The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinian claim as against Israel. The Jewish claim is against other countries.

They are separate issues.

no they balance out. They cancel each other out.
poker game; my debt to susan is cancelled out due to susans debt to john because john owes me money.

The Palestinians are not in the loop between the Jews and other countries. They had nothing to do with it.

Palestinian Arabs started a war against Palestinian Jews and they have nothing to do with it?
Yeh try again...

The Palestinians were at home. They did not go attack anybody.

I guess they just never botherd to tell you. Makes you feel rather unimportant, yes?

Where did they go?

 

[Hollie]

no they balance out. They cancel each other out.
poker game; my debt to susan is cancelled out due to susans debt to john because john owes me money.

The Palestinians are not in the loop between the Jews and other countries. They had nothing to do with it.

Palestinian Arabs started a war against Palestinian Jews and they have nothing to do with it?
Yeh try again...

The Palestinians were at home. They did not go attack anybody.

I guess they just never botherd to tell you. Makes you feel rather unimportant, yes?

Where did they go?

Who?

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians are not in the loop between the Jews and other countries. They had nothing to do with it.

Palestinian Arabs started a war against Palestinian Jews and they have nothing to do with it?
Yeh try again...

The Palestinians were at home. They did not go attack anybody.

I guess they just never botherd to tell you. Makes you feel rather unimportant, yes?

Where did they go?

Who?

Do try to keep up.

 

[rylah]

The Palestinians were at home. They did not go attack anybody.

Arabs started a war against Palestinian Jews, which resulted in loss of property in Israel and in all those neighboring countries.

Palestinian Arabs caused the most loss of property and got the most of the land under the mandate.

 

[Hollie]

Palestinian Arabs started a war against Palestinian Jews and they have nothing to do with it?
Yeh try again...

The Palestinians were at home. They did not go attack anybody.

I guess they just never botherd to tell you. Makes you feel rather unimportant, yes?

Where did they go?

Who?

Do try to keep up.

How quickly you get befuddled.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians were at home. They did not go attack anybody.

I guess they just never botherd to tell you. Makes you feel rather unimportant, yes?

Where did they go?

Who?

Do try to keep up.

How quickly you get befuddled.

You are the one who can't keep up.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians were at home. They did not go attack anybody.

Arabs started a war against Palestinian Jews, which resulted in loss of property in Israel and in all those neighboring countries.

Palestinian Arabs caused the most loss of property and got the most of the land under the mandate.

Does not address my post.

 

[Hollie]

I guess they just never botherd to tell you. Makes you feel rather unimportant, yes?

Where did they go?

Who?

Do try to keep up.

How quickly you get befuddled.

You are the one who can't keep up.

Nice duck.

 

[rylah]

The Palestinians were at home. They did not go attack anybody.

Arabs started a war against Palestinian Jews, which resulted in loss of property in Israel and in all those neighboring countries.

Palestinian Arabs caused the most loss of property and got the most of the land under the mandate.

Does not address my post.

Meanwhile it's You who keeps presenting self-defeating demands.

If Palestinian Arabs want compensation or return of their property they have first to compensate Palestinian Jews for a much bigger loss of property they caused.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The same system that created Syria, Jordan and Lebanon out of what You claim to have been one non separate land created Israel.

Arabs ended with the most of the land and property, Jews lost the most of the land an property they've lived on since time immemorial.

Q. Why do You want to separate the Jews in the wider context when talking about property rights of indigenous people? Is it because Arab claim becomes irrelevant and self-defeating?

The same system that created Syria, Jordan and Lebanon out of what You claim to have been one non separate land created Israel.

Link?

The land was carved by the same mandate system.
When discussing Arab migration from neighboring countries during the mandate period, I remember You stating something like "there was no migration, it was like a walk from one neighborhood to another".

If You need to be specific about that, I'll find that quotation.

I'm still waiting for You to explain, how Jewish loss of property has to be put in a special category?
I smell serious double standard here.

Before the Treaty of Lausanne, that whole area was one country.

What country?

Ottoman/Turkish Empire.

So the "Palestinians" should go home.....to Turkey!

Excellent idea, Ergodan seems like a very nice fellow.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians were at home. They did not go attack anybody.

Arabs started a war against Palestinian Jews, which resulted in loss of property in Israel and in all those neighboring countries.

Palestinian Arabs caused the most loss of property and got the most of the land under the mandate.

Does not address my post.

Meanwhile it's You who keeps presenting self-defeating demands.

Don't quote my post then blabber on about something else.

 

[rylah]

The Palestinians were at home. They did not go attack anybody.

Arabs started a war against Palestinian Jews, which resulted in loss of property in Israel and in all those neighboring countries.

Palestinian Arabs caused the most loss of property and got the most of the land under the mandate.

Does not address my post.

Meanwhile it's You who keeps presenting self-defeating demands.

Don't quote my post then blabber on about something else.

I don't see You refute anything of what I said.
Palestinian Arabs are responsible for causing the most loss of property in this conflict.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians were at home. They did not go attack anybody.

Arabs started a war against Palestinian Jews, which resulted in loss of property in Israel and in all those neighboring countries.

Palestinian Arabs caused the most loss of property and got the most of the land under the mandate.

Does not address my post.

Meanwhile it's You who keeps presenting self-defeating demands.

Don't quote my post then blabber on about something else.

I don't see You refute anything of what I said.
Palestinian Arabs caused the most loss of property in this conflict.

While at home?

 

[rylah]

Arabs started a war against Palestinian Jews, which resulted in loss of property in Israel and in all those neighboring countries.

Palestinian Arabs caused the most loss of property and got the most of the land under the mandate.

Does not address my post.

Meanwhile it's You who keeps presenting self-defeating demands.

Don't quote my post then blabber on about something else.

I don't see You refute anything of what I said.
Palestinian Arabs caused the most loss of property in this conflict.

While at home?

Yes while staring a war against Palestinian Jews and dispossessing them from the oldest communities, stripping them of property.

Palestinian Arabs are responsible for the most loss of property in this conflict.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Does not address my post.

Meanwhile it's You who keeps presenting self-defeating demands.

Don't quote my post then blabber on about something else.

I don't see You refute anything of what I said.
Palestinian Arabs caused the most loss of property in this conflict.

While at home?

Yes while staring a war against Palestinian Jews and dispossessing them from the oldest communities, stripping them from property.

Palestinian Arabs are responsible for the most loss of property in this conflict.

Going right over your head, I see.

 

[rylah]

Meanwhile it's You who keeps presenting self-defeating demands.

Don't quote my post then blabber on about something else.

I don't see You refute anything of what I said.
Palestinian Arabs caused the most loss of property in this conflict.

While at home?

Yes while staring a war against Palestinian Jews and dispossessing them from the oldest communities, stripping them from property.

Palestinian Arabs are responsible for the most loss of property in this conflict.

Going right over your head, I see.

I still don't see any contradiction of my claim.
I think we'll talk about reparations when I return from prayer.

 

[Coyote]

A

One religion building on another is not exactly new. What I have a problem with in terms of Muslims is when they want to claim it for Islam only, which they can't, but they are a sacred trust for 3 religions now.

What do you do?

1. You acknowledge the originating indigenous, aboriginal culture.
2. You remove yourself as much as possible from everything you have usurped.
3. You give the originating culture the space to honor their religion and worship as they need.
4. You ask permission of them to continue to use your holy spaces with mutual respect and dignity.

I disagree that it should be the one way street you seem to think it should and I think the uniqueness of this situation be recognized. I can’t think of any other situation where three very ancient religions, closely related, have strong ties to the same sacred areas and artifacts. It isn’t like some new found cult decided that the Cambodian Temp,es were part of their sacred landscape. The Holy Land, which is probably the best term for this area, is important to all three that it has been the flashpoint of so much senseless violence as a result of religious ties. However you might feel about the religions themselves, you can’t ignore this.

As a result it needs to be treated as a sacred space and the rights of all three respected, not demeaned by claims of usurption, over events more than a thousand years in the past. The people of today have every right to worship, peacefully and respectfully at their sacred places.

That said, I think guardianship of those places belongs with the indiginous culture, and they are responsible for insuring fair access to the site, respectful treatment of all worshippers, and maintaining the integrity of those places and setting appropriate rules. I don’t think either of the other religions should have to beg “permission” to visit their Holy Places any more than the Jews should have had to when it was under the control of others.


Mutual respect, dignity and peaceful conduct all around.

None of this is HARD for decent, moral human beings. The especial Holy Places do NOT actually encroach upon each other. There is no reason for Jews not to have the Temple Mount and the Kotel, the Christians to have the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolarosa, and the Muslims to have Al-Aqsa. They do not actually encroach on each other. (Depending on where Jews decide the Holy of Holies is -- but Jews tend to be somewhat flexible (cough cough) in that way).

There is no actual conflict here. And you have the added advantage that the originating peoples -- the Jewish peoples -- have a theology that encourages worship by ALL of the nations. And a sovereign government which is willing to BEND OVER BACKWARDS to facilitate worship for other people.

This is win, win, win, win. If only the OTHER religions would just let it happen.

I agree

The Holy Land, which is probably the best term for this area, is important to all three that it has been the flashpoint of so much senseless violence as a result of religious ties.

And it really saddens me that Israel is destroying it.

They aren’t, they are good respectful conservators of history, archaeology and religious rights.

 

[Hollie]

Don't quote my post then blabber on about something else.

I don't see You refute anything of what I said.
Palestinian Arabs caused the most loss of property in this conflict.

While at home?

Yes while staring a war against Palestinian Jews and dispossessing them from the oldest communities, stripping them from property.

Palestinian Arabs are responsible for the most loss of property in this conflict.

Going right over your head, I see.

I still don't see any contradiction of my claim.
I think we'll talk about reparations when I return from prayer.

I think it’s only fair that the Islamist colonial project be held accountable for damages as a part of their invasion and dispossession of the Jewish people.

 

[Coyote]

One religion building on another is not exactly new. What I have a problem with in terms of Muslims is when they want to claim it for Islam only, which they can't, but they are a sacred trust for 3 religions now.

What do you do?

1. You acknowledge the originating indigenous, aboriginal culture.
2. You remove yourself as much as possible from everything you have usurped.
3. You give the originating culture the space to honor their religion and worship as they need.
4. You ask permission of them to continue to use your holy spaces with mutual respect and dignity.

I disagree that it should be the one way street you seem to think it should and I think the uniqueness of this situation be recognized. I can’t think of any other situation where three very ancient religions, closely related, have strong ties to the same sacred areas and artifacts. It isn’t like some new found cult decided that the Cambodian Temp,es were part of their sacred landscape. The Holy Land, which is probably the best term for this area, is important to all three that it has been the flashpoint of so much senseless violence as a result of religious ties. However you might feel about the religions themselves, you can’t ignore this.

As a result it needs to be treated as a sacred space and the rights of all three respected, not demeaned by claims of usurption, over events more than a thousand years in the past. The people of today have every right to worship, peacefully and respectfully at their sacred places.

That said, I think guardianship of those places belongs with the indiginous culture, and they are responsible for insuring fair access to the site, respectful treatment of all worshippers, and maintaining the integrity of those places and setting appropriate rules. I don’t think either of the other religions should have to beg “permission” to visit their Holy Places any more than the Jews should have had to when it was under the control of others.


Mutual respect, dignity and peaceful conduct all around.

None of this is HARD for decent, moral human beings. The especial Holy Places do NOT actually encroach upon each other. There is no reason for Jews not to have the Temple Mount and the Kotel, the Christians to have the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolarosa, and the Muslims to have Al-Aqsa. They do not actually encroach on each other. (Depending on where Jews decide the Holy of Holies is -- but Jews tend to be somewhat flexible (cough cough) in that way).

There is no actual conflict here. And you have the added advantage that the originating peoples -- the Jewish peoples -- have a theology that encourages worship by ALL of the nations. And a sovereign government which is willing to BEND OVER BACKWARDS to facilitate worship for other people.

This is win, win, win, win. If only the OTHER religions would just let it happen.

I agree

The Holy Land, which is probably the best term for this area, is important to all three that it has been the flashpoint of so much senseless violence as a result of religious ties.

And it really saddens me that Israel is destroying it.

You are a sad little Islamist. Obviously you are ignorant to the fact that Israel is preserving religious sites. That is quite at odds with the islamic practice of destroying religious sites.

You are wrong there as well. Those sites are still there.

 

[P F Tinmore]

A

One religion building on another is not exactly new. What I have a problem with in terms of Muslims is when they want to claim it for Islam only, which they can't, but they are a sacred trust for 3 religions now.

What do you do?

1. You acknowledge the originating indigenous, aboriginal culture.
2. You remove yourself as much as possible from everything you have usurped.
3. You give the originating culture the space to honor their religion and worship as they need.
4. You ask permission of them to continue to use your holy spaces with mutual respect and dignity.

I disagree that it should be the one way street you seem to think it should and I think the uniqueness of this situation be recognized. I can’t think of any other situation where three very ancient religions, closely related, have strong ties to the same sacred areas and artifacts. It isn’t like some new found cult decided that the Cambodian Temp,es were part of their sacred landscape. The Holy Land, which is probably the best term for this area, is important to all three that it has been the flashpoint of so much senseless violence as a result of religious ties. However you might feel about the religions themselves, you can’t ignore this.

As a result it needs to be treated as a sacred space and the rights of all three respected, not demeaned by claims of usurption, over events more than a thousand years in the past. The people of today have every right to worship, peacefully and respectfully at their sacred places.

That said, I think guardianship of those places belongs with the indiginous culture, and they are responsible for insuring fair access to the site, respectful treatment of all worshippers, and maintaining the integrity of those places and setting appropriate rules. I don’t think either of the other religions should have to beg “permission” to visit their Holy Places any more than the Jews should have had to when it was under the control of others.


Mutual respect, dignity and peaceful conduct all around.

None of this is HARD for decent, moral human beings. The especial Holy Places do NOT actually encroach upon each other. There is no reason for Jews not to have the Temple Mount and the Kotel, the Christians to have the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the Via Dolarosa, and the Muslims to have Al-Aqsa. They do not actually encroach on each other. (Depending on where Jews decide the Holy of Holies is -- but Jews tend to be somewhat flexible (cough cough) in that way).

There is no actual conflict here. And you have the added advantage that the originating peoples -- the Jewish peoples -- have a theology that encourages worship by ALL of the nations. And a sovereign government which is willing to BEND OVER BACKWARDS to facilitate worship for other people.

This is win, win, win, win. If only the OTHER religions would just let it happen.

I agree

The Holy Land, which is probably the best term for this area, is important to all three that it has been the flashpoint of so much senseless violence as a result of religious ties.

And it really saddens me that Israel is destroying it.

They aren’t, they are good respectful conservators of history, archaeology and religious rights.

With bulldozed buildings, ugly walls, cattle pens, and dispossessing Christians?