it firsthand

im talking about the PO....

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The biggest culprit is paying for children's college.

Daddy Buying Dummy a Job

As absurd and anti-talent as "saving money to get my kid on the college football team" would be if we didn't care about the caliber of college sports.

 

[initforme]

The economy needs people retiring earlier, not in their 60s.

 

[Woodznutz]

The economy needs people retiring earlier, not in their 60s.

I'm 84 and still working. So shoot me.

 

[Captain Caveman]

33,000 Boeing machinists and other employees on strike are being offered pay raises and these employees are asking that pensions be reinstated, something that Boeing eliminated in 2014. I'm surprised that pensions lasted that long there, they were eliminated by my employer in 1998.

The truth is, they are not going to get them back. The UAW ended them for auto workers in 2007. The 401K retirement plan is what you get today, and over half of Americans contribute to this new retirement model. I believe it is 61% of workers. That needs to be 100%. When employers say that you are better off with a 401K style retirement plan, that is actually true, but these take time, and it is important to start early to maximize gains.




One of the most painful issues dividing labor and management in the strike at Boeing is the loss of the traditional pension plan for union members in 2014.

The dispute has echoes of past labor disputes at Boeing, and at other companies, where workers have lost what used to be a key part of their retirement security. Employers have made, and won, demands to shift the risks associated with their workers’ retirements from their own bottom lines, to the retirees themselves.

Now unions are pushing back, demanding the return of traditional pension plans their members lost in past concession deals. That’s one of the reasons 33,000 members of the International Association of Machinists went on strike Friday after 95% voted against the tentative labor deal that would have increased the money Boeing paid into their 401(k) but would not have restored the traditional pension plan they lost 10 years ago. Restoring pension plans was an initially stated goal of the IAM, but they were not in the deal reached and rejected last week.

Jon Holden, the president of the largest union local at Boeing, said right after the vote to go on strike Thursday night that it wasn’t any one issue, but that “I know that many members haven’t healed from that wound” of losing the pension plans.

But the fact is that the traditional pension plans, once a staple of the retirement of many workers, have become exceedingly rare in the modern American workplace. And once a company drops traditional pensions plans to shift employees to a 401(k) type of retirement account, they are almost always gone for good.

While other unions have also sought to have lost pension plans restored, as the United Auto Workers union did during its successful strike at General Motors, Ford and Stellantis last fall, no American union has ever succeeded in bringing them back. Even though the auto strike produced a deal with record pay raises and other gains for the UAW, it did not restore pension plans to workers hired since 2007.

Employers frequently argue that employees and retirees can be better off with a 401(k) type of retirement plan, especially if their investments do well. During the UAW strike at the three unionized American automakers last fall, Ford CFO John Lawler called the traditional pension plans being sought by the union “a plan of the past.”

Boeing union members are angry they lost their pension plan. They’re not likely to get it back

One of the most painful issues dividing labor and management in the strike at Boeing is the loss of the traditional pension plan for union members in 2014.

finance.yahoo.com

I know for a fact in the UK you wouldn't be able to get an old styled final salary pension because they're simply too expensive these days. People live longer so fund values have to be so high for it generate sufficient income to pay pensions. The employer where you get the better pensions is in the public sector, paid by the taxpayer. My son works in the local council and the percentage contribution the council puts into his pension is staggering.

 

[odanny]

I know for a fact in the UK you wouldn't be able to get an old styled final salary pension because they're simply too expensive these days. People live longer so fund values have to be so high for it generate sufficient income to pay pensions. The employer where you get the better pensions is in the public sector, paid by the taxpayer. My son works in the local council and the percentage contribution the council puts into his pension is staggering.

Why are there so many men from the U.K. retiring in places like Thailand in their 40's and not having to work? They all are getting some kind of state pension. You won't see men that age living there from the U.S. because they would never be getting a pension in their 40's (unless they were police officers or in the military)

 

[Captain Caveman]

Why are there so many men from the U.K. retiring in places like Thailand in their 40's and not having to work? They all are getting some kind of state pension. You won't see men that age living there from the U.S. because they would never be getting a pension in their 40's (unless they were police officers or in the military)

I think the maximum state pension is £221.20 per week, or about £11,500 per year. So anyone on that life style will have other pensions/income sources.

 

[odanny]

I think the maximum state pension is £221.20 per week, or about £11,500 per year. So anyone on that life style will have other pensions/income sources.

U.K. pensions:

 

[Woodznutz]

The economy needs people retiring earlier, not in their 60s.

Fewer are prepared for retirement as it is, so it's going the other way.

What went wrong?​

"If you can't afford to retire, it's almost certainly because you don't have enough money saved. If that's the case, you're definitely not alone. The average American is terrible about saving money in general and saving for retirement specifically; a recent GoBankingRates survey found that 55% of workers have less than $10,000 saved for retirement."

Can't Afford to Retire? Here's What to Do | The Motley Fool

If you've hit your planned retirement date but don't have enough money saved to retire, following this four-step plan can get you the funds you need.

www.fool.com

 

[martybegan]

I'm 84 and still working. So shoot me.

My grandfather did tax returns every year for people until he died at 102.

 

[martybegan]

The economy needs people retiring earlier, not in their 60s.

Why?

In Engineering many people just switch to part time on call, as companies don't want to lose the accumulated knowledge they possess, even after they don't want to work 40 hours a week anymore.

 

[Woodznutz]

Why?

In Engineering many people just switch to part time on call, as companies don't want to lose the accumulated knowledge they possess, even after they don't want to work 40 hours a week anymore.

"Accumulated knowledge". I like it!

 

[martybegan]

"Accumulated knowledge". I like it!

About 15 years ago we had an issue with setting weir heights for a wastewater tank overflow, spent a week trying to figure it out. Sent for the old guy who works 10-20 hours a week as a troubleshooter, he figured it out in 2 days. We implemented the fix and it worked.

 

[Zebra]

33,000 Boeing machinists and other employees on strike are being offered pay raises and these employees are asking that pensions be reinstated, something that Boeing eliminated in 2014. I'm surprised that pensions lasted that long there, they were eliminated by my employer in 1998.

The truth is, they are not going to get them back. The UAW ended them for auto workers in 2007. The 401K retirement plan is what you get today, and over half of Americans contribute to this new retirement model. I believe it is 61% of workers. That needs to be 100%. When employers say that you are better off with a 401K style retirement plan, that is actually true, but these take time, and it is important to start early to maximize gains.




One of the most painful issues dividing labor and management in the strike at Boeing is the loss of the traditional pension plan for union members in 2014.

The dispute has echoes of past labor disputes at Boeing, and at other companies, where workers have lost what used to be a key part of their retirement security. Employers have made, and won, demands to shift the risks associated with their workers’ retirements from their own bottom lines, to the retirees themselves.

Now unions are pushing back, demanding the return of traditional pension plans their members lost in past concession deals. That’s one of the reasons 33,000 members of the International Association of Machinists went on strike Friday after 95% voted against the tentative labor deal that would have increased the money Boeing paid into their 401(k) but would not have restored the traditional pension plan they lost 10 years ago. Restoring pension plans was an initially stated goal of the IAM, but they were not in the deal reached and rejected last week.

Jon Holden, the president of the largest union local at Boeing, said right after the vote to go on strike Thursday night that it wasn’t any one issue, but that “I know that many members haven’t healed from that wound” of losing the pension plans.

But the fact is that the traditional pension plans, once a staple of the retirement of many workers, have become exceedingly rare in the modern American workplace. And once a company drops traditional pensions plans to shift employees to a 401(k) type of retirement account, they are almost always gone for good.

While other unions have also sought to have lost pension plans restored, as the United Auto Workers union did during its successful strike at General Motors, Ford and Stellantis last fall, no American union has ever succeeded in bringing them back. Even though the auto strike produced a deal with record pay raises and other gains for the UAW, it did not restore pension plans to workers hired since 2007.

Employers frequently argue that employees and retirees can be better off with a 401(k) type of retirement plan, especially if their investments do well. During the UAW strike at the three unionized American automakers last fall, Ford CFO John Lawler called the traditional pension plans being sought by the union “a plan of the past.”

Boeing union members are angry they lost their pension plan. They’re not likely to get it back

One of the most painful issues dividing labor and management in the strike at Boeing is the loss of the traditional pension plan for union members in 2014.

finance.yahoo.com

And why was it so?