The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[Toddsterpatriot]

This claim I have seen so oft-repeated appears to be simply that. It is a claim that was popularized in a propaganda video put out by Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. As a bonus, another young lady comes on to explain the claim that the six day war was fought in self defense. It is only six minutes long and I would love the opportunity for academic discussion of these topics. For example, if something is factually incorrect, please state why, and post a source for the correction. Thanks in advance for any help.

Can she tell us why there were no Americans in 1500?

Good question. What were native Americans called before it was America? Were they a different people? Did they just not exist?

What were native Americans called before it was America?

Americans were British.

"Palestinians" were Arabs.

 

[JoelT1]

Palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and their land of Israel, about 2000 years ago, reflecting the ancient Jewish heritage and history of the land as the indigenous People,

The Dean of Middle East historians further educates

 

[JoelT1]

2000 years ago, Jesus, devout Jew, was called King of Israel in the Bible and walked in the land of Israel. Jews lived in Israel 1000+ years before Jesus

The word palestine does not appear in the Bible as it’s not the correct, legitimate, indigenous name

 

[JoelT1]

Ancient shekel of Israel minted by Jews, the indigenous People, a few decades after Jesus, himself a devout Jew Ancient Jewish Silver Shekel Coin from Year 1 of the First Revolt - 66 AD

 

[JoelT1]

Palestine never existed.

Ancient Israel etched in stone The Mesha Stele | Louvre Museum | Paris

Lie, lie, lie, Israel is based on lies.

The case raised the issue of the status of those concessions following the demise of the Turkish empire, meaning that the PCIJ needed to determine what kind of entity had replaced Turkey in the territory of Palestine. The Court said that Palestine was a successor state to Turkey.

http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
------------------------
Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​

The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

Palestine originated as a Roman name imposed on Jews and ancient Israel.

Later, Britain named the British Mandate “palestine” that ceased to exist in 1948 with Israeli statehood

Thus, palestine is a Western colonialist invention

 

[JoelT1]

Palestine never existed.

Ancient Israel etched in stone The Mesha Stele | Louvre Museum | Paris

Lie, lie, lie, Israel is based on lies.

The case raised the issue of the status of those concessions following the demise of the Turkish empire, meaning that the PCIJ needed to determine what kind of entity had replaced Turkey in the territory of Palestine. The Court said that Palestine was a successor state to Turkey.

http://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=mjil
------------------------
Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.”​

The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

“Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

As the preeminent scholar of Arab history writes, Arabs rejected the existence of palestine. So, too, they rejected the term “palestinian”

 

[abi]

Well that all depends on how you define the term. As Danny pointed out, there was no State of Palestine in 1948 or in 1967 nor anytime prior to about 1988 if you want to go with their declaration of independence. So, if we define "Palestinian" as a nationality -- no, there were no Palestinians at the time and I would argue that there aren't any now since "Palestine" is not fully recognized as a State.

If you want to define "Palestinians" as an ethnic or cultural group, you'd be hard pressed to do so as there is little ethnic or cultural differentiation between them and Jordanians and Syrians, beyond minor regional differences in dialect or embroidery patterns on women's clothing. And, indeed, the Palestinians themselves will say there is no difference between themselves and the Jordanians and Syrians.

If you want to define them as a political group -- they came into existence somewhere in the late 1960s when they began to differentiate themselves from their surrounding Arab neighbors.

If you want to define them by their place name, as "the people who lived in this territory and the people who were removed from this territory over the course of time" then the Palestinians include the world's Jews and could as easily be called Judeans, Galileans, Samarians and Israelites. As a matter of fact, why don't we start calling them Judeans?

Just let them be people and stop denying their existence and if you see your fellow pro-Israel posters do this, call them out. Be fair.

Bethlehem is in Judea.

Again, I am here for academic discussion and we don't use stories from the bible when discussing history in an academic environment.

The Jewish bible calls the area Judea, but the rest of the world knew that area as Palestine for centuries before Christ was born. Jesus was in fact born in Palestine. The Palestinian girl in the video was absolutely correct.

When Jesus was born, Bethlehem was in Judea. The area was Judea, Samaria, Galilee, etc. It was 100 or so after Jesus died that the romans changed the name to spite the residents; who were Jews.

Your request for intellectual thought is hard to believe when you start from such a biased point of view and then when presented with contrary facts, you ignore them.

See above, Teddy.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well that all depends on how you define the term. As Danny pointed out, there was no State of Palestine in 1948 or in 1967 nor anytime prior to about 1988 if you want to go with their declaration of independence. So, if we define "Palestinian" as a nationality -- no, there were no Palestinians at the time and I would argue that there aren't any now since "Palestine" is not fully recognized as a State.

If you want to define "Palestinians" as an ethnic or cultural group, you'd be hard pressed to do so as there is little ethnic or cultural differentiation between them and Jordanians and Syrians, beyond minor regional differences in dialect or embroidery patterns on women's clothing. And, indeed, the Palestinians themselves will say there is no difference between themselves and the Jordanians and Syrians.

If you want to define them as a political group -- they came into existence somewhere in the late 1960s when they began to differentiate themselves from their surrounding Arab neighbors.

If you want to define them by their place name, as "the people who lived in this territory and the people who were removed from this territory over the course of time" then the Palestinians include the world's Jews and could as easily be called Judeans, Galileans, Samarians and Israelites. As a matter of fact, why don't we start calling them Judeans?

Just let them be people and stop denying their existence and if you see your fellow pro-Israel posters do this, call them out. Be fair.

Bethlehem is in Judea.

Again, I am here for academic discussion and we don't use stories from the bible when discussing history in an academic environment.

The Jewish bible calls the area Judea, but the rest of the world knew that area as Palestine for centuries before Christ was born. Jesus was in fact born in Palestine. The Palestinian girl in the video was absolutely correct.

When Jesus was born, Bethlehem was in Judea. The area was Judea, Samaria, Galilee, etc. It was 100 or so after Jesus died that the romans changed the name to spite the residents; who were Jews.

Your request for intellectual thought is hard to believe when you start from such a biased point of view and then when presented with contrary facts, you ignore them.

See above, Teddy.

DERP!

 

[teddyearp]

Abi, what is your source to back your claim that the area was known as Palestine "centuries before Christ"? It is not only the bible that called the area Judea.

 

[Shusha]

Just let them be people and stop denying their existence and if you see your fellow pro-Israel posters do this, call them out. Be fair.

To be fair, I HAVE been calling out Joel. But he bores me, repeating the same thing over and over and over.

Again, I am here for academic discussion and we don't use stories from the bible when discussing history in an academic environment.

LOL. Says the girl who brought up JC in the first place -- a person unknown in history other than from the Bible, btw.

The Jewish bible calls the area Judea, but the rest of the world knew that area as Palestine for centuries before Christ was born. Jesus was in fact born in Palestine. The Palestinian girl in the video was absolutely correct.

Why don't you take some of your own advice and just the Jewish people be people and stop denying their existence. And if you see your fellow anti-Israeli posters do this, call them out. Starting with you.

The name of the territory in history has nothing to do with the rights of the TWO very distinct peoples who are now both asking for self-determination and sovereignty. Why don't you post on the solutions thread and give us an idea of how you would solve the conflict.

 

[teddyearp]

Yes abi, I'll ask again, what is your solution to the conflict?

 

[teddyearp]

Abi, what is your source to back your claim that the area was known as Palestine "centuries before Christ"? It is not only the bible that called the area Judea.

Yes abi, I'll ask again, what is your solution to the conflict?

For someone who wanted honest and intelligent discussion, all I hear now is crickets . . . . doesn't seem very honest to me. Nor academic.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Goodness, gracious, sakes alive.

What those of us who were paying attention to the actual events in 1967 really need is some brainwashed young girl who wasn't even close to being alive at the time telling us what really went down.

 

[P F Tinmore]

This claim I have seen so oft-repeated appears to be simply that. It is a claim that was popularized in a propaganda video put out by Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. As a bonus, another young lady comes on to explain the claim that the six day war was fought in self defense. It is only six minutes long and I would love the opportunity for academic discussion of these topics. For example, if something is factually incorrect, please state why, and post a source for the correction. Thanks in advance for any help.

The girl in the video – DANA DAJANI

 

[Hollie]

A woman with no talent.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

This claim I have seen so oft-repeated appears to be simply that. It is a claim that was popularized in a propaganda video put out by Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. As a bonus, another young lady comes on to explain the claim that the six day war was fought in self defense. It is only six minutes long and I would love the opportunity for academic discussion of these topics. For example, if something is factually incorrect, please state why, and post a source for the correction. Thanks in advance for any help.

The girl in the video – DANA DAJANI

Her hair is not covered.
Why isn't she being beaten?

 

[fanger]

This claim I have seen so oft-repeated appears to be simply that. It is a claim that was popularized in a propaganda video put out by Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. As a bonus, another young lady comes on to explain the claim that the six day war was fought in self defense. It is only six minutes long and I would love the opportunity for academic discussion of these topics. For example, if something is factually incorrect, please state why, and post a source for the correction. Thanks in advance for any help.

The girl in the video – DANA DAJANI

Her hair is not covered.
Why isn't she being beaten?

I knew we were in trouble the moment I saw the letter on the official United Talmudical Academy stationary in the mail. The letter was curt and stated unequivocally that because of my failure to dress in accordance with the stringent tznius, modesty, rules of the holy shtetl, our 3-year-old son could no longer attend school. After the shock wore off, my husband and I scrambled to arrange a meeting with the Va’ad Hatznius — the mysterious group charged with maintaining the highest standards of modesty, especially for women. The group was known to resort to extreme measures, such as slashing car tires, when warnings and threats did not work to restore modesty.



As I sat at the table with the Va’ad Hatznius, the head of the group told my husband and me that it could no longer tolerate my modern clothing. This is a holy shtetl, and the rebbe would be horrified if he were still alive, he said in Yiddish, while swaying side to side in his folding chair. Another man chimed in to say he also heard that I have bei-hur, a derisive term used to describe hair on a married woman. They couldn’t confirm it, he said, but oy vey to my family and me. What a disgrace.

Read more: Ex-Hasidic Woman Marks Five Years Since She Shaved Her Head

 

[teddyearp]

abi What happened to you? Why do you not answer honest questions that have been posed to you in this thread? In another thread you said you are not some kid that I can lie about. Well then defend your statements.

Again. What is your source of your claim that Judea was called Palestine centuries before Christ?

 

[fanger]

abi What happened to you? Why do you not answer honest questions that have been posed to you in this thread? In another thread you said you are not some kid that I can lie about. Well then defend your statements.

Again. What is your source of your claim that Judea was called Palestine centuries before Christ?

The first clear use of the term Palestine to refer to the entire area between Phoenicia and Egypt was in 5th century BC Ancient Greece,[7][8] when Herodotus wrote of a "district of Syria, called Palaistinê" in The Histories, which included the Judean mountains and theJordan Rift Valley.[9][10][11][12][13][14] In the treatise Meteorology c.340 BC, Aristotle wrote, "there is a lake in Palestine".[15][16][17][18] This is understood by scholars to be a reference to the Dead Sea.
Timeline of the name "Palestine" - Wikipedia

 

[Roudy]

This claim I have seen so oft-repeated appears to be simply that. It is a claim that was popularized in a propaganda video put out by Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. As a bonus, another young lady comes on to explain the claim that the six day war was fought in self defense. It is only six minutes long and I would love the opportunity for academic discussion of these topics. For example, if something is factually incorrect, please state why, and post a source for the correction. Thanks in advance for any help.

Interesting, piece of bullshit propaganda. And now for the truth, from the mouth of Arabs and so called Palestinians themselves:

Palestinians are the newest of all the peoples on the face of the Earth, and began to exist in a single day by a kind of supernatural phenomenon that is unique in the whole history of mankind, as it is witnessed by a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against:

“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.

The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name, but adopted and adapted from the Latin Palæstina . How can an Arab people have a western name instead of one in their own language? Because the use of the term "Palestinian" for an Arab group is only a modern political creation without any historic or ethnic grounds, and did not indicate any people before 1967. An Arab writer and journalist declared:


"There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today... No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough".
- Joseph Farah, "Myths of the Middle East" -

Let us hear what other Arabs have said:

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:
"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".

What other Arabs declared after the Six-Day War:

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -

"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -

"As I lived in Palestine, everyone I knew could trace their heritage back to the original country their great grandparents came from. Everyone knew their origin was not from the Canaanites, but ironically, this is the kind of stuff our education in the Middle East included. The fact is that today's Palestinians are immigrants from the surrounding nations! I grew up well knowing the history and origins of today's Palestinians as being from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Christians from Greece, muslim Sherkas from Russia, muslims from Bosnia, and the Jordanians next door. My grandfather, who was a dignitary in Bethlehem, almost lost his life by Abdul Qader Al-Husseni (the leader of the Palestinian revolution) after being accused of selling land to Jews. He used to tell us that his village Beit Sahur (The Shepherds Fields) in Bethlehem County was empty before his father settled in the area with six other families. The town has now grown to 30,000 inhabitants".

-An "ex-Palestinian" terrorist.