The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[abi]

This claim I have seen so oft-repeated appears to be simply that. It is a claim that was popularized in a propaganda video put out by Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. As a bonus, another young lady comes on to explain the claim that the six day war was fought in self defense. It is only six minutes long and I would love the opportunity for academic discussion of these topics. For example, if something is factually incorrect, please state why, and post a source for the correction. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Shusha]

Point 1. "Referred to the area as Palestine". Sure. It has been referred to as a bunch of things over the past several thousand years. Including Israel, Judea and Samaria. The fact that a territory is referenced by a name does not grant sovereignty or create a state. For example, there is a territory in the US called Appalachia. It has been called that for hundreds of years. Does that make it a State? Does that reference give the people of Appalachia some sort of rights to sovereignty? Of course not. But what if the people of Appalachia wanted independence and self-determination and sovereignty? How would that happen? Just by calling themselves Appalachians? Or does something else have to happen?

Point 2. JC was NOT a Palestinian any more than Moses was an Ottoman.

Point 3. She is a hypocrite when talks about denial of the existence of a people. See point 2. By labelling JC a Palestinian she is denying the reality of the time and the existence of his people and the sovereignty of the place he was living at the time.

 

[abi]

Point 1. "Referred to the area as Palestine". Sure. It has been referred to as a bunch of things over the past several thousand years. Including Israel, Judea and Samaria. The fact that a territory is referenced by a name does not grant sovereignty or create a state. For example, there is a territory in the US called Appalachia. It has been called that for hundreds of years. Does that make it a State? Does that reference give the people of Appalachia some sort of rights to sovereignty? Of course not. But what if the people of Appalachia wanted independence and self-determination and sovereignty? How would that happen? Just by calling themselves Appalachians? Or does something else have to happen?

So, there in fact were Palestinians?

Point 2. JC was NOT a Palestinian any more than Moses was an Ottoman.

I am pretty sure that Bethlehem is in Palestine. What are you trying to say?

Point 3. She is a hypocrite when talks about denial of the existence of a people. See point 2. By labelling JC a Palestinian she is denying the reality of the time and the existence of his people and the sovereignty of the place he was living at the time.

Huh?

 

[theHawk]

Just because some Jews lie, doesn’t mean we should beleive or respect Muslims.

As for Palestine, you lost a war, deal with it and move out if you don’t like your oppressors.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This claim I have seen so oft-repeated appears to be simply that. It is a claim that was popularized in a propaganda video put out by Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. As a bonus, another young lady comes on to explain the claim that the six day war was fought in self defense. It is only six minutes long and I would love the opportunity for academic discussion of these topics. For example, if something is factually incorrect, please state why, and post a source for the correction. Thanks in advance for any help.

Can she tell us why there were no Americans in 1500?

 

[Hossfly]

Point 1. "Referred to the area as Palestine". Sure. It has been referred to as a bunch of things over the past several thousand years. Including Israel, Judea and Samaria. The fact that a territory is referenced by a name does not grant sovereignty or create a state. For example, there is a territory in the US called Appalachia. It has been called that for hundreds of years. Does that make it a State? Does that reference give the people of Appalachia some sort of rights to sovereignty? Of course not. But what if the people of Appalachia wanted independence and self-determination and sovereignty? How would that happen? Just by calling themselves Appalachians? Or does something else have to happen?

So, there in fact were Palestinians?

Point 2. JC was NOT a Palestinian any more than Moses was an Ottoman.

I am pretty sure that Bethlehem is in Palestine. What are you trying to say?

Point 3. She is a hypocrite when talks about denial of the existence of a people. See point 2. By labelling JC a Palestinian she is denying the reality of the time and the existence of his people and the sovereignty of the place he was living at the time.

Huh?

Sure there was a Palestine. It was invented in the 1960s in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader, Arafat, was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.

 

[Shusha]

So, there in fact were Palestinians?

Well that all depends on how you define the term. As Danny pointed out, there was no State of Palestine in 1948 or in 1967 nor anytime prior to about 1988 if you want to go with their declaration of independence. So, if we define "Palestinian" as a nationality -- no, there were no Palestinians at the time and I would argue that there aren't any now since "Palestine" is not fully recognized as a State.

If you want to define "Palestinians" as an ethnic or cultural group, you'd be hard pressed to do so as there is little ethnic or cultural differentiation between them and Jordanians and Syrians, beyond minor regional differences in dialect or embroidery patterns on women's clothing. And, indeed, the Palestinians themselves will say there is no difference between themselves and the Jordanians and Syrians.

If you want to define them as a political group -- they came into existence somewhere in the late 1960s when they began to differentiate themselves from their surrounding Arab neighbors.

If you want to define them by their place name, as "the people who lived in this territory and the people who were removed from this territory over the course of time" then the Palestinians include the world's Jews and could as easily be called Judeans, Galileans, Samarians and Israelites. As a matter of fact, why don't we start calling them Judeans?

I am pretty sure that Bethlehem is in Palestine. What are you trying to say?

Bethlehem is in Judea.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Point 1. "Referred to the area as Palestine". Sure. It has been referred to as a bunch of things over the past several thousand years. Including Israel, Judea and Samaria. The fact that a territory is referenced by a name does not grant sovereignty or create a state. For example, there is a territory in the US called Appalachia. It has been called that for hundreds of years. Does that make it a State? Does that reference give the people of Appalachia some sort of rights to sovereignty? Of course not. But what if the people of Appalachia wanted independence and self-determination and sovereignty? How would that happen? Just by calling themselves Appalachians? Or does something else have to happen?

So, there in fact were Palestinians?

Point 2. JC was NOT a Palestinian any more than Moses was an Ottoman.

I am pretty sure that Bethlehem is in Palestine. What are you trying to say?

Point 3. She is a hypocrite when talks about denial of the existence of a people. See point 2. By labelling JC a Palestinian she is denying the reality of the time and the existence of his people and the sovereignty of the place he was living at the time.

Huh?

I am pretty sure that Bethlehem is in Palestine. What are you trying to say?

A Jewish guy named Jesus was born in Palestine before Islam existed?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Point 1. "Referred to the area as Palestine". Sure. It has been referred to as a bunch of things over the past several thousand years. Including Israel, Judea and Samaria. The fact that a territory is referenced by a name does not grant sovereignty or create a state. For example, there is a territory in the US called Appalachia. It has been called that for hundreds of years. Does that make it a State? Does that reference give the people of Appalachia some sort of rights to sovereignty? Of course not. But what if the people of Appalachia wanted independence and self-determination and sovereignty? How would that happen? Just by calling themselves Appalachians? Or does something else have to happen?

So, there in fact were Palestinians?

Point 2. JC was NOT a Palestinian any more than Moses was an Ottoman.

I am pretty sure that Bethlehem is in Palestine. What are you trying to say?

Point 3. She is a hypocrite when talks about denial of the existence of a people. See point 2. By labelling JC a Palestinian she is denying the reality of the time and the existence of his people and the sovereignty of the place he was living at the time.

Huh?

Sure there was a Palestine. It was invented in the 1960s in a conference room at 1 Lubyanka, Dzershinsky Place, Red Square, Moscow, CCCP. It came complete with a "Palestinian people" too. In fact, its legacy leader, Arafat, was trained east of Moscow at the legendary Balashikha special-ops school.

Arafat, abi's favorite gay Egyptian.

 

[Boston1]

This ones funny, OK so when the king of Jordan says Jordan is palestine and palestine is Jordan then, um, its not true LOL

Deal is there was a geographical location referred to by SOME as palestine that is now referred to as Jordan.......

End of subject

 

[teddyearp]

When Jesus was born, Bethlehem was in Judea. The area was Judea, Samaria, Galilee, etc. It was 100 or so after Jesus died that the romans changed the name to spite the residents; who were Jews.

Your request for intellectual thought is hard to believe when you start from such a biased point of view and then when presented with contrary facts, you ignore them.

 

[Shusha]

The whole discussion of whether or not Palestinians exist (like the counter-argument of whether or not "real" Jews exist) is a foolish one and should be put to rest.

Whether you call the place where JC was born two thousand years ago Judea or Rome or Palestine or Appalachia is a matter of correct history, but not one of international law.

 

[montelatici]

Stop your propaganda.

"Canaan was the name of a large and prosperous country (at times independent, at others a tributary to Egypt) which corresponds roughly to present-day Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Israel and was also known as Phoenicia.

The indigenous people of the land of Canaan worshiped many gods but, chief among them, the goddess Astarte and her consort Baal (considered vegetative/fertility deities who then took on more impressive attributes earlier ascribed to Sumerian gods such as Enlil). Women could and did serve as Priestesses, could own land, enter into contracts and initiate divorce. By the second millennium BCE Byblos was the great exporter of cedar from Mount Lebannon and of papyrus (the name of the Bible comes from the Greek word Byblosfor `Book, a reference to the city which supplied the surrounding nations, especially Egypt, with the papyrus to write on) and Tyre was a great industrial centre producing highly sought after purple garments made from the purple dye of Murex shells and the city of Sidon, also engaged in similar trade, was a great centre of learning. The Canaanites (Phoenicians) developed the first alphabetic writing system, mathematics, were renowned in the ancient world for their skill in ship building and navigating the seas and have also been cited as the early source or inspiration for the mythology of the Greek gods. "

Canaan

 

[Sixties Fan]

Stop your propaganda.

"Canaan was the name of a large and prosperous country (at times independent, at others a tributary to Egypt) which corresponds roughly to present-day Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Israel and was also known as Phoenicia.

The indigenous people of the land of Canaan worshiped many gods but, chief among them, the goddess Astarte and her consort Baal (considered vegetative/fertility deities who then took on more impressive attributes earlier ascribed to Sumerian gods such as Enlil). Women could and did serve as Priestesses, could own land, enter into contracts and initiate divorce. By the second millennium BCE Byblos was the great exporter of cedar from Mount Lebannon and of papyrus (the name of the Bible comes from the Greek word Byblosfor `Book, a reference to the city which supplied the surrounding nations, especially Egypt, with the papyrus to write on) and Tyre was a great industrial centre producing highly sought after purple garments made from the purple dye of Murex shells and the city of Sidon, also engaged in similar trade, was a great centre of learning. The Canaanites (Phoenicians) developed the first alphabetic writing system, mathematics, were renowned in the ancient world for their skill in ship building and navigating the seas and have also been cited as the early source or inspiration for the mythology of the Greek gods. "

Canaan

Canaan, a country!!!!

ROTFLOL

Tell it again!!!!!

 

[P F Tinmore]

This claim I have seen so oft-repeated appears to be simply that. It is a claim that was popularized in a propaganda video put out by Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. As a bonus, another young lady comes on to explain the claim that the six day war was fought in self defense. It is only six minutes long and I would love the opportunity for academic discussion of these topics. For example, if something is factually incorrect, please state why, and post a source for the correction. Thanks in advance for any help.

Can she tell us why there were no Americans in 1500?

Good question. What were native Americans called before it was America? Were they a different people? Did they just not exist?

 

[JoelT1]

Stop your propaganda.

"Canaan was the name of a large and prosperous country (at times independent, at others a tributary to Egypt) which corresponds roughly to present-day Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Israel and was also known as Phoenicia.

The indigenous people of the land of Canaan worshiped many gods but, chief among them, the goddess Astarte and her consort Baal (considered vegetative/fertility deities who then took on more impressive attributes earlier ascribed to Sumerian gods such as Enlil). Women could and did serve as Priestesses, could own land, enter into contracts and initiate divorce. By the second millennium BCE Byblos was the great exporter of cedar from Mount Lebannon and of papyrus (the name of the Bible comes from the Greek word Byblosfor `Book, a reference to the city which supplied the surrounding nations, especially Egypt, with the papyrus to write on) and Tyre was a great industrial centre producing highly sought after purple garments made from the purple dye of Murex shells and the city of Sidon, also engaged in similar trade, was a great centre of learning. The Canaanites (Phoenicians) developed the first alphabetic writing system, mathematics, were renowned in the ancient world for their skill in ship building and navigating the seas and have also been cited as the early source or inspiration for the mythology of the Greek gods. "

Canaan

Jews were Canaanites. Now you know. Archeologists Unearth 'Golden Calf' in Israel

Ancient Israel The Mesha Stele | Louvre Museum | Paris

 

[JoelT1]

Palestine never existed.

Ancient Israel etched in stone The Mesha Stele | Louvre Museum | Paris

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine never existed.

Ancient Israel etched in stone The Mesha Stele | Louvre Museum | Paris

Lie, lie, lie, Israel is based on lies.

The case raised the issue of the status of those concessions following the demise of the Turkish empire, meaning that the PCIJ needed to determine what kind of entity had replaced Turkey in the territory of Palestine. The Court said that Palestine was a successor state to Turkey.

http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
------------------------
Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​

The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

 

[Hollie]

This claim I have seen so oft-repeated appears to be simply that. It is a claim that was popularized in a propaganda video put out by Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. As a bonus, another young lady comes on to explain the claim that the six day war was fought in self defense. It is only six minutes long and I would love the opportunity for academic discussion of these topics. For example, if something is factually incorrect, please state why, and post a source for the correction. Thanks in advance for any help.

Can she tell us why there were no Americans in 1500?

Good question. What were native Americans called before it was America? Were they a different people? Did they just not exist?

Good question. Did the native Americans invade the area, impose their religious values on others, force the dhimmi status on those they invaded?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Palestine never existed.

Ancient Israel etched in stone The Mesha Stele | Louvre Museum | Paris

Lie, lie, lie, Israel is based on lies.

The case raised the issue of the status of those concessions following the demise of the Turkish empire, meaning that the PCIJ needed to determine what kind of entity had replaced Turkey in the territory of Palestine. The Court said that Palestine was a successor state to Turkey.

http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
------------------------
Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​

The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

Ooops !!! you are on the wrong thread with that answer.